• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

Immigration Aligns with Corporations

Mike

Well-known member
This might belong in the "Political" section, but is relevant to the cattle business in that the meatpackers are at the heart and are the driving source of the fight against meaningful immigration reform.

It is a two-edged sword for cattlemen though. When the costs of the packers rises they just deduct those costs from our checks.

Lou Dobbs: President and Senate allied with 'corporate supremacists'

By Lou Dobbs
CNN

Tuesday, June 20, 2006; Posted: 5:24 p.m. EDT (21:24 GMT)

NEW YORK (CNN) -- The U.S. Senate and House of Representatives are set to take action on legislation that could determine the financial and social fate of nearly every American for the next 20 years.

The Senate and House are scheduled to go into conference later this month to reconcile the significant differences between each chamber's so-called comprehensive immigration reform legislation.

If President Bush, the Republican leadership of the Senate and Senate Democrats have their way, 11 million to 20 million illegal aliens will receive amnesty, and at least 60 million new immigrants will be allowed into the country over the next two decades.

In addition, the Senate legislation will cost the United States as much as a half-trillion dollars in administrative, social and health care costs over those two decades, according to estimates by the Heritage Foundation. The Congressional Budget Office has just released its own analysis of the legislation, and it concludes that nothing in the Senate bill will end the overwhelming torrent of illegal immigration.

It is far too early to tell whether the House of Representatives has the political will and courage to stand against the upper chamber of Congress and President Bush. If the House fails in its duty to represent the will of American citizens, our nation will be forever changed.

"The will of the people," Thomas Jefferson said, "is the only legitimate foundation of any government." But if President Bush and the Senate prevail, it will be a clear victory for corporate supremacists, advocacy groups and dominant special interests and a historic defeat for our middle-class working men and women and their families.

Our largest and least represented group of citizens in Washington cannot even be assured that our elected representatives in the House and the Senate will pursue the national interest and secure our borders and ports. And that is a travesty.

What is the will of the people? Ask any member of Congress who has returned from his or her district and there is no doubt their constituents demand border security and an end to illegal immigration.

In the last week, the Lou Dobbs Tonight broadcast commissioned a poll to gauge the will of the people on the issues of illegal immigration and border security. As far as I know, it is the most comprehensive national poll that has been conducted in decades on these issues. Polling company Opinion Research Corporation interviewed 1,031 adult Americans representing every region of the country and all walks of life.

Our exclusive poll was constructed with no other motive than to ascertain how Americans are thinking about every aspect of our illegal immigration and border security crises. The margin of error for the poll is plus or minus 3 percentage points; it is 4.5 percentage points for the half-sample questions.

The first conclusion is not particularly surprising. There isn't great optimism that there will even be a so-called comprehensive reform legislation at all:

How confident are you that Congress and President Bush will pass new laws on immigration and border security that will improve the way the country handles this issue -- very confident, fairly confident, not very confident, or not confident at all?

June 8-11

Very confident 11%

Fairly confident 24%

Not very confident 29%

Not confident at all 33%

No opinion 3%

As to the issue of border security and employer sanctions, a strong majority of Americans favor imposing heavy fines on employers who hire illegal aliens. And they want more Border Patrol, federal law enforcement officers and National Guard troops along our southern border with Mexico:

Would you favor or oppose each of the following proposals:

JUNE 8-11

Favor Oppose No opinion

a. Building a fence along the 2,000-mile border

with Mexico 45% 50% 5%

b. Imposing fines of tens of thousands of dollars

on employers who hire illegal immigrants 60% 36% 4%

c. Sending employers who hire illegal immigrants

to jail 40% 55% 5%

d. Putting more Border Patrol and federal law

enforcement agents on the U.S. border with Mexico 78% 19% 3%

e. Sending National Guard troops to the U.S. border

with Mexico 56% 40% 4%

While 50 percent of those surveyed oppose building a fence along our southern border with Mexico, 45 percent agree, which is just within the margin of error.

While President Bush and a number of members of the Republican and Democratic leadership maintain that the federal government should not be deporting any illegal aliens back to their home countries, almost seven in 10 Americans believe we should:

Do you approve or disapprove of the U.S. government deporting illegal immigrants to the country they came from? (Asked of half the sample)

June 8-11

Approve 67%

Disapprove 25%

No opinion 8%

An overwhelming majority of Americans want illegal immigration decreased, with more than one-third of those surveyed favoring the removal of all illegal aliens from this country:

Would you like to see the number of illegal immigrants currently in this country increased, decreased, or remain the same? (Asked of half the sample)

June 8-11

Increased 2%

Remain the same 26%

Decreased 67%

No opinion 6%

Americans also acknowledge that the United States government is only partly to blame for our illegal immigration and border security crisis. Three-fifths of those surveyed think the Mexican government encourages the immigration of its citizens to this country; only 18 percent said it discourages its citizens. And 83 percent say Mexico has "not done enough" to help stop illegal drugs from coming here. I obviously agree, considering by far the largest amounts of cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine and marijuana enter the United States from Mexico.

Do you think the government of Mexico encourages or discourages illegal immigration of its citizens into the United States?

June 8-11

Encourages 59%

Discourages 18%

No opinion 24%

Do you think the government of Mexico is very responsible, somewhat responsible, not very responsible, or not responsible at all for the amount of illegal drugs currently coming into the United States? (Asked of half the sample)

June 8-11

Very responsible 32%

Somewhat responsible 36%

Not very responsible 14%

Not responsible at all 13%

No opinion 5%

The will of the American people is clear: Secure our borders and ports. Then end illegal immigration. America is now at a historic crossroads, and we're about to learn whether the first three words of our Constitution matter at all to this government.
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
The Mexican government is the illegal immigration problem. The only way to fix it is to seal the border, ship back the illegals here, and force them to fix their own government. Mexico should be a top tourist destination and have a booming economy...what is the problem??? CORRUPT GOVERNMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:
 

Econ101

Well-known member
RobertMac said:
The Mexican government is the illegal immigration problem. The only way to fix it is to seal the border, ship back the illegals here, and force them to fix their own government. Mexico should be a top tourist destination and have a booming economy...what is the problem??? CORRUPT GOVERNMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

Instead of encouraging them to fix their system, we are adopting it!!!

We have sorry political leadership (or non existent) in this country that bends over to the people paying for their re-elections and gaming our system. The govt. has provided no accountability for them when it comes to enforcing the law.
 

Mike

Well-known member
RobertMac said:
The Mexican government is the illegal immigration problem. The only way to fix it is to seal the border, ship back the illegals here, and force them to fix their own government. Mexico should be a top tourist destination and have a booming economy...what is the problem??? CORRUPT GOVERNMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

If the USA would enforce the laws that don't allow hiring them, they wouldn't have jobs and would quit coming. End of problem.
 

feeder

Well-known member
I was told last night by someone who works with illegals that their paperwork looks authentic but it is not. Also they said they could get the false paperwork in this rural town of around 5000 people. The town is only 15 miles from me. I think we need to crack down on those that are supplying these false forms.
 

Mike

Well-known member
feeder said:
I was told last night by someone who works with illegals that their paperwork looks authentic but it is not. Also they said they could get the false paperwork in this rural town of around 5000 people. The town is only 15 miles from me. I think we need to crack down on those that are supplying these false forms.

I understand that these illegals are using forgeries such as SS# etc.

But if the SS#'s are forgeries, they are prolly using someone else's number.

How hard can it be for the Social Security Admin. to look up a number and show that it belongs to someone else?
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Tyson hires an employment agency that is just a shell and "complies" with all the regulations.

They still get the illegal aliens.

When there is no penalty, or if the penalty does not do as much economic damage to the companies that are engaging in such behavior, the problem will remain.

In Tyson's illegal alien case, they just got rid of any incentive anyone would have to testify in order to not have any witnesses against them.

Death is a serious disincentive.

Of course in the London case, the poultry companies achieved the same ends with the 11th circuit. They achieved it only by overturning a jury verdict.

Who is to interpret the the laws against such actions? Is it corporate lawyers and corporate judges?

That is not how it was set up in our country but that is what is happening.

There has been no serious oversight into these cases because the polticians don't want to bite the hands that feed them (corporate lobbyists). We have the best govt. money can buy.

Every one of the politicians on the Judiciary committees in the house and the senate should be held accountable. Instead, they put them on tv talking about illegal aliens where the government's prior failures lead to the current "crisis".

We need to stop governing by crisis and start THINKING !
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Mike said:
feeder said:
I was told last night by someone who works with illegals that their paperwork looks authentic but it is not. Also they said they could get the false paperwork in this rural town of around 5000 people. The town is only 15 miles from me. I think we need to crack down on those that are supplying these false forms.

I understand that these illegals are using forgeries such as SS# etc.

But if the SS#'s are forgeries, they are prolly using someone else's number.

How hard can it be for the Social Security Admin. to look up a number and show that it belongs to someone else?

It can't be too hard. We've discovered SSN# discrepancies just in processing applications to open a checking or savings account.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Mike said:
feeder said:
I was told last night by someone who works with illegals that their paperwork looks authentic but it is not. Also they said they could get the false paperwork in this rural town of around 5000 people. The town is only 15 miles from me. I think we need to crack down on those that are supplying these false forms.

I understand that these illegals are using forgeries such as SS# etc.

But if the SS#'s are forgeries, they are prolly using someone else's number.

How hard can it be for the Social Security Admin. to look up a number and show that it belongs to someone else?

It can't be too hard. We've discovered SSN# discrepancies just in processing applications to open a checking or savings account.

They will set up some sort of verification system with the govt. and then corrupt it too.

There has to be real disincentives to companies who use this labor so they have to face the real home grown labor force with real wages and real working conditions negotiations instead of usurping this with illegal aliens.

There were no disincentives for Tyson foods. Just a headache and some backroom dealing. Nothing they haven't done before. Heck, they are getting real good at it.

I do worry about the people who are caught up in this greed machine. Most illegal aliens are not to blame soley. They are caught up in the same sorry system the rest of us are caught up in.

To me it is funny that Sensenbrenner from the House is the most vocal anti immigrant when his chairmenship of the House Judiciary should have fixed this loophole before it became the crisis it is today.

The lack of leadership by on the presidential side to change the circumstances of trade that could affect Mexico's wealth distribution is also just a cop out by GW. If the job is too hard, just take the country to war and don't deal with it (I supported the war but I think you should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time without choking and tripping).
 

Mike

Well-known member
Excerpt From National Review:


Since 1986, Congress has passed muscular immigration laws and then made sure that they were not enforced. In that year, the Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) was enacted, which traded an illegal-alien amnesty for a first-ever ban on the employment of illegal aliens. The point was to demagnetize the strong pull of good jobs – the main reason illegals come here in the first place.

More than 2.7 million illegals got legalized up front, with promises of tighter enforcement in the future. But the law itself was hobbled such that it became unworkable. Only if employers had a means of verifying the legal status of new hires against Social Security or INS databases could the law succeed – but Congress refused to require the INS to start developing such a system. Instead, employers were expected to do the verifying themselves, by examining a bewildering array of easily forged documents, and then they were threatened with discrimination lawsuits by the Justice Department if they looked too hard. It would be hard to imagine a system more obviously intended to fail.

Eventually, even this handicapped setup was sabotaged. After catching flak for workplace raids, the INS in 1998 decided to try a new approach to enforcing the hiring ban. Instead of raiding individual employers, Operation Vanguard sought to identify illegal workers at all the meatpacking plants in Nebraska through audits of personnel records. The INS then asked to interview those employees who appeared to be unauthorized – and the illegals ran off. The procedure was remarkably successful, and was meant to be repeated every two or three months until the whole industry was weaned from dependence on illegal labor.

Local police were very pleased with the results, but employers and politicians vociferously criticized the very idea of enforcing the immigration law. Nebraska’s governor Mike Johanns organized a task force to oppose the operation; the meat packers and the ranchers hired his predecessor, Ben Nelson, to lobby on their behalf; and, in Washington, Sen. Chuck Hagel made it his mission in life to pressure the Justice Department to stop. The INS took the hint, and all but gave up on enforcing the hiring ban nationwide.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Sounds like the MCOOL legislation.

We need to get the lobbyists that pervert the system out of the capital.

The politicians can't seem to resist them.
 

pointrider

Well-known member
What this really boils down to - as it usually does - is whether or not the U.S. should be a protectionist nation with all the money being spent overseas now going to completely seal our borders from anything or anyone coming in or going out, or if the U.S. should be a nation that chooses to be a global economy nation with multinational corporations that participate in global trade and act within the parameters set up daily by all the other nations. In the real world those parameters include cheap labor in many countries because of human rights violations, etc.

In the real world, other nations will always choose globalization and global trade because of their "advantages" and their agendas. If we choose to become cut off from the rest of the world, then we must be willing to deal with whatever happens out there that does not include us.

I don't believe the majority of the people in this country want to become an isolated, protectionist nation, and therefore their reps vote the same way. This is why, in my opinion, that Congress can't get an immigration bill passed. Too many plusses still in the competitive globalization equation.

We can't have it both ways. How would you vote?
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
pointrider said:
What this really boils down to - as it usually does - is whether or not the U.S. should be a protectionist nation with all the money being spent overseas now going to completely seal our borders from anything or anyone coming in or going out, or if the U.S. should be a nation that chooses to be a global economy nation with multinational corporations that participate in global trade and act within the parameters set up daily by all the other nations. In the real world those parameters include cheap labor in many countries because of human rights violations, etc.

In the real world, other nations will always choose globalization and global trade because of their "advantages" and their agendas. If we choose to become cut off from the rest of the world, then we must be willing to deal with whatever happens out there that does not include us.

I don't believe the majority of the people in this country want to become an isolated, protectionist nation, and therefore their reps vote the same way. This is why, in my opinion, that Congress can't get an immigration bill passed. Too many plusses still in the competitive globalization equation.

We can't have it both ways. How would you vote?

No, pointrider, we are, first and foremost, a country that is governed by the rule of law...OUR LAWS! Our laws should never be ignored for economic reasons or change for the sake of parameters set up daily by all the other nations. It is not a choice of the extreme positions of an isolated, protectionist nation or nations without borders. The first job of the Federal Government is protection of the nation which means secure borders. If you want to come into our country or do business here, obey our laws.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Canada has it both ways. I have pointed that out on a number of instances.

It is never all or nothing when it comes to trade, pointrider. The only true "free trade" is that between the states in the United States or provinces or territories inside individual countries where all the laws are relatively uniform (think interstate commerce).

The EU is still dumping Ag. commodities, China is still not enforcing intellectual rights, and Russia is still using its energy as a bargaining chip with its former sattelites.

The argument of the inevitability of globalization is just an argument that multinationals make when it is in their best interest.

It is in our best interest to trade as it is with most of the world, but there does have to be attention paid to the details instead of just the inevitability argument.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Econ101 said:
, and Russia is still using its energy as a bargaining chip with its former sattelites.
.

I read a couple articles in some Law Enforcement publications the other day about Russia...Probably the best example of free enterprise run amuck...They got thrown into a free enterprise system with little experience and no rules to govern it- and it is now almost completely run by the black market and Russian mafia- which has made some huge inrodes into the US corporate world.....They are pouring billions into Mexico buying up control...
 

Latest posts

Top