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Jobs Mexicans won't take.

Steve

Well-known member
Bottom Line: Eighty two percent of Mexican companies in a recent survey report they're having trouble filling jobs. Accounting, Factory workers, and laborers are in the most demand, Source:BusinessWeek

Maybe it's time for a few of our accountants, factory workers and laborers to slip into Mexico...
 

SHORTSTUFF

Well-known member
Too many of those Mexicans have been to the U.S. and we have them spoiled with the social services. Now they wont even work at home.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
The way you get workers for work you don't want to do is to pay them. If you don't get enough workers, you are not paying them enough.

Basic law of supply and demand.
 

Steve

Well-known member
The way you get workers for work you don't want to do is to pay them. If you don't get enough workers, you are not paying them enough.

only if you negate the incentive of becoming an American from the factor......wonder how much thats worth?
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Steve said:
The way you get workers for work you don't want to do is to pay them. If you don't get enough workers, you are not paying them enough.

only if you negate the incentive of becoming an American from the factor......wonder how much thats worth?

So what you are saying is that it is the U.S. economy that is the problem here?

I was watching the Senate debating what was happening with our free trade agreements. One of the senators made the observation that he had been down to Mexico, just minutes inside their border, and looked to see if the maquilla doras were really benefiting from NAFTA. The reasoning behind NAFTA was that with a free trade agreement, the U.S. would benefit from free trade, and the mexicans would benefit from jobs and a higher living standard.

What actually happened was a different story. In the GE maquilla dora, the average wage was ninety cents per hour. Going to the worker's house, the Senator saw that raw sewage ran down the street, and the whole family lived in an area in a house the size of most people's living room.

Instead of labor benefiting from NAFTA, and the whole mexican economy being lifted up in living standards, the companies, in this case, GE, benefited from moving its equipment from an area in the US where labor averaged over 13 dollars an hour, to an area where the average wage was 90 cents. The jobs the mexicans were doing were just the same as the ones that were being done in the US.

Mexico has no minimum wage law and few labor protections.

Is there any wonder why mexicans have a problem under this system? Is there any wonder why NAFTA was supported by big business? Is there any wonder why the working class in America has been losing in comparative wages? Is there any wonder why Mexicans still want to come to the U.S.?

Steve, the Chinese work for even less.
 

Steve

Well-known member
Econ101
So what you are saying is that it is the U.S. economy that is the problem here?

No....I didn't say that in any way or in any form....

What I clearly said was that given a choice between staying at home in Mexico working at the local factory.....or being lured to America with the promise of amnesty and American citizenship,..many Mexicans choose to come here instead.

in reference to the rest of your socialist bleeding heart comment....

Americans fought hard for workers rights....many dieing over strikes..if the Mexicans fought for their rights, Mexico could enjoy the same benefits.,..but no, they choose to come here and protest against our laws.


Econ101
What actually happened was a different story. In the GE maquilla dora, the average wage was ninety cents per hour.

What actually happened was a different story. The facts...

Average wages in Mexico's export-oriented maquiladoras sector are $1.73/ hour, vs. $2.17/ hour in the Mexican economy as a whole

While it is not a great wage it is .83 cents more then your quote,. and the factual average for the Mexican plants.,... add in that Mexicans with Jobs in these factories went from 42,000 to 407,000 and It paints different picture.

even though I am not in favor of Nafta...some 365,000 Mexicans were put to work...

How can a economist distort and miss so many facts?

http://home.alltel.net/bsundquist1/gcib.html
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Steve said:
Econ101
So what you are saying is that it is the U.S. economy that is the problem here?

No....I didn't say that in any way or in any form....

What I clearly said was that given a choice between staying at home in Mexico working at the local factory.....or being lured to America with the promise of amnesty and American citizenship,..many Mexicans choose to come here instead.

in reference to the rest of your socialist bleeding heart comment....

Americans fought hard for workers rights....many dieing over strikes..if the Mexicans fought for their rights, Mexico could enjoy the same benefits.,..but no, they choose to come here and protest against our laws.


Econ101
What actually happened was a different story. In the GE maquilla dora, the average wage was ninety cents per hour.

What actually happened was a different story. The facts...

Average wages in Mexico's export-oriented maquiladoras sector are $1.73/ hour, vs. $2.17/ hour in the Mexican economy as a whole

While it is not a great wage it is .83 cents more then your quote,. and the factual average for the Mexican plants.,... add in that Mexicans with Jobs in these factories went from 42,000 to 407,000 and It paints different picture.

even though I am not in favor of Nafta...some 365,000 Mexicans were put to work...

How can a economist distort and miss so many facts?

http://home.alltel.net/bsundquist1/gcib.html

I quoted a Senator who had personal experience, Steve, you didn't even quote your source. If you want to correct me, correct me on what I quoted not on something you pulled out of the air.

I don't know ere you got the 1.73 per hour, but no wonder GE made money. They made it off the labor, as you can see. I don't see why US companies should be able to send jobs overseas and then re import those products here while we have a trade deficit. I believe the trade deficit in total is over 4 trillion dollars. That is a lot of U.S. jobs that have gone overseas just so big companies can make a buck and other countries can subsidize our overspending government.

As far as putting Mexicans to work, they should be able to do a much better job than they have and the little NAFTA has done for them isn't worth the U.S. jobs lost.

I don't think you are right about most mexicans wanting to come over here for amnesty, they come over here because they have a government that is corrupt and has a huge bias to those with money and power. It causes them to have a harder life than what we have in the U.S. and they just want a better life. There is a huge disparity in wealth in their country. Instead of improving their situation, we seem to take advantage of it (or at least our companies have). Most mexicans just want to make more money. If they could do it in Mexico, they would.

Our problem is that instead of changing Mexico into becoming more like us, we are changing to become more like them.

I would hardly call that a socialist view; it is a view of reality.

For what reason are you calling me a socialist or do you just like to throw names out there?
 

Steve

Well-known member
Steve, you didn't even quote your source.

I did,... you even copied it in the Quote... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

But here it is again

http://home.alltel.net/bsundquist1/gcib.html

"If you want to correct me, correct me on what I quoted not on something you pulled out of the air." :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

you should heed your own words!

heed (hēd) pronunciation
v., heed·ed, heed·ing, heeds.
v.tr.
To pay attention to; listen to and consider: “He did not heed my gibes, and chattered on” (Sean O'Faolain).
v.intr.
To pay attention.
n.
Close attention; notice.

Your dismissed cadet,
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Steve said:
Steve, you didn't even quote your source.

I did,... you even copied it in the Quote... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

But here it is again

http://home.alltel.net/bsundquist1/gcib.html

"If you want to correct me, correct me on what I quoted not on something you pulled out of the air." :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

you should heed your own words!

heed (hēd) pronunciation
v., heed·ed, heed·ing, heeds.
v.tr.
To pay attention to; listen to and consider: “He did not heed my gibes, and chattered on” (Sean O'Faolain).
v.intr.
To pay attention.
n.
Close attention; notice.

Your dismissed cadet,

Steve, you have been pretty good at pointing out the insignificant.

Perhaps you would like to play a grown up game instead of the soldier game you seem to love so much.

MRJ on the Bull Session occasionally corrects mispellings, grammar and other insignificant items while totally missing the thing that really matters---real thought. You may get on along with her quite well.

Now back to the real discussion:

Has NAFTA delivered on its promises or what I suggested--that it has just been a way for companies to use cheap world labor/repressive governments, to enhance corporate profits?

Here is a quote from your article:

Latin America - Mexico

* Minimum wage is $0.50/ hour. In one US auto plant in Mexico, the workers went on strike. The Mexican police shot several and put the strikers back to work-and cut their wages 45%.
* Workers in the Tijuana maquiladoras are paid about $0.50/ hour - less than before NAFTA passed (Sierra, July/ August, 1997).
* Mexican auto industry wages and benefits average $4.00/ hour, vs. $30/ hour in the US (92L1).
* Average wages in Mexico's export-oriented maquiladoras sector are $1.73/ hour, vs. $2.17/ hour in the Mexican economy as a whole (92L1).
* Real wages in Mexico were less in 1999 than in 1980, despite NAFTA and some 4000 maquiladoras plants employing over one million workers (99C1).
* Labor productivity in Mexico's export industries is typically 80-100% of US levels, while wages are 10-15% of US levels. The Mexican government used armed forces to intimidate workers and establishes business associations to fix wage rates, which are kept low to attract foreign capital. NAFTA provides more incentives for US businesses to train Mexican workers than American workers (Jeff Faux, Pittsburgh Post Gazette, 9/8/93).
* Despite seemingly low wages and wretched conditions, Mexico is losing garment assembly jobs to Central America, call centers to Argentina, data processing to India, and electronics manufacture to China (03M1). Mexico has nearly lost the battle on low-skilled, labor-intensive industries according to Merrill Lynch's Latin American specialist Robert Berges. Two of Mexico's original advantages - low labor costs and cheap currency - are gone according to the head of General Electric Corp's Mexico operations (03M1).

Now I ask you on the broader point, does allowing companies to use cheaper world labor from repressive governments enhance democracy or just allow us to use their system to use their population for our benefit?

I for one don't believe we need to step on someone to climb the ladder. If that is what you believe, may be you should check on where your ladder is going. It might not be going to the place you hope. Read the quote on the bottom of my page and think about it.

Nafta allowed Mexico as a stepping stone to China and the orient for companies operating in the U.S. while outsourcing domestic jobs.

I for one think we should have strings attached to our trade. We have created a lot of wealth in the world by paying attention to labor issues, social issues, political issues, and justice issues, and a government more accountable to the people with civil rights. I don't like seeing all that being traded away with no thought.
 
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