Is No-One Except USA Proud Enough to Label

[S.S.A.P.]

Sandhusker wrote:
Why is the US, Canada, and Mexico and the OIE relaxing standards on BSE? Is the disease less deadly? Has it been contained or eradicated? Is there an anti-dote? Nope. It was done for money. Guess who profits the most?

Sandhusker wrote:
Do you think scientists know more about BSE now than they did in May, 2003? You don't think it odd that things suddenly needed to be changed after that date?

Oldtimer has the cure (to over-ride all science & health facts) - his anti-dote is "COOL"

Oldtimer wrote:
Like I've said before- If M-COOL is initiated, I'd say throw open the border....

But
.... will we see the information released by Consumer Federation of America (CFA) and Public Citizen, who, repeatedly discredited the U.S. systems that protect the U.S. beef supply and public health. CFA co-signed with CCMP (a lobbying organization operated by the Organization for Competitive Markets (OCM) and R-CALF)
.... will we see consumers confused and asking "is any beef safe?"
.... how does a COOL label make r-calf's diseased beef suddenly good enough to offer to the consumer?

 

[Anonymous]

Sand: "Canada's BSE shoe IS on our foot. In case you haven't noticed, there are a few countries who don't take our product....

Sand: "Tam, according to R-CALF, our beef is not diseased - we haven't had a domestic case of BSE ever. Until we find one, I have to agree."


Keep practicing Sandhusker. You are well on your way to becoming CEO of R-CULT. Your political double talk is in high demand for that deceptive outfit.


OT: "And on top of that Japan says they don't care what OIE says- they say the changes are nonbinding and are still going to make their own decisions based on their beliefs and research....So what good is OIE "

Some tobacco users say they are going to continue to use tobacco no matter what the surgeon general's warning says, so what good is cancer research.

Same ridiculous logic.

Let's stop research because some minority group doesn't believe in it.

Whatever it takes to keep that border closed huh OT?


Sand: "I guess we're not supposed to take note that the science we have today is the same we had prior to May, 2003? We're not supposed to notice that the "old" standards appeared to be working fine until May, 2003? We're supposed to forget that the USDA testified to Congress that the "old" standards were integral to keeping BSE out of this country?"

Straight from the R-CULT desk of "SAY WHATEVER YOU HAVE TO IN ORDER TO KEEP THOSE CANADIAN CATTLE OUT THAT ARE NOW COMING DOWN IN BOXES".

That's like saying we should continue to bangs vaccinate indefinitely without considering the precautionary measures that have been taken to create the absence of brucelosis.

That's how backwards that logic is!


Agman to Sand: "That is not too complicated to understand."

You forgot you were talking to an R-CULT stooge. Logic does not enter the equation.



~SH~

 

[Sandhusker]

Murgen, "I think if you're honest you will agree that, when something happens to the US, BSE border closures, there is all of a sudden urgency to figure out the Science. Did't really matter much when it was in Europe, now did it."

Yeah, I'll agree with you that that when anything happens to us, it suddenly becomes a much large problem and we demand attention. We seem to think there is no problem until it is our problem - then it is the world's problem. Yet, what do we know about prions, SRM's etc.... that we didn't know on May, 2003?

Since 2003 we have learned (1) human blood transfusions can transmit vCJD; (2) deer appear to pass CWD vertically through bodily fluids or decayed corpses; (3) vCJD has now occurred in countries that received large amounts of MBM from the UK - Netherlands, France, Ireland as well as in Turkey possibly; (4) traces of prions were detected in muscle in CJD patients; (5) misfolded prions (asymptomatic vCJD) were detected in the spleen of a person with a different genotype than Met/Met; (6) a different cattle TSE -- "BASE" was found in Italy which resembles classic CJD, not BSE and vCJD.

To sum up -- we have more indication that TSEs are transmissable in ways we didn't think they were in 2003. I've probably forgotten the most important stuff, but if you look at the UK SEAC meetings which are on line, they generally react to the most impact new findings or research.

Thank you, Reader. So now the wise thing is to lower standards? :roll:

 

[don]

i guess you can document rare cases of transmission but the overriding question becomes: where is the evidence that this is happening in non-laboratory populations? direct injection into the brain only proves that introduction of prions can cause a tse but it doesn't make any progress in actually documenting how a tse is transmitted in the general population. so far a lot of conjecture and some circumstantial evidence but nothing definitive. by the way reader can you say pedantic and pretentious? go for it!

 

[Kathy]

Sorry Reader, you're attack of Don is unwarranted. What he said is absolutely true. All of the research you post is very interesting, but it does not show that consuming prions in our food causes anything.

Please provide us with the research that shows animals which consumed MBM or SRMs, developed BSE. Of course, these must be controlled studies which DID NOT "homogenate, sonicate and inject or drench" directly into the stomach.

I have no doubt that when you inject the homogenated prions that have been subjected to sonication (molecular excitement via sound or vibration), you can transmit the disease.

What I want to see is the actual experiments where animals were fed Meat and Bonemeal that contained unhomogenized (etc) SRMs, and the results there of.

A quote from the late Elizabeth Williams, USA CWD expert:

www.cwd-info.org/pdf/5cc21cb9.pdf.

"Beth Williams, a professor of veterinary sciences at the University of Wyoming who first discovered CWD in 1977, examined the susceptibility of cattle exposed to CWD by intracerebral inoculation, oral inoculation and by contact with CWD-infected cervids in endemic facilities. Three of 13 cattle inoculated intracerebrally developed evidence of CWD, Williams reports. But cattle exposed via more natural routes of exposure have shown no evidence of CWD."

She was the foremost expert on CWD in the USA, and clearly she did not give credence to these 3 cases of transmission, as they were inoculation/injection transmission cases.

Where is the evidence of tranmission via natural routes of exposure? Placing animals in a diseased pen doesn't cover it either, as their dietary intake must be controlled and monitored.

Proof is an ugly word in science. As someone mentioned earlier, disproving is easier than proving.

Show us the proof that eating prions causes disease via "natural routes of exposure".

 

[Anonymous]

Kathy-- Yours and Kaisers posts always remind me of the one fact--There is more unknown about TSE's, BSE, and vCJD then there is known--everything is still all theories and unproven...That makes me more convinced than I ever was that we should not be relaxing our import standards or our testing requirements.......

The very least we could do for the consumer is to require every piece of beef be labeled as to the country it comes from (M-COOL) and let the consumer use their own knowledge of the disease to make a decision...

 

[Kathy]

I certainly can understand your way of thinking here. But, I hope you will not allow fear to control your thoughts and decisions.

After all, tobacco is known to cause more illness and death than BSE; but, the product is still on the shelves.

Driving under the influence kills and maims hundreds of thousands, but the product is still on the shelf.

BSE occurs without the consumption of prions. Some call this spontaneous, but that is not really true, as everything happens for a reason.

As Reader and myself have pointed out, cases of animals born after the reinforced feed bans are still occurring in the UK. How long are we going to blame the rancher for feeding that animal something he shouldn't have?

There is NO PROOF that mineral imbalance DOES NOT CAUSE BSE.

THERE IS PROOF THAT MINERAL IMBALANCE CAUSES MALFORMED PROTEINS WITH THE EXACT TERTIARY STRUCTURE OF PRIONS.
(Dr. David Brown, University of Bath, UK)

Dr. Michael McDonnell, of Nebraska, has experimented with supplementing elk/deer with copper after finding CWD in the herd. He has been successful at stopping any further cases from showing up in these herds.

Governments have been looking at this problem for almost 20 years, yet to date, we have no controlled research published which shows BSE was transmitted via "natural routes of exposure".

Would you be open to allowing other countries to run the BSE tests on your cattle?

I ask this because Canada sent their preliminary positives to the UK for final testing, while the USA did their own final tests. Canadians have the element of trust between them and other countries. The USA does not have this element of trust with nearly as many.

 

[Anonymous]

Kathy- I have no problem with and in fact think they should have allowed outside testing...I spent 30 years in law enforcement collecting evidence for lab analysis--we usually tried to get large enough of a sample to allow not only the state lab to test, but the possibility of any federal or independent labs required by the defense......

Ms Vennaman and USDA have dropped the ball from day one and now everyone is in the process of trying to patch holes......

Its still my personal opinion if she and USDA had worked WITH instituting a mandatory COOL law instead of backing the packers and retailers and fighting it every way possible- the Canadian border would be open today :?