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is Beck wrong?

Steve

Well-known member
I am not an expert on the Bible, Christianity of Judaism.. but on the issue of Gog and maGog, I think many get it wrong..

The passage found in Ezekiel in particular has attracted attention due to its prophetic nature interpreted in the Jewish tradition as pertaining to the conflict between good and evil

part of it is in translation.. Gog and ma Gog are often refereed to as a people, or region..

in the context most give it appears if they are talking about two peoples or regions..

ma Gog is roughly translated .. of Gog.. or land of Gog,

ma gog is often put in this context as well "Gog from the land of maGog"

which if translated correctly would read... "Gog from the land of ofGog"

while the context is right the translation from Hebrew is wrong... and I have alot of trouble believing someone who didn't do all the research..

Ezekiel 39 is a fascinating passage.. and will come to pass.. many say over five months the war will rage until GOD intervenes,, so from say May 24 to Sept 24 of this year the Islamic world may turn against Israel,
(or as many who have attempted to predict in the past have found,.. it may not happen at all this year)

maybe someone can attempt to explain it.. as Beck was not able to on Friday as he had planned..

I do believe GOD is luring the Islamic enemy in.. like a fisherman lures a hungry fish.. :shock:

and I do believe GOD will prevail..

but the rest is left up to speculation..
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Interesting subject that I haven't really delved into. I am surprised that OT hasn't commented. He used to make comments about Gog and Magog all the time when Bush was President. Maybe Bush wasn't as uneducated and stupid as the left would like people to think, if he actually understood the issue of Gog and Magog. Maybe some of the people that mocked Bush on the subject, are the ones to ask. They seemed to be well educated on the subject.

There used to be quite a few people that used to make fun of Bush for believing that God guided his actions and decisions.

We never hear of those same people mocking obama when he has said that he prays for guidance before he makes decisions. but then again, doess anybody believe obama?


What I have read about Gog and Magog only leads me to think that there are quite a few interpretations. As Steve mentioned, language, previous translations etc. have lead to confusion on the subject.

IMO, any discussion concerning individuals being Gog and Magog would be incorrect. More likely regions, and those regions would be limited to those that were familiar to the peoples that were in "existence" during biblical times.

Not sure if that would include Russia, but definitely Persia and the old Roman empire. Can we reduce the possibilities from that?
 

Lonecowboy

Well-known member
that kind of stuff (prophesy and symbolism) in the Bible loses me pretty quick, but I listen to lots of Christian radio and have some friends that are heavy into prophesy so I am just regurgetating what I remember hearing.

The events in Egypt is what started all the talk about Ezekiel chapters 38-40. never before had anyone concieved in their minds how mid east arabic muslims and russians would ever join forces. but that seems to be what is happening with the radical comminist and radical muslims joining forces in Egypt and Libya. arabic nations and Russia I believe are said to be gog and magog.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Lonecowboy said:
that kind of stuff (prophesy and symbolism) in the Bible loses me pretty quick, but I listen to lots of Christian radio and have some friends that are heavy into prophesy so I am just regurgetating what I remember hearing.

The events in Egypt is what started all the talk about Ezekiel chapters 38-40. never before had anyone concieved in their minds how mid east arabic muslims and russians would ever join forces. but that seems to be what is happening with the radical comminist and radical muslims joining forces in Egypt and Libya. arabic nations and Russia I believe are said to be gog and magog.

both yourself and Steve mention the Biblical mentioning of Gog and Magog, and I guess I did too, but there is also mention in the Quran, supposedly.

so we know for certain that the issue crosses over religious beliefs, the same as many historical events do.

where it becomes really interesting in my opinion is how those religions interpret those beliefs. that's part of the reason I posted the thread on "the coming"

I think it is important, regardless of how/what we believe, or not believe, is communicated to those that do believe.

The situation that might bring about "Gog and Magog" to Christians may mean that the situation should be avoided at all costs, but to Iranians, it might be desired.

A world leader, such as a President, should not be mocked for educating himself on such, but encouraged to do so.

I don't think obama has the intellectual curiosity to do so. He is more ideological and a demogogue.

It does not matter if it is intentional or out of ignorance, but the results might turn out the same.

but that brings up a totally other discussion on whether radical Islamists and marxist goals are the somewhat the same.
 

Steve

Well-known member
Not sure if that would include Russia, but definitely Persia and the old Roman empire. Can we reduce the possibilities from that?

Russia is often a major player.,.. but that was before it broke up..

the Islamic regions,
# Kazakhstan
# Kyrgyzstan
# Tajikistan
# Turkmenistan
# Uzbekistan

would certainly be included, bur whether Russia itself will "join" the battle is uncertain and another area where translation becomes a factor..

a term often used for Russia is considered a mistranslation, where the Hebrew translation for the word would be chief of chief of princes, in the context of the text,

so that is up for debate...

as for the enemies of Israel
Persia ,former Russian territories, Cush, Put, Gomer, Togarmah,

or Iran , Iraq, Muslim African regions, Libya, Algeria, Tunisia and Morocco, Ethiopia, Armenian, Turkey and Turkestan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tadzhikistan, and Kyrgzstan. the list is longer and realistically could be the entire Muslim world.

those who will sit on their hands.. Saudi Arabia, Europe, the UK and it's descendants, (US and Australia? )

according to an obscure Islamic text, the scavenger bird is replaced with an eagle. so we may help clean up the mess...
 

Steve

Well-known member
The situation that might bring about "Gog and Magog" to Christians may mean that the situation should be avoided at all costs, but to Iranians, it might be desired.

for Christians it appears to lead to the tribulation. so that would not be good.
but I am not so sure the "events" are connected as many believe..

for the Israelis , GOD wins.. the entire enemy is decimated,
in effect all of Islam would be destroyed. while not wiped off the face of the earth, GOD only leaves bones to remind us they once existed.. lots of bones.

as for the Muslims, there are several passages and historical situations that set them up so to speak,. it is often said that a Jew wrote the koran, so he may have set them up.. also, they will be lured in.. a hook in their jaw.

Our all knowing GOD knew the Princes of Nations would be a problem.. and knew how he would deal with them.. so why not have them come to the barbecue willingly?
 

redrobin

Well-known member
Steve when you say a particular passage is mistranslated, what witness tree are you comparing it to? What text do you consider true?
 

Steve

Well-known member
Lonecowboy said:
that kind of stuff (prophesy and symbolism) in the Bible loses me pretty quick, but I listen to lots of Christian radio and have some friends that are heavy into prophesy so I am just regurgetating what I remember hearing.

The events in Egypt is what started all the talk about Ezekiel chapters 38-40. never before had anyone concieved in their minds how mid east arabic muslims and russians would ever join forces. but that seems to be what is happening with the radical comminist and radical muslims joining forces in Egypt and Libya. arabic nations and Russia I believe are said to be gog and magog.

actually there are a bunch of "nations' (or regions), that join the fight against Israel, Gog just seems to be in charge,

I had never understood the Gog of the land maGog before, and I can not get a grasp on revelation. and I am not heavy into prophesy,

mostly because I didn't understand the region or islam when I read it awhile back, but after re-reading it, with the recent events parts of it have become crystal clear.

one thing that shocked me was how the Islamist would start the "fire", their world would be shaken to the core, they would be so confused by shattering of their world and the fire, they would then turn on each other.. (that and a scenario that sounds an awful lot like a neutron and nuclear bomb dropped on Iran)..


taken with current events,.. and headlines such as,
Much of the Middle East and the Arab world, ranging from Iran in the east to Morocco in the west, is on fire. The blaze is spreading rapidly
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2011/.../editorial-middle-east-fire.html

Egypt's aftershocks shake the Washington debate
The Egyptian revolution is much like an earthquake: its epicenter may be Cairo, but its shockwaves have reached all the way to Washington.

the words may be metaphors.. but they are strikingly similar to the fate predicted long ago. maybe it is time to read Ezekiel

at least to understand the Bible better when this to comes to pass..
 

Steve

Well-known member
redrobin said:
Steve when you say a particular passage is mistranslated, what witness tree are you comparing it to? What text do you consider true?

I didn't say a passage was mistranslated but a word used by those trying to interpret a passage.. and gave a clear example.

when I can't understand a passage in the old testament and the interpretations conflict, I go back to Hebrew and look at the meaning of the words.. that often sheds a light on the passage and helps me decide who among the arguing scholars is on the right track..

that and I pray for guidance..
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
redrobin said:
Gen 10:2 ¶ The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.


"Magog, the son of Japheth & grandson of Noah; Josephus noted that the Greeks called them Scythians and also settled in Russia."

http://latter-rain.com/ot/gene.htm




Russia is identified in Ezekiel 38 as the Prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal. Magog, Meshech and Tubal were the sons of Japheth from whom came the Russians and Muscovites. Ezekiel 38 and 39 tell us that the Gog alliance is supernaturally defeated by God's intervention. Magog, according to both Jerome and Josephus, is a general designation for the many Scythian tribes of the north. Ezekiel - "Son of man, set your face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold I am against you, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshceh and Tubal. And I will turn you back, and bring hooks into your jaws. Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya, with them. Gomer and all his bands, the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands."
 

redrobin

Well-known member
redrobin said:
Gen 10:2 ¶ The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.

1Ch 5:4 The sons of Joel; Shemaiah his son, Gog his son, Shimei his son,
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
redrobin said:
redrobin said:
Gen 10:2 ¶ The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.

1Ch 5:4 The sons of Joel; Shemaiah his son, Gog his son, Shimei his son,

RB, I don't get what you are laying down. :D

Were not those verses meant to illustrate the distribution of "clans", or family to different parts of the known world?
 

Steve

Well-known member
redrobin said:
Gen 10:2 ¶ The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.

I knew a person named Dallas once as well,

but I can't see how you tie Magog (in Genesis( to Ezekails use of the term..

written: Ezekiel 38 "The word of the LORD came to me: “Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land Magog,"

while I had not and never will question the Bible, I do question how some attempt to explain complicated passages.. and use biblical terms out of context and improperly,

but if you can show how Ezekiel 38 is wrong feel free., . just don't expect me to agree with you.
 

redrobin

Well-known member
Steve said:
redrobin said:
Gen 10:2 ¶ The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.

I knew a person named Dallas once as well,

but I can't see how you tie Magog (in Genesis( to Ezekails use of the term..

written: Ezekiel 38 "The word of the LORD came to me: “Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land Magog,"

while I had not and never will question the Bible, I do question how some attempt to explain complicated passages.. and use biblical terms out of context and improperly,

but if you can show how Ezekiel 38 is wrong feel free., . just don't expect me to agree with you.
Steve I don't get your point. I don't plainly see your example. Beck is wrong. Gog and MaGog were clearly different people with different fathers. Maybe I'm missing what your saying. I felt like you were saying Beck was wrong but from there I'm confused.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
redrobin said:
Steve said:
redrobin said:
Gen 10:2 ¶ The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.

I knew a person named Dallas once as well,

but I can't see how you tie Magog (in Genesis( to Ezekails use of the term..

written: Ezekiel 38 "The word of the LORD came to me: “Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land Magog,"

while I had not and never will question the Bible, I do question how some attempt to explain complicated passages.. and use biblical terms out of context and improperly,

but if you can show how Ezekiel 38 is wrong feel free., . just don't expect me to agree with you.
Steve I don't get your point. I don't plainly see your example. Beck is wrong. Gog and MaGog were clearly different people with different fathers. Maybe I'm missing what your saying. I felt like you were saying Beck was wrong but from there I'm confused.

I may be wrong, but wasn't Beck only using gog and magog to illustrate regions involved in recent conflict/happenings?

so if that is true, you would have to only consider passages that refer to gog and magog as regional and not as personal names.

Am I off base?
 

Steve

Well-known member
redrobin said:
Steve said:
redrobin said:
Gen 10:2 ¶ The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.

I knew a person named Dallas once as well,

but I can't see how you tie Magog (in Genesis( to Ezekails use of the term..

written: Ezekiel 38 "The word of the LORD came to me: “Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land Magog,"

while I had not and never will question the Bible, I do question how some attempt to explain complicated passages.. and use biblical terms out of context and improperly,

but if you can show how Ezekiel 38 is wrong feel free., . just don't expect me to agree with you.
Steve I don't get your point. I don't plainly see your example. Beck is wrong. Gog and MaGog were clearly different people with different fathers. Maybe I'm missing what your saying. I felt like you were saying Beck was wrong but from there I'm confused.

your talking about Genesis.. I have been talking about Ezekiel 38-40 and while a person should understand both and the connection it is to confusing to try to explain both at the same time..

but to get back to my original question.

Beck referred to GOG and maGog in reference to Ezekiel 38-40

it seems as if Beck is leading up to saying the current events in the middle east are leading to Ezekiel's prophecy being fulfilled..

Thus the question. is Beck wrong?



I then opened up the conversation with a little information about the interpretations of Ezekiel , and showed how many "scholars" misinterpret, mis-translate, or use the improper context and most importantly that we should be careful and do our own research to make sure we are not led astray

Beck started discussing Gog and magog, in reference to Ezekiel on Thursday before he was taken of the air Friday..

since I have shown in my first post, that saying Gog and maGog in reference to Ezekiel is in the wrong context, wrong translation and misinterpreted, the question is Beck wrong?..

is a lead into what will hopefully be an understanding of the passages and current events in the middle east..
 

Steve

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
redrobin said:
Steve said:
I knew a person named Dallas once as well,

but I can't see how you tie Magog (in Genesis( to Ezekails use of the term..

written: Ezekiel 38 "The word of the LORD came to me: “Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land Magog,"

while I had not and never will question the Bible, I do question how some attempt to explain complicated passages.. and use biblical terms out of context and improperly,

but if you can show how Ezekiel 38 is wrong feel free., . just don't expect me to agree with you.
Steve I don't get your point. I don't plainly see your example. Beck is wrong. Gog and MaGog were clearly different people with different fathers. Maybe I'm missing what your saying. I felt like you were saying Beck was wrong but from there I'm confused.

I may be wrong, but wasn't Beck only using gog and magog to illustrate regions involved in recent conflict/happenings?

so if that is true, you would have to only consider passages that refer to gog and magog as regional and not as personal names.

Am I off base?

no,... you have the right idea, but Beck by calling it Gog and maGog seems to make sound like it is two regions.. or two people.. two nations,

in many Bible references it would refer to two people, two sons, or two tribes, depending on the context.

in Ezekiel is is clear it is Gog, of the land maGog..
Gog is a people or person, and maGog is the land he is from or controls..

Like saying Hypo of Canada..

you would not say Hypo and Canada when talking about you and where you are from,. would we?? ..
 
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