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I'm fixing to be an outlaw if this crazy law gets traction

Red Robin

Well-known member
No-spank bill on way
By Mike Zapler
MediaNews Sacramento Bureau
Vote: Should California ban spanking of young kids?
SACRAMENTO - The state Legislature is about to weigh in on a question that stirs impassioned debate among moms and dads: Should parents spank their children?

Assemblywoman Sally Lieber, D-Mountain View, wants to outlaw spanking children up to 3 years old. If she succeeds, California would become the first state in the nation to explicitly ban parents from smacking their kids.

Making a swat on the behind a misdemeanor might seem a bit much for some -- and the chances of the idea becoming law appear slim, at best -- but Lieber begs to differ.

``I think it's pretty hard to argue you need to beat a child 3 years old or younger,'' Lieber said. ``Is it OK to whip a 1-year-old or a 6-month-old or a newborn?''

The bill, which is still being drafted, will be written broadly, she added, prohibiting ``any striking of a child, any corporal punishment, smacking, hitting, punching, any of that.'' Lieber said it would be a misdemeanor, punishable by up to a year in jail or a fine up to $1,000, although a legal expert advising her on the proposal said first-time offenders would probably only have to attend parenting classes.

The idea is encountering skepticism even before it's been formally introduced. Beyond the debate among child psychologists -- many of whom believe limited spanking can be effective -- the bill is sure to face questions over how practical it is to enforce and opposition from some legislators who generally oppose what they consider ``nanny government.''

``Where do you stop?'' asked Assemblyman Chuck DeVore, R-Irvine, who said he personally agrees children under 3 shouldn't be spanked but has no desire to make it the law. ``At what point are we going to say we should pass a bill that every parent has to read a minimum of 30 minutes every night to their child? This is right along those same lines.''

One San Jose mother of three said she believes spanking is a poor way to discipline children, but she also wondered whether a legislative ban makes sense. Should a mom who slaps her misbehaving kid in the supermarket, she asked, be liable for a crime?

``If my 6-year-old doesn't put his clothes in the hamper, I'm not going to whack him. He just won't get his clothes washed,'' said Peggy Hertzberg, 38, who teaches parenting classes at the YWCA. ``I think instead of banning spanking, parents need to learn different ways of disciplining and redirecting their children.''

Lieber conceived the idea while chatting with a family friend and legal expert in children's issues worldwide. The friend, Thomas Nazario, said that while banning spanking might seem like a radical step for the United States, more than 10 European countries already do so. Sweden was the first, in 1979.

Nazario said there's no good rationale for hitting a child under 3, so the state should draw a ``bright line'' in the law making it clear.

``Why do we allow parents to hit a little child and not someone their own size?'' asked Nazario, a professor at the University of San Francisco Law School. ``Everyone in the state is protected from physical violence, so where do you draw the line? To take a child and spank his little butt until he starts crying, some people would define that as physical violence.''

It's unclear how a spanking ban would be enforced. Most slapping, after all, happens in the confines of a home, and most children up to age 3 aren't capable of reporting it.

Doctors, social workers and others who believe a child has been abused are required by law to report it to authorities. Nazario said he and Lieber are still debating whether to treat slapping the same way, or simply to encourage those who witness it to report it. But in either case, said Lieber, the law ``would allow people who view a beating to say, `Excuse me, that's against the law.' ''

Experts in child psychology disagree over whether spanking is a legitimate or effective way for parents to discipline their children. Professor Robert Larzelere, who has studied child discipline for 30 years, said his research shows spanking is fine, as long as it's used sparingly and doesn't escalate to abuse.

``If it's used in a limited way,'' the Oklahoma State University professor said, ``it can be more effective than almost any other type of punishment.'' He added that children 18 months old or younger shouldn't be spanked at all, because they can't understand why it's happening.

As for Lieber's proposal, the professor said: ``I think this proposal is not just a step too far, it's a leap too far. At least from a scientific perspective there really isn't any research to support the idea that this would make things better for children.''

But Lieber is optimistic that lawmakers will find her proposal hard to resist. For the record, she does not have children and says she was not slapped as a child. But she does have a cat named Snoop, which her veterinarian told her never to hit.

``And if you never hit a cat,'' Lieber said, ``you should never hit a kid.''

BUT IT'S OK TO ABORT THEM? :mad: IT'S OK TO STICK SOMETHING IN THE BASE OF THEIR SKULL AND SUCK THEIR BRAINS OUT THE DAY BEFORE THEY ARE A NEWBORN
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
One thing you can count on is that if this Law passes there will be parents that spend a year in Jail. When child molesters all over the United States continue to get probation or just a couple months in jail.
 

Steve

Well-known member
when my child was about 1 he had a fascination with outlets...and was constantly trying to put things in them....I even bought covers..he soon learned how to get them off.....I even rewired the panel to be able to shut off all the receptacles..nothing preventive seemed to work...

so one day instead of the usual lecture...I waited until he was about to stick another toy into an outlet.....and smacked his bottom hard.....that worked....

Used sparingly and only with a level head spankings can be effective.....

BTW by the time he was three or four He never received another spanking.....seemed then he was old enough to understand I ment what I said and balanced that with being spanked ,...he listened....
 

Steve

Well-known member
But Lieber is optimistic that lawmakers will find her proposal hard to resist. For the record, she does not have children and says she was not slapped as a child. But she does have a cat named Snoop, which her veterinarian told her never to hit.

``And if you never hit a cat,'' Lieber said, ``you should never hit a kid.''

Her house probably smells like cat pee, and her furniture is all scratched up....
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Steve said:
But Lieber is optimistic that lawmakers will find her proposal hard to resist. For the record, she does not have children and says she was not slapped as a child. But she does have a cat named Snoop, which her veterinarian told her never to hit.

``And if you never hit a cat,'' Lieber said, ``you should never hit a kid.''

Her house probably smells like cat pee, and her furniture is all scratched up....

:lol:

Heard a talk show host talking the other day about his and he was not against Spanking, but he pointed out how he had never needed to spank his kid.

He gave an example of how he went to the Doctor with his son and he told him to do something, the kid did not do it, then told him again and the kid still did not do it. Then he told him if he did not do it in 5 seconds that he was taking away his PlayStation 2 game and the kid did what he was told.

Not spanking does work as the above story showed. But I could only think how sad a kid had to be told three times and then threatened to get him to do it. Maybe if he had spanked that kid when he was a little younger for not minding he would not have had to wait till the 3rd time and a threat.

If I tell my kid to do something I do not accept them waiting till the 3rd time and a 5 second rule. I want it done now!

I hate when I see parents count to 3 or 5 to get kids to do stuff. Teaches kids to push your authority to the very last point they can.
 

Cal

Well-known member
Just have to be creative, if they can't be spanked maybe they can be Hotshotted, it doesn't leave a mark! :eek: :D
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
I remember when Dr. Spocks book on child rearing came out.
That was his thing, don't spank your kids. I was a young mother
at the time and that book was a hot topic. Everyone read it.

Then about 20 years later, when these kids had reached adulthood,
Dr. Spock wrote another book. The title was "Don't Blame Me!"

He started the 'Kid is King' revolution in this country and we
are the worse for it.
 

jigs

Well-known member
we spank when needed, but I like the use of consequences ....

the other day, I was very sick and had done all the cattle chores except the tank needed turned on. my oldest daughter was causing trouble, so I sent her out to feed the youngest kids rabbit. she threw a fit. a big one. I hit the roof, so I grabbed her and her coat put them both outside and told her to do the rabbit and the tank. no supper until both were done.

I watched her play for 30 minutes. then she popped in and said both were done.

I pt on my coat and said if I got out there and it was not done, she would have a list of cleaning jobs, and no food until they were done to my satisfaction. as I grabbed my boots, the door shut behind her.

15 minutes later, I received an apology and she offered to do the dishes for mom. teenage years suck! but firm and reasonable punishment seems to work for me.


I always threaten them that if they do not behave I am gonna beat them like a stray dog.... my mom chewed me out, said if the wrong person heard me say that child protection service will be knocking on my door.
 

IL Rancher

Well-known member
I think I have used that phrase once before too but it was under my breath and more to myself than anyhting..

While I don't think spanking a 3 month old would have any impact whatsoever on the kid I know smaking my son's hand as he constantly reaches towards something he shoudn't be at 9-10 months seems to work.. What is the other solution? pick the kid up an move him across the room for him to go back again. Move the item.. Look, I can't move outlets, but I can put plugs in them that he pulls out..

I don't know where the line is but to say arbitrarily there is no reason to lay a finger on someone under 3 is a little crazy... I understand the reason behind it somewhat, and the reason I don't like spanking the kids (Like and willing to do are two very different things) in that they don't want it escalating any further... I don't know.. I wasn't spanked but once by my folks but somehow I behaved well. Brother had his hide tanned on more than one ocassion and he turned out okay...

There is nothing I hate more than my daughter lieing to me though... I am sure I would have gone just about ballistic if that was my daughte Jigs... At least she made it better.
 

jigs

Well-known member
she is pretty much back to normal. except for the occasional quick turn or something to send a twinge down her side. and at times I think she fakes it to guilt me into doing more house work.
 
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