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Killing captives and International Law

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hypocritexposer

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the video clearly shows Gaddafi being assassinated while in custody.

OT and flounder, does obama still get credit for this killing?


He should have been tried and hanged in a public square if found guilty.


Gaddafi's death breached the law, says Russia

"We have to lean on facts and international laws," Mr Lavrov said. "They say that a captured participant of an armed conflict should be treated in a certain way. And in any case, a prisoner of war should not be killed."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/gaddafis-death-breached-the-law-says-russia-2374250.html
 

hypocritexposer

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Faster horses said:
I thought all was fair in love and war
and an upcoming election... :D


obama has gotten a thirst for blood and thrives on the acceptance and idolization he gets from his supporters, like flounder and OT.

It feeds his Narcissism......not a good thing for the "rule of law"
 

loomixguy

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Hypo, I doubt like hell any of those half-assed jihadists who captured the Colonel read ANY international law. Or, if they did, it probably went right over their heads.

When you rassle with pigs, you're gonna get dirty. When a war is going on, folks are gonna get killed. I'm glad the Colonel is dead, and I'm glad the Hadji's killed him. That will save the US taxpayers the cost of an international trial, bickering over who has jurisdiction, and all the other malarkey and monkey bidness that goes with it. One thing about Hadj.....he don't "F" around when it comes time to extract some justice. It's pretty swift and no doubt is left as to the verdict. :shock: :wink:
 

okfarmer

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The issue is that if you are not living by the law of the land, you are living by the law of the jungle. If this is allowed against others, it will be justifiable to be allowed against us and our citizens without repercussions.

I don't want to live in a world that even the good guys disregard the law.

The end does not justify the means.

He needed to be tried and convicted of the crimes he committed.
 

Steve

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good riddance to a piece of trash.

I don't want to live in a world that even the good guys disregard the law.

The end does not justify the means.

I doubt I would have done differently then the young man who eventually took gadaffy's life.. I know I would not have paraded the body about, a trial and prosecution would have been a better end, to both gadaffy and osama but a bullet was not completely out of line.

both ruled by the sword and both died like cowards.. but two wrongs still does not make it right.. just understandable..


The law should also be upheld... but in today's society mob rule seems to be tolerated and rationalized..

if the credit is claimed then so should the blame,...
 

loomixguy

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okfarmer said:
The issue is that if you are not living by the law of the land, you are living by the law of the jungle. If this is allowed against others, it will be justifiable to be allowed against us and our citizens without repercussions.

I don't want to live in a world that even the good guys disregard the law.

The end does not justify the means.

He needed to be tried and convicted of the crimes he committed.

In any Islamic country, you ARE in the jungle. Sharia law, Islamic law, law of the jungle, it's all the same. Hadji hasn't read about the Geneva Convention, and doesn't follow it's mandates. Nick Berg didn't get a trial, either.

You need to remember, it remains to be seen if the guys who got the Colonel are good guys or not. (My money is on the "not").

He was tried, convicted, and executed. By his peers. Didn't take 'em long, either.

Was what happened right? Probably not. But the Colonel is now tits up and won't kill any more innocent Americans who happen to be on a plane. Did he get what he deserved? Damn skippy he did.

The point is now moot.
 

hypocritexposer

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loomixguy said:
The point is now moot.



What Gaddafi’s Death Teaches the Middle East

What can we learn from the death of Libyan dictator Moammar Qadhafi? First, we should note that he is the second Arab dictator to die in the last decade, the first being the Iraqi Saddam Hussein. Both met their demise due to direct Western intervention.

There are three lessons for the region:

1. To get rid of a dictator, you need either Western intervention or the support of the armed forces.

Consider this simple list:

Dictatorships overthrown with Western forces taking the lead: Iraq, Libya

Dictatorships overthrown with the backing of the army: Egypt, Tunisia

Failed revolutions when these two factors are lacking: Algeria, Bahrain, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Yemen.

That shows that it is not popular revolt that changes things in the region.

Dictators must fight or die and concessions don’t help.

The Western view is that revolutions are prevented by moderation and compromise, steps that please the masses and thus discourage them from revolting. This is so deeply ingrained that Western observers simply cannot conceive that approach as anything but a natural law. In contrast, in the Middle East, the political philosophy has been based on the idea that force and intimidation prevail.

With one notable exception, where brilliant maneuvering and concessions (albeit often illusory ones) worked — Morocco — the Middle East has shown that its approach works locally. Even in Turkey, where democratic norms are observed, once in power the Islamist regime has gained ground through toughness and not through concessions. The prisons are full of its opponents.

The event in Eastern Europe that most impressed Arab governments was the assassination in Romania of dictator Nicolae Ceauşescu and his wife, Elena. They knew that this could happen to them. When combined with the lesson from the USSR — how Mikhail Gorbachev’s engagement in reforms brought him down — these events played a central role in destroying the 1990s era of toying with possible moderation. The “old-time religion” of toughness and repression was reaffirmed.

Nowhere has this proven to be truer than in Syria. Despite Western fantasies of moderation and reform from dictator Bashar al-Assad, there has never been the slightest chance of this happening. The whole Obama foreign policy toward Syria was demonstrably foolish.

2. The events of the last year have reinforced this worldview — repress or die. Have no illusions.

An interesting case study of how this works is offered by Aymenn Jawad al-Tamimi in a superb short article, “Assessing Bahrain.” The strength of al-Tamimi’s analysis is that he points out both the real threat (Iranian-backed, radical Islamist Shia opposition) and the tragedy (the regime’s failure to deal with a more moderate Shia faction that wants a constitutional monarchy and isn’t Islamist).

But would it have been possible to work with the latter without ending up having the hardliners triumph? Impossible to say for sure, of course, but the hardline ruling faction in the monarchy wasn’t interested in finding out, and the Saudis certainly didn’t want to take any chances. Hence, they turned to pure repression and are still in power.

3. (Ironically) You can’t trust the West, so be tough and defend yourself

Remember a peculiar fact: even though Gaddafi was generally a horribly repressive anti-American dictator, in his final years he tried making a deal with the Americans. Gaddafi was frightened by the U.S. attack on Iraq in 2003 and didn’t want to be next on the list. So he cooperated, gave up his nuclear and other weapons of mass destruction programs, and reduced his foreign subversive efforts.

That did not save him from being overthrown by the United States, just as it did not save a genuine American ally, President Hosni Mubarak in Egypt. On this point, I’m not advocating anything about what the United States should have done in Libya but just observing how it will be received in the region.

Bashing the West in the current era brings little cost. Here’s a partial list:

Egypt: Obama courts Muslim Brotherhood and is indifferent to anti-Americanism of the newly empowered political forces

Gaza Strip: Terrorist Hamas gets Western support to stay in power, including bashing of Israel’s military operation and pressure on Israel to minimize sanctions.

Lebanon: No opposition to Syria-Iran sponsored forces and Hizballah; readiness to deal with the government they now control; no enforcement of 2006 UN resolution to stop arms smuggling and Hizballah’s return to the south. Incidentally, on the same day Gaddafi dies the first Hizballah delegation is officially received in Moscow.

Palestinian Authority: Refuses negotiations with Israel; refuses compromise; ignores U.S. requests but gets rewarded by the whole world while its enemy Israel is reviled.

Syria: Courted by the Obama administration; protected at the UN by a Russia-China veto, facing only very limited pressure despite massive repression.

Turkey: No punishment for regime’s sabotage of 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq, sabotage of sanctions on Iran, alliance with radical Islamist forces. In fact, Obama administration rewards.

In contrast, allies — Bahrain, Mubarak’s Egypt, Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the moderate oppositions in Iran, Lebanon, and Turkey — are not helped or are even punished by the West and especially the U.S. government.

Thus, the region will note that when Gaddafi was a leading sponsor of terrorism, subversion, and anti-Americanism, he got away with it. When he was on “good terms” with the United States, he lost power. That might not be fair, but it seems to make sense in terms of Middle Eastern political philosophy.

Remember the wisdom of Joseph Heller’s great novel Catch-22 on that point:

Major Danby replied indulgently with a superior smile: “But, Yossarian, suppose everyone felt that way.”

“Then,” said Yossarian, “I’d certainly be a damned fool to feel any other way, wouldn’t I?”

http://pajamasmedia.com/barryrubin/2011/10/20/what-qadhafis-death-teaches-the-middle-east-and-should-teach-the-west/2/
 

Tam

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You can bet if there are war time charges to face for the killing, Obama will be back peddling away from his claims of killing Gaddafi faster than anyone thinks possible. We will be right back to the US took a backseat roll and it was all NATO"S and France's fault he was killed by the hands of their captors. He is ready to take credit for what ever he can but quicker to lay blame when things don't go as planned. You can also bet if the killing of Osama had gone bad he would have been out front of the press blaming Hillary and Panetta for over stepping him and calling for the actions. But since the Seal Team was successful he was johnny on the spot claiming credit and of course without any mention that it was the intelligence system that BUSH SAT UP that contributed the most to the successful Seal mission. If you consider killing a unarmed man a success. I personally think taking the guy into custody and putting him on trial for war crimes like Bush did to Saddam would have been better than just shooting the guy and dumpping the body in the ocean before anyone could verify the death. But considering the way Obama and Holder think they should bring people that hate the US onto US soil to try them in Federal court, better he was shot and killed as to chance him getting off because the Seals didn't read him his rights and the ACLU found out. :roll:

BTW did anyone else find it strange that Obama would go before a room full of press and take credit for the Troops coming home from Iraq by Christmas after a 9 year war, then leave the room before the Press had a chance to ask any questions about why they were ALL coming home and he wasn't leaving any there to aid the Iraqi government in training and security like had been agreed to by Bush when he sign the withdraw agreement before he left office. Would he had told the press the truth that it wasn't his idea to bring them all home it was the Iraqi government's wishes due to his Administrations failures? :?

I keep hearing about how Obama's foreign policies are so great but ARE THEY REALLY?
 

hopalong

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Typical liberal like a couple of posters on here, do not like the questions just leave the room or change the subject...
We see that a lot here from one of our posters that still refuses to tell the truth about the harassment, about the other site and other BIG lies he likes to tell!!



EH?????? any guesses who I am referring to


NO not kolo=jingo=lulu-=allie we know she is irrelevant :D :D :D :D :D
 

TexasBred

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okfarmer said:
The issue is that if you are not living by the law of the land, you are living by the law of the jungle. If this is allowed against others, it will be justifiable to be allowed against us and our citizens without repercussions.

I don't want to live in a world that even the good guys disregard the law.

The end does not justify the means.

He needed to be tried and convicted of the crimes he committed.

Tell that to his "Brothers".
 

katrina

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yeah I bet the Obozo and crew are real proud of what was done to Gaddafi... And to think they had a fit about waterboarding....... :???: Pretty sad...
 

hypocritexposer

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katrina said:
yeah I bet the Obozo and crew are real proud of what was done to Gaddafi... And to think they had a fit about waterboarding....... :???: Pretty sad...


I hope nobody gets the wrong idea that I feel sorry for the tyrant, but as okfarmer says, it appears that the "law of the jungle" is okay if it is a tyrant that you are "taking out", which does send the message to other tyrants that they will have to fight harder to keep power, instead of making the changes that Quadaffi appeared to have made.

You have got to remember that the ones he imprisoned and killed the last few years, are also those that the US/Canada are killing and at war with, in the Middle East. They were classified as "terrorists" by the UN and most democratic countries. It is only after he let them out of prison that all the "uprisings" started. These are the same "rebels" that started killing "blacks" in Libya, when given the opportunity. I have a uneasy feeling that we will see more killings under the new regime, in their fight for "democracy', than we did under the tyranny of Quadaffi.

And as the "West" tries to control more of the finances and resources of Libya, the new regime will also "unfriend" us in a hurry. but hey, at least Europe won't have too purchase any of Canada's "dirty" oilsands, for the time being.

interesting times......
 
A

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I wonder how many of you same folks that are whining over and mourning Quaddaffis violent death were also so upset back when Reagan bombed his compound and home with him and his wife/family barely escaping- and injuring about 60- both military and civilians....

Dead is dead- whether its from a bomb or a bullet in the head...
To me its just too bad the flyboys missed him in 1986...
Glad with the help of Obama's authorization- the flyboys were able to help root him out this time and his own people were able to give him his just deserts..Live a despicable violent life- die a despicable violent death....
 

hopalong

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Oldtimer said:
I wonder how many of you same folks that are whining over and mourning Quaddaffis violent death were also so upset back when Reagan bombed his compound and home with him and his wife/family barely escaping- and injuring about 60- both military and civilians....

Dead is dead- whether its from a bomb or a bullet in the head...
To me its just too bad the flyboys missed him in 1986...
Glad with the help of Obama's authorization- the flyboys were able to help root him out this time and his own people were able to give him his just deserts..Live a despicable violent life- die a despicable violent death....


Once again oldtimer you have your head up your rather large anal passage, point out who these folks are that are whining and mourning of the death!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just anther empty attempt at covering up your hypocritical mind set!!!! :(
 

katrina

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I just think as a civilized country we need to set an example and take the high road on this one. The statement that hillery said was uncalled for.

Soooo Ot this is ok??? http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/middle-east/111024/gaddafi-sodomized-video-gaddafi-sodomy

I wouldn't want to live in your county if you're the sherriff.. You disgusted me..
 

hopalong

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katrina said:
I just think as a civilized country we need to set an example and take the high road on this one. The statement that hillery said was uncalled for.

Soooo Ot this is ok??? http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/middle-east/111024/gaddafi-sodomized-video-gaddafi-sodomy

I wouldn't want to live in your county if you're the sherriff.. You disgusted me..

From what I have heard from a couple of snowbirds that visit my area every year he disgusts a lot of folks in his area!!!
 
A

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katrina said:
I just think as a civilized country we need to set an example and take the high road on this one. The statement that hillery said was uncalled for.

Soooo Ot this is ok??? http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/middle-east/111024/gaddafi-sodomized-video-gaddafi-sodomy

I wouldn't want to live in your county if you're the sherriff.. You disgusted me..
Never saw Hillary's statement...And my spyware tells me not to go to the site you've posted...

But being that you seem to think he was such an upright world leader- I wonder what he did to his people to make them that mad to treat their former leader that bad :???: Did you see the long lines of people waiting to see his body- so they could confirm he was really dead and they had no more to fear from him and his henchmen?...


And I suppose none of the 259 victims aboard Pan Am Flight 103 suffered any mutilation when it exploded in midair :???:


To me- all our country and NATO did was help flush out a snake- and his own people decided what to do with him...
So Katrina- you think sneak attack bombings from 10000 feet - of his house and family- are a more civilized way of killing people :???: Or did you whine and moan when Reagan tried to get him then too?
 

loomixguy

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Oldtimer said:
Did you see the long lines of people waiting to see his body- so they could confirm he was really dead and they had no more to fear from him and his henchmen?...

Doubtful the long lines were there for the purpose you mentioned, Methuselah. They were probably lined up to see the body because it was the first real entertainment they had had in months. What do you suppose there is to do in Libya, exactly? Now they can look forward to public stonings, honor killings, chopping hands and feet off criminals, and, your favorite, having 4 male witnesses for a rape to actually have happened, child brides, arranged and plural marriages, plus sexual dalliances with the occasional camel, donkey, sheep or goat. :shock:

The Stone Age never looked so good! :wink:
 

Steve

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first off.. it was not just a house..

Gadaffy lived at a heavily guarded military compound.. a compound with communication,s anti aircraft batteries and several military units..


even by the UNs wishywashy standards it is and was considered a military compound..


secondly.. the article is posted at huffington post
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/24/gaddafi-sodomized-video_n_1028970.html since you have posted articles from there it must be safe..

thirdly.. I am still grateful gadaffy is dead..

but given the choice, I would have preferred a trial and an execution..

as a free and civilized society we should always prefer the LAW over MOB rule.. even in the worst of cases..
 
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