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Laird Mccabe

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PPRM

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I was in a feed store today and showed a guy those pics of my grey horse. Mentioned the gal was from the Willamette Valley. The guy says, that's where my nephew is at ridin my horse. I started putting two and two together and realized this is the same young man I saw at the Oregon State University Horse Sale. My jaw droppend and I said, 'That kid is nothing short of a hell of a hand."

He attends OSU, they get like 15 head from a ranch that's near Drewsey I believe. They take and start them. The instructor saw Laird on a couple and called the ranch. "There's a mistake, you sent some started ones!" "No we didn't was the reply."

This kid isn't rushing these horses, he just has a great knack. What impresses me is the body language of the horses he starts. The are the most relaxed young horses you'll ever see. He gets them stopping real well and spinning. He always rewards them with a break of some kind when they have done right. These horses get very light to handle. He'll work them and then be on one BSing. Their Body language relaxes like the seasoned horses lined up at a roping when it isn't their turn.

I know I'm going on, but this kid impressed me like noone I've seen in a long time. That day, he seemed like a quet, humble kid, bet his mom is saying, 'What?' LOL.

His uncle went on to say he was leading the Oregon Cutting horse standings this year. Apparently, they decided to change the way they figured it and he dropped back. He asked to see the rulebook and they said, "We don't have one." He quit them from what his uncle said.

This kid and his brother spend a lot of time riding in the ranch country of SE Oregon, not to far from Burns I think,

PPRM
 

Faster horses

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I think it is only fair to give credit where credit is due.
I sure liked reading what you posted about this young man.
He must have impeccable timing. It is so good to read about success
stories in this vein. I like it very much "when the horses matter."
Sometimes that gets lost along the way.

As for the Oregon cutting, shame on them for changing the rules
in the middle of the game!
 

PPRM

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As to the Oregon Cutting Horse deal, I agree, but do keep in mind that the only side of the story I have heard is the Uncle's, LOL.....

It seems like too many youth organizations have gotten to where winning is to big of a focus. A freind of mine provids steers for boys steer riding in Idaho. One kid has come to his house and practiced for a long time. The kid paid his dues and is winning everywhere. Well, he actually won a Open Bull Riding somewhere ( I think La Grande, Oregon). The kid isn't old enough for a drivers permit.

Of course, some parents with younger kids are jealous. Well, here's the deal. He spent the first several years working hard so that he can get this good. Now he's at the top at that age bracket and instead of "donating" to older kids, he's winning. It got ugly. One place they scored a kid that didn't stay on higher than this kid that rode. Some places when they call back for results (oh, you placed third). When he asks what the other kids scored above him, they hang up,


A sad deal,


PPRM
 

Faster horses

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Our daughter always roedeoed. It was fun when she was little, in high school it got very serious.

I like the fun part; and the being involved part. I don't like the "Win or you''re nothing part." We made our daughter practice roping the dummy but we never made her feel like SHE HAD TO WIN. There were kids that cried if they didn't win, parents who cried if their kids didn't win, some shady stuff that went on, mothers who kept stopwatchs to check the official timers watch (even if the time didn't match, what did they think they could do about it?).

It can all be so much FUN, til everyone wants to WIN!
We told our daughter, anyone can be a good winner, you need to be a
good loser. When I was in school, the slogan was, "It doesn't matter if you win or lose, it's how you play the game." I always thought that was a great slogan. It is sure different now.

When our daughter was in 3rd grade, night rodeos were held in our town. There were age groups for barrel racing and pole bending. She was leading the pole bending and the people that put on the rodeo changed the rules in the middle of the summer, so their daughter could win the buckle. (They went from giving points for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, to figuring points depending on how many entries there were.) That's why I said, "shame on them for changing the rules in the middle of the game." We've been there, done that.
 

Chuckie

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oh you've hit on another one of my pet peeves!!!!! politics in youth organizations. there should be NO PLACE for that, but i've found it in everything from girl scouts to 4-H for crying out loud.
it pisses me off so bad that i can hardly stand to put my kids thru it, but like you said, FH, and they won't learn it anywhere but from us, "it's not who wins or loses....". they certainly don't learn it in these organizations!

here's a question i put to the superintendent (and others) in charge of the beef cattle at our local 4-H county show, when looking at the cattle at check-in: who's gonna win the fat cattle show, and why; and who's gonna win the replacement heifer show, and why? (i'm trying to learn here)

well, the most post-legged steer, with the squarest body, and the most post-legged heifer with the squarest body. i said: a steer like that won't hold up in a feedlot very well, would he? and, a heifer like that not only will be too fat for breeding (her function, right?), but those post legs won't carry her too far for too many years will they?

the answer i got: that's what the judges are looking for. well, if that's what we're breeding, i think that pretty soon, we'll have cows that go to town at 5 yrs old instead of 10 or 15. then, they won't last 3 yrs, then they won't last thru 2 calves.

we had a good, long-bodied, not fat heifer with good hock angulation in the replacement class, and she placed 3rd out of three. i didn't have a problem with it 'cause she'll still be making calves (and $$) for YEARS after the heifers that placed 1 & 2. the challenge is teaching the kids that the placing in this deal doesn't matter in real life, because to them, it IS real life. :roll:

told ya it was a pet peeve!!! :evil:
 

Soapweed

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Even though I was in 4-H as a youngster, we have never been very active as far as getting our kids involved in 4-H. It just takes a whole lot of time. I don't like chores, especially involving individual critters. It takes as much work to halter break a couple calves and get them ready for a calf show, as it does to run 200 mama cows.

And then "politics" always seem to be involved. A lot of time it doesn't matter how good a calf is, but what does matter is the brand the calf is wearing. Some of the calves that win a county fair, wouldn't be worth a darn in a feedlot. Individually as show calves they are worth a lot of money. If a person was trying to sell a whole potload like that through a salebarn ring, they wouldn't bring much of a ticket.

But to each their own. If some folks enjoy the show ring, more power to them. If honesty and good sportsmanship aren't adhered to, though, it's a complete exercise in futility.
 

Faster horses

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I don't think it is the kids so much, as the parents.

Jack broke his leg one summer and couldn't do much so he went into the fair and watched the 4-H judging. He came home pretty upset. His comment was, "Those parents faces went from this wide (motioning with his hands) to this long, depending what their kid did in the show ring. They were wringing their hands and everything. Heck, the kids were having a good time, but the parents sure weren't."

He told our daughter right up front that if she had a 4H animal it was hers to care for. He said he wasn't gonna kick some kid in the butt to take care of her critter every morning. He'd turn it out first. He would help her at times she needed help, but basically it was up to her. That was a far cry from what happened other places. He meant it too.

Same with rodeo. He told her that we would haul her, but he expected her to rope the dummy every day. That was her part of the deal. She did, we did, and it turned out well. She is a good roper yet today. Won the Wyo. ACTRA Women's Team Roping a year or so ago. The payoff was that she is still enjoying the 'fruits of her labor" so to speak.

We lie to these kids so much. I see it everyday. Pat Parelli says raising kids is easy. Same theory as with horses. "Say what you mean and mean what you say." Simple.

Gosh, how'd I get on this rant?
 

Chuckie

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same way i got on mine :) i think it sucks that ppl with the $$ to spend 15000 on a club calf get to win over a home-bred/raised calf, but that's how it is. and what does it teach our kids??? that money can buy you love..... :cry:
 
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One of the things I am seeing with a couple of seedstock people is that they sell club calves to the 4-H kids for a big price- then they keep and raise the calf for the price of feed- halterbreak it-( kid may come out on weekends and help- may not) - they trim, comb, and fit the animal for the 4-H show... Only thing the kid does is show it.... Then if the cattle dealer gets several champions and reserves and blues, they can use it for advertisement in their bull and heifer sales...

Few years ago a gal that won grand champion market beef told my daughter that she had never even saw her steer until Fair time...Could care less about loading him up for slaughter-- while some of the kids that had worked so hard and became close to their animals had huge tears running down their cheeks....Kind of stinks.....
 

Chuckie

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and i can promise you, there is nothing worse than getting these calves at the kill plant. they don't drive, they will lick the knocker, but they remind the help that these animals aren't just a number, they deserve a little respect, as BEINGS. it's too easy nowadays to think of these cattle as numbers and $, and nothing else.

some of us do know what it is to kill an animal, to see the life go out of them and to respect that. not enough, but some. to know that their sacrifice is to our good. i think everyone in this country should have to not only raise an animal, but participate in it's end. and then eat it; it's the way the world is: survival. especially in this country. just my opinion...
 

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My mother was an extension agent for 35+ years, I put in my 10 years in 4-H and am now a county beef superintendant and I have seen all the thing you folks have described and it is very discouraging, but, one day I was griping about the 4-H beef program and next thing I knew I was beef superintendant. :)
Now I'm not going to pretend that we as a beef programs have fixed all the problems but we have darn sure improved things, and even on the worst days just one thank you from a member has kept me coming back.

P.S. It has never been just one thank you either

So I guess I'm saying if its broke, try and fix it, even if you cant get it fixed they way you want, just one sincere thank you from a 4-H'er will make your day and maybe even your year.
 

Skrewk

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Chuckie said:
that's all well and good, gives a person hope, keep on fighting the ggod fight, right?[/quote

Exactly!
Them darn kids can give a fella a reason for getting up in mornings.
 
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Skrewk said:
My mother was an extension agent for 35+ years, I put in my 10 years in 4-H and am now a county beef superintendant and I have seen all the thing you folks have described and it is very discouraging, but, one day I was griping about the 4-H beef program and next thing I knew I was beef superintendant. :)
Now I'm not going to pretend that we as a beef programs have fixed all the problems but we have darn sure improved things, and even on the worst days just one thank you from a member has kept me coming back.

P.S. It has never been just one thank you either

So I guess I'm saying if its broke, try and fix it, even if you cant get it fixed they way you want, just one sincere thank you from a 4-H'er will make your day and maybe even your year.

Good for you Skrewk-- And I agree that their are still 4-H and FFA kids that are learning a lot- and doing the work on their own...I pretty much told my kids the same thing FH's hubby told his--- that they needed to do the work too....Everyone of my kids knows one saying that they've heard 1000 times over- your horse eats before you do!! I would help them all I could, but the final product was up to them......

I often wonder what these parents that buy these kids the steers they never see, or the $10,000 horses that live at the trainers, think they are teaching them......
 
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Chuckie said:
and i can promise you, there is nothing worse than getting these calves at the kill plant. they don't drive, they will lick the knocker, but they remind the help that these animals aren't just a number, they deserve a little respect, as BEINGS. it's too easy nowadays to think of these cattle as numbers and $, and nothing else.

some of us do know what it is to kill an animal, to see the life go out of them and to respect that. not enough, but some. to know that their sacrifice is to our good. i think everyone in this country should have to not only raise an animal, but participate in it's end. and then eat it; it's the way the world is: survival. especially in this country. just my opinion...

Chuckie- I usually buy a market lamb at the 4-H sale-- I was raised around sheep and like lamb but haven't owned any for 30 years...

One year I bought a young neighbor girls first 4-H lamb- when she came to thank me after the sale she had tears running all over the place with the idea of parting with that lamb... I talked to her folks a few minutes later and told them they could take it home if they wanted and keep it- but they said no, it would go to slaughter with the rest- that she needed to learn about the real world....Sometimes those first lessons are the toughest.......
 

Faster horses

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Well, we KNOW what it is teaching them and many have learned the lesson well. It is evident when they don't show up for work, when they don't go to bed at a decent time, when they just aren't RESPONSIBLE citizens in general. Their irresponisible actions reflect what they have gleaned thus far in life.

Not all kids, now I don't mean to lump them together. But far too many, I fear have not been taught self-discipline and responsibility.

I have done my time working with kids. And like skrewk mentioned, it can be a heady experience; or it can be a headache, depending on the kids.
 

sw

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How did we get into 4-H after starting out with PPRM? Anyway, just as shrewk said, a thank you from a little kid goes a long long ways, we put alot of time into 4-H and only for the thank yous from the kids and in spite of their mothers. Had council meeting the other night and some of these mothers just don't know when to quit whining about the prize their kid did not get and how unfair we are, but in reality they want us to raise their kids for them. I have made some friends with so many of these kids through the years and it is fun to see them grow up form the little kid with the tears after the sale to the young adults that can't wait to get the sale over with and get on with life. :lol:
 

sw

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oh yea, I forgot to mention that we know who does the work, you can always tell plus we have a "herdsman" award that is judged in an interview with the animal present. No way can one of those kids that bought their way into the fair can win that. Also, just to see some of the older kids helping out the new ones also proves to me that my time has been well spent as those older kids got the message. We started about 12 years ago having our kids take a plate of homemade cookies into their animals buyer and personally thanking them. Now, almost every buyer at our fair expects that treatment from all of the kids and by golly alot of them are getting it :!:
 

Chuckie

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excuse me. i have to take issue with the "mothers" comment. perhaps it's because i'm a single parent, and i don't have the $$ to buy a "winning" club calf, we just have home-bred cattle to work with.

where are the dads in your club? are all the men in your part of the country mute? or are they all just single parent homes with only mothers to head the household? or does the plate of cookies buy something?

don't you try to put the lack of leadership/ethics and morals on the women, ok? it takes two. and if there aren't two, then ONE has to do both. you try it once. see if you can be both a mom and a dad, see how good you are at it and then judge those of us who have to do both.

sounds to me like you're kinda, shall we say, displacing blame on to the easiest target (mothers), while not taking responsibility for results.

i will agree that there are mothers (and fathers!!) who feel that their kids should win no matter what, and those parents should just shut up (but they are usually the most vocal about 'it's not fair'). but please DO NOT lump us parents who are single (by choice or fate), with the whiners in general.
 

Red Barn Angus

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I used to attend the 4-H sales to buy several animals on behalf of the bank I worked for. Generally we would try to buy animals that belonged to customers kids but every now and then a youngster whose parents were not well known would have an animal that was not getting much of a bid and I would bid the price up just to try and even things up. Now and then I'd buy one of them and I always kind of enjoyed that. It seemed like the well known parents or the bigger spenders would have the highest bids on their kids animals regardless of the color of the ribbons won. I very much admire the 4-H program but don't care much for the politics of it. Sounds like it is the same everywhere.
 

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