It's Pretty Sad........And Some Good News, Too!!!!
- Thread starter Ranchy
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Hanta Yo
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We have a small 4-H fair 3rd week in July. ALL the animals go through ultrasound. Once upon a time our marine had a steer, got a red ribbon, but won the carcass contest. MCG is a super show person, spends the time "fitting" her steer unlike others who don't bother. This year we had a great judge, he's judged in the past but parents have complained about him spending too much time explaining things (go figure 
). His placings for the market beef were right on target with the ultrasound. We've had alot of judges who don't do as well.....but we have to take whom we can get.
It's sad to see politics involved in 4-H.
). His placings for the market beef were right on target with the ultrasound. We've had alot of judges who don't do as well.....but we have to take whom we can get.It's sad to see politics involved in 4-H.
Shortgrass
Well-known member
My wifes family was anti 4H because of the politics. She never did & didn't want to. I was in one year to show a horse that I really liked. Our 2 oldest daughters wern't interested & didn't & are well adjusted adults. Our youngest was excited about it and profited by the experience as did mom & dad. The politics are real and they are there, but lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater. I am grateful for our positive experience and recommend it for anyone interested. Some of our youthgroup boys are into shooting sports in 4H and are quite handy with firearms(shotgun or rifle). Others have sheep, hogs or even a goat! Several have table top projects. Jan & I have a friend of 4H award that we are quite proud of hanging in the living room. Ranchy if your personal home situation will allow you to be on the fair board, do it. Just put the kids first--its all about them--and you will be a very welcome and productive member.
sic 'em reds
Well-known member
I think the most important line in this thread was that it is a learning experience for the kids, and that they want to do it. Not a parent reliving or trying to relive their childhood.
That is what gets most people upset with these programs, the parents don't get the credit for "what they do" for their kids project. The worst ones are always the ones that do the work and try to give the kid the credit.
I have no problem in what anyone thinks about these types of programs, I just think they all deserve their due justice. It's the same thing as horse shows and junior rodeo. If the kid learns and gets justification for what they have accomplished, its all the same thing.
That is what gets most people upset with these programs, the parents don't get the credit for "what they do" for their kids project. The worst ones are always the ones that do the work and try to give the kid the credit.
I have no problem in what anyone thinks about these types of programs, I just think they all deserve their due justice. It's the same thing as horse shows and junior rodeo. If the kid learns and gets justification for what they have accomplished, its all the same thing.
Ranchy
Well-known member
You guys make some very valid points. Just need to clarify a few things that I failed to mention.
The Grands that I was talking about over the last 5 years, are from all the species excluding rabbits and poultry. Of course, the same family of kids usually win those Grands, too.......but they aren't involved with other species of animals. I think (and sometimes I'm guilty of it, too) that we tend to think only in terms of what we know. Al did chickens one year (I think it was his first) and did well at our fair with them. There were 2 other pens of chickens, and he got a blue ribbon, but then so did the other 2....... :lol:
Al is pleased with his placings, even though he was last in each group he showed in in the cattle. We really took into consideration, that if Bandi and Wheezer had been as old as the other cattle in their classes, he'd have done better. But they were anywhere from 4-6 months younger than the others. That's what happens when you decide to use dogies born in July, for a project animal. :lol:
Another thing I didn't mention, is the results of the State Bred Swine Show at the State Fair.........there were none, and I know for a fact, there were a couple of kids that placed in that show. But, again, wrong last name.
I just think that everyone should be mentioned, if they did something worth mentioning! That's really the point I was trying to make here. It just seems like there's too much political stuff involved, and it's sending our kids the wrong message.
The Grands that I was talking about over the last 5 years, are from all the species excluding rabbits and poultry. Of course, the same family of kids usually win those Grands, too.......but they aren't involved with other species of animals. I think (and sometimes I'm guilty of it, too) that we tend to think only in terms of what we know. Al did chickens one year (I think it was his first) and did well at our fair with them. There were 2 other pens of chickens, and he got a blue ribbon, but then so did the other 2....... :lol:
Al is pleased with his placings, even though he was last in each group he showed in in the cattle. We really took into consideration, that if Bandi and Wheezer had been as old as the other cattle in their classes, he'd have done better. But they were anywhere from 4-6 months younger than the others. That's what happens when you decide to use dogies born in July, for a project animal. :lol:
Another thing I didn't mention, is the results of the State Bred Swine Show at the State Fair.........there were none, and I know for a fact, there were a couple of kids that placed in that show. But, again, wrong last name.
I just think that everyone should be mentioned, if they did something worth mentioning! That's really the point I was trying to make here. It just seems like there's too much political stuff involved, and it's sending our kids the wrong message.
Faster horses
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Ranchy, I would say this to you. Kids take their cues from their parents.
If you don't make this anything but what it is, chances are Al won't either.
It is best to not be a parent that finds fault with what is going on. Lots of good people give lots of time and effort to youth activities and many times they get criticized, sometimes for just BEING THERE. (I know first-hand. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.)
Just take the postives and leave the negatives, because there are lots of positives in 4H and FFA.
If you don't make this anything but what it is, chances are Al won't either.
It is best to not be a parent that finds fault with what is going on. Lots of good people give lots of time and effort to youth activities and many times they get criticized, sometimes for just BEING THERE. (I know first-hand. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.)
Just take the postives and leave the negatives, because there are lots of positives in 4H and FFA.
katrina
Well-known member
I am sure there are good 4H projects and communities, but in my exsperiance I wouldn't have my kids in 4H....
I have seen first hand kids who did not place in the district 4h horse show mysteriously end up at the state horse show riding in an event they didn't even place in.......... A parent badgered the Extension agent till they let them to........
I've seen pigs brought to achievement day get loose and are so wild they can't catch them, so a parent goes home and brings more pigs to show.
I've seen dogs in the dog show with no grooming win blues and purples....
Need I go on???
Nope not for this family........
I have seen first hand kids who did not place in the district 4h horse show mysteriously end up at the state horse show riding in an event they didn't even place in.......... A parent badgered the Extension agent till they let them to........
I've seen pigs brought to achievement day get loose and are so wild they can't catch them, so a parent goes home and brings more pigs to show.
I've seen dogs in the dog show with no grooming win blues and purples....
Need I go on???
Nope not for this family........
A
Anonymous
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I'm glad some others are seeing the same thing as I have watched for years with 4-H and FFA...I've seen and heard all those same stories-with the fanciest horses and livestock bought for some kids (at a small fortune) that never even touched them- many that hired trainers and fitters-- then they stand out there and smile big when they win.... One gal that one the Red Robin one year had never even seen her steer or hog prior to Fair--didn't even know what color Daddy had bought her :roll:
But the worst I saw was this year...Apparently we had an honest Judge-- and none of the high mucky mucks in the counties kids (who usually win) took Grand Champion or Reserve in either the fat beef or the hogs...
Come market sale time tho, these mucky mucks kids-- (generally from the more wealthy families), beef and hogs brought way more than the Grand Champions or the Reserves did-- just cause the business's bidding were courting Daddy's business during the next year....Not right to those kids that worked hard and earned top honors
Maybe its an early lesson in the way this world is going-- it takes money to make money-- and in business you have to grease palms to come out on tops...
But the worst I saw was this year...Apparently we had an honest Judge-- and none of the high mucky mucks in the counties kids (who usually win) took Grand Champion or Reserve in either the fat beef or the hogs...
Come market sale time tho, these mucky mucks kids-- (generally from the more wealthy families), beef and hogs brought way more than the Grand Champions or the Reserves did-- just cause the business's bidding were courting Daddy's business during the next year....Not right to those kids that worked hard and earned top honors
Maybe its an early lesson in the way this world is going-- it takes money to make money-- and in business you have to grease palms to come out on tops...
CattleArmy
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I value 4-H. I think 4-H almost like any other organization has some downfalls and some people buy their way to the winners circle. But see my children aren't just there to win. They are there from March when they get their bucket calves feeding it and leading it and just bonding with it. They have to go take care of their calves even when it is cold and snowy out. Through this I feel they learn responsibility and they also learn to be dependable. "I know you don't want to wade down to the barn in the snow but do you want your calf to have an empty tummy all night?" They take care of the calves right up until fair and even after fair until we ween. At fair they learn how to conduct themselves in a manner appropriate for the situation and even public speaking when they answer judges questions. With bucket calves everyone at the clover kids age is a winner and really isn't getting a hard headed calf to lead a feat in itself?
cowzilla
Well-known member
4-H taught me how to care and be responsible for animals. nothing like going to the barn at 6am before jumping on a bus at 7:30 to go to school to build a good work ethic. Didn't win grand champon but with a bit of hard work and elbow grease did win Showmanship and Grooming a few times 8) Also learned a few tricks that go on at these Bull shows from my 4-H days :wink: Also learned that you always train yer calf to leed on the front lawn instead of the cow pasture that way yer not BELLY SURFIN through the COW PIES :roll: :roll: :roll:
Ranchy
Well-known member
BELLY SURFIN? :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yea, I know what ya mean. I learned a lot that I didn't know, when Al started doing the cattle thing in 4-H. I always wanted to do that when I was a member, but my folks never would let me. My dad had the idea that 4-H ruined more good kids and good horses than anything else ever did. He actually told my 4-H horse leader that........she just huffed away. Of course, dad's motto is Never Let The Truth Get In The Way Of A Good Story, too....... :twisted:
Yea, I know what ya mean. I learned a lot that I didn't know, when Al started doing the cattle thing in 4-H. I always wanted to do that when I was a member, but my folks never would let me. My dad had the idea that 4-H ruined more good kids and good horses than anything else ever did. He actually told my 4-H horse leader that........she just huffed away. Of course, dad's motto is Never Let The Truth Get In The Way Of A Good Story, too....... :twisted:
High Plains
Well-known member
Looks like some folks have had some distasteful expriences and won't have anything to do with the activity. Others have seen enough positive outcomes to overlook some of the bad things. The nice thing is, we all have the right to choose :!: Ahhh yes, America :!:
I have to take one last stab, though. I've seen some bad characters on ranchers.net, but I'm not swearing off the entire group. :wink:
Ha! Ha! I couldn't resist. I sure enjoy the conversations on this board. :wink:
Everybody have a great day!
HP
I have to take one last stab, though. I've seen some bad characters on ranchers.net, but I'm not swearing off the entire group. :wink:
Ha! Ha! I couldn't resist. I sure enjoy the conversations on this board. :wink:
Everybody have a great day!
HP