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IT'S BEEN ONE HELLUVA FIGHT

FIGHT ON OR GIVE UP ?

  • FIGHT ON!!!

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  • GIVE IT UP!!

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  • UNDECIDED

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A

Anonymous

Guest
Mike: "How were animals that were under 30 months that tested positive found to be "POSITIVE" if the tests won't reveal? Some were 24 months or under.

"Would Not" gives no wiggle room. Your statement is a blatant lie!"

Your examples doesn't prove a damn thing Mike.

These animals "SUPPOSEDLY" less than 24 months of age WERE NOT CONFIRMED with the same tests that confirmed that some of our false positives were actually negatives. They could have easily been false positives as well. USDA STATED THAT THESE CASES WERE NOT CONFIRMED with the same testing methodology that we use BUT HEY, MIKE KNOWS MORE THAN USDA DOES.

If my statement was a "BLATANT LIE" as you claim, WHY THE HELL DID CREEKSTONE'S FIELDING ADMIT THAT "BSE TESTED DOES NOT MEAN BSE FREE"??? WHERE IS THE CONFIRMED BSE POSITIVES IN THE US AND CANADA THAT ARE UNDER 24 MONTHS OF AGE????

Hmmm???? Well, ah...geee....ah....

A 23 Month Holstein that could be a "false positive" is a hell of a long ways from a 12 - 14 month old beef animal testing positive.

You "illusionists" make me sick.

IF JAPAN WAS DEMANDING BSE TESTED BEEF, THEY WOULD NOT HAVE ACCEPTED NON BSE TESTED BEEF.

Creating an "ILLUSION" is as bad as lying. Both are deceptive and you certainly fit that same mold Mike.

As if you, Mike, know more about BSE testing than the agency taxed with that responsibility. Your arrogance knows no bounds.



~SH~
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sandbag: "Dig around all month, you'll never find R-CALF calling for no imports."


Yet another deceptive illusion.

If a dumping case against Canada and calling their beef "CONTAMINATED" and "HIGH RISK" due to having BSE in their native herd is not calling for no imports, what the hell is it?

OH, IT'S JUST CALLING FOR NO CANADIAN IMPORTS BELOW OUR COST OF PRODUCTION AND NO CANADIAN IMPORTS AFTER HAVING BSE IN THEIR NATIVE HERD.

Silly me! I should have known better.

Keep creating those illusions oh "MASTER OF ILLUSION".


~SH~
 

Mike

Well-known member
These animals "SUPPOSEDLY" less than 24 months of age WERE NOT CONFIRMED with the same tests that confirmed that some of our false positives were actually negatives. They could have easily been false positives as well. USDA STATED THAT THESE CASES WERE NOT CONFIRMED with the same testing methodology that we use BUT HEY, MIKE KNOWS MORE THAN USDA DOES.




The confirmatory tests were WB, SH. The same tests that we use for confirmation today. You know. ........the test that produced the positive on the Texas cow that the USDA screwed up on?? WB has never had a false positive, ever.

The USDA now recognizes the 8th and 9th cases (21 and 23 month old) in
Japan were positive. It must be YOU that knows more than the USDA. :roll:

Why do you think that the USDA allowed 21 months of age to be the cut-off date in shipping to Japan? DUH!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Mike: "Why do you think that the USDA allowed 21 months of age to be the cut-off date in shipping to Japan? DUH!"

Why do you think the OIE cutoff for testing is 30 months? DUH!

Keep selling that "ILLUSION" of safety Mike, I'd expect nothing less.


~SH~
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Explain the "OTM" and "UTM" distinction Mike, explain it.

Must have been something someone just dreamed up huh? LOL!

You bet Mike, you bet!


~SH~
 

Mike

Well-known member
~SH~ said:
Explain the "OTM" and "UTM" distinction Mike, explain it.

Must have been something someone just dreamed up huh? LOL!

You bet Mike, you bet!


~SH~

For testing? Are you saying no UTM cattle have been tested?



SH: Why do you think the OIE cutoff for testing is 30 months?

This is what you said. Care to explain that too? Triple DUH!
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
~SH~ said:
Sandbag: "Dig around all month, you'll never find R-CALF calling for no imports."


Yet another deceptive illusion.

If a dumping case against Canada and calling their beef "CONTAMINATED" and "HIGH RISK" due to having BSE in their native herd is not calling for no imports, what the hell is it?

OH, IT'S JUST CALLING FOR NO CANADIAN IMPORTS BELOW OUR COST OF PRODUCTION AND NO CANADIAN IMPORTS AFTER HAVING BSE IN THEIR NATIVE HERD.

Silly me! I should have known better.

Keep creating those illusions oh "MASTER OF ILLUSION".


~SH~

You're the illusion master due to your bias and/or reading comprehension problems. :roll: :lol: :lol:

Anti-dumping concerns the cost of production of the shipper, not the destination. You want to "debate" trade when you don't even know a basic concept like dumping? Good grief. :roll:

Why is R-CALF calling Canadian beef unsafe? Don't you think the USDA having a zero-tolerance policy that was used 22 consecutive times might of had something to do with it? What was that telling us about a country that has BSE, SH?
 

Mike

Well-known member
SH:WHY THE HELL DID CREEKSTONE'S FIELDING ADMIT THAT "BSE TESTED DOES NOT MEAN BSE FREE"???

You've got to admit that beef that was tested would come much closer to being BSE FREE than what the NCBA and AMI proposed :

HOW'S THIS FOR A GOOD LAUGH?

December 10, 2001

Honorable Ann M. Veneman
Secretary of Agriculture
U.S. Department of Agriculture
Washington, D.C. 20250

Dear Secretary Veneman:

As you know, the discovery of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) in Japan is continuing to contribute to a huge market loss for U.S. beef exporters, processors and producers. This dramatic drop in exports is, of course, being translated into significantly lower U.S. cattle prices and contributing to an overall decline in U.S. agricultural exports.

All facets of the beef industry have worked closely in an effort to restore Japanese consumer confidence and revitalize this market. USDA officials have been extremely cooperative and have provided excellent information and representation on this issue both in the U.S. and Japan. The entire industry is extremely appreciative of these efforts.

The technical information supplied by USDA's Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service has been helpful in providing assurance to the Japanese meat trade that US beef products are safe. We also very much appreciate the work done by the Department, including your personal involvement, in connection with the recently released Harvard Risk Assessment.

Our beef exports to Japan, however, continue to be severely depressed. To assist in restoring confidence in U.S. beef, Japanese importers of our beef have strongly recommended that a formal "BSE Free" statement be included on all export certificates issued for shipments of U.S. beef to Japan. The U.S. beef industry fully agrees with this recommendation.

Accordingly, we request that USDA provide appropriate language on all export certificates indicating that rigorous monitoring and testing have demonstrated that BSE is not present in the U.S. cattle herd. We are confident that the inclusion of such a statement on each export certificate will help restore Japanese consumer confidence in U.S. beef, rebuild this critically important market, and strengthen U.S. cattle prices.

Thank you for the support you have provided. We would greatly appreciate your assistance on this additional matter.

Sincerely,



American Meat Institute
National Cattlemen's Beef Association
U.S. Meat Export Federation
 

Murgen

Well-known member
Why is R-CALF calling Canadian beef unsafe? Don't you think the USDA having a zero-tolerance policy that was used 22 consecutive times might of had something to do with it? What was that telling us about a country that has BSE, SH?

This has been, but discussed before, but here goes again....

Until BSE was found in North America, the US and Canada felt that the safeguards in place were a barrier to BSE being introduced to North America.

Obviously they needed some "tweeking', or they were not implemented soon enough. BSE had already been introduced at the time of the safeguards being put in place. This is obvious now, with the ages of cows found with BSE.

At the point of the first case of BSE, risk in either country became the same, due to trade and management practises in place.

Once both countries improved their firewalls, there became no greater risk, from importing from a country with similar risk.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe this was the same procedure in Europe.

As for an effective feed ban, both countries did not have a recall on feed made before the feedban date, so neither country had a totally effective feedban. Both the US and Canada enforced the feedban in the same manner, with the US having more infractions than Canada.

[/quote]
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Murgen said:
As for an effective feed ban, both countries did not have a recall on feed made before the feedban date, so neither country had a totally effective feedban. Both the US and Canada enforced the feedban in the same manner, with the US having more infractions than Canada.

But how long are we supposed to believe Canadians left feed laying around in bins or feedstores :???: The last Canadian cow was born 3 years after the feedban was put in place...

R-CALF claimed they could prove in court that the Canadian feedban was being violated- but noone with USDA/NCBA/CFIA/CCA wanted to see that evidence presented in court and blocked it....That alone raises big questions in my mind...I'd like to see these people testifying under oath rather than issuing random PR press statements.......
 

Murgen

Well-known member
R-CALF claimed they could prove in court that the Canadian feedban was being violated- but noone with USDA/NCBA/CFIA/CCA wanted to see that evidence presented in court and blocked it....That alone raises big questions in my mind...I'd like to see these people testifying under oath rather than issuing random PR press statements

Maybe they could, but I can easliy prove that there are violations within the US also!

When you keep talking about an effective feed ban, what's your definition?

Do you believe the US's feedban has been effective?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Murgen said:
R-CALF claimed they could prove in court that the Canadian feedban was being violated- but noone with USDA/NCBA/CFIA/CCA wanted to see that evidence presented in court and blocked it....That alone raises big questions in my mind...I'd like to see these people testifying under oath rather than issuing random PR press statements

Maybe they could, but I can easliy prove that there are violations within the US also!

File a suit... Oh I forgot the Courts say that whatever USDA says is unchallengeable- there is no judicial recourse to their decisions :shock: ... So that means that when they say that we have no BSE in the US thats the way it is- and when they say our feedban has worked thats got to be Gospel... :wink:
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Murgen, "At the point of the first case of BSE, risk in either country became the same, due to trade and management practises in place. "

I don't buy that for a second, Murgen. You're picking up one of SH's endearing traits - confusing wishes with reality. If anybody had seen our risks from that angle, our export markets would of closed when Canada first got BSE. That didn't happen. Obviously, our trading partners saw us as seperate and different risks.
 

Murgen

Well-known member
They saw both countries as the same risk, but did not have the justification to close the border with the US, until their worries were confirmed.

Any country that did not see both as having the same risk, were incorrect I guess. The risk factors were exactly the same, and that was proven with the finding of a BSE cow in the US.

And that cow was present all the while that Canada was already regarded as a BSE country. (same risk)

Borders don't close between 2 countries until a BSE cow is found, but that does not mean the risk is not the same.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Mike: "Are you saying no UTM cattle have been tested?"

Mike, is USDA currently testing UTM cattle in the US and Canada for BSE?

Yes or no?

If so, what percentage in relation to OTM cattle?

Watch the diversion dance..........

BSE testing cattle, with currently accepted testing methodology, that are mostly 12 - 14 months old will not reveal bse prions, PERIOD! The "SUPPOSED" unconfirmed exception does not make the rule. Obviously the Japanese government is more concerned about age verification than bse testing since that is the route they are going.

Perhaps Japan needs bse testing advocates like you to set them straight.........ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz!


Sandbag: "Anti-dumping concerns the cost of production of the shipper, not the destination."

When that phony argument didn't work TO STOP CANADIAN IMPORTS, R-CULT moved onto the BSE argument and that dog didn't hunt either.

Sucks to be so "factually void" doesn't it?


Sandbag: "Why is R-CALF calling Canadian beef unsafe?"

1. They're too ignorant to realize that calling Canadian beef contaminated due to having BSE in their native herd is the same as calling US beef contaminted due to our having bse in our native herd since the precautionary measures in each country are the same.

2. THEY WANT TO STOP CANADIAN IMPORTS WITH ANY EXCUSE THEY CAN COME UP WITH.

I'd say it's a combination of both.


Sandbag: "Don't you think the USDA having a zero-tolerance policy that was used 22 consecutive times might of had something to do with it?"

Hardly! R-CALF wants to stop Canadian imports, PERIOD! You fool noboby!


Sandbag: "What was that telling us about a country that has BSE, SH?"

To look at their precautionary measures to determine if their beef is safe. Like Leo said, if we have a case of bse, DUE TO OUR BSE PRECAUTIONARY MEASURES, we can look the consumers in the eye and tell them our beef is safe.

Can't apply a different standard to imports unless your a complete hypocrite. I guess that shoe fits doesn't it?

"FETCH" little ankle biter (throws stick)


~SH~
 

Tam

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
~SH~ said:
Sandbag: "Dig around all month, you'll never find R-CALF calling for no imports."


Yet another deceptive illusion.

If a dumping case against Canada and calling their beef "CONTAMINATED" and "HIGH RISK" due to having BSE in their native herd is not calling for no imports, what the hell is it?

OH, IT'S JUST CALLING FOR NO CANADIAN IMPORTS BELOW OUR COST OF PRODUCTION AND NO CANADIAN IMPORTS AFTER HAVING BSE IN THEIR NATIVE HERD.

Silly me! I should have known better.

Keep creating those illusions oh "MASTER OF ILLUSION".


~SH~

You're the illusion master due to your bias and/or reading comprehension problems. :roll: :lol: :lol:

Anti-dumping concerns the cost of production of the shipper, not the destination. You want to "debate" trade when you don't even know a basic concept like dumping? Good grief. :roll:

Why is R-CALF calling Canadian beef unsafe? Don't you think the USDA having a zero-tolerance policy that was used 22 consecutive times might of had something to do with it? What was that telling us about a country that has BSE, SH?

Thanks for admitting R-CALF is calling our beef unsafe but now tell us why R-CALF is claiming the US has the safest beef in the world due to the precautionary firewalls you have had for so many years. . Don't you think the US having BSE in their native herd might have something to do with you being a hypocrite if you think our beef and the beef of 22 other countries is unsafe and not exportable and yours is safe and should be forced on countries that don't want it . WE ALL HAVE BSE and in our case our precautionary firewalls were stronger than those you have or did you forget the chicken crap loophole among others? Either all the beef is unsafe including the world safest US beef, or we all have safe beef if the safety measure are carried out. Which I might add there are reports saying that they are not being carried out in the US. So doesn't that tell you that yours is probably a bit less safe than that of other BSE affected countries. :roll:
 

Bill

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Murgen said:
As for an effective feed ban, both countries did not have a recall on feed made before the feedban date, so neither country had a totally effective feedban. Both the US and Canada enforced the feedban in the same manner, with the US having more infractions than Canada.

But how long are we supposed to believe Canadians left feed laying around in bins or feedstores :???: The last Canadian cow was born 3 years after the feedban was put in place...

R-CALF claimed they could prove in court that the Canadian feedban was being violated- but noone with USDA/NCBA/CFIA/CCA wanted to see that evidence presented in court and blocked it....That alone raises big questions in my mind...I'd like to see these people testifying under oath rather than issuing random PR press statements.......
I wonder when the last American pail bunter nibbled out of the chicken feeder?

Yesterday?

It's only aquestion of when the first post-feed ban positive is announced in the US Oldtimer.
 

Bill

Well-known member
Murgen[b said:
"]They saw both countries as the same risk, but did not have the justification to close the border with the US, until their worries were confirmed. [/b]

Any country that did not see both as having the same risk, were incorrect I guess. The risk factors were exactly the same, and that was proven with the finding of a BSE cow in the US.

And that cow was present all the while that Canada was already regarded as a BSE country. (same risk)

Borders don't close between 2 countries until a BSE cow is found, but that does not mean the risk is not the same.

That is exactly what happened Murgen and only a fool would believe otherwise. Once those countries had confirmation on came the ban.

Risk is exactly the same in the US and Canada although it has been proven that the US has had an inferior tesing program (I prefer not to call it fraudulant). Hopefully they can get their act together so we can increase the amount of beef moving off this continent.
 

Tam

Well-known member
Bill said:
Oldtimer said:
Murgen said:
As for an effective feed ban, both countries did not have a recall on feed made before the feedban date, so neither country had a totally effective feedban. Both the US and Canada enforced the feedban in the same manner, with the US having more infractions than Canada.

But how long are we supposed to believe Canadians left feed laying around in bins or feedstores :???: The last Canadian cow was born 3 years after the feedban was put in place...

R-CALF claimed they could prove in court that the Canadian feedban was being violated- but noone with USDA/NCBA/CFIA/CCA wanted to see that evidence presented in court and blocked it....That alone raises big questions in my mind...I'd like to see these people testifying under oath rather than issuing random PR press statements.......
I wonder when the last American pail bunter nibbled out of the chicken feeder?

Yesterday?

It's only aquestion of when the first post-feed ban positive is announced in the US Oldtimer.

But it will not matter just like their pre feed ban cases. When they are ours there was hell to pay and restrictions to adhere to but all those restrictions just melt away when it is the US herd. We were to identify, find and destroy all cattle and feed sources and still have to but the US doesn't have to because their cases were PRE FEED BAN nobody is interested in them. It is truly amazing how fast attitudes change in the US when it is their herd. There seems to be a complete different set of rules for the US to those everyone else is to live up to.
 

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