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Is the Government Going to Euthanize your Grandmother?

A

Anonymous

Guest
One of the foremost advocates of expanding Medicare end-of-life planning coverage is Johnny Isakson, a Republican Senator from Georgia. He co-sponsored 2007's Medicare End-of-Life Planning Act and proposed an amendment similar to the House bill's Section 1233 during the Senate HELP Committee's mark-up of its health care bill. I reached Sen. Isakson at his office this afternoon. He was befuddled that this had become a question of euthanasia, termed Palin's interpretation "nuts," and emphasized that all 50 states currently have some legislation allowing end-of-life directives.

But the rightwingernuts will continue to believe what they were told by their "handlers" -- that this is a mass euthanasia of the elderly and feebled- and keep promoting that interpretation in their fearmongering and hatemongering.....

Even after I showed them where the Senate bill version was introduced by one of the most conservative members of the Senate- Senator Coburn- who is an MD....
 

don

Well-known member
care is rationed under private insurance. the treatment you get is determined by how comprehensive a policy you can afford to buy. if you can afford to spend ten or twelve per cent of gdp under a private system go for it. if the american economy shrinks further you may see healthcare facilities shutting down just as hypo posted the article about the vancouver island facility. if people are laid off, lose their coverage and can't afford to maintain their level of care it will reduce demand for some facilities and have the same effect as government cutbacks.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
don said:
care is rationed under private insurance. the treatment you get is determined by how comprehensive a policy you can afford to buy. if you can afford to spend ten or twelve per cent of gdp under a private system go for it. if the american economy shrinks further you may see healthcare facilities shutting down just as hypo posted the article about the vancouver island facility. if people are laid off, lose their coverage and can't afford to maintain their level of care it will reduce demand for some facilities and have the same effect as government cutbacks.

don-- thats what most of the rightwingernut screamers don't seem to realize or understand--most insurance carriers (except in an emergency) now require you to call ahead and get prior authorization for any medical procedures you have done--- and if they refuse to authorize them you either pay the medical provider cash up front first- or they don't get done...
And as was brought up in the Congressional Hearings- who would be most apt to withhold expensive medical testing/treatments- a private insurance group looking at their profits-- or a panel made up of Medical Doctors and Professionals seeking to have a standardized top of the line health care system.... :???:
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Ridiculous Leftist Argument: "There is no death panel. She's a liar."

Governor Palin provided numerous references to support her statement on the existence of a death panel as proposed by this bill. Of course the bill does not use that term specifically, and some who like to play semantics have made hay over that. This is not about parsing words or the definition of what "is" is. The point is, the bill will result in bureaucrats making decisions as to who gets treated and how the patient gets treated.

Obama's health care bill would result in placing a price tag on the value of each person's life and treating according to who they believe would be the most productive members of society. That is tantamount to having a death panel and forms the basis of Governor Palin using that term.

Why do some people hate Health Maintenance Organization (HMO) plans? Because you have some bureaucrat insurance adjuster making treatment decisions. But, an HMO is a private entity. Some HMOs are better than others, and because they're market-driven, there is a limit to the ghastliness of their decision-making process. If you don't like being in an HMO, you can insure with a Preferred Provider Organization (PPO), take a traditional indemnity plan, or some other form of health insurance. If you work at a job with benefits, most employers allow you to choose from multiple insurers, usually one of each major type.

With Obama's health care bill, the federal government is the HMO and it is perfectly clear from the sources Governor Palin referenced: their planning milieu discriminates against the elderly, the disabled and the very young, based on their relative worth to society.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck....it's a duck. The panel of bureaucrats making life and death decisions based on a person's worth to society is in fact a death panel and had its origins in Nazi Germany.

See Governor Palin's extensive reference list here:
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
don said:
care is rationed under private insurance. the treatment you get is determined by how comprehensive a policy you can afford to buy. if you can afford to spend ten or twelve per cent of gdp under a private system go for it. if the american economy shrinks further you may see healthcare facilities shutting down just as hypo posted the article about the vancouver island facility. if people are laid off, lose their coverage and can't afford to maintain their level of care it will reduce demand for some facilities and have the same effect as government cutbacks.

Care is only rationed in the sense that you get what you pay for. Obamacare is going to cut payments to hospitals and doctors, which means when less is paid, less is received. This isn't Liberal Land, goods and services don't appear via wishes. That means rationing. That means prioritizing. Who do you think will have the highest priority, the 30 year old or Grandpa?
 

Nalen

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
don said:
care is rationed under private insurance. the treatment you get is determined by how comprehensive a policy you can afford to buy. if you can afford to spend ten or twelve per cent of gdp under a private system go for it. if the american economy shrinks further you may see healthcare facilities shutting down just as hypo posted the article about the vancouver island facility. if people are laid off, lose their coverage and can't afford to maintain their level of care it will reduce demand for some facilities and have the same effect as government cutbacks.

don-- thats what most of the rightwingernut screamers don't seem to realize or understand--most insurance carriers (except in an emergency) now require you to call ahead and get prior authorization for any medical procedures you have done--- and if they refuse to authorize them you either pay the medical provider cash up front first- or they don't get done...
And as was brought up in the Congressional Hearings- who would be most apt to withhold expensive medical testing/treatments- a private insurance group looking at their profits-- or a panel made up of Medical Doctors and Professionals seeking to have a standardized top of the line health care system.... :???:

Bottom line is that healthcare does need serious reform. Everyone with a brain knows that. But the government should not be the ones to run this. It should be the doctors. My IDEA is a healthcare system where we the people elect a doctor to oversee healthcare. And set term limits on them the same as a president. He would oversee the entire healthcare system. Make sure that rates stay affordable so the average American family can afford healthcare for his or her family. But if people choose not to get healthcare that is the road they choose. But if something happens they are stuck with the bill. We the people should not have to support those who feel that things should be free. It's called tough love. Thats what America needs. Since when should the president be appointing Czars. Last I remember wasn't that a russian word for those who were appointed by their "leader"????? Doesn't anyone else find even the terminology a little disturbing? No one person should be able to appoint anyone. I for one would be willing to go to the polling booth to cast my vote for every position that the president is making up. Wouldn't you?? It's our country we need to take it back. "Of the People, by the People, FOR THE PEOPLE."
Have these words lost all meaning? Not to me and I hope not for you either liberal and conservative alike should be thinking the same thing. Use your head people.

Sorry to ramble but I get just a bit fired up at people just complaining and doing nothing but that. STAND UP AND BE HEARD FOR CHRIST SAKE!!!! DO SOMETHING.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
one thing with Government being involved, there is more room for them to pick the winners or losers.

You don't have to look any further than Obama's Economic advisor Jeffrey Immelt.

I brought this up quite awhile ago, but GE is going to profit immensely off this Health Care reform. They are already, through the media bias they are providing. media spots (propaganda) for ObamaCare were planned months ago.

I don't think replacing one private industry (insurance), is going to do anything for excessive profits, waste or Government favoritism, if you just replace them or compete with them, with a Government mandated corp. like GE.

I'll start another thread with GE's connections to the Health Care reform.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Nalen said:
Oldtimer said:
don said:
care is rationed under private insurance. the treatment you get is determined by how comprehensive a policy you can afford to buy. if you can afford to spend ten or twelve per cent of gdp under a private system go for it. if the american economy shrinks further you may see healthcare facilities shutting down just as hypo posted the article about the vancouver island facility. if people are laid off, lose their coverage and can't afford to maintain their level of care it will reduce demand for some facilities and have the same effect as government cutbacks.

don-- thats what most of the rightwingernut screamers don't seem to realize or understand--most insurance carriers (except in an emergency) now require you to call ahead and get prior authorization for any medical procedures you have done--- and if they refuse to authorize them you either pay the medical provider cash up front first- or they don't get done...
And as was brought up in the Congressional Hearings- who would be most apt to withhold expensive medical testing/treatments- a private insurance group looking at their profits-- or a panel made up of Medical Doctors and Professionals seeking to have a standardized top of the line health care system.... :???:

Bottom line is that healthcare does need serious reform. Everyone with a brain knows that. But the government should not be the ones to run this. It should be the doctors. My IDEA is a healthcare system where we the people elect a doctor to oversee healthcare. And set term limits on them the same as a president. He would oversee the entire healthcare system. Make sure that rates stay affordable so the average American family can afford healthcare for his or her family. But if people choose not to get healthcare that is the road they choose. But if something happens they are stuck with the bill. We the people should not have to support those who feel that things should be free. It's called tough love. Thats what America needs. Since when should the president be appointing Czars. Last I remember wasn't that a russian word for those who were appointed by their "leader"????? Doesn't anyone else find even the terminology a little disturbing? No one person should be able to appoint anyone. I for one would be willing to go to the polling booth to cast my vote for every position that the president is making up. Wouldn't you?? It's our country we need to take it back. "Of the People, by the People, FOR THE PEOPLE."
Have these words lost all meaning? Not to me and I hope not for you either liberal and conservative alike should be thinking the same thing. Use your head people.

Sorry to ramble but I get just a bit fired up at people just complaining and doing nothing but that. STAND UP AND BE HEARD FOR CHRIST SAKE!!!! DO SOMETHING.

I don't think anyone in government called them a "Czar"- nor is that the title given them in the legislation....The first I heard the "Czar" name mentioned was by the rightwingernuts in their fearmongering- and backslapping of the insurance industry....

And just like every other position in a representative form of a Republic- they are to be appointed by the President- need confirmation by the Senate and will oversee a panel made up of Healthcare Professionals from all segments of the Health Providers...

So Nalen- you are one of the ones that support that those that can't afford or just go without insurance should just be thrown onto the street corner to die.... :???:

How about those that have preexisting conditions that can't get any insurance-- or those who lose their jobs- and insurance- and then can't get any private carrier to cover them :???:

And as I said in my post to Silver-- the intention of this board is not to limit services provided under the health care plans (both private and public) but setting a standard for a minimum that must be provided- and continulally updating that minimum- especially for the many new treatments- that most insurance companies now refuse to pay for....Essentially improving and extending the amount of care that insurance providers must provide and cover if someones Doctor thinks it correct treatment or needed....Giving the treatment decisions back to your Doctor, rather than in the hands of the Insurance company like they are now....
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
And just like every other position in a representative form of a Republic- they are to be appointed by the President- need confirmation by the Senate and will oversee a panel made up of Healthcare Professionals from all segments of the Health Providers...

czar's do not go through any Senate approval process, they only answer to the Prseident.

you never heard of the Car czar, that left his post just recently?


There are now about 40 czars

There's a drug czar, a U.S. border czar, an urban czar, a regulatory czar, a stimulus accountability czar, an Iran czar, a Middle East czar, and a czar for both Afghanistan and Pakistan, which in Washington-speak has been lumped together into a policy area called Af-Pak.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE54S5U120090529?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
hypocritexposer said:
And just like every other position in a representative form of a Republic- they are to be appointed by the President- need confirmation by the Senate and will oversee a panel made up of Healthcare Professionals from all segments of the Health Providers...

czar's do not go through any Senate approval process, they only answer to the Prseident.

you never heard of the Car czar, that left his post just recently?


There are now about 40 czars

There's a drug czar, a U.S. border czar, an urban czar, a regulatory czar, a stimulus accountability czar, an Iran czar, a Middle East czar, and a czar for both Afghanistan and Pakistan, which in Washington-speak has been lumped together into a policy area called Af-Pak.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE54S5U120090529?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0

Go read the bill- this position heading up the panel requires Senate confirmation...
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
I don't need to read anymore of the bill, it's lacking, that's why there are so many questions. They can't answer the questions, because they do not have the answers.

It's like the "cash for clunkers program", not thought out, no cost/benefit analysis, or escape plan. Just throw money at the problem.

They are writing this as a Social program, when they need to be looking at it as a Business. Where is the Business plan?

Any time you attempt to address a complex problem, with a complex solution you must begin with the basics of formulating that solution within a time tested framework, so as not to destroy the organization. In this case, the organization is the United States of America. The plan should thus flow as follows.

1. State your premise
2. Define specific solutions to the problems you are trying to address
3. Define clearly the methodology for implementing the solution
4. Analyze potential costs/benefits
5. Perform risk assessment
6. Create a fall back plan



• There is little effort at addressing the change in demand, and consequently supply, once the plan is implemented.

• This change in demand will necessarily affect the entire pricing and cost structure of businesses, which is also not addressed. This will logically lead to massive job loss in low profit margin markets like manufacturing.

• There is no risk assessment strategy for the plan, and pilot testing exists for relatively few components of the plan

• There is no escape hatch. If the plan fails, and ends up costing four or five times the current estimates, we are stuck with it.
 

Nalen

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Nalen said:
Oldtimer said:
don-- thats what most of the rightwingernut screamers don't seem to realize or understand--most insurance carriers (except in an emergency) now require you to call ahead and get prior authorization for any medical procedures you have done--- and if they refuse to authorize them you either pay the medical provider cash up front first- or they don't get done...
And as was brought up in the Congressional Hearings- who would be most apt to withhold expensive medical testing/treatments- a private insurance group looking at their profits-- or a panel made up of Medical Doctors and Professionals seeking to have a standardized top of the line health care system.... :???:

Bottom line is that healthcare does need serious reform. Everyone with a brain knows that. But the government should not be the ones to run this. It should be the doctors. My IDEA is a healthcare system where we the people elect a doctor to oversee healthcare. And set term limits on them the same as a president. He would oversee the entire healthcare system. Make sure that rates stay affordable so the average American family can afford healthcare for his or her family. But if people choose not to get healthcare that is the road they choose. But if something happens they are stuck with the bill. We the people should not have to support those who feel that things should be free. It's called tough love. Thats what America needs. Since when should the president be appointing Czars. Last I remember wasn't that a russian word for those who were appointed by their "leader"????? Doesn't anyone else find even the terminology a little disturbing? No one person should be able to appoint anyone. I for one would be willing to go to the polling booth to cast my vote for every position that the president is making up. Wouldn't you?? It's our country we need to take it back. "Of the People, by the People, FOR THE PEOPLE."
Have these words lost all meaning? Not to me and I hope not for you either liberal and conservative alike should be thinking the same thing. Use your head people.

Sorry to ramble but I get just a bit fired up at people just complaining and doing nothing but that. STAND UP AND BE HEARD FOR CHRIST SAKE!!!! DO SOMETHING.

I don't think anyone in government called them a "Czar"- nor is that the title given them in the legislation....The first I heard the "Czar" name mentioned was by the rightwingernuts in their fearmongering- and backslapping of the insurance industry....

And just like every other position in a representative form of a Republic- they are to be appointed by the President- need confirmation by the Senate and will oversee a panel made up of Healthcare Professionals from all segments of the Health Providers...

So Nalen- you are one of the ones that support that those that can't afford or just go without insurance should just be thrown onto the street corner to die.... :???:

How about those that have preexisting conditions that can't get any insurance-- or those who lose their jobs- and insurance- and then can't get any private carrier to cover them :???:

And as I said in my post to Silver-- the intention of this board is not to limit services provided under the health care plans (both private and public) but setting a standard for a minimum that must be provided- and continulally updating that minimum- especially for the many new treatments- that most insurance companies now refuse to pay for....Essentially improving and extending the amount of care that insurance providers must provide and cover if someones Doctor thinks it correct treatment or needed....Giving the treatment decisions back to your Doctor, rather than in the hands of the Insurance company like they are now....

Alright smart guy what would you say if I told you I don't have insurance? Would that burst your little bubble about me saying that those without or who can't afford it just be thrown to the curb to die. What I said was they get treated but pay the bill off over time. Much like a car loan but without interest. If I am provided a service I feel obligated to pay it back. Thats what seperates me from the "give me more free sh*t, I'm an American and I deserve it" crowd. If God forbid something happens and I need the care I plan on payin it back, not welching like liberals feel they should be able to do. People have a choice, thats what this whole thing is about. Can't you see that. I don't have insurance because I don't feel I need it right now. I'm young and in good health and do the things to stay that way when I hit 35 I plan on getting it. But the many should not be taxed for the few who feel that they do not need to pay the ridiculous amounts for insurance. Open up state borders and let insurance companies compete for business and you will see an enormous drop in the prices of coverage. That would be a huge first step towards real reform.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Nalen said:
Oldtimer said:
Nalen said:
Bottom line is that healthcare does need serious reform. Everyone with a brain knows that. But the government should not be the ones to run this. It should be the doctors. My IDEA is a healthcare system where we the people elect a doctor to oversee healthcare. And set term limits on them the same as a president. He would oversee the entire healthcare system. Make sure that rates stay affordable so the average American family can afford healthcare for his or her family. But if people choose not to get healthcare that is the road they choose. But if something happens they are stuck with the bill. We the people should not have to support those who feel that things should be free. It's called tough love. Thats what America needs. Since when should the president be appointing Czars. Last I remember wasn't that a russian word for those who were appointed by their "leader"????? Doesn't anyone else find even the terminology a little disturbing? No one person should be able to appoint anyone. I for one would be willing to go to the polling booth to cast my vote for every position that the president is making up. Wouldn't you?? It's our country we need to take it back. "Of the People, by the People, FOR THE PEOPLE."
Have these words lost all meaning? Not to me and I hope not for you either liberal and conservative alike should be thinking the same thing. Use your head people.

Sorry to ramble but I get just a bit fired up at people just complaining and doing nothing but that. STAND UP AND BE HEARD FOR CHRIST SAKE!!!! DO SOMETHING.

I don't think anyone in government called them a "Czar"- nor is that the title given them in the legislation....The first I heard the "Czar" name mentioned was by the rightwingernuts in their fearmongering- and backslapping of the insurance industry....

And just like every other position in a representative form of a Republic- they are to be appointed by the President- need confirmation by the Senate and will oversee a panel made up of Healthcare Professionals from all segments of the Health Providers...

So Nalen- you are one of the ones that support that those that can't afford or just go without insurance should just be thrown onto the street corner to die.... :???:

How about those that have preexisting conditions that can't get any insurance-- or those who lose their jobs- and insurance- and then can't get any private carrier to cover them :???:

And as I said in my post to Silver-- the intention of this board is not to limit services provided under the health care plans (both private and public) but setting a standard for a minimum that must be provided- and continulally updating that minimum- especially for the many new treatments- that most insurance companies now refuse to pay for....Essentially improving and extending the amount of care that insurance providers must provide and cover if someones Doctor thinks it correct treatment or needed....Giving the treatment decisions back to your Doctor, rather than in the hands of the Insurance company like they are now....

Alright smart guy what would you say if I told you I don't have insurance? Would that burst your little bubble about me saying that those without or who can't afford it just be thrown to the curb to die. What I said was they get treated but pay the bill off over time. Much like a car loan but without interest. If I am provided a service I feel obligated to pay it back. Thats what seperates me from the "give me more free sh*t, I'm an American and I deserve it" crowd. If God forbid something happens and I need the care I plan on payin it back, not welching like liberals feel they should be able to do. People have a choice, thats what this whole thing is about. Can't you see that. I don't have insurance because I don't feel I need it right now. I'm young and in good health and do the things to stay that way when I hit 35 I plan on getting it. But the many should not be taxed for the few who feel that they do not need to pay the ridiculous amounts for insurance. Open up state borders and let insurance companies compete for business and you will see an enormous drop in the prices of coverage. That would be a huge first step towards real reform.

But we already are paying for you- or those like you that end up in an accident or with a catastrophic illness-- and no matter what they say- couldn't pay it off in their lifetimes...We pay because these bills have to be wrote off- and the cost is added to the charges the health care providers charge those that do have insurance or can pay- so in return the insurance companies raise the cost for their insurance to make up for the higher cost health care charges...
Complete CATCH-22.....

And I don't know where you will find a hospital that doesn't charge interest- in fact most are filing suit for a total judgement if you miss one payment....Like I've said- the number of cases just coming thru my rural court has probably increased 250% in the last few years...And all those that they get judgements against- now have a big red X across their credit ratings for anything they wish to purchase any time from now til they get the bill paid off-- which many couldn't do in a lifetime....

I saw a young guy the other day that was in his 30's- perfect health- never been sick a day--athletic-- dropped over unconcious and not breathing....Luckily some folks that knew CPR were right there- got to hospital- stabilized- flown to major hospital- had numerous bypass's- and then to top it got a staph infection- and ended up in the hospital for another week....Luckily he has insurance thru his work--but if he didn't I'd estimate his bill to be pushing $300,000 to half a mill...

Remember Stran Smith- the young PRCA calf roper that had a stroke shortly after he and Jennifer were married... :???:

And some of those that have had to go thru several cancer surgeries and chemo treatments in their fight against that wicked disease have had bills in Millions $... Many of those were not even adults yet....

I think you are stupidly playing with fire- and your future- let alone gambling with mine and responsible folks finances...
 

hopalong

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Nalen said:
Oldtimer said:
I don't think anyone in government called them a "Czar"- nor is that the title given them in the legislation....The first I heard the "Czar" name mentioned was by the rightwingernuts in their fearmongering- and backslapping of the insurance industry....

And just like every other position in a representative form of a Republic- they are to be appointed by the President- need confirmation by the Senate and will oversee a panel made up of Healthcare Professionals from all segments of the Health Providers...

So Nalen- you are one of the ones that support that those that can't afford or just go without insurance should just be thrown onto the street corner to die.... :???:

How about those that have preexisting conditions that can't get any insurance-- or those who lose their jobs- and insurance- and then can't get any private carrier to cover them :???:

And as I said in my post to Silver-- the intention of this board is not to limit services provided under the health care plans (both private and public) but setting a standard for a minimum that must be provided- and continulally updating that minimum- especially for the many new treatments- that most insurance companies now refuse to pay for....Essentially improving and extending the amount of care that insurance providers must provide and cover if someones Doctor thinks it correct treatment or needed....Giving the treatment decisions back to your Doctor, rather than in the hands of the Insurance company like they are now....

Alright smart guy what would you say if I told you I don't have insurance? Would that burst your little bubble about me saying that those without or who can't afford it just be thrown to the curb to die. What I said was they get treated but pay the bill off over time. Much like a car loan but without interest. If I am provided a service I feel obligated to pay it back. Thats what seperates me from the "give me more free sh*t, I'm an American and I deserve it" crowd. If God forbid something happens and I need the care I plan on payin it back, not welching like liberals feel they should be able to do. People have a choice, thats what this whole thing is about. Can't you see that. I don't have insurance because I don't feel I need it right now. I'm young and in good health and do the things to stay that way when I hit 35 I plan on getting it. But the many should not be taxed for the few who feel that they do not need to pay the ridiculous amounts for insurance. Open up state borders and let insurance companies compete for business and you will see an enormous drop in the prices of coverage. That would be a huge first step towards real reform.

But we already are paying for you- or those like you that end up in an accident or with a catastrophic illness-- and no matter what they say- couldn't pay it off in their lifetimes...We pay because these bills have to be wrote off- and the cost is added to the charges the health care providers charge those that do have insurance or can pay- so in return the insurance companies raise the cost for their insurance to make up for the higher cost health care charges...
Complete CATCH-22.....

And I don't know where you will find a hospital that doesn't charge interest- in fact most are filing suit for a total judgement if you miss one payment....Like I've said- the number of cases just coming thru my rural court has probably increased 250% in the last few years...And all those that they get judgements against- now have a big red X across their credit ratings for anything they wish to purchase any time from now til they get the bill paid off-- which many couldn't do in a lifetime....

I saw a young guy the other day that was in his 30's- perfect health- never been sick a day--athletic-- dropped over unconcious and not breathing....Luckily some folks that knew CPR were right there- got to hospital- stabilized- flown to major hospital- had numerous bypass's- and then to top it got a staph infection- and ended up in the hospital for another week....Luckily he has insurance thru his work--but if he didn't I'd estimate his bill to be pushing $300,000 to half a mill...

Remember Stran Smith- the young PRCA calf roper that had a stroke shortly after he and Jennifer were married... :???:

And some of those that have had to go thru several cancer surgeries and chemo treatments in their fight against that wicked disease have had bills in Millions $... Many of those were not even adults yet....

I think you are stupidly playing with fire- and your future- let alone gambling with mine and responsible folks finances...

If your judgments on credit issues has increased 250% then if you had 10 per yr 3 yrs, you now have 2500????? is there that many people in your jurisdiction defaulting?????
 

Mike

Well-known member
Bottom line is that healthcare does need serious reform. Everyone with a brain knows that

Healthcare in the USA does not need reform. The "PRICES" charged for healthcare is what needs reform.

The gov't is too involved now. Get them out of the picture and prices will subside.

Plus, if health insurance were handled like a savings plan, and people were to scrutinize doctor bills, hospital charges, etc., they would shop for the best prices and increase competition to lower charges.

There is no need for a doctor to charge $10,000.00 to $15,000.00 for a 30 minute back surgery (example), especially when he has a dozen or so lined up for one morning's work.

It's not the care getting out of hand, it's the charges getting out of hand.
 

backhoeboogie

Well-known member
Mike said:
Some may think that Fatman is exaggerating, but in reality he's a liar. :lol:

The old saying goes, "Until the fat lady sings" Not man.

The singing wouldn't bother me much. It is the repetitive whining that gets annoying :D

Beating Palin up over and over :D

"I love him and I don't care if he's not eligible....."

"Life's not fair"

ETc etc. Can they just offer something besides emotion and tears?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I expect no less than just namecalling from those that cultistly follow the party of "NO"....Altho even Bush recognized what a major problem health care/health care insurance costs were- made it his number one campaign promise (number one reason I voted for him because I also think it is the major issue the US faces)- and then like so many of his promises, he and the Repub controlled Congress did nothing about it...

So now I think the Dems have earned the right to try and do the job GW and the 14 year Repub controlled Congress wouldn't/couldn't do....

Since 2000 alone, cost of average family premiums have increased 83 percent.

Now I don't know about any of you- but in this part of the country- income- especially farm/ranch income hasn't increased 83% in the past 8 years... Health Care costs now take up 15.3 % of our GDP (the highest in the world- when our health care return was rated 37th in the world) .... And the CBO and economists have said that if changes aren't made these cost will continue to rise faster in a steamroll fashion with our Healthcare cost soon topping 20% of the GDP- and making US industry even less capable of competing in the global market...

The reason one of the more conservative Senators- Hatch of Utah- has often said "DOING NOTHING IS NO LONGER AN OPTION".....
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Mike said:
Some may think that Fatman is exaggerating, but in reality he's a liar. :lol:

Could this statement be one of the many that you are refering to?

Oldtimer said:
And I don't know where you will find a hospital that doesn't charge interest- in fact most are filing suit for a total judgement if you miss one payment

OT is making stuff up again, I would be willing to Bet the farm that NO hospital in America files suit over one missed payment and for sure not "MOST". Most times you can go months or years upon years before a Hospital starts suing you!

OT is just flat out lying to try to make his point!
 
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