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In case you missed it

Disagreeable

Well-known member
Last night retired CIA Officer Tyler Drumheller was on 60 Minutes.

He said that most folks in the intelligence community didn't think there was anything to the Niger-uranium story.

He said that the Bush Administration was excited when the CIA turned Naji Sabri, Iraq's Foreign Minister, not long before the war broke out. Drumheller was in charge of that operation. But when Sabri admitted that Saddam didn't have any active programs, they lost interest.

Now Robert Joseph, the State Department's top arms control guy, is telling us that Iran has almost passed the point of no return on their nuclear program.

Robert Joseph was very much involved in getting the Niger-uranium story in Bush's State of the Union Speech. Why should we believe him about Iran now? I'm not sure there's anyone in this Administration that can be trusted to tell the truth.
 

BBJ

Well-known member
Someone said the other day that you were slipping dis, but I think they were wrong. I don't think you've ever had a grip on reality. You go after President Bush every time he says or does something just like so many of the modern day demo-crats.

You questioned my credibility the other day but yet you reference stories from proven liberal sources such as CBS and 60 minutes.
Well........... here you go. :wink:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/01/10/national/main665727.shtml

(CBS) Four CBS News employees, including three executives, have been ousted for their role in preparing and reporting a disputed story about President Bush’s National Guard service.

The action was prompted by the report of an independent panel that concluded that CBS News failed to follow basic journalistic principles in the preparation and reporting of the piece. The panel also said CBS News had compounded that failure with a “rigid and blind” defense of the 60 Minutes Wednesday report.

Asked to resign were Senior Vice President Betsy West, who supervised CBS News primetime programs; 60 Minutes Wednesday Executive Producer Josh Howard; and Howard’s deputy, Senior Broadcast Producer Mary Murphy. The producer of the piece, Mary Mapes, was terminated.

“We deeply regret the disservice this flawed 60 Minutes Wednesday report did to the American public, which has a right to count on CBS News for fairness and accuracy,” said CBS Chairman Leslie Moonves.

The panel said a "myopic zeal" to be the first news organization to broadcast a groundbreaking story about Mr. Bush’s National Guard service was a key factor in explaining why CBS News had produced a story that was neither fair nor accurate and did not meet the organization’s internal standards.

The report said at least four factors that some observers described as a journalistic “Perfect Storm” had contributed to the decision to broadcast a piece that was seriously flawed.

"The combination of a new 60 Minutes Wednesday management team, great deference given to a highly respected producer and the network’s news anchor, competitive pressures, and a zealous belief in the truth of the segment seem to have led many to disregard some fundamental journalistic principles," the report said.

Reaction to the investigation was mixed. White House spokesman Scott McClellan said the administration appreciated CBS' steps to hold people accountable. Conservative pundit Rush Limbaugh insisted the network "had an axe to grind" with President Bush. Washington Post media critic Howard Kurtz said it would take the network a long time to get over "a high-profile blunder."

The piece was aired during a tight and hotly contested presidential race between Mr. Bush and Democratic challenger Sen. John Kerry. The timing of the story prompted charges of political bias against CBS News.

If you don't think CBS is biased why would they refer to our President as Mr. Bush and then to john kerry as Democratic challenger Sen. John Kerry?

While the panel found that some actions taken by CBS News encouraged such suspicions, “the Panel cannot conclude that a political agenda at 60 Minutes Wednesday drove either the timing of the airing of the segment or its content.”

The story, which aired last Sept. 8, relied on four documents allegedly written by one of Mr. Bush's Texas Air National Guard commanders in the early 1970s, Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, who is now dead. Questions about the authenticity of the documents were raised almost immediately.

Some critics said the documents were most probably forgeries prepared on a modern word processor. Other critics questioned whether Killian would have - or could have - written them.

The documents suggested that Mr. Bush disobeyed an order to appear for a physical exam, and that friends of the Bush family tried to “sugar coat” his Guard service.

After a stubborn 12-day defense of the story, CBS News conceded that it could not confirm the authenticity of the documents and asked former Attorney General Dick Thornburgh and former Associated Press President Louis Boccardi to conduct an independent investigation into the matter.

Their findings were contained in a 224-page report made public on Monday. While the panel said it was not prepared to brand the Killian documents as an outright forgery, it raised serious questions about their authenticity and the way CBS News handled them.

The panel identified 10 serious defects in the preparation and reporting of the story that included failure to obtain clear authentication of the documents or to investigate the controversial background of the source of the purported documents, retired Texas National Guard Lt. Col. Bill Burkett.

The producer of the piece, Mary Mapes, was also faulted for calling Joe Lockhart, a senior official in the John Kerry campaign, prior to the airing of the piece, and offering to put Burkett in touch with him. The panel called Mapes’ action a “clear conflict of interest that created the appearance of political bias.”

Mapes said Monday she was "terribly disappointed" by the report's conclusions. She said she believed the story was corroborated by others and consistent with previously known records, and that the panel was quick to condemn her based on statements from people who said different things to her.

Mapes accused CBS President Moonves of making her a "scapegoat" and said his actions were "motivated by corporate and political considerations -- ratings rather than journalism."

The panel noted that the Guard segment was rushed on the air only three days after 60 Minutes Wednesday had obtained some of the documents from Burkett and that preparation of the piece was supervised by a new management team of executive producer Josh Howard and senior broadcast producer Mary Murphy.

A key factor in the decision to broadcast the piece was a telephone conversation between Mapes and Maj. Gen. Bobby Hodges, Killian’s commanding officer during the period in question. Mapes told the panel Hodges confirmed the content of the four documents after she read them to him over the phone.

Hodges, however, denied doing so. He also told the panel he had given Mapes information that should have raised warning flags about the documents, including his belief that Killian had never ordered anyone, including Mr. Bush, to take a physical.

Hodges said that when he finally saw the documents after the Sept. 8 broadcast, he concluded they were bogus and told Rather and Mapes of his opinion on Sept. 10.

“This alleged confirmation by Major General Hodges started to march 60 Minutes Wednesday into dangerous and ultimately unsustainable territory: the notion that since the content of the documents was felt to be true, demonstrating the authenticity of the documents became less important.”

Mapes’ telephone conversation with Hodges was part of a vetting process that the panel concluded was wholly inadequate, largely because it had to be done so quickly. The key executives vetting the piece were West, Howard, and Murphy.

After rushing the piece to air, the panel said, CBS News compounded the error by blindly defending the story. In doing so, the news organization missed opportunities to set the record straight.

“The panel finds that once serious questions were raised, the defense of the segment became more rigid and emphatic, and that virtually no attempt was made to determine whether the questions raised had merit,” the report concluded.

The panel believes a turning point came on Sept. 10, when CBS News President Andrew Heyward ordered West to review the opinions of document examiners who had seen the disputed documents and the confidential sources supporting the story.

But no such investigation was undertaken at that time.

“Had this directive been followed promptly, the panel does not believe that 60 Minutes Wednesday would have publicly defended the segment for another 10 days,” the report said.

The panel made a number of recommendations for changes, including:


Appoint a senior Standards and Practices Executive, reporting directly to the President of CBS News, who would review all investigative reporting, use of confidential sources and authentication of documents. Personnel should feel comfortable going to this person confidentially and without fear of reprisal, with questions or concerns about particular reports.


Foster an atmosphere in which competitive pressure is not allowed to prompt airing of reports before all investigation and vetting is done.

Allow senior management to know the names of confidential sources as well as all relevant background about the person needed to make news judgments.


Appoint a separate team, led by someone not involved in the original reporting, to look into any news report that is challenged.

In a memo to CBS News staff sent Monday afternoon, Heyward said it was a "difficult and important" day for CBS News.

"It is an important day because it represents a unique opportunity for all of us at CBS News to learn from the mistakes surrounding the flawed 60 Minutes Wednesday segment and reaffirm our commitment to the American public to practice journalism of the highest standard,'' Heyward said.

CBS News anchor Dan Rather announced in November that he is stepping down as anchor of The CBS Evening News in March, on the 24th anniversary of his first broadcast as anchor. Rather will remain with CBS News as a correspondent for 60 Minutes Sunday and 60 Minutes Wednesday.

Boy dis you really stepped in it this time. Maybe you are losing your touch a bit, because this one was just toooooo easy. Bad Post dis :wink: [/i]
 

jigs

Well-known member
Dis, did you go to jr high with Pres. Bush? the way you hound him on every topic I think he must have made fun of your pimples, stole your girlfriend, or in some way humilliated you in Jr. High......you just act like a cry baby kid trying to get even.
 

Frankk

Well-known member
I cann't recall anyone coming forward saying they remember Bush being on base in Alabama. I know there was paper work that said he was. Refresh my memory.
 

Cal

Well-known member
Frankk said:
I cann't recall anyone coming forward saying they remember Bush being on base in Alabama. I know there was paper work that said he was. Refresh my memory.
That's odd, I seem to remember at least one piece to the contrary posted on Ranchers.net way before this forum changed formats.
 

Mike

Well-known member
Frankk said:
I cann't recall anyone coming forward saying they remember Bush being on base in Alabama. I know there was paper work that said he was. Refresh my memory.

My place is less than 4 miles from the Guard base at Dannelly Field here in Montgomery. I have a good friend and neighbor who was a Colonel there at the time Bush was and has several pictures on his wall of the groups of trainees. Bush is in 3 of the pictures I know for fact. My friend does remember him being there but just vaguely. Lot's of guys came and went back then.

Of course, Bush might have just showed up for picture day too. :wink:
 

BBJ

Well-known member
:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: I'll tell you what I find odd, I posted a response to dis at 11:17am, and I noticed in another that dis posted a response to something at 7:53 pm, so she obviously read my response but to this point has failed to come up with anything.

Maybe I should post it all again just incase you missed it? :lol: :wink:


Just another case of dis not facing up to the truth and once again dis is on the run from this one like so many others. :p

Well I guess all I can do is wait.......................... :roll:
 

BBJ

Well-known member
Well so much for waiting on dis. I just noticed he/she/it just went through another round of posting but again neglected to respond to the truth.

Hey dis how bout it? I know it really doesn't amout to much but I feel like I discredited her slam on President Bush and his Administration and would like to see how it gets spun. :wink:

Oh well I'll drop it.
 

Disagreeable

Well-known member
BBJ said:
Hey dis how bout it? I know it really doesn't amout to much but I feel like I discredited her slam on President Bush and his Administration and would like to see how it gets spun. :wink:

What "slam" did you discredit? Are you talking about the 60 Minutes interview with the retired CIA officer? If so, you didn't discredit anything. That story has been in all major news media for a couple of weeks. As far as I know, that was his first TV intereview. You might want to consult a dictionary and find the difference between a "slam" and a "fact." The fact, in this case, is that the CIA officer in charge of Middle Eastern Intelligence in the run up to the Iraqi war, says the Bush Administration was only interested in intelligence that supported their case for war. They were not interested in anything that weakned their case for war. And he's not the first to make that claim.
 

BBJ

Well-known member
Disagreeable said:
BBJ said:
Hey dis how bout it? I know it really doesn't amout to much but I feel like I discredited her slam on President Bush and his Administration and would like to see how it gets spun. :wink:

What "slam" did you discredit? Are you talking about the 60 Minutes interview with the retired CIA officer? If so, you didn't discredit anything. That story has been in all major news media for a couple of weeks. As far as I know, that was his first TV intereview. You might want to consult a dictionary and find the difference between a "slam" and a "fact." The fact, in this case, is that the CIA officer in charge of Middle Eastern Intelligence in the run up to the Iraqi war, says the Bush Administration was only interested in intelligence that supported their case for war. They were not interested in anything that weakned their case for war. And he's not the first to make that claim.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Spin :wink:

If it were in so many "major news media" reports then why in the world would you use a source like 60 minutes, given their history with this Administration? Come on dis don't go down hill all at once. I figured you were smart enough not to do that. You only want this to be true, and since this CIA officer is saying what you want to hear it's the gospel right? Get over it, your cut and paste dribble ain't workin' :wink:

As for anyone in this adminstration being trusted to tell the truth reminds me of when clinton lied and that my friend is a fact. It didn't come out of the mouth of a retired CIA officer, HE LIED. :wink: Oh I know but nobody died because of his lie. HYPOCRITICAL? I bet both sides of the political spectrum is guilty of this at some point or another, get a grip dissy.
 

Disagreeable

Well-known member
BBJ said:
If it were in so many "major news media" reports then why in the world would you use a source like 60 minutes, given their history with this Administration? Come on dis don't go down hill all at once. I figured you were smart enough not to do that. You only want this to be true, and since this CIA officer is saying what you want to hear it's the gospel right? Get over it, your cut and paste dribble ain't workin' :wink:

Because I'm not going to let anyone on this board decide what I read or don't. 60 Minutes is one of the most, if not the most, respect news shows on television. They reach millions of people every week. You may not like them, but you're not mainstream. As we watch the polls, I've become mainsteam.

As for anyone in this adminstration being trusted to tell the truth reminds me of when clinton lied and that my friend is a fact. It didn't come out of the mouth of a retired CIA officer, HE LIED. :wink: Oh I know but nobody died because of his lie. HYPOCRITICAL? I bet both sides of the political spectrum is guilty of this at some point or another, get a grip dissy.

It continues to break me up with laughter that the best you can come up with to praise Bush is to compare him to Bill Clinton. That's soooo funny. And if you don't think people dying because Bush lied is important, I feel sorry for you.
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
Hey, Dis, what about the Democrats that are being taken to court for
slashing the tires on vehicles the Republicans were going to use to
take people to the polls in the last election?

Yep, Democrats. And they've got them...

How about it, Dis. You know all, so surely you are aware of this.
Why don't you tell us about it? Like the noble reason this was done? :mad:

After all, it had to be noble since the Dems did it...right?
 

Disagreeable

Well-known member
Faster horses said:
Hey, Dis, what about the Democrats that are being taken to court for
slashing the tires on vehicles the Republicans were going to use to
take people to the polls in the last election?

Yep, Democrats. And they've got them...

How about it, Dis. You know all, so surely you are aware of this.
Why don't you tell us about it? Like the noble reason this was done? :mad:

After all, it had to be noble since the Dems did it...right?

Oh, I'm sure you're making that up. If not, let's see a link. When I see it, I'll post a link to the phone jamming incident where Republicans tied up the phone lines in Maine during the last election. In tying up the Dems' phone lines, they also tied up emergency services across the state. The current Republican National Committee Chairman, Ken Mehlman, was working at the White House and probably involved, even though he denies it. There are a multitude of phone calls between him and the people who had the phones jammed on election day. The facts are coming out. The RNC is paying the legal expenses, over $1 million, of the only Republican, so far, who's been charged. But it's another scandel that is not going to be allowed to just go away this election year. Waiting...
 
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