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Just a Smokescreen?

A

Anonymous

Guest
700-Mile Border Fence
Likely Won't Be Built
Mid-American News

In the last weeks leading up to the November mid-term elections, an anxious and scandal-ridden Republican-led Congress eager to appeal to conservative voters authorized construction of a 700-mile fence along the U.S. border with Mexico. But just as soon as the news hit the airwaves, lawmakers swiftly but quietly backtracked by passing companion legislation that virtually ensures most of the security fence will never be built.

GOP leaders singled out the fence as a major accomplishment, heralding belated attention to the massive illegal immigration pouring across America's inadequately defended southern border for the last several decades. But in the hours before recessing, both the House and Senate voted to give the Bush administration broad latitude to distribute the authorized $1.2 billion fence money to a combination of other different projects, not just the fence. The legislation allows the funds to be spent on roads, technology, and so-called "tactical infrastructure" to support the Department of Homeland Security's preferred option that it calls a "virtual fence." That option does not physically prevent illegal border crossing. It only detects where breaches occur.

In an apparent betrayal of widely trumpeted campaign promises to conservative supporters to place priority on border security, GOP leaders pledged in writing that American Indian tribes, members of Congress, governors, and local political leaders can exercise their own judgement in "the exact placement" of any fence structure, and granted blanket authority to Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff, an amnesty supporter, to use alternatives "when fencing is ineffective or impractical."

In other words, Congress granted veto power over fence construction to a multitude of any number of potential pro-immigration interests.

An analysis of the legislation by the Washington Post noted that "the loopholes leave the Bush administration with authority to decide where, when and how long a fence will be built, except for small stretches east of San Diego and in western Arizona."
"It's one thing to authorize. It's another thing to actually appropriate the money and do it," noted Sen. John Cornyn, R-TX, a staunch ally of the Bush administration who has in the past backed various amnesty proposals.

Based on interviews with GOP political campaign planners, the Washington Post reported that bait-and-switch tactic deployed on the border fence issue "reflects political calculations by GOP strategists that voters do not mind the details" of legislation, and thereby satisfies opposition to the border fence expressed by administration officials, the business interests backing the GOP, and the Mexican government.

In October Ruben Aguilar, spokesman for outgoing Mexican President Vicente Fox, triumphantly told reporters in Mexico City that the U.S. will probably never build the fence because although its construction has been authorized, the funds have been appropriated.

"There is no money to build it, so it won't be built," Aquilar told corporate media representatives. "Even though the wall was approved, there is no funding."

Mexican interests lobbied strongly against the fence, and Mexico itself announced it would call on the United Nations to try to stop it if construction gets under way.

"Without a doubt, we are examining, with the foreign relations legal team, what options are open at an international level and we will take them," vowed Luis Ernesto Derbez, Fox's foreign secretary.

Fox himself, whose country benefits from mass illegal immigration as millions of impoverished Mexicans transfer their health and economic burdens away from Mexico and onto the backs of American taxapayers, called the fence "shameful." Echoing criticism from former Soviet Communist leader Mikhail Gorbachev, Fox compared the fence to the Berlin Wall.

Mexico also threatened in a diplomatic note sent to the U.S. that relations between the two countries would be hurt. "We think it [the fence] is a gesture that doesn't reflect the friendship between the nations of Latin America and the Caribbean and the United States," said Derbez.

The double-layered fence is estimated to cost $3 million a mile to build. The $1.2 billion authorization was billed by GOP leaders as a "down payment."

At least one senator admitted the finished product is unlikely to resemble to all the political hype. Sen. Judd Gregg, R-NH, chairman of the Senate subcommittee that funds the Department of Homeland Security, said that only about half of the fencing is likely to be built.

"I think there'll be fencing where the department feels that it makes sense," said Greg. He told the Post he thought "at least 300 to 400 miles" might be built.

The U.S. border with Mexico is 2,000 miles long.

Russ Knocke, spokesman for the Department of Homeland Security declined to affirm to the Washington Post whether all 700 miles of fencing would ever be built.

Although an estimated 12 million to 16 million illegal aliens have entered the county in recent decades, the department prefers to "test" a high-tech detection system, rather than begin construction on security fencing.

"We plan to build a little and test a little," said Knocke. "Stay tuned. We're optimistic that Congress is going to provide the department with flexibility."

He said the department plans to spend $67 million to test a remote sensing system he called a "virtual fence" along a small 28 mile stretch of the border south of Tucson over an eight month period.
Despite the apparent betrayal of voters, the GOP's top immigration negotiator and champion of border security embarked on what he called a "victory tour" of border states in the weeks before the election, trumpeting the message that Republicans are for border security. Rep. James Sensenbrenner, Jr. of Wisconsin, the primary author of the House's popular immigration enforcement legislation that the Senate refused to consider, claimed that supporters of border security have won a major victory.

"I want the American public to know that we won on this, and the House Republicans were able to not only pass, but fund important border security measures," he said. Sensenbrenner is chairman of the House Judiciary Committee.

At news conferences in Scottsdale, Arizona, and San Diego, Sensenbrenner touted the GOP's prowess in meeting the demands of voters.

"It's what the people of this country want," he said. "They want to know that we're modernizing the border so we can better secure the border."













--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Texas town OKs anti-immigration measures

By ANABELLE GARAY
Associated Press Writer


FARMERS BRANCH, Texas (AP) -- Leaders of this Dallas suburb unanimously approved tough new anti-immigration measures Monday evening, including one that makes English the official language.

In a series of 6-0 votes, the city council without discussion approved fines for landlords that deal with illegal immigrants, and decided to allow local authorities to screen suspects in police custody to see whether they are in the country illegally.

With the votes, the city became the first municipality in Texas to enact such strong anti-immigrant laws. Such ordinances have troubled many people in the state, where many Latino families can trace their roots to the era before statehood.

More than 50 municipalities nationwide have considered, passed or rejected similar laws.

In a packed room in City Hall, people clapped as the votes were tallied in favor of the measures. In a parking lot outside, hundreds of protesters against the rules waved U.S. flags and recited the Pledge of Allegiance in English before the votes were taken.

The vote came in a public meeting after council members emerged from an all-day closed meeting with the city attorney, in which they discussed the legal ramifications of the proposals. Opponents submitted an 80-signature petition to the mayor's office Monday.

"It's very much against the very fiber of this nation," said Mike Ghouse, a homebuilder with a group called Foundation for Pluralism.

Council member Bill Moses blamed what he called inadequate federal enforcement of immigration laws for forcing their vote.

"I'm just sorry that the federal government has put us in this position," he said.

Attorneys with the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund told city council members during a public meeting earlier Monday that the proposals could violate federal law.

The rules could force untrained business owners and landlords to evaluate a wide array of immigration documents to determine whether the person carrying them is legally in the country, said Marisol Perez, a staff attorney for the group.

"You're putting them in the shoes of an immigration officer," she said she told council members.

The local debate over illegal immigration began in August and spawned demonstrations by both sides.

Supporters say the ordinances are necessary because the federal government has failed to address problems tied to illegal immigration. But critics argued the proposals could lead to sanctioned discrimination and racism.

Since 1970, Farmers Branch has changed from a small, predominantly white bedroom community with a declining population to a city of almost 28,000 people, about 37 percent of them Hispanic, according to the census. It also is home to more than 80 corporate headquarters and more than 2,600 small and mid-size firms, many of them minority-owned.

The proposals follow a vote this year in Hazleton, Pa., to fine landlords who rent to illegal immigrants, deny business permits to companies that employ them and require tenants to register and pay for a rental permit.

However, a federal judge temporarily blocked enforcement of the Hazleton ordinance while he considers a lawsuit against the town by civil and immigrant rights groups.

---
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Even IF the fence got built by being only 700 miles long they could just walk around each end!!!

Purely a band aid movement that's all.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
A Resurgence of Deadly Diseases (Excerpt)
by R. Cort Kirkwood
November 27, 2006



Diseases once thought to be nearly eradicated in America, such as tuberculosis and leprosy, are now rising as illegal immigrants bring their health problems to our country.
Illegal immigrants not only drain American healthcare resources but also present a new threat: diseases once thought nearly erased from the American medical dictionary, as well as new ones never before seen, are emerging across the country.


As the late Madeline Cosman demonstrated in the Journal of the American Physicians and Surgeons in 2005, and other newspapers and health organizations have widely reported, illegal immigrants carry loathsome diseases for which American medicine is ill-prepared.

Time was, she wrote, referring to her immigrant grandfather, immigrants were tested for infectious diseases and then quarantined or shipped back to the old country. Anyone who has seen the second Godfather film remembers young Vito Corleone's arrival at Ellis Island. Diagnosed with smallpox, he landed in confinement. Or, like Cosman, many Americans know of the stories of grandparents and great-grandparents fresh off the boat from the old country. The authorities checked them for disease.

"Every legal immigrant before 1924 was examined for infectious diseases upon arrival and tested for tuberculosis," Cosman wrote. "Anyone infected was shipped back to the old country. That was powerful incentive for each newcomer to make heroic efforts to appear healthy. Today, immigrants must demonstrate that they are free of communicable diseases and drug addiction to qualify for lawful permanent residency green cards. Illegal aliens simply cross our borders medically unexamined, hiding in their bodies any number of communicable diseases...."
 

hopalong

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
Even IF the fence got built by being only 700 miles long they could just walk around each end!!!

Purely a band aid movement that's all.


Yep start in the middle and walk 350 miles to get to the end, that is really scary. Let's see a 350 mile long line of illigals? rather obvious i would think?
Opps that would be 700 miles long! Band aids have been known to stop bleeding until a better remedy is available.

Who makes these kinds of statements anyway?? not a lot of thought made before making them.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Kind of funny- all you folks screaming about all the immigrants with diseases- wouldn't raise a word when old GW was letting in by the droves and I commented about it....
 

Mike

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Kind of funny- all you folks screaming about all the immigrants with diseases- wouldn't raise a word when old GW was letting in by the droves and I commented about it....

No. The funny thing is several states passed Immigration Statutes and you climbed the walls saying they can't do that. Well guess what, SCOTUS turned part of them but not all........................ :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Last year the Supreme Court blocked much of Arizona's immigration law, ruling the federal government had the chief role in setting immigration law. But the court also ruled states could play a role in enforcing immigration laws. It let stand an Arizona measure -- also adopted in Alabama -- that directs police to conduct immigration status checks during traffic stops and other routine law enforcement contact.
 

TexasBred

Well-known member
But is it accurate for Obama to claim that "the fence is now basically complete"?

DHS reports that there is now fencing for 649 of the 652 miles described in the Secure Fence Act of 2006. But the vast majority of the requirement was met with vehicle barriers and single-layer pedestrian fence. The original act specifically called for double-layer fencing, and only 36.3 miles of double-layered fencing currently exist. However, the act was later amended to allow Border Security the discretion to determine which type of fencing was appropriate for different areas.

So Obama can make a case that the vehicle barriers and single-layer pedestrian fences meet the amended letter of the law. But we also think Obama misleads, particularly when he mocks Republican opponents, saying that even though the fence has been built, "They'll want want a higher fence. Maybe they’ll need a moat. Maybe they want alligators in the moat." The Border Patrol has not gone "above and beyond" what Republicans requested, as Obama claimed. What they originally requested was a double-layer fence, and they didn't get much of it. And so we rate Obama's statement Barely True.
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
Oldtimer said:
Kind of funny- all you folks screaming about all the immigrants with diseases- don't raise a word when old Barry is letting in by 10x the droves Bush did....

fixed

Much like his moaning about the national debt, deficit spending, failure to follow the constitution, acting like a King, and on and on and on and on.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
TexasBred said:
But is it accurate for Obama to claim that "the fence is now basically complete"?

DHS reports that there is now fencing for 649 of the 652 miles described in the Secure Fence Act of 2006. But the vast majority of the requirement was met with vehicle barriers and single-layer pedestrian fence. The original act specifically called for double-layer fencing, and only 36.3 miles of double-layered fencing currently exist. However, the act was later amended to allow Border Security the discretion to determine which type of fencing was appropriate for different areas.

So Obama can make a case that the vehicle barriers and single-layer pedestrian fences meet the amended letter of the law. But we also think Obama misleads, particularly when he mocks Republican opponents, saying that even though the fence has been built, "They'll want want a higher fence. Maybe they’ll need a moat. Maybe they want alligators in the moat." The Border Patrol has not gone "above and beyond" what Republicans requested, as Obama claimed. What they originally requested was a double-layer fence, and they didn't get much of it. And so we rate Obama's statement Barely True.


700-Mile Border Fence
Likely Won't Be Built

Mid-American News

In the last weeks leading up to the November mid-term elections, an anxious and scandal-ridden Republican-led Congress eager to appeal to conservative voters authorized construction of a 700-mile fence along the U.S. border with Mexico. But just as soon as the news hit the airwaves, lawmakers swiftly but quietly backtracked by passing companion legislation that virtually ensures most of the security fence will never be built.

GOP leaders singled out the fence as a major accomplishment, heralding belated attention to the massive illegal immigration pouring across America's inadequately defended southern border for the last several decades. But in the hours before recessing, both the House and Senate voted to give the Bush administration broad latitude to distribute the authorized $1.2 billion fence money to a combination of other different projects, not just the fence. The legislation allows the funds to be spent on roads, technology, and so-called "tactical infrastructure" to support the Department of Homeland Security's preferred option that it calls a "virtual fence." That option does not physically prevent illegal border crossing. It only detects where breaches occur.

In an apparent betrayal of widely trumpeted campaign promises to conservative supporters to place priority on border security, GOP leaders pledged in writing that American Indian tribes, members of Congress, governors, and local political leaders can exercise their own judgement in "the exact placement" of any fence structure, and granted blanket authority to Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff, an amnesty supporter, to use alternatives "when fencing is ineffective or impractical."

In other words, Congress granted veto power over fence construction to a multitude of any number of potential pro-immigration interests.

An analysis of the legislation by the Washington Post noted that "the loopholes leave the Bush administration with authority to decide where, when and how long a fence will be built, except for small stretches east of San Diego and in western Arizona."

Yep--Looks to me like Obama surely can say the fence is complete- because Congress back in 2006 gave the Administration/Homeland Security the right to decide where and what type of barricades/fencing was needed to complete the project ... So if they decided its done- its done as far as the law reads...
 

Brad S

Well-known member
One of the lies the left tells is "equivalency". For example Bush, in concert with the Mexican govt let a very few guns that were traced and tracked and recovered, into Mexico. So Obama, on the sly from Mexico pushed tons of guns into Mexico and didn't track them and tried to lie about it. So, when Obama got caught they said "bush did it too," but the equivalency suggestion is another lie from the left. And water is wet.

On one lie, OT says tea party is outrageously extreme and causing a division in the RNC. The next OT lie is no republican was critical of bush when he was equivalent to Obama in illegal emigration enforcement. Here, OT is giving us a 2fer. First, many republican leaning Americans were critical of Bush's lax enforcement. And lax enforcement is not equivalent to obamas encouragement of illegal emigration.

Newt has been supporting e verify for most of 2 decades. Yes many republicans understand the national chamber of commerce is a heavy hitting lobbying group that has some priorities in opposition to our own. For this, OT vacillates from "we don't exist" to "we are racist women hating homophobes. Seeking truth from OT is indeed a fools errand.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Brad S said:
One of the lies the left tells is "equivalency". For example Bush, in concert with the Mexican govt let a very few guns that were traced and tracked and recovered, into Mexico. So Obama, on the sly from Mexico pushed tons of guns into Mexico and didn't track them and tried to lie about it. So, when Obama got caught they said "bush did it too," but the equivalency suggestion is another lie from the left. And water is wet.

On one lie, OT says tea party is outrageously extreme and causing a division in the RNC. The next OT lie is no republican was critical of bush when he was equivalent to Obama in illegal emigration enforcement. Here, OT is giving us a 2fer. First, many republican leaning Americans were critical of Bush's lax enforcement. And lax enforcement is not equivalent to obamas encouragement of illegal emigration.

Newt has been supporting e verify for most of 2 decades. Yes many republicans understand the national chamber of commerce is a heavy hitting lobbying group that has some priorities in opposition to our own. For this, OT vacillates from "we don't exist" to "we are racist women hating homophobes. Seeking truth from OT is indeed a fools errand.

Brad- not doubting you - but could you bring up the links to a couple of the posts where you criticized GW for his immigration stance... Or where you criticized GW on anything... As I get older my memory fails me - and I just don't remember you posting criticism's of GW's crew...
 

hopalong

Well-known member
If some asked you top show anything you would crying that they need to do their own research... Paybacks are hell oldtimer
 

iwannabeacowboy

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Brad S said:
One of the lies the left tells is "equivalency". For example Bush, in concert with the Mexican govt let a very few guns that were traced and tracked and recovered, into Mexico. So Obama, on the sly from Mexico pushed tons of guns into Mexico and didn't track them and tried to lie about it. So, when Obama got caught they said "bush did it too," but the equivalency suggestion is another lie from the left. And water is wet.

On one lie, OT says tea party is outrageously extreme and causing a division in the RNC. The next OT lie is no republican was critical of bush when he was equivalent to Obama in illegal emigration enforcement. Here, OT is giving us a 2fer. First, many republican leaning Americans were critical of Bush's lax enforcement. And lax enforcement is not equivalent to obamas encouragement of illegal emigration.

Newt has been supporting e verify for most of 2 decades. Yes many republicans understand the national chamber of commerce is a heavy hitting lobbying group that has some priorities in opposition to our own. For this, OT vacillates from "we don't exist" to "we are racist women hating homophobes. Seeking truth from OT is indeed a fools errand.

Brad- not doubting you - but could you bring up the links to a couple of the posts where you criticized GW for his immigration stance... Or where you criticized GW on anything... As I get older my memory fails me - and I just don't remember you posting criticism's of GW's crew...

Why would you want to go looking into his past statements... isn't that called stalking? :lol:


But since you didn't think it existed, it meant it would.

Only took 2 seconds.

Regarding the Bush budget in 05. Brad S wrote:
I'm not that thrilled with the budget, but that is exactly the nature of compromise.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
iwannabeacowboy said:
Oldtimer said:
Brad S said:
One of the lies the left tells is "equivalency". For example Bush, in concert with the Mexican govt let a very few guns that were traced and tracked and recovered, into Mexico. So Obama, on the sly from Mexico pushed tons of guns into Mexico and didn't track them and tried to lie about it. So, when Obama got caught they said "bush did it too," but the equivalency suggestion is another lie from the left. And water is wet.

On one lie, OT says tea party is outrageously extreme and causing a division in the RNC. The next OT lie is no republican was critical of bush when he was equivalent to Obama in illegal emigration enforcement. Here, OT is giving us a 2fer. First, many republican leaning Americans were critical of Bush's lax enforcement. And lax enforcement is not equivalent to obamas encouragement of illegal emigration.

Newt has been supporting e verify for most of 2 decades. Yes many republicans understand the national chamber of commerce is a heavy hitting lobbying group that has some priorities in opposition to our own. For this, OT vacillates from "we don't exist" to "we are racist women hating homophobes. Seeking truth from OT is indeed a fools errand.

Brad- not doubting you - but could you bring up the links to a couple of the posts where you criticized GW for his immigration stance... Or where you criticized GW on anything... As I get older my memory fails me - and I just don't remember you posting criticism's of GW's crew...

Why would you want to go looking into his past statements... isn't that called stalking? :lol:


But since you didn't think it existed, it meant it would.

Only took 2 seconds.

Regarding the Bush budget in 05. Brad S wrote:
I'm not that thrilled with the budget, but that is exactly the nature of compromise.

Golly Gee, Shucky darns, shite--it really sounds like he is horribly upset :???: :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

iwannabeacowboy

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
iwannabeacowboy said:
Oldtimer said:
Brad- not doubting you - but could you bring up the links to a couple of the posts where you criticized GW for his immigration stance... Or where you criticized GW on anything... As I get older my memory fails me - and I just don't remember you posting criticism's of GW's crew...

Why would you want to go looking into his past statements... isn't that called stalking? :lol:


But since you didn't think it existed, it meant it would.

Only took 2 seconds.

Regarding the Bush budget in 05. Brad S wrote:
I'm not that thrilled with the budget, but that is exactly the nature of compromise.

Golly Gee, Shucky darns, shite--it really sounds like he is horribly upset :???: :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:


:lol: You just poop yourself again? Does your wife use throw aways or re-washable?
 

Brad S

Well-known member
Thanks cowboy, that was a long time ago.

OT, you know how happy id be if Obama (even offered a budget) submitted Bush's 05 budget.

I don't know if the subject of illegal invasion really came to a head here back then. I have far too much vanity to try to mislead who I am. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I was better informed and more vocal about invasion. Nonetheless, my ignorance has never been race generated, or a function of anarchism or any of your list of personal attack slurs.
 
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