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Immigration, Cactus, Swift

Econ101

Well-known member
Cactus' thorny problem

Action changes the face of Panhandle town



By Sylvia Moreno

The Washington Post

via Amarillo Globe News

02/11/2007



CACTUS, TEXAS - The streets of this small, isolated city in the Texas Panhandle are virtually empty nowadays, and "For Rent" signs decorate dilapidated trailers and shabby 1940s-era military barracks that just weeks ago were full of tenants.



Sales of tortillas and other staples are down. Money wire transactions to Central America have mostly dried up. The "Guatemalas," as local residents call them, are almost all gone, and so are a significant number of Mexican nationals. An estimated 12 to 18 children are now living with only one parent since the other was arrested in a massive immigration raid at the biggest employer in town.



On Dec. 12, hundreds of Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents clad in riot gear and armed with assault rifles descended on the Swift & Co. meatpacking plant in a coordinated raid of six of the company's facilities nationwide. The operation was the government's largest single work-site enforcement operation ever.



The plant in little Cactus - a town better known in the state of Chihuahua, Mexico, and in the department of Quichi, Guatemala, where workers came from, than in Texas - was the largest one raided.



Almost a quarter of the 1,282 suspected illegal immigrants arrested in the raids were removed from the Cactus plant.



That an obscure town 600 miles north of the border and in the middle of High Plains country once owned by Anglo ranchers and farmers was a haven for illegal Mexican and Central American immigrants was no surprise to anyone here. The draw to Cactus has existed since American Beef Packers opened the meat-processing plant in 1974. Swift's predecessor company bought the plant in 1975, and it became known as Swift & Co.'s Cactus Beef Plant in 2002.



Although opened with local hires, Vietnamese and Laotian refugees became the dominant work force by the late-1970s. By the mid-'80s the workforce was overwhelmingly Mexican immigrants, and by 2000 the Guatemalans, speaking the Mayan language of Quichi, had started to arrive.



Before the Dec. 12 raid, Swift employed 3,050 workers in Cactus at a starting wage of $11.50 an hour to slaughter, process and package several thousand head of cattle daily.



Work inside the plant is hard, dirty, stinky and dangerous, and it is where Cactus' biggest business owner and mayor, Luis Aguilar, and Cactus' largest landlord, Thanh Nguyen, got their starts in the United States.



Aguilar, a native of Chihuahua, began working at the plant in 1976 using false identity papers, he admits. In 1986, he was able to legalize his status in the United States, along with 2.7 million illegal workers, under the amnesty program authorized by the federal Immigration Reform and Control Act.



Previously criticized by some local officials who thought he aided and even encouraged illegal immigrants to settle in Cactus, Aguilar took the raids almost personally. He canceled the annual city Christmas party because so many residents, including City Council members, had spouses or other relatives who had been arrested by immigration authorities.



Aguilar subsequently lent one of his buildings to be used as a food and used-clothing pantry for residents whose relatives were caught in the raid.



"These are my people," said Aguilar, 50, who owns the largest house in Cactus, a nearby 575-acre ranch, a laundromat and the town's only full-fledged grocery store. About half of his 26 rental units are empty now.



Nguyen and his family, part of the mass exodus of "boat people" who left Vietnam after the fall of Saigon, arrived as legal refugees in nearby Dumas in 1979 under the sponsorship of a restaurant owner who wanted cheap labor. Within six months, Nguyen and his wife left for the better-paying meatpacking plant in Cactus, said Nguyen's son Phuong, 37, who is also known as Ben.



Except for the Nguyens, Asian immigrants moved out of Cactus, which is now 99.5 percent Hispanic.



Some local officials recently said that 75 percent of the city's estimated 5,000 residents before the raid were illegal immigrants. Aguilar disputes that, saying it was only 15 percent.



To Ben Nguyen, that number is not important. His father usually offered a few weeks of free rent to immigrants until they got a job at the meat plant and their first paycheck and provided thrift store mattresses and clothes, if necessary, Nguyen said.



Now only eight of his father's 60 rental units are occupied. Some were vacated the day of the raid, but the majority were abandoned within weeks, when frightened immigrants moved away.



Since then, vandals have been kicking in the doors of the empty apartments, looking for any items of value that might have been left behind.



"I do believe in punishment for the crime, but this is too much," Ben Nguyen said. "You scare kids; you push people so far away that you destroy the economy of the town. This town is built by immigrants. They were just like me when they come over here. They didn't have anything. They came over here just to work and start their lives."



But authorities charge that these immigrants had false identity documents, enabling them to get driver's licenses and jobs illegally, victimizing U.S. citizens and fueling the fraudulent document industry.



Traffic stops or crime reports became confusing events in Cactus in recent years. Immigrants would offer two names, said former Cactus Police Chief Tim Hurley. The had "el verdadero," as they called it - the true name - and their work name.



Mario Lux, 26, from the town of Canilla in Quichi, said the piece of paper that gave him his work name cost him $1,400 and was obtained for him by a friend in Cactus. With that document, Lux said he got an identification card in nearby New Mexico and then a job at the Swift plant in March 2006, cutting fat and gristle off meat for $11.90 an hour.



He was not working the day of the raid but now will not return for fear of being discovered and arrested. He said that he still owes $3,200 to the smuggling network that got him to Cactus and that he has been unable to send money to his wife and three children back home. He is also three weeks behind in his rent. He and his three roommates pay $120 a week for their small apartment.



"I have no idea how I will pay that now," Lux said as he stood in the food and clothes pantry established in the Cactus town center.



amarillo.com
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Packers have tried to gain comparative advantage through investments into the substitutes of beef (pork and chicken) as well as the hiring of illegal aliens in their processing plants.

In the competition game, comparative advantage is what you need to look for to see who will be the eventual winner.

Tyson had the same illegal alien workforce and the Justice Department either bungled the case or lost it because the puppeteers had them drop it.

Who has the comparative advantage and why does the government pick winners/losers by selective enforcement of the law?

Look where the puppet strings lead. Senator John Cornyn (on the Judiciary Committee with Arlen Specter) didn't get a hundred thousand from the packers for nothing.

Causality or coincidence? With big business funding election campaigns and paying reduced taxes to boot, you be the judge.

After all, 12 men and women are to decide these questions, if it ever gets there.
 

Jason

Well-known member
Yep big advantage to pay an illegal $11.90 an hour when a legal or a born and raised American work for $11.90 an hour.

Then again it is cheaper to pay an illegal $11.90 working in a chicken plant than paying one $11.90 in a beef plant. :roll:
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Jason said:
Yep big advantage to pay an illegal $11.90 an hour when a legal or a born and raised American work for $11.90 an hour.

Then again it is cheaper to pay an illegal $11.90 working in a chicken plant than paying one $11.90 in a beef plant. :roll:

Is that how you see it, Jason?

Why would they hire illegals then? Why would Tyson coyote them up to their plants from Mexico? Why would Swift and the other packers hire them?

You need to think before you reply.
 

Jason

Well-known member
Answer a couple simple questions conman and see if you think.

Do packers have different wage scales for illegals and legals?

Do illegals have documents when they are hired in the US?

Be careful how you answer them, your bias might show through.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Jason said:
Answer a couple simple questions conman and see if you think.

Do packers have different wage scales for illegals and legals?

Do illegals have documents when they are hired in the US?

Be careful how you answer them, your bias might show through.

Jason- Do illegals file Workers Comp Complaints?

Do illegals file sexual harassment or workers rights complaints?

Do illegals join in union organizing ?

Do illegals file an OSHA complaint when equipment/conditions are unsafe?

Do illegals report unsanitary/unhealthy meat handling/butchering practices?

Lots of issues make the illegals much cheaper than the green card or local folks...
The old packing plant we had here had plenty of local labor, until with every truckload of swinging beef they sent south--they started hauling in a load of Mexican, Nicaraguan, Honduran, etc illegals back on every return trip--cutting wages and benefits--until all they had working for them was illegals...They didn't want the locals...

Then they became a huge draining abcess on the community...
 

Mike

Well-known member
Average meatpacker wages in the USA (according to the Dept of Labor) was $17.41 per hour in 1976.

In 2006 those same workers got paid an average of $11.47 per hour.




Put 2+2 together

"In 1990, IBP opened a slaughterhouse in Lexington. A year later, the town, with a
population of roughly seven thousand, had the highest crime rate in the state of
Nebraska. Within a decade, the number of serious crimes doubled; the number of
Medicaid cases nearly doubled; Lexington became a major distribution center for
illegal drugs; gang members appeared in town and committed drive-by shootings; the
majority of Lexington’s white inhabitants moved elsewhere; and the proportion of
Latino inhabitants increased more than tenfold, climbing to over 50 percent. (p. 165)
The academic research on this topic consists primarily of case study analyses that
document a variety of social and economic consequences following the opening of large
meat packing plants perhaps best described as a mixed blessing for host towns. The opening
of a new establishment may increase local demand for animals and feed in the region
(Broadway, 2000). It also provides new jobs to the community. The evidence from these
studies suggests that host communities experience growth in employment and payroll, not
only in manufacturing, but also in retail and services, yet the job growth tends to be
concentrated in low-paying jobs. For example, in Garden City, Kansas, the per capita
income level and average wage in the area rose in the decade following the opening of a
large packing plant, but not as much as in the rest of the state (Broadway, Stull, and Podraza,
1994). A number of social problems have been documented in meat packing towns which are
generally attributed to the plant’s workforce. Impacts include increased crime rates and child
abuse cases, higher housing and rental prices due to shortages, and additional strain on social
services and the health care system. (Broadway, 1990; Broadway, Stull, and Podraza, 1994;
Grey, 1997b). Schools in host communities feel the impacts of the plant through greater
3
numbers of limited-English proficient students and unstable school enrollments that reflect
high turnover rates at the plant (Grey, 1997a)."
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Using the inflation calculator:

http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Rate/InflationCalculator.asp#results

between Jan 1976 and Jan 2006, the inflation rate went up 256.6% That means the real wages went to $4.48 per hour in purchasing terms compared to the $17.41 of 1976.


Family run and small slaughter houses have had to deal with these decreases in the market. Much of the time they have just gone out of business which has lead to less market competition for producer's cattle.

Jason, sometimes I wonder how you even make it. If it weren't for the streak of selfishness and willingness to alter the truth to meet the needs of that big head you carry around, I believe you wouldn't make it in this world.

Sure comes in handy that you were given an inheritance. Allows you to keep going on and on.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Jason said:
Answer a couple simple questions conman and see if you think.

Do packers have different wage scales for illegals and legals?

Do illegals have documents when they are hired in the US?

Be careful how you answer them, your bias might show through.

There are several lawsuits in the works against employers like Swift, and Tyson by legal residents who have been displaced by these illegal immigrants in both wages and positions.

The mom and pop and small business slaughterhouses have had to compete with the giant companies who employ them. Do you know what that does to the family businesses?

Jason to get the right answers, you have to ask the right questions.
 

mwj

Well-known member
Econ101 said:
Jason said:
Answer a couple simple questions conman and see if you think.

Do packers have different wage scales for illegals and legals?

Do illegals have documents when they are hired in the US?

Be careful how you answer them, your bias might show through.

There are several lawsuits in the works against employers like Swift, and Tyson by legal residents who have been displaced by these illegal immigrants in both wages and positions.

The mom and pop and small business slaughterhouses have had to compete with the giant companies who employ them. Do you know what that does to the family businesses?

Jason to get the right answers, you have to ask the right questions.

Are you saying that only large packers hire illegals? You can produce something to back the claims that ''mom and pop'' never hire any cheap illegal help.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
mwj said:
Econ101 said:
Jason said:
Answer a couple simple questions conman and see if you think.

Do packers have different wage scales for illegals and legals?

Do illegals have documents when they are hired in the US?

Be careful how you answer them, your bias might show through.

There are several lawsuits in the works against employers like Swift, and Tyson by legal residents who have been displaced by these illegal immigrants in both wages and positions.

The mom and pop and small business slaughterhouses have had to compete with the giant companies who employ them. Do you know what that does to the family businesses?

Jason to get the right answers, you have to ask the right questions.

Are you saying that only large packers hire illegals? You can produce something to back the claims that ''mom and pop'' never hire any cheap illegal help.

No, I never said that. The position in the family business, because of what competitors do, almost has to be filled by these lower cost people. There is no room for the son/local to be employed.

It is interesting that in the court cases regarding competition, the packers have wanted the courts to allow potentially illegal activity if their competitors are doing it when it comes to the protections for producers under the PSA. This allows a race to the bottom.

It is kind of like a classroom of cheaters. If one is able to cheat, the others want the same right and not get punished. The teachers who are good teachers and want to maintain high standards will give zeros to all those who are copying and those who gave the answers to those who are copying test answers. Our courts have sided with the argument that everyone is doing it to producers so we can't punish (or receive compensation from) anyone. Some judges did not learn the lesson of high standards and ethics before taking their positions of responsibility.
 

Jason

Well-known member
As expected Conman can't even answer a simple question.

Wages adjusted for inflation have fallen in nearly every industry.

I don't buy the $17.41 rate for line workers, maybe they were doing a different job.

If packing plants are so bad, why don't you just import all your beef? After all from the articles you have posted it would be far cheaper. :roll:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
mwj said:
Econ101 said:
Jason said:
Answer a couple simple questions conman and see if you think.

Do packers have different wage scales for illegals and legals?

Do illegals have documents when they are hired in the US?

Be careful how you answer them, your bias might show through.

There are several lawsuits in the works against employers like Swift, and Tyson by legal residents who have been displaced by these illegal immigrants in both wages and positions.

The mom and pop and small business slaughterhouses have had to compete with the giant companies who employ them. Do you know what that does to the family businesses?

Jason to get the right answers, you have to ask the right questions.

Are you saying that only large packers hire illegals? You can produce something to back the claims that ''mom and pop'' never hire any cheap illegal help.

A lot of the fine folks I know that run their own operations would rather go broke than do something illegal...And hiring illegal immigrants is against the law........

Hell of a shape our countries in mwj- when folks like you, not only condone but seem to promote that its plumb fine for people to be breaking the law so they can compete with the rest of the crooks...You must be a modern day business school graduate- because I think that is the first class taught anymore, Business 001--- "How to cheat, steal, lie, bribe, and use loopholes and attorneys to bend and break the law as long as you don't get caught, in order to make a fast buck"....

No wonder many folks believe our kids are losing their ethics and morals...They're just doing what their politician and big business role models are showing them.......

Hiring illegal immigrants is illegal and should not be condoned by anyone....
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Jason said:
As expected Conman can't even answer a simple question.

Wages adjusted for inflation have fallen in nearly every industry.

I don't buy the $17.41 rate for line workers, maybe they were doing a different job.

If packing plants are so bad, why don't you just import all your beef? After all from the articles you have posted it would be far cheaper. :roll:

Jason, as you have found out before, I don't respect you enough to answer every question you ask.

No one cares what you buy or don't buy. You have an opinion and that is about it. If you don't care about actual figures and want to make up stuff in your own head that you believe, that is your business. It is one of the reasons I don't respect what you have to say or answer your questions.

As for packing plants and asking why not import all our beef---It is another imbecile question that you pose. One of the reasons your questions are not ones I care to waste my time with.

Jason: "After all from the articles you have posted it would be far cheaper"

Another conclusion that you have tried to make for me that can only be made up by you. I told you before, you don't have the ability to understand basic sentences and what they mean so why go into the psychic business? Have you duped anyone out of money there or do you just want to continue to show you have little understanding?
 

Jason

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
A lot of the fine folks I know that run their own operations would rather go broke than do something illegal...And hiring illegal immigrants is against the law........

Hell of a shape our countries in mwj- when folks like you, not only condone but seem to promote that its plumb fine for people to be breaking the law so they can compete with the rest of the crooks...You must be a modern day business school graduate- because I think that is the first class taught anymore, Business 001--- "How to cheat, steal, lie, bribe, and use loopholes and attorneys to bend and break the law as long as you don't get caught, in order to make a fast buck"....

No wonder many folks believe our kids are losing their ethics and morals...They're just doing what their politician and big business role models are showing them.......

Hiring illegal immigrants is illegal and should not be condoned by anyone....

OT I agree that many people try to follow the law. I do. I am sure mwj does. I don't see how stating a fact is condoning something.

If you needed a hand, and along comes a Mexican looking fellow that seems very nice and has experience in what you need done, are you going to just turn him away because of his looks?

If you do you have just admitted being a racist.

If you ask for his documents and he presents you with ID a social security number etc. and you hire him in good faith, have you broken the law?

If it turns out he is illegal you have. How could you know?

Now if the man was an illegal, where did he get his documents from? If the biggest thing that happens to him is a free trip home, big deal to him.

The lawyer or "immigration broker" that sold the false documents should bear the greatest culpability. Why don't we hear about the crack down on crooked lawyers?

Too many Americans say they are against illegals but hire them when they think it is money in their pockets.
 

Texan

Well-known member
If we really wanted to get serious about stopping illegal immigration, we'd put Bo Pilgrim and John Tyson in jail. That would stop the flow of workers across the border faster and cheaper than any fines or fences. Anything other than jail time for those at the top is just pissing in the wind.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Jason said:
Oldtimer said:
A lot of the fine folks I know that run their own operations would rather go broke than do something illegal...And hiring illegal immigrants is against the law........

Hell of a shape our countries in mwj- when folks like you, not only condone but seem to promote that its plumb fine for people to be breaking the law so they can compete with the rest of the crooks...You must be a modern day business school graduate- because I think that is the first class taught anymore, Business 001--- "How to cheat, steal, lie, bribe, and use loopholes and attorneys to bend and break the law as long as you don't get caught, in order to make a fast buck"....

No wonder many folks believe our kids are losing their ethics and morals...They're just doing what their politician and big business role models are showing them.......

Hiring illegal immigrants is illegal and should not be condoned by anyone....

OT I agree that many people try to follow the law. I do. I am sure mwj does. I don't see how stating a fact is condoning something.

If you needed a hand, and along comes a Mexican looking fellow that seems very nice and has experience in what you need done, are you going to just turn him away because of his looks?

If you do you have just admitted being a racist.

I have hired Mexicans, but knew they were legal as I knew their life history....

If you ask for his documents and he presents you with ID a social security number etc. and you hire him in good faith, have you broken the law?

Yes it should be-- Just the same as if a 13 year old girl tells you she is 18 you can still be charged with statutory rape-- same if you sell booze or cigarettes to a minor that presents a fake ID- you can still be charged...

If it turns out he is illegal you have. How could you know?

There are some cases you may not-- and that will be the danger of doing business with Mexican/hispanics...Hopefully the government could come up with an adequate system to double check for the benefit of the honest hispanics/immigrants in the country- but right now its a cross they have to bear and a risk the employer has to decide if its worth it....But when you hire someone that can't speak English and can't even answer your questions-- I don't feel for you...Or some of these companies (Packers included) that flat know they are hiring illegals- they pay people to bring them in- or haul them in themselves...They have recruitment plans south of the border...I feel no sympathy for these...

Now if the man was an illegal, where did he get his documents from? If the biggest thing that happens to him is a free trip home, big deal to him.

The lawyer or "immigration broker" that sold the false documents should bear the greatest culpability. Why don't we hear about the crack down on crooked lawyers?

I agree- those who are illegally in the country should be treated as criminals- not coddled as they are now-- and if caught with fake documentation or more than once in the country then they should be imprisoned for violating the law- be as cheap as the welfare we put out for them now... And we should be working much harder to get these folks and attorneys that furnish false documents-lock them up rather than a slap on the hand--- but its kind of a sad feature of our current government and administration- they seem to want to do nothing about enforcing the law if it involves someone with money or big business involved-- like illegal workers, gipsa, anti trust laws, etc....

Too many Americans say they are against illegals but hire them when they think it is money in their pockets.

I really believe or want to believe that most of the folks in my area are very honest and in the years I was involved in LE had little problems with anyone hiring illegals except the Slaughter Houses...And on top of it the Packer was crooked enough that he got small business grants/loans to set up and open on the contention he was going to hire Indians on the neighboring reservation-- which he did for a short while until he got his supply of illegals lined out-- then dropped wages and ran the Indians and the locals off... Pure greed and dishonesty....
 

mwj

Well-known member
OT I guess the crooked butcher that was selling that dangerous Canadian beef must not have been from your area. I even heard that an ex leo was helping him keep the fact under wraps :shock: You had better look at these locals a little closer they may not be what they seem :wink:
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Texan said:
If we really wanted to get serious about stopping illegal immigration, we'd put Bo Pilgrim and John Tyson in jail. That would stop the flow of workers across the border faster and cheaper than any fines or fences. Anything other than jail time for those at the top is just pissing in the wind.

The big whigs are so insulated from the reach of the law that it isn't funny anymore.

Tyson has something like 70 felonies, I think, and they are still allowed to use political donations to get what they want from politicians.

When a regular fellow has a felony, he can't even vote anymore.

We have sold our country to the corporations who get away with murder and have one they have to answer to. Clinton pardoning Archie Shaffer from Tyson who "bribed" the Sec. of Agricultre was a shame to the nation.

The fact that Tyson lobbyists are still allowed on the Hill is an embarrassment of our current politicians.
 
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