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Is China quietly dumping US Treasuries?

Steve

Well-known member
SandHusker
It looks to me that the reason household income has risen is because there are two people working instead of one. I'd like to know how many households had two earners in 1967 - that's the key to interpreting if any real gains were made or not.

I took the more moderate "household income figure"...instead of the more accurate "disposable personal income figure",..

You make a good point, but single parent household are increasing,..thus causing the households to actually decrease in income..

While household income has increased, its growth has been slowed by a decrease in married-couple households who tend to have two earners and, therefore, higher incomes. While the proportion of wives working year-round in married couple households with children has increased from 17% in 1967 to 39% in 1996, the proportion of such households among the general population has decreased. This means that that the share the most economically prosperous type of household in the has been dwindling in the United States. In 1969, more than 40% of all households consisted of a married couple with children. By 1996 only a rough quarter of US households consisted of married couples with children. As a result of these changing household demographics, median household income rose relatively slow despite an ever increasing female labor force and a considerable increase in the percentage of college graduates
 

Cal

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Cal said:
Sandhusker said:
Actually, we do have a huge problem with credit card debt in this country. The "average" family has $9000 in credit cards, and need I mention anything about the rates?

I see it everyday. Everytime somebody applies for a loan or renews, we pull a credit check. Finding a credit report without any cc debt is unusual. I have no problem believing the $9000 figure.
Only 8.3% of households owe $9000 or more on their cards.
http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20623

You have one person saying one thing and one saying another. Who are you going to believe? I believe the person who's story matches my personal observations.
Uhhh, yeah, you really get quite the cross section of the country, don't you? Sandhills and Rosebud.... :roll:
 

Steve

Well-known member
MoGal
Countries outside the USA have already been questioning the stock market activities but to no surprise the Federal Reserve (which is not owned by the government but by central bankers) has remained...... silent. Their silence and refusal to correct the problem has caused other countries to start pulling back, because although their currency is based on the dollar, they realize the dollar is worthless.

Many countries have already requested to be paid in Euros, not dollars.

Many of the countries that are questioning the stock market have made risky investments...and the fed should not bail out piss poor investors....

They have not been silent,..it is not their job to bail out bad investments..
and at over 13136, it is performing fairly well right now...


as for the dollar:
Sept. 6, 2007

Dollar Appreciated in August

The average monthly value for the trade-weighted dollar index of 15 major currencies tracked by the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta increased August,

some one must have "wanted dollars"...

the dollar is low...and has been low in the past...nothing new...

BUT look at a few facts...
US investors are helping spur the dollar's drop. U.S. investors bought 43 percent more foreign stocks and bonds last year than in 2005, Treasury Department data show.

Not china bought less....not foreign countries bought less...but US investors bought less, thats right US investors bought 43% more foreign stocks...maybe your money manager is listening to you when you say you want a higher return...and going and getting it...



The dollar's depreciation has boosted overseas sales at U.S. exporters, while hurting non-U.S. companies.

There is an up-side of a low dollar. it helps Americans hold jobs while hurting others...

When the euro gains, people in Europe get nervous that it's going to hurt employment,'' said Robert Mundell, an economics professor at Columbia University in New York and winner of the 1999 Nobel Prize in economics.
 

Steve

Well-known member
SandHusker
Looks like too many variables and too many ways of looking at it to make a call you could bet much on.

I look at it like this...in the seventies I didn't have a damn thing...but was working my ass off..
first half of the Eighties...same story...

Then through out the late eighties I got my **** together and learned how the economy worked, how business worked... then as the nineties approached I went and got a business degree...I put that knowledge to good use...and worked my ass off...

and now I have to much stuff,.. I'm not rich,... but I'm not struggling.

But I still see opportunity every where...

so in my opinion...I am doing much better now then in 1970.

But you are right there are to many "variables and too many ways of looking at it",...

so one could look at their big screen TV and bitch how bad cable is....while another says this is a hell of alot better then black and white with rabbit ears...
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Cal said:
Sandhusker said:
Cal said:
http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20623

You have one person saying one thing and one saying another. Who are you going to believe? I believe the person who's story matches my personal observations.
Uhhh, yeah, you really get quite the cross section of the country, don't you? Sandhills and Rosebud.... :roll:

Have you got a better reason for believing one over the other?
 

Steve

Well-known member
Chinese inflation at decade high

Chinese inflation has hit its second 10-year high in two months

Beijing is said to be acutely aware that while the country's growing urbanised middle class can cope with the higher food prices, it is a major problem for the country's rural poor, who make up most of the population.

Non-food prices rose just 0.9% in the year to August.

"The risk is that if the economy continues to grow very rapidly, this inflation, which looks concentrated in food, starts spreading," said Rob Subbaraman, chief Asia economist
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6988593.stm

If pork prices keep going up in China, maybe we can sell them some BEEF....

one thing about a global economy,.. often a country that seems like a huge threat, has many other problems to deal with...
 

MoGal

Well-known member
I've come to really like this man's writing, Paul Craig Roberts. You can read the full article at www.prisonplanet.com scroll down to the bottom and the article is named : American Economy RIP
YOU have to look farther than just is what immediately around you.... what the CHINA THREATENS article is about is they are dumping the dollars for secured treasury.... THE DOLLAR IS BACKED BY NOTHING (not even gold anymore) and when the dollar is no longer accepted as the world currency..... and many countries are already questioning this.....
---------------------

In August, jobs in goods-producing industries declined by 64,000. The US economy lost 4,000 jobs overall. The private sector created a mere 24,000 jobs, all of which could be attributed to the 24,100 new jobs for waitresses and bartenders, and the government sector lost 28,000 jobs.

In the 21st century, the US economy has ceased to create jobs in export industries and in industries that compete with imports. US job growth has been confined to domestic services, principally to food services and drinking places (waitresses and bartenders), private education and health services (ambulatory health care and hospital orderlies), and construction (which now has tanked). The lack of job growth in higher-productivity, higher-paid occupations associated with the American middle and upper middle classes will eventually kill the US consumer market.

The unemployment rate held steady, but that is because 340,000 Americans unable to find jobs dropped out of the labor force in August. The US measures unemployment only among the active work force, which includes those seeking jobs. Those who are discouraged and have given up are not counted as unemployed.

** nor are the ones who have drawn out their 26 weeks of unemployment benefits **


When US companies offshore their production for US markets, the consequences for the US economy are highly detrimental. One consequence is that foreign labor is substituted for US labor, resulting in a shriveling of career opportunities and income growth in the US. Another is that US Gross Domestic Product is turned into imports. By turning US brand names into imports, offshoring has a double whammy on the US trade deficit. Simultaneously, imports rise by the amount of offshored production, and the supply of exportable manufactured goods declines by the same amount.
------------------------
What is striking about US dependency on imports is that it is practically across the board. Americans are dependent on imports of foreign foods, feeds, and beverages in the amount of $8,975,000,000.


What does it mean that the US has a $800 billion trade deficit?

It means that Americans are consuming $800 billion more than they are producing.

How do Americans pay for it?

They pay for it by giving up ownership of existing assets -- stocks, bonds, companies, real estate, commodities. America used to be a creditor nation. Now America is a debtor nation. Foreigners own $2.5 trillion more of American assets than Americans own of foreign assets. When foreigners acquire ownership of US assets, they also acquire ownership of the future income streams that the assets produce. More income shifts away from Americans.


How long can Americans consume more than they can produce?

[/b]American over-consumption can continue for as long as Americans can find ways to go deeper in personal debt in order to finance their consumption and for as long as the US dollar can remain the world reserve currency.
[/b]

The 21st century has brought Americans (with the exception of CEOs, hedge fund managers and investment bankers) no growth in real median household income. Americans have increased their consumption by dropping their saving rate to the depression level of 1933 when there was massive unemployment and by spending their home equity and running up credit card bills. The ability of a population, severely impacted by the loss of good jobs to foreigners as a result of offshoring and H-1B work visas and by the bursting of the housing bubble, to continue to accumulate more personal debt is limited to say the least.

Foreigners accept US dollars in exchange for their real goods and services, because dollars can be used to settle every country�s international accounts. By running a trade deficit, the US insures the financing of its government budget deficit as the surplus dollars in foreign hands are invested in US Treasuries and other dollar-denominated assets.

The ability of the US dollar to retain its reserve currency status is eroding due to the continuous increases in US budget and trade deficits. Today the world is literally flooded with dollars. In attempts to reduce the rate at which they are accumulating dollars, foreign governments and investors are diversifying into other traded currencies. As a result, the dollar prices of the Euro, UK pound, Canadian dollar, Thai baht, and other currencies have been bid up. In the 21st century, the US dollar has declined about 33 percent against other currencies. The US dollar remains the reserve currency primarily due to habit and the lack of a clear alternative.


The jobs data and the absence of growth in real income for most of the population are inconsistent with reports of US GDP and productivity growth. Economists take for granted that the work force is paid in keeping with its productivity. A rise in productivity thus translates into a rise in real incomes of workers. Yet, we have had years of reported strong productivity growth but stagnant or declining household incomes. And somehow the GDP is rising, but not the incomes of the work force.

Something is wrong here. Either the data indicating productivity and GDP growth are wrong or Karl Marx was right that capitalism works to concentrate income in the hands of the few capitalists. A case can be made for both explanations.

Recently an economist, Susan Houseman, discovered that the reliability of some US economics statistics has been impaired by offshoring. Houseman found that cost reductions achieved by US firms shifting production offshore are being miscounted as GDP growth in the US and that productivity gains achieved by US firms when they move design, research, and development offshore are showing up as increases in US productivity. Obviously, production and productivity that occur abroad are not part of the US domestic economy.

Houseman�s discovery rated a Business Week cover story last June 18, [The Real Cost Of Offshoring, by Michael Mandel] but her important discovery seems already to have gone down the memory hole.

The media has likewise let the story go, because in the 1990s the Clinton administration and Congress overturned US policy in favor of a diverse and independent media and permitted a few mega-corporations to concentrate in their hands the ownership of the US media, which reports in keeping with corporate and government interests.

The case for Marx is that offshoring has boosted corporate earnings by lowering labor costs, thereby concentrating income growth in the hands of the owners and managers of capital.
The careers and financial prospects of many Americans were destroyed to achieve these lofty earnings for the few.
 

Steve

Well-known member
It was another nice well informed article that backed up the authors assumptions...

But what does that mean for US?

to understand "mega Corporations"..you must understand business..

and beating up companies does nothing to solve any thing other then forcing them to relocate over seas...

Small sole proprietors grow, expand pay taxes and then at some point are either sold or the owner dies...then inheritance tax takes the rest from the business forcing liquidation, and sell off of assets.., death robs the business of leadership, direction and most of all assets...
An estimated 25.5 million small businesses in America employ more than half of the country's private workforce, create three of every four new jobs, and generate a majority of American innovations

Corporations are entities that do not die, they are never hit with the same "at once" tax burden...

the only way to avoid the tax hit at death is to incorporate, or trusts...

this is only one root cause of the corporate global world...

your reacting...to the result...the symptoms..not the actual problems..

why do theses corporations hold so much power...is not even the correct question...


But instead "why do they exist"?

Why do so many people "blindly fund them" through the stock market?

Small Business is the major job provider in most economies. The top job provider is those with less than 10 employees,

General Small-Business Facts
85 percent of Americans view small businesses as a positive influence on American life (NFIB, 2001).
Small businesses account for more than 40 percent of the offline economy (IDC, January 2001).
An estimated 25.5 million small businesses in America employ more than half of the country's private workforce, create three of every four new jobs, and generate a majority of American innovations (Small Business Administration, 2000).
Small businesses represent more than 99 percent of all employers (Small Business Administration, December, 2000).
Online Small-Business Facts
Small businesses and home offices account for 40 percent of all technology investment in the United States (IDC, January 2001).
Five million small businesses and 15 million income-generating home offices still don't have a web site, and fewer than 5 percent of small businesses that are online have been selling products and services online for longer than a year (IDC, January 2001).
By 2004, small e-merchants — those with fewer than 10 employees and less than $3 million in annual sales — could account for as much as 10 percent of the U.S. gross domestic product (Keenan Vision Inc., 2000).
About 3.4 million nonresidential small businesses now have Internet access, along with 7.4 million small-business branch offices (Cyber Dialogue, June 2000).
Today 84 percent of small businesses have PCs, 57 percent have Internet access, 21 percent have web sites, and 18 percent have high-speed access (AMI International, May 2000).
An estimated 85 percent of small businesses will be conducting business over the Internet by 2002 (Small Business Administration, June 2000).
Small-Business Revenue Facts
Small companies will see their online sales grow 336 percent to $120 billion from 2000 to the end of 2002 (Ami-Partners, Inc. 2000).
The average annual income of a small business utilizing the Internet is $3 million per year compared with an average of $1.9 million for small businesses in general (IDC, April 2000).
Women- and Minority-Owned Business Facts
More than three million businesses are minority-owned, and this number is growing (Dun & Bradstreet, 2001).
There are more than 9.1 million women-owned businesses — accounting for more than a third of all U.S. companies — and this number is growing (Dun & Bradstreet, 2001).
 

MoGal

Well-known member
The problem is that we have all kinds of trade agreements that are positives for corporates and negatives for Americans. We need fair, equal trade....... a Wage Equalization tariff (co's that went overseas for cheap labor won't find the advantage if they have to pay a tariff) plus these same companies are not paying any charges of anything since they are an American co. shipping their products back to the USA. We have to make it a disadvantage to ship jobs overseas if we want to save American jobs and the economy.

The only jobs being created are low wage jobs, waitress, bartender, nurse aide,etc... and with Mexicans coming in for jobs illegally they will work much cheaper and that tanks the job market even more. Companys now want to do away with health insurance, retirement pensions and threaten employees they will move the work overseas if they don't concede.

When the world stops accepting the DOLLAR as the national currency, which will happen..... the Federal Reserve keeps creating money, but they cannot create confidence and consumer spending. When other countries want to be paid in Euros, Yen or whatever that will increase the cost we see in the market because it takes more dollars to make one of theirs.

Something they've all forgot, if they squeeze out the middle class who is going to buy their stuff? There are too many people out there that are already feeling the pinch and its not even started yet.

You quote small businesses but how many of those small businesses pay $15 - $20 an hour or more? How many of them provide insurance and benefits??


As I see it, we need to get lobbyists out of Washington so Congress can serve the People, not corporate America. More people need to get interested and write, email, fax their congressional leaders so that they will know where their constituents stand. We need to get out of the WTO, NAFTA and any other trade agreement that is not equal trade for the American people. We need to stop allowing foreign countries more than 49 percent of ownership of ANY American company. Those are just starters I'm sure others can come up with more.
 

Steve

Well-known member
We need to stop allowing foreign countries more than 49 percent of ownership of ANY American company.

Try it the corporation will drop the US corporation and be European this after noon...

I understand your "frustration",..but you don't make any sense...

Corporations have not been US corporations for awhile now...

Stock holders "own the corporations"... are you saying "only Americans" should own companies incorporated in the US..???
 

Steve

Well-known member
MOGal
The problem is

You keep changing the problem...


But any way...I'll try to respond to most,,the rest I'll ignore because I have to much to do today...

MoGal
We need fair, equal trade.

I agree...

MoGal
plus these same companies are not paying any charges of anything since they are an American co.
but with the "crumbling dollar", they might get a rebate on you Wage idea...

MoGal
plus these same companies are not paying any charges of anything since they are an American co

? Please explain??? What happened to Corporate Taxes???...Dividend taxes???,.. sales tax???

MoGal
We have to make it a disadvantage to ship jobs overseas if we want to save American jobs and the economy.

Fed took care that already,..see crumbling dollar comment...

MOGal
The only jobs being created are low wage jobs, waitress, bartender, nurse aide,etc..

Not true...already disproved..didn't you read about raising household income...better education ect, causing increase...Poor getting poorer, because they are not working...

But even if what you are saying was true,.(which it's not)...can you explain how our Government should "make" better jobs..isn't that communism..????

MoGal
Companys now want to do away with health insurance, retirement pensions and threaten employees they will move the work overseas if they don't concede.

again business are not in business to Make give you things..they are in business to make money... all of what you complained about are considered expenses...

Back to core or root problem...Corporations do not die..they also do not have morals...just regulatory guidelines..so they don't care about you...and never will unless you make them more money then you cost them...


MoGal
When the world stops accepting the DOLLAR as the national currency, which will happen..

I know it will be awful...then every thing you want now,..isolationists policy will be forced upon US... we will be forced to rely upon ourselves and not import all their crap...and china will be buying our cheap crap and complaining about US...all the while some chinese lady will be spamming a forum with your comments (only in chinese)..

MoGal
Something they've all forgot, if they squeeze out the middle class who is going to buy their stuff?

doesn't matter,..they are corporations.. They will do some research, find out what the chinese want and open new opportunities...and business..
 

Steve

Well-known member
MoGal
You quote small businesses but how many of those small businesses pay $15 - $20 an hour or more? How many of them provide insurance and benefits??

I showed small business facts to "refute your claims"...and to try to inform you, of a deeper understanding of why your conspiracy theories are ill-informed..


The fact is that Corporations exist because of tax regulations and laws that benefit them... but to remove that unfairness we must be prepared for the results...

Yes theses corporations have an advantage, but as you pointed out they pay well...and provide many more benefits to their employees..

so eliminate them at your own peril...tax and regulate them out of the country...

I say eliminate the cause of sole proprietors changing their companies into corporations, and build that base again,..
 

MoGal

Well-known member
You talk about taxes on Corporations being unfair? Most of them pay less than 2 percent..... I wish that's all I paid.

Do you think the taxes on the American People is fair and then we get to bail these crooks out when they start going under..... we get a double whammy.
 

Mike

Well-known member
MoGal said:
You talk about taxes on Corporations being unfair? Most of them pay less than 2 percent..... I wish that's all I paid.

Do you think the taxes on the American People is fair and then we get to bail these crooks out when they start going under..... we get a double whammy.

Corporations are double taxed. There should be no taxes on corporations to start with.

Corporations pay the federal corporate income tax, and then with their remaining after-tax income, they pay dividends to their shareholders. Those individuals then must pay an additional, individual-level tax on those amounts.

Corporate Tax Rates:

Taxable income Tax rate

$ 0 $ 50,000 15%
50,000 75,000 25%
75,000 100,000 34%
100,000 335,000 39%
335,000 10,000,000 34%
10,000,000 15,000,000 35%
15,000,000 18,333,333 38%
18,333,333 .......... 35%
 

MoGal

Well-known member
Yes, those figures are nice if corporations simply paid them. I googled Corporate Taxes paid and found all this so you tell me how much taxes these corporations are paying.........

http://www.ctj.org/html/corp0205.htm
Corporate Tax Avoidance In the States Even Worse Than Federal

http://www.cbpp.org/10-16-03tax.htm
THE DECLINE OF CORPORATE INCOME TAX REVENUES


http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2004/04/11/most_us_firms_paid_no_income_taxes_in_90s/
Most US firms paid no income taxes in '90s

http://www.ctj.org/html/enron.htm
Less Than Zero: Enron's Income Tax Payments, 1996-2000

http://www.citizenworks.org/corp/tax/corp_tax_dodgers.php
this has a whole page full of stuff.................
 

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