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Mrs.Greg

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KATHY WROTE:

Mrs. Greg, you stated that you knew an individual who may be suffering from chemical poisoning due to open cab spraying,

I have heard of a gentleman, who is from East Central AB who has been striken by "West Nile Virus" supposedly, and this man is now in a wheel chair, so I am told. When I spoke with, and attended meetings, for the Special Areas Advisory Council, back in the grasshopper infestation years, this same now wheelchair bound man openly commented on how he had sprayed his crop with pesticides (for the grasshopper infestation) multiple times in one year.

I would hope that this pesticide toxicity would not go unresearched, as a potential cause of his debilitation. Organophosphates and other chemicals (which farmers rely far too heavily on), are damaging our immune systems and central nervous systems. I want nothing more than for all possible hypotheses to be examined

MRS.GREG Wrote:
Kathy,I don't know the guy your talking about but if your talking Special Areas hes prob in our county.
Most of these brain type illnesses can't be diagnosed until autopsy,I know that to be true of the ones in our county that the final outcome was the spray chemical in open tractors,I wasn't one of the nurses that worked these cases ,I just remember the staff meeting this was identified at.
As for our very close friend...the Dr's have exhausted all the possible tests,last I heard he has a pet scan set up but that really only shows where the damage is,really not the result.The guys that the final results were spray,were first diagnosed with Alzhiemers but then they were showing signs of a differnt kind of brain damage,the regression wasn't the same.

Chemical damage can show up in different ways...phsically or with brain damage. I really wish people would think before they use ANY type of chemical.And if they do,use the proper protection.
 

hillsdown

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Mrs.Gregg Wrote:
I really wish people would think before they use ANY type of chemical.And if they do,use the proper protection.

I agree there are to many "anomalties?" that we do not know about, the permanent lung damage alone should be reason enough to always use every precaution when spraying .Maybe we should all go back to the days of "organic" farming.
 

Kathy

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Mrs. Greg,

I found this Canadian patent by doctors in the USA. They are suggesting that by administering specific metal chelators/drugs and/or antioxidants into the upper 1/3 of the nasal cavity, the compound will by-pass the blood brain barrier and reach the brain more readily. This manner of trafficing the compound directly to the brain, eliminates alot of side effects from loading up the rest of the body in order to get sufficient quatities in the brain. You may want to look up the inventors/applicants. They may be able to suggest some protocol to try.

link:

http://patents.ic.gc.ca/cipo/cpd/en/patent/2576049/summary.html

METHODS FOR PROVIDING NEUROPROTECTION FOR THE ANIMAL CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM AGAINST THE EFFECTS OF ISCHEMIA, NEURODEGENERATION, TRAUMA, AND METAL POISONING
Canadian patent #CA2576049

Abstract
Methods for preconditioning and/or providing neuroprotection to the animal brain against cerebral ischemic and neurodegenerative effects, including cognitive, behavioral and physical impairments that often accompany Methods and pharmaceutical compositions for preconditioning and/or providing neuroprotection to the animal central nervous system against the effects of ischemia, trauma, metal poisoning and neurodegeneration, including the associated cognitive, behavioral and physical impairments. In one embodiment, the method is accomplished by stimulating and stabilizing hypoxia-inducible factor-1.alpha. (HIF-1.alpha.). HIF-1.alpha. is known to provide a neuroprotective benefit under ischemic conditions. Patients at risk for certain diseases or disorders that are associated with risk for cerebral ischemia may benefit, e.g., those at risk for Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, Wilson's disease or stroke or those patients having head or spinal cord injury. Patients undergoing certain medical procedures that may result in ischemia may also benefit. Initially, the possibility of ischemia or neurodegeneration is recognized. Intranasal therapeutic agents are administered to the upper third of the nasal cavity to bypass the blood-brain barrier and access the central nervous system directly to avoid unwanted and potentially lethal side effects. Therapeutic agents include those substances that interact with iron and/or copper such as iron chelators, copper chelators, and antioxidants. A particular example of such therapeutic agents is the iron chelator deferoxamine (DFO). Intranasal administration of DFO is known to stimulate and/or stabilize HIF-1.alpha. and provides an efficient and safe method for pre-conditioning the brain to protect against cerebral ischemia. Moreover, DFO is shown to decrease weight loss in subjects when administered pre and/or post stroke.

HEALTHPARTNERS RESEARCH FOUNDATION (United States)
 

bse-tester

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Here is one for Kathy - yup, it's Christmas spirit that rules.
What is Chelation Therapy?

Chelation therapy is the use of a chelating agent or agents to aid in the removal of heavy metals from the body that act as toxins.

Then and Now

Chelation therapy was first widely used for medicinal purposes in response to chemical warfare used in World War I. Dimercaprol (British Anti-Lewisite, or BAL) was the first widely used chelating agent as a cure for Lewisite, the arsenic based poison gas. After World War II there was an outbreak of lead poisoning in the Navy among personnel who repainted the hulls of navy ships. The toxicity of the lead in these paints led to the use of EDTA as a lead chelating agent. EDTA differs from dimercaprol because it is a synthetic amino acid and contains no mercaptans. During the 1960’s, DMSA replaced BAL as well as EDTA, making it the US Standard of Care for the treatment of heavy metal toxicity caused by heavy metals as lead, arsenic, and mercury. Currently, DMSA is still the US Standard of Care.

Most Prevalent Chelating Agents

The most commonly used chelating agents today are :

Dimercaptosuccinic acid (DMSA)
EDTA (usually in its calcium disodium form)
Dimercapto-propane sulfonate (DMPS)
Alpha lipoic acid (ALA)
Diethylene triamine pentaacetic acid (DTPA)
Dimercaprol (BAL)
The Chemistry Involved

DMSA and BAL – both dithiols, bind metals through adjacent –SH groups, much like the proteins the metals would otherwise bind to in vivo. DMSA, specifically, can cross the blood-brain barrier and is used to sequester heavy metals in brain.



DMSA BAL

EDTA – widely used to sequester divalent and trivalent metal ions, chelates metals through four carboxylate and two amine groups.



EDTA

Chelation Therapy as an Alternative Medicine?

Chelation therapists frequently claim that environmental and man-made exposures to heavy metals are common. Some examples of these exposures would be through contact with treated lumber, pesticides, herbicides, rodent poisons, contaminated seafood, paint, dental fillings, and mercury in vaccines. Chelation therapists claim that they can treat a wide array of problems from heavy metal poisoning to heart disease and autism. But do their claims have any merit?

Problems with Chelation Therapy Theories and Practices

The scientific theories these chelation therapists provide are not very solid. However, the problem is they sound reasonable in the absence of significant chemistry knowledge. Another big problem with alternative practice chelation therapists is the lack of reliability in the tests they use to identify heavy metal poisoning. Because reliable tests are so expensive, alternative practitioners rely on heavy metal identification in samples such as hair, nails, and urine. The problem is that the heavy metal content of these samples is so easily skewed from things like shampoo or a recent meal containing a common food high in heavy metals like fish. Two of the most common claims for chelation therapy today are its usefulness in the treatment of atherosclerosis and its treatment of autism.

Chelation Therapy and Atherosclerosis

Many chelation therapists claim that EDTA can be used to chelate calcium in the walls of arteries and will therefore slow or reverse atherosclerotic build up. Some of the problems with this theory are that it’s difficult for the EDTA to access the calcium that’s already part of the atherosclerotic plaque because EDTA is only effective in chelating extracellular heavy metals. Also, there is a substantial amount of extracellular calcium under normal physiological conditions and EDTA would most likely bind this calcium before it got near any atherosclerotic plaque. Another problem with this theory is that EDTA has a higher affinity for some other metals in the body such as iron and zinc. The formation constant for an EDTA-iron complex is five orders of magnitude greater than that of an EDTA-calcium complex and the formation constant of an EDTA-zinc complex is six orders of magnitude greater than that of an EDTA-calcium complex. Even another problem with the theory is that compared to cholesterol, calcium plays a minor role in the accumulation of atherosclerotic plaque.


A study performed at the University of Calgary reported that cardiac patients who received chelation therapy were no better off than those patients who received a placebo treatment. Also, zinc levels drop dramatically as a result of EDTA chelation and without proper replacement over the months of treatment, there is potential for very harmful side effects such as impairment of immune function and precancerous cellular mutations. The NIH started enrolling participants in 2003 for a study on EDTA chelation therapy as a treatment option for coronary atherosclerosis to try and help clear things up once and for all. This study should conclude in 2008.

Chelation Therapy and Autism

There are also chelation therapists who claim that autism can be caused by heavy metal poisoning and can be alleviated through chelation therapy. Autism is normally diagnosed in children before the age of three, when certain behaviors and impairments are observed in the child, usually around the age of one or two. Autism is most commonly linked to lead, usually through lead based paint in homes that these children are suspected to have put in their mouths, but lately attempts have been made to link autism to mercury in vaccines that young children receive.


In a laboratory study on rats at Cornell, young rats that had high levels of lead benefited from chelation therapy. However, the rats that had no lead in their system, but were still treated with the chelating agents showed the same declines in learning and behavior as those rats that were exposed to lead and not treated. This is an instance where chelation therapy could be a valid treatment for repeated or acute lead exposure; however the tests used by chelation therapists are not reliable enough to warrant this kind of treatment.


One of the more recent cases involving chelation therapy gone awry is in the case of an alternative practitioner in Pennsylvania that has been charged with involuntary manslaughter following the death of a five year old autistic boy who went into cardiac arrest fifty minutes after starting a chelation therapy with EDTA that resulted in hypocalcaemia. This is only one of the instances in which a death has been attributed to chelation therapy and is one of the biggest reasons that The National Council Against Health Fraud believes that chelation therapy should be banned as an unethical practice and chelation therapy of autistic children should be considered child abuse.

Conclusion

What it comes down to is that in the hands of a professional that has access to reliable tests, chelation therapy can be a viable option for someone suffering from heavy metal toxicity. However, alternative practitioners do not have access to these tests and should not be trusted when proposing chelation therapy as a treatment for exposure to heavy metals.
 

Kato

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Does the live test have a low rate of false positives?
Does it show a result at an early stage of the disease?

I for one think that if this had been approved and moved on a few years ago, and we had done widespread testing, we could have eliminated this disease, and the risk of it completely by now.

Then we could get on with our lives.
 

bse-tester

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As far as the initial testing completed at the US Prion lab, the test passed with flying colors - no false positives.

It showed 100% accuracy.

As for the early stage detection -

The test will identify the presence of PrPsc in any animal or human that has contracted the disease and to clarify this statement:

If PrPsc is present within the "Host" it will be present in the vascular system and it will show up in secreted urine. The test will identify PrPsc in as little as one (1) ml of urine from an infected host and will identify the presence of PrPsc long before any visible signs of clinical symptoms appear.

This last fact is extremely important in that the test will allow for those animals that are confirmed carriers of BSE to be then pulled from the herd prior to slaughter. This will save the slaughterhouse many many headaches in that they will not have to shut down the kill floor to sanitize their facility as the infected animals did not make it to the floor to begin with. That is one reason out of many reasons to test live animals.

Of course, the Packers don't care because they only test the obviously sick anyway so how many infected with early stage BSE that are showing no visible or clinical manifestations are killed and processed as healthy and pass into the human food chain????? That is the question that should be asked and if anyone thinks that the current surveillance program is good enough, they need to get out from under that sand-pile and take a real good look at what the potential really is for BSE to pass unnoticed into the human food chain.
 

RobertMac

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bse-tester said:
If PrPsc is present within the "Host" it will be present in the vascular system and it will show up in secreted urine. The test will identify PrPsc in as little as one (1) ml of urine from an infected host and will identify the presence of PrPsc long before any visible signs of clinical symptoms appear.

Does that mean SRM removal only reduces the concentration of prions?
 

Kato

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This last fact is extremely important in that the test will allow for those animals that are confirmed carriers of BSE to be then pulled from the herd prior to slaughter.

Oh Oh..... There it is! The reason governments will resist a live test. It will come to a point where the decision will have to be made as to who pays for these animals, and I bet they don't want to be the ones to do it. :? :? :? I bet when all is said and done though, there aren't enough animals to break their budgets, even though it wouldn't take many to break ours. :shock:

This is what the real battle will be over in the end. Money. :( :( It's going to take a real effort from a lot of commited people to make widespread live testing happen. I think it would be worth it though, if it could get this disease into the history book, where it belongs.
 

Tex

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Kato said:
This last fact is extremely important in that the test will allow for those animals that are confirmed carriers of BSE to be then pulled from the herd prior to slaughter.

Oh Oh..... There it is! The reason governments will resist a live test. It will come to a point where the decision will have to be made as to who pays for these animals, and I bet they don't want to be the ones to do it. :? :? :? I bet when all is said and done though, there aren't enough animals to break their budgets, even though it wouldn't take many to break ours. :shock:

This is what the real battle will be over in the end. Money. :( :( It's going to take a real effort from a lot of commited people to make widespread live testing happen. I think it would be worth it though, if it could get this disease into the history book, where it belongs.

You are right, Kato, it should have already been in the history books!!!
 
A

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Kato said:
This last fact is extremely important in that the test will allow for those animals that are confirmed carriers of BSE to be then pulled from the herd prior to slaughter.

Oh Oh..... There it is! The reason governments will resist a live test. It will come to a point where the decision will have to be made as to who pays for these animals, and I bet they don't want to be the ones to do it. :? :? :? I bet when all is said and done though, there aren't enough animals to break their budgets, even though it wouldn't take many to break ours. :shock:

This is what the real battle will be over in the end. Money. :( :( It's going to take a real effort from a lot of commited people to make widespread live testing happen. I think it would be worth it though, if it could get this disease into the history book, where it belongs.

Kato- just think how many live tests (or test of any kind) could have been made with the Billions $ the Canuck government has already thrown at it- including all that Packer pocket stuffing they did to help the Tyson boys get their multimillion $ bonuses :roll: :wink: :lol:
 

cure

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I agree with what Mr.Sandhusker says 100%and one other thing Mrs Greg how can you be so narrow minded. We have the technology now days to invent tests for BSE why not use them, why not be able to test animals on your own, why not be proud of what you are selling and not just going on a hope and a pray that you are not selling a BSE infected animal. The way I look at it this kind of a problem could happen to anyone at any time I would sooner be safe than sorry.
BSE Tester I wish you the best of luck on your test and I am sorry that you have choosen to leave you will be missed.
 

bse-tester

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RoberMac wrote:



Does that mean SRM removal only reduces the concentration of prions?

SRM removal will remove those areas within the host animal that are supposedly holding an higher concentration of prions (PrPsc) but of course, SRM removal doesn't remove all of the deadly prions. The body of that animal in which PrPsc is found within the SRM will, in turn have PrPsc throughout the entire body of the animal. Consider the fact that we are finding PrPsc in the blood, brain, spinal fluid, kidneys etc. and this then leads to our test finding PrPsc in the urine. The blood travels throughout the entire body and provides nourishment to all cells within that body so those who say that PrPsc is not to be found anyhwere but the SRM are barking up the wrong tree completely and know nothing about that which they speak - period!!!
 

RobertMac

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bse-tester said:
RoberMac wrote:



Does that mean SRM removal only reduces the concentration of prions?

SRM removal will remove those areas within the host animal that are supposedly holding an higher concentration of prions (PrPsc) but of course, SRM removal doesn't remove all of the deadly prions. The body of that animal in which PrPsc is found within the SRM will, in turn have PrPsc throughout the entire body of the animal. Consider the fact that we are finding PrPsc in the blood, brain, spinal fluid, kidneys etc. and this then leads to our test finding PrPsc in the urine. The blood travels throughout the entire body and provides nourishment to all cells within that body so those who say that PrPsc is not to be found anyhwere but the SRM are barking up the wrong tree completely and know nothing about that which they speak - period!!!

Thanks, I thought Tim might need that clarification!!! :wink: :)
 

Sandhusker

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RobertMac said:
bse-tester said:
RoberMac wrote:



Does that mean SRM removal only reduces the concentration of prions?

SRM removal will remove those areas within the host animal that are supposedly holding an higher concentration of prions (PrPsc) but of course, SRM removal doesn't remove all of the deadly prions. The body of that animal in which PrPsc is found within the SRM will, in turn have PrPsc throughout the entire body of the animal. Consider the fact that we are finding PrPsc in the blood, brain, spinal fluid, kidneys etc. and this then leads to our test finding PrPsc in the urine. The blood travels throughout the entire body and provides nourishment to all cells within that body so those who say that PrPsc is not to be found anyhwere but the SRM are barking up the wrong tree completely and know nothing about that which they speak - period!!!

Thanks, I thought Tim might need that clarification!!! :wink: :)

You see this, MRJ?
 

TimH

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Sandhusker said:
RobertMac said:
bse-tester said:
RoberMac wrote:





SRM removal will remove those areas within the host animal that are supposedly holding an higher concentration of prions (PrPsc) but of course, SRM removal doesn't remove all of the deadly prions. The body of that animal in which PrPsc is found within the SRM will, in turn have PrPsc throughout the entire body of the animal. Consider the fact that we are finding PrPsc in the blood, brain, spinal fluid, kidneys etc. and this then leads to our test finding PrPsc in the urine. The blood travels throughout the entire body and provides nourishment to all cells within that body so those who say that PrPsc is not to be found anyhwere but the SRM are barking up the wrong tree completely and know nothing about that which they speak - period!!!

Thanks, I thought Tim might need that clarification!!! :wink: :)

You see this, MRJ?

:D :D :D :D That's it ,boys!!! Line up behind the "prion industry" people who suggest that eating beef is dangerous. That is obviously your choice.
You guys should ask bse-tester a couple simple questions.......#1- Will the SRM removal requirements be dropped if and when 100% testing is mandated?
#2- Do researchers use "sirloin steak" homogenate or "brain homogenate", when conducting transmission studies, and WHY???

Maybe Sir Ronald will be kind enough to wow us colonial types with simple answers to these simple questions.
:D :D :D :D :D :D
 

RobertMac

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TimH said:
Sandhusker said:
RobertMac said:
Thanks, I thought Tim might need that clarification!!! :wink: :)

You see this, MRJ?

:D :D :D :D That's it ,boys!!! Line up behind the "prion industry" people who suggest that eating beef is dangerous. That is obviously your choice.
You guys should ask bse-tester a couple simple questions.......#1- Will the SRM removal requirements be dropped if and when 100% testing is mandated?
#2- Do researchers use "sirloin steak" homogenate or "brain homogenate", when conducting transmission studies, and WHY???

Maybe Sir Ronald will be kind enough to wow us colonial types with simple answers to these simple questions.
:D :D :D :D :D :D

Tim, we are aligning with someone that hopefully will give the beef industry a chance to eliminate bse and get this monkey off our back. Both your questions are irrelevant if the test works!!!!!!
 

TimH

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RobertMac said:
TimH said:
Sandhusker said:
You see this, MRJ?

:D :D :D :D That's it ,boys!!! Line up behind the "prion industry" people who suggest that eating beef is dangerous. That is obviously your choice.
You guys should ask bse-tester a couple simple questions.......#1- Will the SRM removal requirements be dropped if and when 100% testing is mandated?
#2- Do researchers use "sirloin steak" homogenate or "brain homogenate", when conducting transmission studies, and WHY???

Maybe Sir Ronald will be kind enough to wow us colonial types with simple answers to these simple questions.
:D :D :D :D :D :D

Tim, we are aligning with someone that hopefully will give the beef industry a chance to eliminate bse and get this monkey off our back. Both your questions are irrelevant if the test works!!!!!!

:shock: Whether or not SRM removal is discontinued if testing is implemented is "irrelevant"??? :shock: :shock:

Are you friggin' serious??? :???: :D :D :D
 

bse-tester

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RobertMac wrote:

Whether or not SRM removal is discontinued if testing is implemented is "irrelevant"???

TimH wrote:

Are you friggin' serious???


The fact is, it is the government(s) that make that decision and simply because a test is available to ensure that the product is safe and free of BSE would negate the need to remove SRM's is not the point. The point is whether or not the government of the day would discontinue what would then become a useless practice.

If the test has been accepted by the authorities and mandated throughout the world as the test for BSE, then once an animal has passed through the testing protocol and proven to be BSE free then it can be declared to have been tested for BSE and catagorically declared to have no sign of the disease in the carass whatsoever. It then follows that the removal of SRM's will be considered a mute point and would likely also be declared an unnecessary expense of time and money on the line.

As for the other point regarding the use of muscle tissue and/or brain tissue in homogenate for prion testing:

The point that prions are not found in muscle tissue is perhaps one of the more moronic statements that TImH has repeatedly made as part of his misguided attacks on prion research. - hence his use of the term "Sirloin Steak" and he has convinced himself that the only means of removing ALL PrPsc from the carcass is to remove all SRM's and that by doing so will render the carcass free of PrPsc.

SRM removal will take out those areas of the carcass that are known to hold concentrations of PRPsc but will not eradicate PrPsc from the carcass completely. Once PrPsc has replicated enough to manifest itself in sufficient numbers within the SRM's, it is absolutely going to be found in all other tissues throughout the body. Perhaps it will not be found in such numbers as is found in SRM's but it will be found nonetheless. To count on only SRM removal is courting tragedy on a huge scale and to put it mildly, utterly stupid.

Perhaps TimH can answer these questions:

How does the PrPsc manage to concentrate itself in SRM's and not in muscle tissue as he is so convinced??

Why is PrPsc, according to TimH, not found in muscle tissue?

Is PrPsc evident in the blood in an infected animal?

How does PrPsc travel within the host animal?

How many PrPsc does it take to declare an animal infected?

Can PrPsc be found in the vascular and lymphatic system of the animal?

What is the typical incubation period in cattle Vs. Human hosts?

Would Timh eat "Sirloin Steak" from a "PrPsc Positive" carcass after all of the SRM's have been removed?
 

RobertMac

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TimH said:
RobertMac said:
TimH said:
:D :D :D :D That's it ,boys!!! Line up behind the "prion industry" people who suggest that eating beef is dangerous. That is obviously your choice.
You guys should ask bse-tester a couple simple questions.......#1- Will the SRM removal requirements be dropped if and when 100% testing is mandated?
#2- Do researchers use "sirloin steak" homogenate or "brain homogenate", when conducting transmission studies, and WHY???

Maybe Sir Ronald will be kind enough to wow us colonial types with simple answers to these simple questions.
:D :D :D :D :D :D

Tim, we are aligning with someone that hopefully will give the beef industry a chance to eliminate bse and get this monkey off our back. Both your questions are irrelevant if the test works!!!!!!

:shock: Whether or not SRM removal is discontinued if testing is implemented is "irrelevant"??? :shock: :shock:

Are you friggin' serious??? :???: :D :D :D
I've come to believe that relevance is a hard concept for some to understand, but reread my post and take note of the words in bold. If the test works and BSE animals are eliminated from reaching the processor, why require SRM removal????
 

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