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Is Rcalf to blame for this one too SH?

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rkaiser

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Went to a bull sale yesterday here in Southern Alberta. One of our top breeders who just so happens to be a partner with a fine American breeder from Oklahoma as well.

Great set of bulls that seem to have lost a major part of their market over the USDA's decision to keep the border closed to Canadian Breeding stock. OR is that Rcalf's decision SH? I don't know how long this guy can hang on. Thank goodness for his semen and embryo market. Passed way too many good bulls.

We have watched purebred ranch after purebred ranch suffer or shut down due to this unfair policy, yet very little attention is ever paid to this major problem.

Any thoughts? Other than SH Bwamin Rcalf.
 

Bill

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rkaiser said:
Went to a bull sale yesterday here in Southern Alberta. One of our top breeders who just so happens to be a partner with a fine American breeder from Oklahoma as well.

Great set of bulls that seem to have lost a major part of their market over the USDA's decision to keep the border closed to Canadian Breeding stock. OR is that Rcalf's decision SH? I don't know how long this guy can hang on. Thank goodness for his semen and embryo market. Passed way too many good bulls.

We have watched purebred ranch after purebred ranch suffer or shut down due to this unfair policy, yet very little attention is ever paid to this major problem.

Any thoughts? Other than SH Bwamin Rcalf.
I wasn't aware that R-Calf supported the border re-opening to Canadian breeding stock! :roll:
 
A

Anonymous

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Randy,

No, the breeding stock problem in Canada currently is in USDA's hands and hopefully science will prevail and not politics. I don't believe the border should remain closed unless USDA has "UNBIASED" scientists that are convinced that allowing breeding stock in from Canada is not worth the risk of importing BSE. I'm certainly not qualified to make that decision but unlike deceptive R-CULT, I'm not going to taint the process with politics. I'd rather freely trade with Canada. I have no problems with Canadian cattle producers or Canadian cattle.


~SH~ (the simple minded puke) LOL!
 

Jason

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rkaiser said:
Went to a bull sale yesterday here in Southern Alberta. One of our top breeders who just so happens to be a partner with a fine American breeder from Oklahoma as well.

Great set of bulls that seem to have lost a major part of their market over the USDA's decision to keep the border closed to Canadian Breeding stock. OR is that Rcalf's decision SH? I don't know how long this guy can hang on. Thank goodness for his semen and embryo market. Passed way too many good bulls.

We have watched purebred ranch after purebred ranch suffer or shut down due to this unfair policy, yet very little attention is ever paid to this major problem.

Any thoughts? Other than SH Bwamin Rcalf.

It is sad when a man's life work gets broadsided, but just as many purebred outfits have survived. I am at a point where I am reasonably confident that I will survive this mess.

98% of my income has been derived from purebred cattle. I went to work for 14 months to help out. I changed my expense pattern, lowered my costs and lowered my price of bulls, guess what? I sold out this spring of all bulls, even the 15 I expected to keep for 2 year olds.

Was it all fun and games? No, it would have been much more comfortable staying status quo and plugging along.

Can we forsee all situations like this one? No some will get caught. The point is to pay attention and don't wait until things are bad to make adjustments.

I have chatted with another purebred breeder from Ranchers.net and they are surviving too.

Number 1 thing most ranchers don't know especially purebred outfits, what are your costs? Purebred cows in my opinion should be managed as close to commercial cows in the area. Sometimes mine work harder.

That ranch Randy refered to is now a multinational(OK. USA and AB Can). Wonder how that affected the customers opinions? Didn't he used to get his beef for his wonderful beef dinner from Cargill? Now I think he would supply his own from his beef shop. I wonder what the profits are on that store?
 

rkaiser

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Gee Jason, according to your "just as many survived statement", I guess 50% of purebred breeders in Canada going down isn't a problem to you.

I would not be that pessimistic. Most have survived, but have burned up a pile of equity.

Like you Jason, and unfortunately for you, I will survive. Only our 6th annual bull sale, but sold every one of our thirty five bulls last March with a $2566 average. I have not received an off farm cheque for 23 years and never had my farm nor the business handed to me on any silver platter. But according to you and good old SH, I know nothing about the industry. :p

As for SH, and his Science, BSE has nothing to do with science except for the best science that can make money for the company or the guy using it that day.

Elwapo - the sale we were at was Hirshe Herefords and the average is only for the media anyway. When a 1/2 interest in a yearling bull sells for $135,000.00 average means nothing. Weonly caught the last 40 minutes of the sale, but I would guess that 10 to 15 pretty darn good bulls passed in that time alone.
 
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Anonymous

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Randy Kaiser: "But according to you and good old SH, I know nothing about the industry."

I may have implied that you have a lot to learn about the "packing industry" but I am sure you are knowledgeable about the cattle industry.



~SH~
 

rkaiser

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Implied ---- Implied? What does implied mean SH?

No Murgen, I never saw yer little freind.

Are you going to the BAR 5 sale Murgen?
 

Jason

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rkaiser said:
Gee Jason, according to your "just as many survived statement", I guess 50% of purebred breeders in Canada going down isn't a problem to you.

I would not be that pessimistic. Most have survived, but have burned up a pile of equity.

Like you Jason, and unfortunately for you, I will survive. Only our 6th annual bull sale, but sold every one of our thirty five bulls last March with a $2566 average. I have not received an off farm cheque for 23 years and never had my farm nor the business handed to me on any silver platter. But according to you and good old SH, I know nothing about the industry. :p

As for SH, and his Science, BSE has nothing to do with science except for the best science that can make money for the company or the guy using it that day.

Elwapo - the sale we were at was Hirshe Herefords and the average is only for the media anyway. When a 1/2 interest in a yearling bull sells for $135,000.00 average means nothing. Weonly caught the last 40 minutes of the sale, but I would guess that 10 to 15 pretty darn good bulls passed in that time alone.

Randy it's posts like this that get you into trouble. Where did anyone say 50% of purebred ops in Canada might go down? Just because I used a phrase that could be twisted to think I could be happy if that happened is even more ridiculous.

Personally, Hirshe is the only PB outfit I know of that needed American money to survive. That could be related to events prior to BSE for all we know. Operations failed before May 2003.

Can you say in 23 years you have never made money from real estate? All you earnings are from cattle? I really don't care if you have oil money, gas wells or windmills. If you really knew this business you would know very few people make the majority of their income from purebred cattle. Most feed cattle, farm big acres, have big commercial herds, do a business on the side, or the cattle are their business on the side.

In fact other than myself I don't know of 1 purebred operation that is a stand alone. Is that unfair? I could care less. My responsibility is to provide for my family.

You had a good sale despite the BSE concerns, that shows you have a product people are willing to use. Good for you. I have always said I would rather see people use a good bull of a different breed than one that should have been steered.

However with your Celtic beef you have shown a need or desire for more money...then sit and complain how tough the beef side of our industry is. I know how tough it is. I have been selling direct as long as you.

If we complain about the big boys getting bigger we need to understand why they are getting bigger. Every industry is getting bigger. Companies cannot survive if they don't have enough volume. That being said more volume at a loss puts them down faster too.

Take GM for instance. They are talking bankruptcy. They are huge. Things got out of control. No scams. No fraud, just got too big to manage it all. The same thing can/ might happen to Tyson, Cargill, any large company that doesn't manage well. Then again they might just keep growing. Fiat is a good example of a very large company that as far as I know has little trouble going on.

Would it be nice to have the good old days where a man could raise his family on 100 cows? You bet, but looking after 100 cows isn't even a full time job anymore. Why should ranchers work part time and make the same as some guy doing 40-50 hrs of manual labor per week?

All SH, Agman, myself and others want to get across is there is no conspiracy. This is life. Deal.
 

Econ101

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Jason said:
rkaiser said:
Gee Jason, according to your "just as many survived statement", I guess 50% of purebred breeders in Canada going down isn't a problem to you.

I would not be that pessimistic. Most have survived, but have burned up a pile of equity.

Like you Jason, and unfortunately for you, I will survive. Only our 6th annual bull sale, but sold every one of our thirty five bulls last March with a $2566 average. I have not received an off farm cheque for 23 years and never had my farm nor the business handed to me on any silver platter. But according to you and good old SH, I know nothing about the industry. :p

As for SH, and his Science, BSE has nothing to do with science except for the best science that can make money for the company or the guy using it that day.

Elwapo - the sale we were at was Hirshe Herefords and the average is only for the media anyway. When a 1/2 interest in a yearling bull sells for $135,000.00 average means nothing. Weonly caught the last 40 minutes of the sale, but I would guess that 10 to 15 pretty darn good bulls passed in that time alone.

Randy it's posts like this that get you into trouble. Where did anyone say 50% of purebred ops in Canada might go down? Just because I used a phrase that could be twisted to think I could be happy if that happened is even more ridiculous.

Personally, Hirshe is the only PB outfit I know of that needed American money to survive. That could be related to events prior to BSE for all we know. Operations failed before May 2003.

Can you say in 23 years you have never made money from real estate? All you earnings are from cattle? I really don't care if you have oil money, gas wells or windmills. If you really knew this business you would know very few people make the majority of their income from purebred cattle. Most feed cattle, farm big acres, have big commercial herds, do a business on the side, or the cattle are their business on the side.

In fact other than myself I don't know of 1 purebred operation that is a stand alone. Is that unfair? I could care less. My responsibility is to provide for my family.

You had a good sale despite the BSE concerns, that shows you have a product people are willing to use. Good for you. I have always said I would rather see people use a good bull of a different breed than one that should have been steered.

However with your Celtic beef you have shown a need or desire for more money...then sit and complain how tough the beef side of our industry is. I know how tough it is. I have been selling direct as long as you.

If we complain about the big boys getting bigger we need to understand why they are getting bigger. Every industry is getting bigger. Companies cannot survive if they don't have enough volume. That being said more volume at a loss puts them down faster too.

Take GM for instance. They are talking bankruptcy. They are huge. Things got out of control. No scams. No fraud, just got too big to manage it all. The same thing can/ might happen to Tyson, Cargill, any large company that doesn't manage well. Then again they might just keep growing. Fiat is a good example of a very large company that as far as I know has little trouble going on.

Would it be nice to have the good old days where a man could raise his family on 100 cows? You bet, but looking after 100 cows isn't even a full time job anymore. Why should ranchers work part time and make the same as some guy doing 40-50 hrs of manual labor per week?

All SH, Agman, myself and others want to get across is there is no conspiracy. This is life. Deal.

Jason, there was no conspiracy huh? I guess that is how you define conspiracy. You claim out of one side of your mouth that if there is but two buyers, was it, then there was a competitive market. When Canada lost its biggest buyer producers in Canada got a taxpayer handout. Is that not socialism? You posted before that they had more than two buyers.

You might want to give the value of your investment up for nothing, but many people don't. If a rancher has lived and worked on his ranch and paid for it so what if he doesn't have to work as hard as a manual laboror that has no investment.

Saying there is no conspiracy when all the little rules, regulatory agencies, and powers of government are being harnassed by the big boys is a little naive. Can you not see the forest for the trees? Wake up.

You need to do some of that reading I suggested.
 
A

Anonymous

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Elementary: "Saying there is no conspiracy when all the little rules, regulatory agencies, and powers of government are being harnassed by the big boys is a little naive."

Making empty statements like this without one stitch of supporting proof is more than a little naive, it's complete ignorance.



~SH~
 

Sandhusker

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I don't believe there is a conspiracy - just the expected results of "donations" to political candidates & parties.
 

Econ101

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Sandhusker said:
I don't believe there is a conspiracy - just the expected results of "donations" to political candidates & parties.

I stand corrected, Sandhusker.

Jason can call it whatever he likes.
 

Jason

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In Canada there are campaign limits placed on donations.

Tyson and Cargill are said to support right wing parties but the Liberals are left wing and they were the ones who paid the subsidy.

The subsidy was a knee jerk response. It had to get out fast and it did. Tyson/Cargill were banned from any further subsidies.

Those corporations pay tax on profits, 19% in Canada, so if they were 30M in the black due to subsidy money they paid back 19% of it already.

Others argue they just plow it back into new facilities to gain greater control, but tax laws only allow depreciation on new or expanded capital expenditures. Computer equipment for example has to be depreciated not just written off.

Some conspiracy, the gov't goofed trying to help us out fast. Big corps pay taxes. We get services sometimes enough sometimes not.
 

Sandhusker

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I don't care how much you give me, Jason, I'll be glad to give 19% of it back in a few months. Do you want my mailing address to send a check? :wink:
 

Jason

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Tell ya what sandy, I'll send you $100 you send me 19% of your profits. Bank earnings and all. Oh yeah I'll need a copy of your income tax to prove it too.
 

Sandhusker

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Jason said:
Tell ya what sandy, I'll send you $100 you send me 19% of your profits. Bank earnings and all. Oh yeah I'll need a copy of your income tax to prove it too.

If I can show a loss, can I get a credit?
 

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