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Mike

Well-known member
A Birth Certificate Could Doom Obama
America Talks ^ | 06/29/08 | David Zublick



Barack Obama is on fire. The presumptive democratic nominee for president has thoroughly defeated Hillary Clinton in the race for the White House, the two of them have apparently kissed and made up, she's now on the campaign trail hawking his wares, and all is right with the world as far as the Democratic National Committee is concerned. All polls seem to indicate that Obama is beating his republican rival John McCain. McCain himself has indicated that he is the underdog in this race, and has a lot of work to do between now and November. Obama is the oncoming juggernaut that cannot be stopped.

Hold the phone.

Obama may not even be qualified to run for president. And I don't mean because of his lack of experience in any of the areas that the commander-in-chief and the leader of the free world has to deal with. No, I mean he may not meet constitutional requirements to run for the highest office in the land.

You see my friends, there is a little question of his citizenship. And Obama may be covering up the truth.

For several weeks now, the Internet has been abuzz with reports that Obama may not meet the citizenship requirements as laid out in the United States Constitution. Those requirements state the a candidate must be a natural born citizen. Obama's status has come into question. Supposedly, Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961, after it became a state on August 21, 1959. Obama became a citizen at birth under first section of the 14th amendment.

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside...."

Case closed. But wait.

Some questions have arisen about whether there is proof that Obama was really born in Hawaii in 1961, as well as the legal status of his mother at that time, and what is exactly on his original birth certificate...which by the way, may not even exist. When bloggers brought Obama's citizenship into question, the Daily Kos published what purported to be the original State of Hawaii birth certificate. The problem is...the document appears to be a fake, and a poorly executed one at that. Examination of this document indicates it has been modified with Photoshop or other image-editing software, rendering it a forgery.

This could prove very troubling for the Obama campaign for a number of different reasons. If a true certificate of live birth cannot be produced to prove that Obama is a natural born citizen rather than a naturalized citizen, one would have to question whether Obama is qualified under the constitution to run for president.

So why wouldn't the Obama campaign just lay all of this suspicion to rest by producing the real documentation rather than this cheap imitation which doesn't cut muster? Could it be that The father listed on the birth certificate is not Barack Hussein Obama? Or the father's race is listed as something other than African, perhaps Muslim or Arab? Or the mother was no longer at that time an American citizen? Or the child's name is not listed as Barack Hussein Obama II?

Jim Geraghty, reporting on the Campaign Spot blog of the National Review, cited the "rumor" that Obama was born not within the United States, but elsewhere, possibly Kenya.

Geraghty stated that "If Obama were born outside the United States, one could argue that he would not meet the legal definition of natural-born citizen -- because U.S. law at the time of his birth required his natural-born parent (his mother) to have resided in the United States for '10 years, at least [f]ive of which had to be after the age of 16.'"

He then points out that Ann Dunham, Obama's mother, was 18 when Obama was born "so she wouldn't have met the requirement of five years after the age of 16."

If the rumors that Obama is not a natural born U.S. citizen are true, it would stop the campaign in its tracks. So far, no major news organization appears to be following this important story. The blogosphere appears to be the only quadrant of the journalistic universe that is attempting to bring this story to the forefront.

And this most recent development regarding the fake documentation published by the Daily Kos and touted by the Obama campaign as enough evidence to lay these "smear rumors" to rest only adds to the mystery.

Someone had better pick up the ball on this story and run with it.

If Obama is truly eligible under our constitution to run for president, then let's get the proof out there and move on to finding other ways to prevent Obama from being elected. But if this story has legs, let's expose it and stop Obama dead in his tracks.

Now.
 

Mike

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
Mike said:
For several weeks now, the Internet has been abuzz




This statement alone lets everyone know that this is pure crap!

Have you seen the two copies of the birth certificate?

I question the term "African" being used for the race of father. The term used in 1961 was most universally "Negro".

Is "African" a race of people?
 

Goodpasture

Well-known member
Simply divisive crap generated by neocon losers.

The birth certificate issue was settled years ago. Bringing it up is simply another way for bigots to try to scare the simple minded.

Which are you, Mike? A bigot or simple minded?
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Mike said:
kolanuraven said:
Mike said:
For several weeks now, the Internet has been abuzz




This statement alone lets everyone know that this is pure crap!

Have you seen the two copies of the birth certificate? NO and have you?
Are you dumb enough to think that this would have been the ONE thing someone over looked in all the yrs of this man's life??? :roll:


I question the term "African" being used for the race of father. The term used in 1961 was most universally "Negro". Maybe in Alabama....but not in the ' normal' world.


Is "African" a race of people? I shudder to think what you would have written down on the certificate. Have not ever referred to yourself or heard of someone called a North American as opposed to a South American.... European, Russian, etc?????
 

fff

Well-known member
Sniff, sniff. Ah, the sweet scent of desperation from the right. :D
From FactCheck:

Q: Has Obama's birth certificate been disclosed?
Is Barack Obama a "natural-born citizen"? It is hard to believe he could get this far in the electoral process and not have a sufficient answer to this question, I admit, but has his birth certificate been disclosed?

A: Yes. His campaign made a copy public after speculation by conservative bloggers that he might not be a "natural-born citizen."
We asked for and received a copy from the Obama campaign. It is too large to display full size on this page, but you may click on this link to see a copy of the document just as we received it.

It indicates Obama was born at 7:24 p.m. Aug. 4, 1961, in Honolulu. That should be no surprise, as it merely documents what Obama and his biographers have always said. But the document should put to rest groundless speculation raised on some conservative Web sites that Obama might not have been born in the U.S. and therefore might not qualify under the Constitution as a "natural-born citizen" to be president.

The speculation was not based on any evidence. Bloggers raised questions based on the absence of evidence, specifically the lack of a publicly available copy of a birth certificate and the supposed "secrecy" surrounding it. For example, the conservative World Net Daily posted a June 10 article with the headline, "Is Obama's candidacy constitutional?; Secrecy over birth certificate, demand for 'natural-born' citizenship cited." Soon after, some of our readers began asking us the same thing.

The "secrecy" ended when Tommy Vietor at the Obama campaign sent a message to us and other reporters saying, "I know there have been some rumors spreading about Obama’s citizenship, so I wanted to make sure you all had a copy of his birth certificate." A digital image was attached.

Hawaii state law forbids the release of birth or marriage certificates to anyone but the persons named in the documents or their immediate relatives. This copy carries a date stamp of "Jun 6 - 2007" (which has bled through from the reverse side), and is, therefore, probably a copy obtained by Obama himself at that time.

Incidentally, John McCain has been the subject of similar speculation based on the fact that he was born in the Panama Canal Zone. But as we explained in an earlier Ask FactCheck, he's also a U.S. citizen under laws going back to 1790, even though he wasn't born in the country.

-Brooks Jackson

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/has_obamas_birth_certificate_been_disclosed.html

(And, yes, Hawaii became a state in 1959.)
 

Mike

Well-known member
Frankie, we KNOW there is a copy of a birth certificate on the Obama website.

The question is that it appears to be printed with a laser printer, not a typewriter as was the case in 1961.

Among a few other questions..........................

I think there is a question of the "Authenticity" stamp that appears to be missing as would be the case in an authorized, validated copy.

The copy on the website was electronically generated and sent, which the State of Hawaii says could not happen. It would be mailed or picked up in person and would have the stamp.

Some say it is Photoshopped.

These are questions by others, not me. But it has my curiousity up. :lol:

We know that the left is capable of these things. Just ask Dan Rather and his producer. :lol:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
:lol: :lol: :lol: This is getting comical-- earlier during the primary the evangelicals and the Conservatives tried to get McSame off the ballot because he was born in the Panama Canal Zone or something-old Corsi at WorldNet was having kittens about him being foreign born...

Now they try the same tactic with Obama....

Maybe its time to change that law-have a residency time requirement- and we could end up with Ahhhnold as our next President... At least he speaks English better than King George :roll: :wink: :lol: :p
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Maybe Obama ought to let the Republicans select somebody that would be able to verify whether or not the certificate is valid, and then present it for scrutiny. If the certificate is valid, Obama makes the Republicans look like a bunch of idiots and gets some mileage out of the deal.

The way he's handling it now, it looks like he's hiding something.
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Maybe Obama ought to let the Republicans select somebody that would be able to verify whether or not the certificate


WHAT????


Since when did the Rep party become so high and mighty??


That's stupid.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
Sandhusker said:
Maybe Obama ought to let the Republicans select somebody that would be able to verify whether or not the certificate


WHAT????


Since when did the Rep party become so high and mighty??


That's stupid.

That's smart. That takes away the option of them saying, "The judge didn't know what he was talking about", or "The judge was biased" - unless you know the cert. is not valid and you're trying to hide something.
 

fff

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Maybe Obama ought to let the Republicans select somebody that would be able to verify whether or not the certificate is valid, and then present it for scrutiny. If the certificate is valid, Obama makes the Republicans look like a bunch of idiots and gets some mileage out of the deal.

The way he's handling it now, it looks like he's hiding something.

Nobody has to make the Republicans look like a bunch of idiots. They're doing a great job all by themselves. Look at who they've got introducing the amendment against gay marriage bill! Too bad Mark Foley retired. He'd probably have been glad to co-sponsor the bill, too. :roll:

The media all got copies of this birth certificate and know that it's a non-story. Only the die hard, desperates that smell a big loss in November are clinging to this. :D
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
fff said:
Sandhusker said:
Maybe Obama ought to let the Republicans select somebody that would be able to verify whether or not the certificate is valid, and then present it for scrutiny. If the certificate is valid, Obama makes the Republicans look like a bunch of idiots and gets some mileage out of the deal.

The way he's handling it now, it looks like he's hiding something.

Nobody has to make the Republicans look like a bunch of idiots. They're doing a great job all by themselves. Look at who they've got introducing the amendment against gay marriage bill! Too bad Mark Foley retired. He'd probably have been glad to co-sponsor the bill, too. :roll:

The media all got copies of this birth certificate and know that it's a non-story. Only the die hard, desperates that smell a big loss in November are clinging to this. :D

From what I saw, the certificate that the Obama folks presented was declared not valid by a gal from the State of Hawaii. Other than the Llama herd, who "knows" the cert. is genuine?
 

fff

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
fff said:
Sandhusker said:
Maybe Obama ought to let the Republicans select somebody that would be able to verify whether or not the certificate is valid, and then present it for scrutiny. If the certificate is valid, Obama makes the Republicans look like a bunch of idiots and gets some mileage out of the deal.

The way he's handling it now, it looks like he's hiding something.

Nobody has to make the Republicans look like a bunch of idiots. They're doing a great job all by themselves. Look at who they've got introducing the amendment against gay marriage bill! Too bad Mark Foley retired. He'd probably have been glad to co-sponsor the bill, too. :roll:

The media all got copies of this birth certificate and know that it's a non-story. Only the die hard, desperates that smell a big loss in November are clinging to this. :D

From what I saw, the certificate that the Obama folks presented was declared not valid by a gal from the State of Hawaii. Other than the Llama herd, who "knows" the cert. is genuine?

What do you care? You're not going to vote for anyone that might win anyway. The FactCheck site is recognized and respected as a non-partisan site for putting rumors to rest or giving them credibility. You want to hold on to this, go ahead. Put it into an email and send it to your best friends. Like I said, except for the die hard desperates, the rest of the world has moved on.
 

Mike

Well-known member
June 28, 2008
A senior official in the State of Hawaii's Department of Health, Director of Communications Janice Okubo, confirms that the image published and circulated by the Obama campaign as his "birth certificate" lacks the necessary embossed seal and signature. Backing away from a quote attributed to her that the image on the campaign site was "valid," she told the St. Petersburg (Florida) Times in an article published yesterday: "I don't know that it's possible for us to even say beyond a doubt what the image on the site represents."

Barack Obama has claimed in writing to have a valid printed document: In the first chapter of his book Dreams From My Father, describing his origins, he wrote about finding a local Hawaiian newspaper article about his Kenyan father: "I discovered this article, folded away among my birth certificate and old vaccination forms, when I was in high school."

So where is that birth certificate? It got lost? The dog ate it? No matter. Barack Obama or an immediate family member can plunk down $10 ($11.50 if he orders online) and have Hawaii mail a certified document to him within a week or two. But more than two weeks have passed since the Obama campaign adopted the suspect, uncertified image of a purported birth document published by a left-wing blog Daily Kos, and nothing certified and nothing on paper has since has been forthcoming. Nor has there been any official comment about the issue from the campaign. They may cling to the hope -- however audacious -- that the one issue that could disqualify their man constitutionally from gaining the presidency will just go away.

Amy Hollyfield of the St. Petersburg Times, and a reporter for the paper's "Politifact" blog, said that she has been seeking the birth certificate "for months." She was frustrated: "Hawaii birth certificates aren't public record. Only family members can request copies, so when the campaign declined to give us one, we were stalled."

Finally, the campaign released the image (resembling the one at the top of this article). Hollyfield e-mailed it to the Hawaii Department of Health, which maintains such records, to ask if it was real.

"It's a valid Hawaii state birth certificate," spokesman Janice Okubo told us.
Then the firestorm started.

Israel Insider contacted Okubo several days. She could not refer to Obama's specific case, she said, because no one but an authorized family member can do so. But she did confirm that a valid "certification of live birth" would need to have an embossed seal and signature and that it can only be printed and mailed. There is no such thing as an electronic only certification.

In our previous article on this subject we published an example of a certified birth certificate of another Hawaiian citizen, Patricia DeCosta, reproduced below. The stamp and signature are reversed because the embossing is done from the back as per law, as Okubo noted is required by law.


Speaking to National Review Online, Okubo admitted that the Obama image lacked those required features but thought that perhaps the embossing was applied too lightly.

Maybe so, but all the certificates we have seen have the embossed imprint clearly visible, as well as horizontal fold marks.





There's only one way for Obama to show he's a natural born citizen eligible to be President: produce the paper proof.



We got an email yesterday from Bryan Suits who has a radio show on KFI Los Angeles. He writes:

"I have just received my State of Hawaii certified birth certificate for my 1964 debut on the planet earth. It looks....nothing like Obama's. We've scanned it at 72dpi, 300dpi. Nuthin. We can't make the emboss disappear. Also, we can't make THE FOLDS disappear!! How did FightTheSmears do it?

I got curious when I compared his (with the 2007 date bleed) to my old beat-up1986 copy. then I went online on June 13 and ordered the thing. It got here yesterday tri-folded in a state of hawaii envelope. I called the State and asked if I could get an unfolded copy. No dice.


Hollyfield brings up other issues that her readers raised, although she does not address them or explain them [bracketed comments from Israel Insider]:



Where is the embossed seal and the registrar's signature? [Required for validity]

Comparing it to other Hawaii birth certificates, the color shade is different.

Isn't the date stamp bleeding through [in reverse] the back of the document [image] "June [6] 2007?" (Odd since it was supposedly released in June 2008.)

There's no crease from being folded and mailed. [Hawaii requires printing and mailing, according to Okubo. Electronic images are never released, she assured us, nor are they valid.]

It's clearly Photoshopped and a wholesale fraud.


Hollyfield, frustrated by failing to access the required original, being refused by the Obama campaign, and finding only secondary documents from his subsequent career, asks what's "reasonable" and then claims that skeptics about Obama's published birth certificate believe that there's a conspiracy afoot:


Because if this document is forged, then they all are. If this document is forged, a U.S. senator and his presidential campaign have perpetrated a vast, long-term fraud. They have done it with conspiring officials at the Hawaii Department of Health, the Cook County (Ill.) Bureau of Vital Statistics, the Illinois Secretary of State's office, the Attorney Registration & Disciplinary Commission of the Supreme Court of Illinois and many other government agencies.


But Hollyfield is mistaken. There would be no need to invent a conspiracy among officials. All Obama needed to do would be to pass off an uncertified document as being certified. He may have done so unwittingly. Then the rest can follow without any need to conspire with any other official. They just take it on faith that the person is an American citizen.

They don't check about the embossing requirements of the State of the Hawaii. They believe Obama. Why should they doubt him, certainly after he becomes a lawyer and a state senator? The officials believe that the claimed document is authentic, and therefore issue other documents, based on the phony one, buried deep in the documentary chain. Unwitting or not, however, the high stakes for basing one's citizenship on an uncertified birth certificate must be pretty obvious to the campaign now.

Nothing else explains why Obama's campaign refused to release the original paper document, to make this distracting controversy go way. Because Hollyfield is right about one thing:

"If this document is forged, a U.S. senator and his presidential campaign have perpetrated a vast, long-term fraud."

U.S. citizens who have written to Israel Insider or have posted on the Internet are not satisfied. Ordinary people are compelled to produce certified paper birth certificates to get a passport or a driver's license. Why, people are asking, doesn't Obama needed to show one to run for President?

In a follow-up contact by Hollyfield, Janice Okubo backtracked and qualified, pointing to the main issue that Israel Insider and others have brought into focus [our comments in brackets]:


"I guess the big issue that's being raised is the lack of an embossed seal and a signature," Okubo said, pointing out that in Hawaii, both those things are on the back of the document. "Because they scanned the front -- you wouldn't see those things." [But of course, as in the DeCosta sample and others, you can see it clearly.]

Okubo says she got a copy of her own birth certificate last year and it is identical to the Obama one we received. [Well, "identical" cannot be correct. Her name is not Obama, Her certificate number was not blacked out, and her certificate had the required embossed certification. So she can only be saying that the form looked the same, as she said to the National Review Online's Jim Geraghty.]

And about the copy we e-mailed her for verification? "When we looked at that image you guys sent us, our registrar, he thought he could see pieces of the embossed image through it." [Except that she received only what was published on the Internet and circulated by email, and no "pieces of the embossed image" do come through that. We have published the highest resolution available and there is no trace of embossed seal or signature. Readers can see for themselves.]

Still, she acknowledges: "I don't know that it's possible for us "to even say beyond a doubt what the image on the site represents."

And there you have it. Okubo can't "even say beyond a doubt what the image on the site represents" because she is not allowed access to Barack Obama's personal records. State law prohibits it.

Only Barack Obama (or another immediate family member) can authorize the release of the paper birth certificate, and submit it to objective analysis. He refuses to do so, even though it would seem to be in his interest to do so, to silence the skeptics, to show that they are wrong and he is right, to settle once and for all that he is a "natural born citizen" entitled by the US Constitution to be President of the United States. Yet there is only silence and inaction from Obama and his campaign on the subject. The palpably uncertified document remains online, with an explanation that refers only to the date of Hawaiian Statehood and an irrelevant passage from the Constitution.

Admitting her failure to obtain a demonstrably authentic birth document for the candidate, Hollyfield falls back at the end of her latest article into her reliance on the "straw man" of a conspiracy theory.


And there's the rub. It is possible that Obama conspired his way to the precipice [sic] of the world's biggest job, involving a vast network of people and government agencies over decades of lies. Anything's possible.

But step back and look at the overwhelming evidence to the contrary and your sense of what's reasonable has to take over.

There is not one shred of evidence to disprove PolitiFact's conclusion that the candidate's name is Barack Hussein Obama, or to support allegations that the birth certificate he released isn't authentic.

Here Hollyfield is again incorrect. He didn't release a birth certificate, but an image of a purported "certification of live birth" that contains dubious features, lacks a traceable certificate number and -- as the Hawaiian state official Okubo admits -- lacks the stamp and signature required to make it valid. There need be no conspiracy by state or federal officials, just a willingness to believe Obama and accept an image that might look real but might not be.

If Obama is confident that he has a valid paper birth certificate from Hawaii, it is unreasonable for him to be withholding it.

But if he lacks a valid US birth certificate, and therefore cannot prove that he is an American citizen, then he would have good reason to put up a smokescreen and stonewall as long as he can. He would have good reason to try and slide by, as he may have done in the past, by putting up something that would pass as legitimate to the untrained and uninformed, as the one posted by the left-wing Daily Kos blog did, and which much of the media accepted as such, on his say-so.

Because if Obama lacks a valid birth certificate from Hawaii, it would mean that he has been living a lie his whole life: an illegal alien born outside the country who never obtained American citizenship, never became naturalized, and yet has been passing himself off as a citizen to the Illinois Bar, the Illinois Legislature, the US Senate and now, as a candidate for President.

To give Obama the benefit of the doubt: he may not know that he was not born in Hawaii. This may also be part of the family legend his mother communicated to him. As he himself admits in the first chapter of his Dreams, this would not be the only half-truth or outright life his white family told him. The chapter skips over completely anything about the circumstances of his birth or what preceded it: "First the baby arrived, eight pounds, two ounces, with 10 toes and 10 fingers and hungry for food." Subsequent reports have him born in two different hospitals.

Has Obama -- by the "white lie" of claiming to be born in Hawaii (whether the lie came from him or from his mother) and not Kenya or Canada as some have a suggested -- been misrepresenting himself -- wittingly or unwittingly -- to the people of his state and his nation all along? If it is unwitting, it is tragic. If it is witting, it is criminal.

Either way, knowing the potential damage of this revelation, he would have every reason to put up a web site accusing his critics of conducting a smear campaign to avoid answering valid questions about his identity and background. He would have every reason to accuse political opponents of planning a campaign that raises these questions -- as if to ask whether a candidate for US President is in fact a US citizen is an illegitimate question.

To this day, the question about Obama's national origins remains unanswered, because the proof offered to date is inadequate, even according to the responsible Hawaiian state officials.
The question is not whether he's black or white or somewhere in between. The question is not whether he's a Muslim or Christian, a Democrat or a Communist. The question is whether he can document that he was born in Hawaii and thus meet the requirements of the Constitution.

Yes, the question about whether the candidate is a natural born American citizen is legitimate. But is Obama?

There is one loophole that some have raised in the hope that it might yet qualify Obama as natural-born, even if he could not prove he was born in Hawaii: the fact that his mother was US-born. But the US government makes it clear that time was not on his side: "A child born abroad on or after December 24, 1952 and before November 14, 1986 to one U.S. citizen parent and one non-citizen parent can acquire U.S. citizenship at birth if the U.S. citizen parent can demonstrate that he or she was physically present in the United States for a minimum of ten years, at least five of which were after the age of fourteen, prior to the birth of the child." Because Barack's mother bore him at the age of 18, he still doesn't qualify natural born citizen if he can't prove he was born in Hawaii with a certified birth certificate. (A subsequent law reduced the five years to two, but only for children born after 1986, and made provisional retroactive exceptions favoring parents serving in the military or for international organization. Neither applies to Obama).

The bottom line is this: If Obama can't prove he has a certified Hawaiian birth certificate, he's not a natural born American. If he's not a natural born American, he can't be president. That's the law of the land.

This is a matter of US national security. Because there are people in this world who know the truth and can prove it. They would be able to hold that knowledge and proof over his head to make him do their bidding, or else expose him as a fraud, liar and, yes, an illegal alien. That is not a risk that it is reasonable for the American people to take.

Beyond the vulnerability to blackmail, there is a more fundamental question that must be asked if Obama is not forthcoming in producing the requisite documentation of his citizenship: does the American people really want to elect a man who would conceal his past and identity? Does it want to elect a man who would withhold the full truth and stonewall legitimate questions in his pursuit of the presidency, all the while claiming to be a victim and accusing others of fraud?

There's only one way for Obama to show he's a natural born citizen eligible to be President: produce the paper proof.

Whether from popular pressure or a legal challenge to his credentials, it is essential that Obama be forced to release for objective analysis the birth certificate he claimed in own book to possess.

Each American, at watershed moments in his or her life -- to get a driver's license, a marriage certificate, a passport -- must produce a paper birth certificate for official inspection and analysis. Now it's Obama's turn.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
My son just made the local 10 year old Little League All-Star team. I had to provide an ORIGINAL birth certificate (not a copy) along with 3 other proofs of current residency or he could not be on the team.

Pretty bad when a 10 year old has to show more proof of his birth to play baseball than a man who will possibly be the next President of the United States :shock:
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Goodpasture said:
I doubt your son will have Fox Noise paying folks to prove him wrong.

If Obama is legal, he has nothing to worry about! Rather it is fox news or CBS.

You do remember that CBS is the one caught actually falsifying things like this not Fox?
 

Mrs.Greg

Well-known member
Watching from the outside in....a word of advice,filter through shite. If your truly serious about your next president,quit posting something that obviously isn't true. Look into both McCain and Obamas policies,what they're promicing,where they want to take your country.
I truly don't see how you guys filter through all the crap thats posted about both the people running for your president.The amount of smear campaigns out there is utterly ridiculous.
 
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