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Is a depression our saving grace?

cutterone

Well-known member
Last week I added a post asking the question - “So what is your personal changes and agenda if you were in charge to clean up the mess we are in?” and as I suspected no one jumped in with all the right answers. One could acclaim that everyone is just complaining but not willing to step up and take the monster on or that it isn’t just that easy and no defined step by step plan will immerge. I would say both.
This whole scenario makes me think of the movies we’ve seen where the terrible bad mob takes over the town and all the residents are pissed but no one willing to take them on and keeps waiting for the guy dressed in white to ride in and kill the “demon”.
In my opinion the demon is BIG corp. business. This theory probably has been beat to death but it’s very transparent. It’s the problem by it’s very nature. It’s like a boulder rolling down hill, taking and spewing debris in it’s path. The rock it’s self is not evil but what it creates leaves destruction and as it grows it becomes more powerful and engulfing.
Big corp business has taken control over our politicians and government, trade, the media, and the very organizations that supposedly represent us. It by nature had to – it’s a matter of survival. The mob that took over the town had two choices – take control or leave. It is a parasite that has to feed on others. The problem with BIG, be it government or business, is that it is too difficult to control by the populous.
The truth is that no one candidate for President, no representative to any association and no grumbling and outrage will change it or destroy it. You can throw rocks at all you want and it will laugh. You can trust a spear into it’s side and hurt it but it will just get mad and retaliate. Not until you bring it to it’s knees and cut the head off will we win!
As painful as it will be for many, including me, the only possible solution is a complete depression. Only then will the townspeople and politicians stand up and do what’s right. It will be nasty, painful and there will be collateral damage, but it may be the only way for survival. The irony is it won’t be “the man in the white hat” or the townspeople that will bring it down but the cancer (GREED) that drives all big businesses may devour on itself. As they say – Mother Nature has a way of correcting itself.
 

fff

Well-known member
I disagree that big corporations have taken over everything and that all politicians have sold out. The Bush Administration and the Republican Party have sold us down the river to big business. Yes, there are corrupt Dems and they all take corporate money. But to try to sell the "they're all dirtbags" line is simply not honest. The voters in this country realized that in 2006 and voted the Dems a majority in Congress. With this next election it looks like they'll turn out more obstructionist Republicans and put enough Dems in Congress to take on another Republican president, if necessary.
 

cutterone

Well-known member
I did not say that all politicians are dirtbags and have sold out. I am saying that they are "out gunned" have to fall in line in many cases or be ousted. I'm not even saying that all involved in corp business are evil mongers. The nature of the beast is to survive and it will conquer any foe at what ever cost to be in control.
Can you give me any realistic answer why Microsoft has to take over YaHoo and fight with Google other that to dominate and take total control of the market? What the heck is wrong with each taking their share and leaving the other alone?
 

fff

Well-known member
cutterone said:
Can you give me any realistic answer why Microsoft has to take over YaHoo and fight with Google other that to dominate and take total control of the market? What the heck is wrong with each taking their share and leaving the other alone?

Business always try to grow and they should. But they shouldn't be able to use their size to dominate a market. If you go way back in history, you'll find that the Clinton Justice Department fought Microsoft and actually got some judgments against them. The Bush Administration has ignored those judgments or allowed them to overturned. There have been more media and big business consolidations under this Adminstration that probably in histroy. I would hope that a Democratic administration and Congress will put a stop to it. Maybe not, but we know what we've had with the Republicans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft
 

cutterone

Well-known member
I'm not trying to debate which party is the better - that's like agruing which cattle breed is the best. We would all be better off if we quit beating that drum and start judging cattle and politicians by their merit rather than breed or party.
Even one of the breed associations I belong to just sent me a e-mail wanting me to donate money to the NCBA/PAC to give money for the political race. WHO?? I think that's not their business and I'll donate if I wish to the canidates I feel are worthy. What control do I have to where that money will go? Who do you think is contriving this?
The media is controled with money. Have they been giving you and me a unbiased revew of all the canidates and their platforms? No
Who do you think got the NAFTA agreement going? It wasn't producers or laborers of this country!
Who shipped all the plants to use cheap labor in foriegn countries? Big bet it wasn't the factory laborers that used to have jobs.
Big business does not just want to compete with you - it wants you out!
 

fff

Well-known member
cutterone said:
I'm not trying to debate which party is the better - that's like agruing which cattle breed is the best. We would all be better off if we quit beating that drum and start judging cattle and politicians by their merit rather than breed or party.
Even one of the breed associations I belong to just sent me a e-mail wanting me to donate money to the NCBA/PAC to give money for the political race. WHO?? I think that's not their business and I'll donate if I wish to the canidates I feel are worthy. What control do I have to where that money will go? Who do you think is contriving this?
The media is controled with money. Have they been giving you and me a unbiased revew of all the canidates and their platforms? No
Who do you think got the NAFTA agreement going? It wasn't producers or laborers of this country!
Who shipped all the plants to use cheap labor in foriegn countries? Big bet it wasn't the factory laborers that used to have jobs.
Big business does not just want to compete with you - it wants you out!

You can judge candidates however you want. For the next few years, I'll put a lot of emphasis on party. The Democratic party has always stood for middle class, poor, and working people. The Republicans have always been the party of big business. Now with Bush's proposed cuts in Medicare and attack on Social Security, we can add the elderly to the Dems list. Oh, and don't forget the attacks on Mexicans, legal or not. I think Republicans are going to be paying for the "brown people are dangerous" line for a lot of elections.
 

cutterone

Well-known member
Well I'll say this fff - You've beat your little Democrat drum on every post today! So you are telling me that if we only had Democrats in office that none of this would have happened and that if now we vote them in it will just be wisked away and we will live happily ever after? That big corp business would make us all solvent. No banking and investment problems, no medical health care issues, a cigar for every man and beans in every pot? Big corp business had nothing to do with this?
Get real! As I recall there is a democrat congress right now. Last time I checked they still pass the laws and sign the checks. Several of the canidates (from both parties) running are in this congress. This ball didn't just start rolling in the last 2-3 years - it's been rolling for several and there have been administrations from both parties.
 

woranch

Well-known member
fff said:
I disagree that big corporations have taken over everything and that all politicians have sold out. The Bush Administration and the Republican Party have sold us down the river to big business. Yes, there are corrupt Dems and they all take corporate money. But to try to sell the "they're all dirtbags" line is simply not honest. The voters in this country realized that in 2006 and voted the Dems a majority in Congress. With this next election it looks like they'll turn out more obstructionist Republicans and put enough Dems in Congress to take on another Republican president, if necessary.




Democrat Hillary Clinton has raised more money from lobbyists than any other presidential candidate.



Clinton took in $823,087 from registered lobbyists and members of their firms in 2007 and the second-biggest recipient was McCain, who took in $416,321, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a Washington-based group which tracks political giving. Barack Obama, Clinton's rival for the Democratic nomination received $86,282 from employees of firms that lobby, according to the center.


Even as they pledge to rein in special interests, the leading Democratic candidates are relying on lobbyists to bring in campaign cash by raising money from other donors, a technique known as bundling.

``These bundlers and advisers are central to the financial success of top presidential candidates,'' said Sheila Krumholz, executive director of the Center for Responsive Politics. ``As such, they will essentially carry with them an IOU from the campaign.''
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
Read this month's Readers Digest about politicians taking money for favors. It's real enlightening. Also tells about kids making donations and who took the donations. Seems they can get by the limits when kids make donations. And they do name names...
 

woranch

Well-known member
fff said:
cutterone said:
Can you give me any realistic answer why Microsoft has to take over YaHoo and fight with Google other that to dominate and take total control of the market? What the heck is wrong with each taking their share and leaving the other alone?

Business always try to grow and they should. But they shouldn't be able to use their size to dominate a market. If you go way back in history, you'll find that the Clinton Justice Department fought Microsoft and actually got some judgments against them. The Bush Administration has ignored those judgments or allowed them to overturned. There have been more media and big business consolidations under this Adminstration that probably in histroy. I would hope that a Democratic administration and Congress will put a stop to it. Maybe not, but we know what we've had with the Republicans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft



Looks like Bill let the oil co. merger . Why don't you put some blame on him and his co president?





The return of Big Oil is part of a resurgence of monopolies--from Bill Gates's Microsoft, to the consolidated airlines, to the armaments industry. But the Exxon-Mobil merger could kick off an even more massive consolidation of wealth and power. "We could wake up a year from now and have half as many players in the industry," Matthew Simmons, a Houston investment banker who specializes in oil-company mergers and acquisitions, told The Washington Post.

The Clinton Administration is considerably more complacent about monopolies than was the Administration of Teddy Roosevelt, whose anti-trust crusade climaxed with the dissolution of Standard Oil. Roosevelt praised the breakup of Standard Oil as "one of the most signal triumphs for decency which has been won," and called the oil company's directors "the biggest crooks in the country."

Contrast that with the mealy-mouthed views expressed by Clinton's press secretary, Joe Lockhart, who answered reporters' questions about the reunion of the largest chunks of the Standard Oil empire by explaining that President Clinton "believes that mergers that make us more globally competitive have a positive role to play."

Oil workers will be the first to suffer from the Mobil-Exxon deal. But consumers won't fare well in the long run, either, according to consumer advocates. "Consumers are eventually going to pay the price, since it induces noncompetitive behavior," Wenonah Hauter of Public Citizen says of the merger.

As Exxon and Mobil move to corner the market on crude oil as well as natural gas, consumers will soon have nowhere else to turn to fuel their cars and heat their homes. The combined company will have the power to set prices and drive competitors out of business.

Both Mobil and Exxon have also worked actively to oppose an international agreement to reduce ozone-depleting gases. "Putting Exxon and Mobil together creates the Death Star of global warming," says John Passacantando, executive director of Ozone Action.
 

hopalong

Well-known member
Now what say you ff fff frankie or any of your other user id's. You gonna shut this subject down like you do on the other site when some one proves you wrong? :roll:
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
fff said:
The Democratic party has always stood for middle class, poor, and working people. .

You are correct the Democrats have did everything possible to keep people Working, Poor or Middle class! Got to keep their base intact.

God forbid these people improve their lives and decide they might vote Republican once they see the grass truly is greener over on the other side.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
woranch said:
Looks like Bill let the oil co. merger . Why don't you put some blame on him and his co president?

FF would never do that, she is a Kool Aid drinker, and she has two flavors of choice and they are "Liberal-Berry" and "CAB-Punch".
 

cutterone

Well-known member
As I see it there is'nt ANY polictician out there that will be able to pull our poor butts out of this mess even those with genuine intent. If the economy stays the same or worsens this will be a fight to the death bewteen corp business and livestock producers.
 
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