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Just how little BSE in feed will result in transmission?

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reader (the Second) said:
15 @ 0.01g; resulted in 1 case at 57 months
15 @ 0.001g resulted in 1 case at 69 months

That is getting to be very small amounts- and from what I remember reading in some studies they have no idea how little it takes to infect a human.....I guess they haven't found many human guinea pigs yet...

Come on ~SH~- a chance to give us some facts if you volunteered :wink: :lol:
 

TimH

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C'mon, reader(the 2nd), What does "INJECTING" have to do with "FEED"??? :roll: :roll:
I'm still waiting for you to provide us with any scientific study, done anywhere, in which scientists have been able to transmit BSE through feed(not injection of homegenized serum directly into the brain) under laboratory conditions.
You can't because no such study exists. No bovine has EVER been successfully infected with BSE by FEEDING IT KNOWN INFECTIVE MATERIAL UNDER CONTROLLED LAB CONDITIONS.
Injection of homogenized serum into the brains of test animals DOES NOT MEAN "FEED"!!! Not in my world, anyway. :roll: :roll: :roll:
 

TimH

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reader(the 2nd), That little blurb proves nothing.
If BSE, or vCJD for that matter, was so easily transmitted by eating infective material, it should be mere child's play for someone as well versed and knowledgable as you to provide us with a PUBLISHED SCIENTIFIC STUDY IN WHICH BSE WAS TRANSMITTED THROUGH FEED.
And don't give me the old "injection is quicker" routine. The Brits have been screwing around with this for over 20 years and how many of their FEEDING IT experiments have failed to transmit BSE????? ALL OF THEM!!!

Admit it. BSE has never been transmitted to a bovine through feed in a controlled laboratory experiment.EVER!!! :roll:
 

TimH

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reader(the 2nd)- "Tim - there is evidence for TSEs transmitted through ingestion in 18 different species, including BSE being transmitted to other species. Look for yourself."

Hahaha!!! What I asked for reader, was for ONE PUBLISHED SCIENTIFIC STUDY IN WHICH BSE WAS TRANSMITTED TO A BOVINE THROUGH FEED.
You can't provide it because NO SUCH EVIDENCE OF TRANSMISSION THROUGH FEED EXISTS.
ADMIT IT!!!! YOU KNOW IT IS TRUE!!!! Stop diverting and spinning!!! :roll:

If such evidence actually existed , reader(the 2nd) would post it here in a heartbeat instead of diverting.
It does not exist.If it did, she would post it. It is that simple. :roll:
 

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Detection of disease-specific PrP in the distal ileum of cattle exposed orally to the agent of bovine spongiform encephalopathy

Authors: Terry L.A.; Marsh S.; Ryder S.J.; Hawkins S.A.C.; Wells G.A.H.; Spencer Y.I.

Source: The Veterinary Record, Volume 152, Number 13, 29 March 2003, pp. 387-392(6)

Publisher: BVA Publications

Abstract:
The immunohistochemical localisation of the disease-specific protein, PrPSc, was examined in the distal ileum of cattle up to 40 months after they had been exposed orally to the agent of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE), in the intestines and mesenteric lymph nodes of an additional group of cattle, killed six months after a similar exposure, and in the distal ileum of naturally occurring clinical cases of BSE. PrPSc was detected, mainly in macrophages, in a small proportion of the follicles of Peyer's patches in the distal ileum of the experimentally exposed cattle throughout much of the course of the disease. The observations are in agreement with the infectivity data derived from mouse bioassays of the distal ileum.
 

TimH

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Nice try Mike. When animals are tested for BSE, do we test the distal ileum or the BRAIN for a positive confirmatory result????
If they were drenched with infective material it stands to reason that infective material may be found in the digestive tract. What about the brain??? Did anyone test the brain in this study??? NOOOOO!!!

You got nuthin'''!!!(turd)

Give it up. Scientists have NOT been able to transmit BSE to a bovine through feed. Ever.
 

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The BSE INQUIRY
Volume 1: Findings and Conclusions
12. Science and research
Scientific conclusions about BSE

1122 Our analysis of the scientific knowledge occupies the major part of vol. 2: Science. We shall not attempt a summary in this volume. We shall simply set out the conclusions that we have drawn from the scientific response to BSE:

1. The vector responsible for the epidemic of BSE in cattle was MBM

The spread of BSE in cattle to the point where it became an epidemic came about from the use of meat and bone meal (MBM) in cattle feed. The MBM in question was infective because it had been made by rendering infective offal from cattle suffering from, or merely incubating, the disease. As little as 1 gram (or less) of this material could cause death if ingested by other cattle. It was so infective that accidental contamination of cattle feed with pig or poultry feed containing MBM was a significant factor in continuing to spread BSE after the ban on the use of MBM in cattle feed. Apart from MBM in feed, transmission from mother to calf is likely to have played a part. We cannot yet say whether contamination of pastures played a part. The suggestion has been made that the BSE agent may have been spread in the early stages in hormones used in veterinary preparations. This possibility cannot be discounted. But the overwhelming vector of the epidemic was MBM in cattle feed.
 

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reader(the 2nd)- "An ongoing experiment at the Veterinary Laboratory Agency (VLA) has established that a
homogenate of brainstem from BSE-affected cattle when fed to 4-month-old calves can cause
BSE. "

Care to explain to us exactly what a "homogenate of brainstem " actually means???
Could it mean that it is, in effect, actually concentrated many thousands of times????

Just ONE published study in which a bovine has been infected with BSE through NORMAL FEEDING PRACTICES. That is all I ask. :lol:
 

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THE BSE INQUIRY
Volume 1: Findings and Conclusions
Executive Summary of the Report of the Inquiry
6. Measures to eradicate the disease in cattle

* Once Mr Wilesmith had identified MBM as the probable vector of BSE, the Government introduced the appropriate measure to prevent further infection and to stop the spread of the BSE agent - a ban on incorporating ruminant protein in ruminant feed. This had a dramatic effect in reducing to a fraction what had been an escalating rate of infection. It did not, however, bring infection to an end.
* The manner in which the Government introduced the ruminant feed ban was influenced by misconceptions as to:

- the scale of the infection;
- the amount of infective material needed to transmit the disease.

* Ignorant of the fact that the rate of infection had escalated to thousands of cases a week, the Government gave the animal feed trade a 'period of grace' of some five weeks to clear existing stocks of feed before the ban took effect. Some members of the feed trade, being given an inch, felt free to take a yard and continued to clear stocks after the ban came into force. Farmers in their turn used up the stocks that they had purchased. This led to thousands of animals being infected after the ruminant feed ban came into force on 18 July 1988.
* More serious was a failure to give rigorous consideration to the amount of infective material that was proving capable of transmitting the disease. The false assumption was made that any cross-contamination of cattle feed in feedmills from pig or poultry feed containing ruminant protein would be on too small a scale to matter.
* In fact, as subsequent experiments were to demonstrate, a cow can become infected with BSE as a result of eating an amount of infectious tissue as small as a peppercorn. Cross-contamination in feedmills resulted in the continued infection of thousands of cattle. Because it takes, on average, five years after initial infection for the clinical signs of BSE to become apparent, this was not appreciated until 1994[/b]
 

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Mike, You can't be serious. Quoting the UK Government BSE Inquiry Report and trying to pass it off as a "CONTROLLED SCIENTIFIC STUDY UNDER LABORATORY CONDITIONS"!!!!

That's Funny!!!! :lol:
 

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TIM h You can't be serious. Talk about being indifferent,for that matter you can't prove that Cows in Canada are not 50% infected with bse pirons from their previous feedstocks storage areas and pasture's where pirons never deteriate.
 

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reader( the 2nd)- ".01 g in the Danny Matthews citation. You are full of it, Tim."

HAhahah!!!

I'll make my request as clear as possible.

I want to see a scientific study, completed and reproduced under laboratory conditions, in which BSE was successfully transmitted to a bovine through feeding a normal dosage of infective material.By normal dosage I mean NOT HOMOGENATE.

An example of a scientific study would begin with....."Penn and Teller et al at University of Slight of hand and Deception".... :roll:

Just admit it reader the 2nd. NO SUCH STUDY EXISTS AND YOU ARE FULL OF IT.

If such a study exists .....POST IT RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOWWW!!!!
 

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Porker- "TIM h You can't be serious. Talk about being indifferent,for that matter you can't prove that Cows in Canada are not 50% infected with bse pirons from their previous feedstocks storage areas and pasture's where pirons never deteriate."

No , I guess I can't prove that. But by that same logic you can't prove that Washington State or Texas cows are not 50% infected with bse "pirons"(as opposed to prions)from their previous feedstocks storage areas and pasture's where pirons never deteriate."

Still waiting for that scientific study......ANYONE??????? :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

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The pathogenesis study

3.212 At the same time as the NPU work was being carried out, the pathogenesis of BSE (temporal spread of infectivity around the body) was also being investigated. The pathogenesis study, carried out at the CVL, was initiated in December 1991, after it was suggested in 1990 that there was a need to 'experimentally justify the . . . offals ban'. 23 There had been suggestions that, since no infectivity had been found in extra-neural tissues, the pattern of pathogenesis might not be the same as that seen in sheep. 24

3.213 Cattle were given a single oral dose of 100 g of BSE-affected cattle brain and slaughtered at intervals thereafter in order to follow the route of infection to the brain. Forty-four tissues were studied for infectivity, again using the mouse bioassay. 25 In June 1994 infectivity was reported in the ileum of cattle slaughtered 6 months after oral dosing. 26 This result was significant in that, with scrapie, no infectivity was seen in this organ until 10 months after inoculation. It also represented a difference from the results of the NPU study, in that infectivity of BSE had now been detected outside the brain and spinal cord. It led to the 1994 amendment to the SBO Order banning the use of intestine from all bovine animals except those that had died aged 2 months.
 

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:lol: :oops: :lol:

ONE. UNO. EIN. 1 study in which a bovine has been fed known BSE infective material , in a normal dosage, and has been shown to be BSE positive using approved testing methods (ie. western blot or IHC etc. using brain samples).

GIVE UP. IT HAS NEVER HAPPENED.

Monkeys don't count. Testing the distal ileum don't count.reader the 2nd telling me I'm full of it don't count.Porker trying to turn this into USA vs. Canada don't count. Injections into the brain don't count. Homogenate don't count.
Give it up. No such study exists. Go ahead and admit that you have been conned!!!
The "BSE IS TRANSMISSABLE THROUGH FEED" theory has never been proven!!!!......EVER!!!!! :D
 
A

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TimH said:
:lol: :oops: :lol:

ONE. UNO. EIN. 1 study in which a bovine has been fed known BSE infective material , in a normal dosage, and has been shown to be BSE positive using approved testing methods (ie. western blot or IHC etc. using brain samples).

GIVE UP. IT HAS NEVER HAPPENED.

Monkeys don't count. Testing the distal ileum don't count.reader the 2nd telling me I'm full of it don't count.Porker trying to turn this into USA vs. Canada don't count. Injections into the brain don't count. Homogenate don't count.
Give it up. No such study exists. Go ahead and admit that you have been conned!!!
The "BSE IS TRANSMISSABLE THROUGH FEED" theory has never been proven!!!!......EVER!!!!! :D

Sounds like you would make a good human guinea pig along with ~SH~.. Give us some real facts..... :lol:
 

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OT- "Sounds like you would make a good human guinea pig along with ~SH~.. Give us some real facts..... "

The "real facts" are obvious. After over 20 years of trying, scientists have NEVER been able to feed BSE to a bovine using a normal dosage of infective material, under lab conditions. reader (the 2nd) is well aware of this fact but refuses to admit it. I'm not so sure about Mike(the turd). :wink:
If such scientific evidence existed, they would post it, instead of posting the opinions of UK government beaurocrats and other such non-scientific crud.
SAY IT WITH ME......THE TRANSMISSABLE THROUGH FEED THEORY HAS NEVER BEEN PROVEN. :D
 
A

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TimH said:
OT- "Sounds like you would make a good human guinea pig along with ~SH~.. Give us some real facts..... "

The "real facts" are obvious. After over 20 years of trying, scientists have NEVER been able to feed BSE to a bovine using a normal dosage of infective material, under lab conditions. reader (the 2nd) is well aware of this fact but refuses to admit it. I'm not so sure about Mike(the turd). :wink:
If such scientific evidence existed, they would post it, instead of posting the opinions of UK government beaurocrats and other such non-scientific crud.
SAY IT WITH ME......THE TRANSMISSABLE THROUGH FEED THEORY HAS NEVER BEEN PROVEN. :D

You must not have read the same posts I just read :???: :???:
 

TimH

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R2- "I think TimH has trouble reading or perhaps it's the scientific language of these scientific finds from a DECADE ago on "oral challenges" that he can't parse. DEFRA has been proving for over a decade with smaller and small dosages of BSE given orally that calves are infected when fed BSE material orally and that the material that is infectious includes not only the brains but can include the small intestine of calves as young as SIX months old, hence the SBO (= SRM for Tim) restrictions in the UK."

Hahaha!! :lol: Ya, go ahead and try to throw my reading skills into question. That should draw attention away from YOUR INABILITY TO PROVIDE US WITH AN INDEPENDANT SCIENTIFIC STUDY SHOWING THAT BSE IS TRANSMISSABLE THROUGH FEED. :lol:

DEFRA???? Is that the UK equivalent to the USDA????? Why do you quote DEFRA as gospel while you question and criticize the USDA on a daily basis????
ONE independant study R2. That is all I want. :D
 

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OT- "You must not have read the same posts I just read "

Where ,OT, did you read anything that did not come from a UK government website or a DEFRA release??
Why is Defra such a "credible source" of scientific information and USDA is not??? What part of INDEPENDANT is it that you do not understand???

I'm still waiting for someone to post INDEPENDANT SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE THAT BSE IS TRANSMISSABLE TO BOVINES THROUGH FEED.... :lol: ( HINT; The evidence does not exist.)
 

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