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I'm so confused, SH

Sandhusker

Well-known member
A few quotes from you that appear to state the Japanese don't know the BSE tests won't find BSE in young cattle;

"Only a handful of USDA blamers could be so incredibly stupid as to actually believe that if the Japanese consumers knew that Creekstone's test would not reveal bse prions in cattle under 24 months of age, they would desire testing anyway"

"You support creating an "ILLUSION" of safety because the Japanese consumers believe "BSE TESTED" means "BSE FREE" and in Creekstone's case, it wouldn't. It would only mean "BSE TESTED" and create the "ILLUSION OF SAFETY"."

"Capitalize on the ignorance of Japanese consumers REGARDING the validity of the Creekstone's BSE tests for $$$ gain that Bullard says is not needed."

I can provide dozens more, but I think we all get the picture. Now, today you state, "Know why? Because Japan is smart enough to know that the bse tests that have been approved will not reveal bse prions in cattle under 24 months of age. THEY KNOW THAT. Yet Sandbag, Conman, and Rod keep insisting that they know what is best for Japan. LOL!""

So to the Japanese know or not? First you say they don't know, that they are victims of deception and "ignorance of Japanese consumers", but now its "THEY KNOW THAT". You want to explain? :shock:

While you're at it, what about the comment about some of us insisting we know what is best for Japan when all along we have simply been saying their wishes should be honored and that we think they know what is best for themselves. You're the one who thinks the USDA needs to save them from themselves.

Do you really have any idea of what anybody, including yourself, has said?
 

Tommy

Well-known member
Sandhusker...I'm so confused, SH

Sandhusker, you will be even more confused if and when he answers your post.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
It's really quite simple little Sandcheska.

The Japanese CONSUMER who "SUPPOSEDLY" wants testing, obviously doesn't know bse prions would not be revealed in younger cattle or they wouldn't request the test.

In contrast, the Japanese GOVERNMENT obviously knows that bse prions would not be revealed in cattle under 24 months of age or they would not have accepted non tested beef from the US.

The Japanese government's move is towards "source verification" to verify age, not towards the deceptive testing that you promote.

Care to refute either statement?

Didn't think so!

Thought you had another live one huh?? ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz!


Tommy, could you run and grab the little ankle biter another glass of water. We'll just make that a "cheerleader" responsibility for the day. I think you qualify.


~SH~
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
OH, I see, SH, the people don't know, but the government does..... OK.... then why was their government asking Veneman for tested beef?
 

rkaiser

Well-known member
From the book of Scotty Chapter 6 ? (darn I forget how they phrase that next part)
The Japanese CONSUMER who "SUPPOSEDLY" wants testing, obviously doesn't know bse prions would not be revealed in younger cattle or they wouldn't request the test.

In contrast, the Japanese GOVERNMENT obviously knows that bse prions would not be revealed in cattle under 24 months of age or they would not have accepted non tested beef from the US.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Go back to defending the packers on other issues Scotty, you're losing more credability on the BSE testing issue by the moment.

Who cares if the Japanese are requesting a test or not. Offer it to them and see if it will help the producers out of the captive cattle market they find themselves in. Or continue to defend the packers who are enjoying this captive market thing handed to them on a platter and prolonged by their challenge to testing.
 

mrj

Well-known member
rkaiser said:
From the book of Scotty Chapter 6 ? (darn I forget how they phrase that next part)
The Japanese CONSUMER who "SUPPOSEDLY" wants testing, obviously doesn't know bse prions would not be revealed in younger cattle or they wouldn't request the test.

In contrast, the Japanese GOVERNMENT obviously knows that bse prions would not be revealed in cattle under 24 months of age or they would not have accepted non tested beef from the US.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Go back to defending the packers on other issues Scotty, you're losing more credability on the BSE testing issue by the moment.

Who cares if the Japanese are requesting a test or not. Offer it to them and see if it will help the producers out of the captive cattle market they find themselves in. Or continue to defend the packers who are enjoying this captive market thing handed to them on a platter and prolonged by their challenge to testing.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Does that last paragraph really make sense to those of you who claim that ONLY the packers benefit from the high prices enjoyed for beef exported to Japan in the past?????

MRJ
 

Econ101

Well-known member
MRJ said:
rkaiser said:
From the book of Scotty Chapter 6 ? (darn I forget how they phrase that next part)
The Japanese CONSUMER who "SUPPOSEDLY" wants testing, obviously doesn't know bse prions would not be revealed in younger cattle or they wouldn't request the test.

In contrast, the Japanese GOVERNMENT obviously knows that bse prions would not be revealed in cattle under 24 months of age or they would not have accepted non tested beef from the US.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Go back to defending the packers on other issues Scotty, you're losing more credability on the BSE testing issue by the moment.

Who cares if the Japanese are requesting a test or not. Offer it to them and see if it will help the producers out of the captive cattle market they find themselves in. Or continue to defend the packers who are enjoying this captive market thing handed to them on a platter and prolonged by their challenge to testing.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Does that last paragraph really make sense to those of you who claim that ONLY the packers benefit from the high prices enjoyed for beef exported to Japan in the past?????

MRJ

MRJ, until the packers are competing for the cattle for that purpose, they will continue to get the lion's share of the higher prices.

In Creekstone's case, they weren't in the good old boys club the packers set up so they were not allowed to test and ship.

Exports always take supplies off the domestic market. If one company is exporting and they can find a way to not allow anyone else to export, they alone will make the extra money off of exports.

This power play had as much to do with not allowing Creekstone to test (innovation for a customer) because the big guys did not want anyone but themselves to have a comparative advantage because of these exports. Cargill and Tyson are both exporting to Japan--but becuase of the policy of the U.S., Creekstone is not. Thus, Cargill and Tyson alone get this comparative advantage through their Canadian subsidiaries.

Because of the difference in policy between the two countries, Tyson and Cargill have an advantage that Creekstone does not. This is an example of why NAFTA is really just a hoax. Without a level playing field, the packers are able to profit comparably but to the detriment of U.S. producers in this case. Tyson and Cargill then push their "solution" of MID as an excuse.

The U.S. is not running international policy in trade and U.S. policy in Agriculture for anyone else but the packers. This is a perfect example.

MRJ, have you read the OIG report yet?

Why haven't the things at GIPSA been corrected? They are still stifling investigations. They are investigating issues that are important, but they are using those investigations as an excuse to not investigate the real economic problems that the PSA was designed for.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
MRJ, "Does that last paragraph really make sense to those of you who claim that ONLY the packers benefit from the high prices enjoyed for beef exported to Japan in the past????? "

Who ever claimed that?

What do you think if SH's latest case of foot-in-mouth disease? Is he still your pet? :lol:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Ankle biter: "OH, I see, SH, the people don't know, but the government does..... OK.... then why was their government asking Veneman for tested beef?"

I don't know that the Japanese government was asking Veneman for tested beef. All you offered for proof of that is a quote that could have easily been taken out of context since Japan never stated anything about testing "OFFICIALLY".

If the Japanese government was asking for tested beef, they obviously recognized the problem with bse testing cattle with tests that would not reveal bse prions in younger cattle OR THEY WOULDN'T HAVE ACCEPTED UNTESTED BEEF, THEY WOULDN'T BE REQUESTING SOURCE VERIFICATION, THEY WOULDN'T BE ACCEPTING UNTESTED BEEF FROM CANADA, AND THEY WOULD STILL BE REQUESTING TESTED BEEF WOULDN'T THEY???

I've never seen anyone spend so much time beating a decayed horse.


Randy the Canadian packer blamer: "Who cares if the Japanese are requesting a test or not. Offer it to them and see if it will help the producers out of the captive cattle market they find themselves in. Or continue to defend the packers who are enjoying this captive market thing handed to them on a platter and prolonged by their challenge to testing."

You don't offer a test TO ANYONE that doesn't do what the test is intended to do. Doing so is deception.

What captive cattle market? LAST REPORT I SAW, PACKERS WERE LOSING MONEY. Oh, but we can't believe that can we Randy Kaiser? That doesn't support our packer blaming bias. Noooooooo! They must be "cooking the books". They must be writing off "PERIODIC" capital expenditures. ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz! Blah, blah, blah!


Conman: "MRJ, until the packers are competing for the cattle for that purpose, they will continue to get the lion's share of the higher prices."

Another unsupported allegation.


Conman: "In Creekstone's case, they weren't in the good old boys club the packers set up so they were not allowed to test and ship."

Creekstone wasn't allowed to test because their test would not reveal bse prions in younger cattle. Creekstone wanted to sell "THE ILLUSION OF SAFETY" and USDA would not allow it just like the FDA doesn't allow private drug companies to sell drugs without FDA approval.


Conman: "Exports always take supplies off the domestic market."

What an idiotic statement!


Conman: "If one company is exporting and they can find a way to not allow anyone else to export, they alone will make the extra money off of exports."

Yet another baseless packer blaming conspiracy theory. The large packers didn't have a damn thing to do with USDA not allowing Creekstone's Japanese consumer deception plan.


Conman: "This power play had as much to do with not allowing Creekstone to test (innovation for a customer) because the big guys did not want anyone but themselves to have a comparative advantage because of these exports. Cargill and Tyson are both exporting to Japan--but becuase of the policy of the U.S., Creekstone is not. Thus, Cargill and Tyson alone get this comparative advantage through their Canadian subsidiaries."

Creekstone was denied their "ILLUSION OF SAFETY" long before Cargill and Tyson's Canadian plants were shipping beef to Japan.


Conman: "Because of the difference in policy between the two countries, Tyson and Cargill have an advantage that Creekstone does not. This is an example of why NAFTA is really just a hoax. Without a level playing field, the packers are able to profit comparably but to the detriment of U.S. producers in this case. Tyson and Cargill then push their "solution" of MID as an excuse."

Creekstone's inability to deceive Japanese consumers doesn't have a damn thing to do with Tyson or Cargill. Tyson and Cargill were never pusing for deceptive testing.

I've never seen such a conspiracy theorist in my life. Doesn't matter what the issue is, you'll find a way to "BWAME DA PACKAH".


~SH~
 

Econ101

Well-known member
~SH~ said:
Ankle biter: "OH, I see, SH, the people don't know, but the government does..... OK.... then why was their government asking Veneman for tested beef?"

I don't know that the Japanese government was asking Veneman for tested beef. All you offered for proof of that is a quote that could have easily been taken out of context since Japan never stated anything about testing "OFFICIALLY".

If the Japanese government was asking for tested beef, they obviously recognized the problem with bse testing cattle with tests that would not reveal bse prions in younger cattle OR THEY WOULDN'T HAVE ACCEPTED UNTESTED BEEF, THEY WOULDN'T BE REQUESTING SOURCE VERIFICATION, THEY WOULDN'T BE ACCEPTING UNTESTED BEEF FROM CANADA, AND THEY WOULD STILL BE REQUESTING TESTED BEEF WOULDN'T THEY???

I've never seen anyone spend so much time beating a decayed horse.


Randy the Canadian packer blamer: "Who cares if the Japanese are requesting a test or not. Offer it to them and see if it will help the producers out of the captive cattle market they find themselves in. Or continue to defend the packers who are enjoying this captive market thing handed to them on a platter and prolonged by their challenge to testing."

You don't offer a test TO ANYONE that doesn't do what the test is intended to do. Doing so is deception.

What captive cattle market? LAST REPORT I SAW, PACKERS WERE LOSING MONEY. Oh, but we can't believe that can we Randy Kaiser? That doesn't support our packer blaming bias. Noooooooo! They must be "cooking the books". They must be writing off "PERIODIC" capital expenditures. ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz! Blah, blah, blah!


Conman: "MRJ, until the packers are competing for the cattle for that purpose, they will continue to get the lion's share of the higher prices."

Another unsupported allegation.


Conman: "In Creekstone's case, they weren't in the good old boys club the packers set up so they were not allowed to test and ship."

Creekstone wasn't allowed to test because their test would not reveal bse prions in younger cattle. Creekstone wanted to sell "THE ILLUSION OF SAFETY" and USDA would not allow it just like the FDA doesn't allow private drug companies to sell drugs without FDA approval.


Conman: "Exports always take supplies off the domestic market."

What an idiotic statement!


Conman: "If one company is exporting and they can find a way to not allow anyone else to export, they alone will make the extra money off of exports."

Yet another baseless packer blaming conspiracy theory. The large packers didn't have a damn thing to do with USDA not allowing Creekstone's Japanese consumer deception plan.


Conman: "This power play had as much to do with not allowing Creekstone to test (innovation for a customer) because the big guys did not want anyone but themselves to have a comparative advantage because of these exports. Cargill and Tyson are both exporting to Japan--but becuase of the policy of the U.S., Creekstone is not. Thus, Cargill and Tyson alone get this comparative advantage through their Canadian subsidiaries."

Creekstone was denied their "ILLUSION OF SAFETY" long before Cargill and Tyson's Canadian plants were shipping beef to Japan.


Conman: "Because of the difference in policy between the two countries, Tyson and Cargill have an advantage that Creekstone does not. This is an example of why NAFTA is really just a hoax. Without a level playing field, the packers are able to profit comparably but to the detriment of U.S. producers in this case. Tyson and Cargill then push their "solution" of MID as an excuse."

Creekstone's inability to deceive Japanese consumers doesn't have a damn thing to do with Tyson or Cargill. Tyson and Cargill were never pusing for deceptive testing.

I've never seen such a conspiracy theorist in my life. Doesn't matter what the issue is, you'll find a way to "BWAME DA PACKAH".


~SH~

I see you have been playing with DW again. I have my own 5 year old to argue with, SH.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
SH, "I don't know that the Japanese government was asking Veneman for tested beef. All you offered for proof of that is a quote that could have easily been taken out of context since Japan never stated anything about testing "OFFICIALLY "

Good grief, SH. You proclaim your only bias is the truth and then play stupid like this? You know dang good and well the Japs were asking Veneman for testing. "Easily taken out of context" my butt. You're up a tree again.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sandbag: "Good grief, SH. You proclaim your only bias is the truth and then play stupid like this? You know dang good and well the Japs were asking Veneman for testing. "Easily taken out of context" my butt. You're up a tree again."

Hahaha! You call that a tree?

If your stupid argument had any merit JAPAN WOULD NOT BE ACCEPTING UNTESTED BEEF. HOW DO YOU ARGUE THAT??????

Japan is accepting untested beef and you are claiming they want tested beef. LOL! How typical of your usual ridiculous arguments.

Poor little Sandcheska!

Talk about beating a decayed horse.



~SH~
 

Econ101

Well-known member
~SH~ said:
Sandbag: "Good grief, SH. You proclaim your only bias is the truth and then play stupid like this? You know dang good and well the Japs were asking Veneman for testing. "Easily taken out of context" my butt. You're up a tree again."

Hahaha! You call that a tree?

If your stupid argument had any merit JAPAN WOULD NOT BE ACCEPTING UNTESTED BEEF. HOW DO YOU ARGUE THAT??????

Japan is accepting untested beef and you are claiming they want tested beef. LOL! How typical of your usual ridiculous arguments.

Poor little Sandcheska!

Talk about beating a decayed horse.



~SH~

Are they accepting untested beef from the U.S. now, SH? Have they in the past 6 months? Have we been paid for any beef since the Japanese bse ban?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sandbag: "How much untested beef did they accept from us last month?"

DIVERSION! That dog didn't hunt the last time you turned him out why would you expect different results this time?

What the hell does that have to do with anything?

The only reason Japan is not taking untested beef now is because we sent them bone in product when the specified bone free product. The fact that we are not shipping beef to Japan currently doesn't have a damn thing to do with testing YOU ILLUSIONIST.

JAPAN ACCEPTED UNTESTED BEEF AFTER YOU CLAIMED THEY WANTED TESTED BEEF!!!

HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT???


Conman, think for yourself for once! Don't just use Sandbag's deceptive question since you can't come up with a deceptive diversionary question of your own.

What a lemming!



~SH~
 

Econ101

Well-known member
~SH~ said:
Sandbag: "How much untested beef did they accept from us last month?"

DIVERSION! That dog didn't hunt the last time you turned him out why would you expect different results this time?

What the hell does that have to do with anything?

The only reason Japan is not taking untested beef now is because we sent them bone in product when the specified bone free product. The fact that we are not shipping beef to Japan currently doesn't have a damn thing to do with testing YOU ILLUSIONIST.

JAPAN ACCEPTED UNTESTED BEEF AFTER YOU CLAIMED THEY WANTED TESTED BEEF!!!

HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT???


Conman, think for yourself for once! Don't just use Sandbag's deceptive question since you can't come up with a deceptive diversionary question of your own.

What a lemming!



~SH~

SH, you will have to show me when I asked for your advice. Until I do, keep your opinion of what I should do to yourself and your pm buddies.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
SH, "DIVERSION! That dog didn't hunt the last time you turned him out why would you expect different results this time? What the hell does that have to do with anything? The only reason Japan is not taking untested beef now is because we sent them bone in product when the specified bone free product. The fact that we are not shipping beef to Japan currently doesn't have a damn thing to do with testing YOU ILLUSIONIST. "

Diversion? Diversion from what? You said the Japs were taking tested beef. I simply asked how much they took from us last month? Now you say they are not taking untested beef. Ironic that a thread that started with a contradiction of yours has created another. ("Japan is accepting untested beef", "The only reason Japan is not taking untested beef ..") :lol: :lol: :lol:

Now back to the original topic before you diverted; Are you still trying to tell us the Japanese government never asked for tested beef? Do we need Mike to repost that letter so you can point out the parts that are confusing and can be taken out of context?
 

Mike

Well-known member
The Office of the United States Trade Representative
Home / Document Library / Press Releases / 2004 / April / 04/01/04 | Japan Beef Trade

Veneman-Zoellick Statement on Beef Trade with Japan
04/01/2004


Statement by Agriculture Secretary Ann M. Veneman and U. S. Trade Representative Robert B. Zoellick

April 1, 2004

"The United States is committed to resolving global trade issues based on science. On March 29, the Administration proposed, via a letter to Japanese Agriculture Minister Yoshiyuki Kamei, a U.S./Japan technical consultation on bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) with the World Organization for Animal Health (OIE), the international standard setting body for animal diseases.

"Much has been learned in recent experiences with BSE and scientific consultations are warranted to enable trade in beef and beef products to resume. We have shared with all of our trading partners the results of our extensive investigation into BSE, including our aggressive response to an international panel of experts’ recommendations.

"Japanese Ministry of Agriculture authorities have continued to insist that testing of all animals and removal of specific risk materials are conditions for entry of U.S. beef products in the Japanese market. International experts, as noted in the recent report of the international scientific panel that reviewed the U.S. system, agree there is no scientific basis for 100% testing.

"The most appropriate path at this point is for the scientific experts at the OIE to consult and agree upon measures that are based on science. We have assurances that the OIE would commit to an aggressive timetable to review a commonly accepted definition of BSE and related testing methodologies as well as a common definition of specified risk materials.

"We have submitted our system and measures to scrutiny by international experts and see no reason why Japan should be reluctant to do likewise.

"We are disappointed that the Japanese response to our proposal was conveyed through the press instead of engaging in constructive dialogue about the merits of the proposal. We urge the government of Japan to agree to an OIE consultation and to assure that its measures are consistent with its international commitments as a member of the World Trade Organization (WTO)."

Here's the link just in case you don't believe it:

http://www.ustr.gov/Document_Library/Press_Releases/2004/April/Veneman-Zoellick_Statement_on_Beef_Trade_with_Japan_printer.html
 

PORKER

Well-known member
"Japanese Ministry of Agriculture authorities have continued to insist that testing of all animals and removal of specific risk materials are conditions for entry of U.S. beef products in the Japanese market.

I seem to remember the poster (No TEST NO Sale) on this board saying the same thing.
 
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