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Ken Overcast solves the debt crisis/selling public land

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I don't know anything about federal leases, we have some state leases and stay well away from them.

If there are a lot of restrictions, or hardships placed on a leasee, then the value would not be equivalent to a private lease. A value would have to be determined for each issue.

We sure don't need any NEW land being tied up with government parks or the green weenies. And I do like the idea of being financial sound.
I think that decreasing the volume of land would likely be a step in the right direction, but I hope we don't dump all of it. There is some good in having some remote areas open for public use and promoting its use. But it should be self sustaining.

There are probably a lot of ways of generating revenue from the land, such as a day use fee for people that use the land for hunting, camping, horseback riding, etc... but will still allow for new generations to enjoy the land at a cost that is affordable.
 
okfarmer said:
We sure don't need any NEW land being tied up with government parks or the green weenies. And I do like the idea of being financial sound.
I think that decreasing the volume of land would likely be a step in the right direction, but I hope we don't dump all of it. There is some good in having some remote areas open for public use and promoting its use. But it should be self sustaining.

There are probably a lot of ways of generating revenue from the land, such as a day use fee for people that use the land for hunting, camping, horseback riding, etc... but will still allow for new generations to enjoy the land at a cost that is affordable.

Yep- one of the reasons I think you would have an uprising of both liberals and conservatives if they try putting much of the "public" land in our area into private hands...The hunters, sportsmen, gun enthusiasts,fishermen, and other outdoor recreationists are a strong lobby in this state- and if you added in the greeny weeny segment that wants to keep it public-- it could be a tough bunch to fight...
Just look at how strongly those groups have joined together to fight doing away with the CRP program- or any modifications they do to the CRP program to put it back into Ag production....

MT has a fee program charging recreationists for using State Trust lands..


State Trust Lands are properties managed by the Department of Natural Resources and Conservation (DNRC) for the sole purpose of generating income for public schools and other public institutions. Legally accessible State Trust Lands can be accessed by public roads, public easements, public waters that are recreationally navigable under the Stream Access Law, by adjacent federal, state, county, or municipal land that is open to public use, or by permission of an adjacent private landowner.

For land ownership maps and more information regarding State Lands, contact DNRC at (406) 444-2074.

State Land Recreation Use Permit
A State Land Recreation Use Permit is required for anyone conducting a non-commercial activity on State Trust Lands not related to hunting and fishing. Applicable non-commercial activities include, but are not limited to, hiking, skiing, sightseeing, and day horseback use.

The State Land Recreation Use Permit is not required when using State Trust Lands for hunting or fishing, because a $2.00 fee is included in the Montana Conservation License for use of these lands.


The State Land Recreation Use Permit is available from any authorized FWP license agent or through the Online Licensing System . The permit is valid for one license year—March 1 to the last day of February.

Special Recreational Use License
The following activities require separate authorization from DNRC:

•overnight horseback use
•trapping
•outfitting
•group use
•cutting or gathering of firewood
•collecting valuable rocks and minerals
•mineral exploration
•collection or disturbance of archaeological, historical, or paleontological sites (fossils, artifacts, dinosaur bones, old building, etc)
The Special Recreational Use License is available only from DNRC offices.

Fees
Permit Fee
Individual Permit $10
Youth Permit (age 17 and younger) $5
Senior Permit (age 60 and over) $5
Family Permit (original permit holder plus five immediate family members) $20
 
Ten whole dollars, maybe they need to buy more of the private land at that price so they can cash in on the ten whole dollars.
 
since the federal government can't take care of what it already controls, then at least a moratorium on buying/taking more should be considered,



that and remove all exemptions from paying property taxes.. and then we would see some"entities" and greenie weenies flipping out..

nothing worse then a non profit taking land and then not maintaining it, and to top it off they are often exempt from property taxes..

and yes it would hurt some churches.. but the fact is some churches are no more then a way to avoid those same taxes..
 
Steve said:
since the federal government can't take care of what it already controls, then at least a moratorium on buying/taking more should be considered,



that and remove all exemptions from paying property taxes.. and then we would see some"entities" and greenie weenies flipping out..

nothing worse then a non profit taking land and then not maintaining it, and to top it off they are often exempt from property taxes..

and yes it would hurt some churches.. but the fact is some churches are no more then a way to avoid those same taxes..

AMEN-- I totally agree.....
 
Oldtimer said:
Steve said:
since the federal government can't take care of what it already controls, then at least a moratorium on buying/taking more should be considered,



that and remove all exemptions from paying property taxes.. and then we would see some"entities" and greenie weenies flipping out..

nothing worse then a non profit taking land and then not maintaining it, and to top it off they are often exempt from property taxes..

and yes it would hurt some churches.. but the fact is some churches are no more then a way to avoid those same taxes..

AMEN-- I totally agree.....


What would be wrong with the government paying taxes on assesed value on which they own?
 
hypocritexposer said:
Oldtimer said:
Steve said:
since the federal government can't take care of what it already controls, then at least a moratorium on buying/taking more should be considered,



that and remove all exemptions from paying property taxes.. and then we would see some"entities" and greenie weenies flipping out..

nothing worse then a non profit taking land and then not maintaining it, and to top it off they are often exempt from property taxes..

and yes it would hurt some churches.. but the fact is some churches are no more then a way to avoid those same taxes..

AMEN-- I totally agree.....


What would be wrong with the government paying taxes on assesed value on which they own?

The Federal government already does that- its called PILT funds (Payment in Lieu of Taxes) which they pay to local govts and school districts..
 
I say sell it to whomever can buy it. Let the Chinese come in like gang busters...


Get these western ' ranchers' off the Gov't tit. If you don't own a deed to the dirt....KEEP OFF!!!

All of you who voted for those Tea Baggers.....just to say NO. Well, they are doing just that and saying NO to EVERYTHING that comes down the pipe.


Hope you're happy...and you better sell down those cows/ sheep/ whatever or pony up some $$$$$ and buy some extra land.

the very ones who scream about people using Gov't programs/services turn out to be the very ones on the Gov't dole......


Pitiful....
 
jingo2 said:
I say sell it to whomever can buy it. Let the Chinese come in like gang busters...


Get these western ' ranchers' off the Gov't tit. If you don't own a deed to the dirt....KEEP OFF!!!

All of you who voted for those Tea Baggers.....just to say NO. Well, they are doing just that and saying NO to EVERYTHING that comes down the pipe.


Hope you're happy...and you better sell down those cows/ sheep/ whatever or pony up some $$$$$ and buy some extra land.

the very ones who scream about people using Gov't programs/services turn out to be the very ones on the Gov't dole......


Pitiful....

Pitiful describes you to a "T" kolo=jingo=lulu=allie :D :D :D :D :D
 
I'll tell you about selling off the U.S.A. to pay its debts.

The good news: We ain't as broke as we think we are. There are like trillions of dollars worth of assets that aren't figured on the balance sheet.

The bad news: That don't mean squat. The Federal Reserve gangsters have signed up the U.S.A. to be liable for like a quadrillion dollars worth of derivatives.

http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/its_the_derivatives.php

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/derivatives-the-quadrillion-dollar-financial-casino-completely-dominated-by-the-big-international-banks

http://www.maximumtheory.com/blog/archives/3330

Our hero/villain/dunce Ron Paul has suggested selling Fort Knox gold to pay U.S. debts.

http://www.personalliberty.com/news/representative-ron-paul-suggests-selling-fort-knox-gold-to-pay-u-s-debts-24463/

What would the U.S.A. be worth without gold? Nothing! And who would get the gold? Our enemies the Rothschilds!

Likewise for the land.

The U.S.A. should repudiate its debts and admit it can't handle money like an alcoholic can't handle booze.
 
jingo2 said:
I say sell it to whomever can buy it. Let the Chinese come in like gang busters...


Get these western ' ranchers' off the Gov't tit. If you don't own a deed to the dirt....KEEP OFF!!!

All of you who voted for those Tea Baggers.....just to say NO. Well, they are doing just that and saying NO to EVERYTHING that comes down the pipe.


Hope you're happy...and you better sell down those cows/ sheep/ whatever or pony up some $$$$$ and buy some extra land.

the very ones who scream about people using Gov't programs/services turn out to be the very ones on the Gov't dole......


Pitiful....
For the first time in your life you're starting to make sense. Sell it all and if you don't own it......you don't own it.
 
Besides cleaning up the debt, getting the people to own the land and shrink the government, it would also, most likely make the rest of the pasture land around the country a bit cheaper and make it more realistic for a rancher to actually buy some land at an affordable price.
 
BRG said:
Besides cleaning up the debt, getting the people to own the land and shrink the government, it would also, most likely make the rest of the pasture land around the country a bit cheaper and make it more realistic for a rancher to actually buy some land at an affordable price.






How do you come to that? If I bought it....I'd want to make a profit...so you'd end up paying what I wanted for it or you'd NOT get it....

But, I thought the general concensus was that too many foreign people/companies were holding parcels in the US already? Sell the Gov't lands and you're inviting them all to the party!!

If ANY of you think selling what little bit of land there is...compared to the HUGE debt....will cure the debt....then you are an IDIOT!!

Better start teaching them kids Chinese...they're gonna need it.
 
map-owns_the_west.jpg
 
By Henry Lamb
© 2011 WND



Why does the federal government own 65 percent of all the land west of Denver and less than 2 percent of the land east of Denver? Who cares?
Everyone should care. The federal government was not created to be the owner of the land; it was created expressly to get the "right of soil" out of the hands of a king – that is, out of the hands of government.


The sovereign right of the king to own, to tax and control the use of land led directly to the Declaration of Independence in 1776, and, after six years of bloody war, to the Treaty of Paris in 1783. This treaty was not with the federal government, which did not yet exist. The treaty was between the king of England and each of the enumerated states. The treaty specifically recognizes these states:

...to be free sovereign and independent states, that he [the king] treats with them as such, and for himself, his heirs, and successors, relinquishes all claims to the government, propriety, and territorial rights of the same and every part thereof.

Among the many great controversies resolved by the U.S. Constitution was the question of equality among the states that constituted the original United States of America. The principle that emerged was known as the "Equal Footing Doctrine," which supposedly insured that all states were equal in their sovereign power. Article I, Section 8 specified how the federal government might acquire land and the purposes for which it could be acquired from the states. The 10th Amendment further declared that powers not explicitly granted to the federal government were retained by the states and the people.

Where, then, is the equality for the states west of the 100th meridian?

The federal government owns about 98 percent of the land in Alaska and about 86 percent of Nevada land. Overall, the feds own 65 percent of all the land west of the 100th meridian. This fact makes a mockery of the Equal Footing Doctrine that was so important to the founders.

How this situation evolved over two centuries is the subject of many books and court battles. Much can be learned about the bumpy road to the present from the U.S. Constitution Annotated. However we got to this point is not as important as the fact that despite the intentions of the founders and the clear intent of the Equal Footing Doctrine, the states east of the 100th meridian are vastly "more equal" than the states to the west.

There is no valid reason why the federal government should own this land. Originally, it was purchased, or won, as a security measure for the eastern states. Originally, the federal government's objective was to get the newly acquired land into private hands as quickly as possible. The sale of the land was helpful in retiring debts that accumulated during the Revolutionary War. Toward the end of the 19th century and throughout the 20th century, the goals and objectives of the federal government changed, due to the growing influence in the east of people who bought into the socialist ideal.

The foundation of socialism is the idea that government should own the sources of production and distribute its benefits "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

The land owned by the federal government is rich in resources, which should be the property of the states and the people who live there. The states and the people who live there should decide how the land and its resources are used.

But no. In the West, the federal government not only dictates how the land will be used, it also dictates how the law will be enforced. Duly elected county sheriffs are forced to stand aside while law-enforcement officers of the U.S. Forest Service confiscate the private property of ranchers who allow their cattle to eat grass that the federal government claims as its own – despite a hundred years of undisputed ownership by the rancher's family.

The federal government should not own land other than that authorized in the Constitution. It should not be dictating how land is used in any state, and it should not be enforcing its will over the authority of local elected officials.

Several efforts to change this situation in the past have failed. The problem only worsens, and the tension between government and private land ownership is inspiring a new, better-organized effort to get the government out of the real estate business. Perhaps a new revolution is in the air.







Sponsored Link: The majority of Americans are not prepared... for the next big financial crisis. A wealthy Maryland businessman says it will change the way we invest, travel, shop, and even retire. See what you can do to be ready...
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Henry Lamb is the author of "The Rise of Global Governance," chairman of Sovereignty International and founder of the Environmental Conservation Organization (ECO) and Freedom21 Inc.



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jingo2 said:
BRG said:
Besides cleaning up the debt, getting the people to own the land and shrink the government, it would also, most likely make the rest of the pasture land around the country a bit cheaper and make it more realistic for a rancher to actually buy some land at an affordable price.






How do you come to that? If I bought it....I'd want to make a profit...so you'd end up paying what I wanted for it or you'd NOT get it....

But, I thought the general concensus was that too many foreign people/companies were holding parcels in the US already? Sell the Gov't lands and you're inviting them all to the party!!

If ANY of you think selling what little bit of land there is...compared to the HUGE debt....will cure the debt....then you are an IDIOT!!

Better start teaching them kids Chinese...they're gonna need it.

Easy answer - Supply and demand. If their is more available, the rest will sell for less, as their won't be as much $ available to buy the rest.

The Federal Government owns nearly 650 million acres of land - almost 30 percent of the land area of the United States. Alot of that is parks and such, and I am not advocating sell all that, maybe some, but not all. That is alot of land and alot of money!
 
BRG said:
jingo2 said:
BRG said:
Besides cleaning up the debt, getting the people to own the land and shrink the government, it would also, most likely make the rest of the pasture land around the country a bit cheaper and make it more realistic for a rancher to actually buy some land at an affordable price.






How do you come to that? If I bought it....I'd want to make a profit...so you'd end up paying what I wanted for it or you'd NOT get it....

But, I thought the general concensus was that too many foreign people/companies were holding parcels in the US already? Sell the Gov't lands and you're inviting them all to the party!!

If ANY of you think selling what little bit of land there is...compared to the HUGE debt....will cure the debt....then you are an IDIOT!!

Better start teaching them kids Chinese...they're gonna need it.

Easy answer - Supply and demand. If their is more available, the rest will sell for less, as their won't be as much $ available to buy the rest.

The Federal Government owns nearly 650 million acres of land - almost 30 percent of the land area of the United States. Alot of that is parks and such, and I am not advocating sell all that, maybe some, but not all. That is alot of land and alot of money!


Can't have it both ways...." you're either with us or against us"....remember that??? If you're gonna sell part.....sell it all and be done with it. Just think how much money you'd save by NOT having the up keep on the parks......log out them red woods....lumber would be cheaper. Get rid of the buff's and look at all the cattle that could be put there..... The options are ENDLESS!!! Hydro power....gold and ore mining......

Hurry up and get the first bid going...
 
jingo2 said:
BRG said:
jingo2 said:



How do you come to that? If I bought it....I'd want to make a profit...so you'd end up paying what I wanted for it or you'd NOT get it....

But, I thought the general concensus was that too many foreign people/companies were holding parcels in the US already? Sell the Gov't lands and you're inviting them all to the party!!

If ANY of you think selling what little bit of land there is...compared to the HUGE debt....will cure the debt....then you are an IDIOT!!

Better start teaching them kids Chinese...they're gonna need it.

Easy answer - Supply and demand. If their is more available, the rest will sell for less, as their won't be as much $ available to buy the rest.

The Federal Government owns nearly 650 million acres of land - almost 30 percent of the land area of the United States. Alot of that is parks and such, and I am not advocating sell all that, maybe some, but not all. That is alot of land and alot of money!


Can't have it both ways...." you're either with us or against us"....remember that??? If you're gonna sell part.....sell it all and be done with it. Just think how much money you'd save by NOT having the up keep on the parks......log out them red woods....lumber would be cheaper. Get rid of the buff's and look at all the cattle that could be put there..... The options are ENDLESS!!! Hydro power....gold and ore mining......

Hurry up and get the first bid going...

I know you don't really mean it, but you might be correct. We will need 50% more food by 2050 to feed the world. That might be where it has to come from.
 

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