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Let's just talk about sin then........

Goodpasture

Well-known member
sin /sɪn/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sin] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, sinned, sin·ning.
–noun
1. transgression of divine law: the sin of Adam.
2. any act regarded as such a transgression, esp. a willful or deliberate violation of some religious or moral principle.
3. any reprehensible or regrettable action, behavior, lapse, etc.; great fault or offense: It's a sin to waste time.
–verb (used without object)
4. to commit a sinful act.
5. to offend against a principle, standard, etc.
–verb (used with object)
6. to commit or perform sinfully: He sinned his crimes without compunction.
7. to bring, drive, etc., by sinning: He sinned his soul to perdition.


Sin /sin/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[seen] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
the Akkadian god of the moon: the counterpart of the Sumerian Nanna.


sīn /sin/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[seen] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
the 12th letter of the Arabic alphabet.


sin /sin/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[seen] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. the 22nd letter of the Hebrew alphabet.
2. the consonant sound represented by this letter.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Sin

Assuming we are only talking about the first definition. I do not see a "degree" of sin. So I feel we can assume that all sin is reprehensible. Further I feel that Jesus died for all sin. Therefore, all sin among Christians is forgiven.

So, is a person practicing homosexuality any more sinful than a person that commits murder or cheats on his income tax or tells white lies? Aren't ALL a "transgression of divine law: the sin of Adam" but, having accepted Jesus, haven't ALL "transgression of divine law: the sin of Adam" been forgiven?

It seems to me that the typical homophobic Christian is transgressing more divine laws than a practicing homosexual. The (so called) moralistic Christian is passing judgment (Judge not lest Ye be judged), they are gossiping, they are denying God's ability to forgive.

Frankly, some of the homosexuals I know and appreciate are far more moral and far more compassionate and far more Christian than some of the "so called" examples I have seen on this forum.
 

Goodpasture

Well-known member
By what authority do you challenge me? I cited the source of some peoples standards....yours among them. Do you need interpretation? Or are you capable of defending your prejudices from your standard (or lack of one). Perhaps if you showed evidence of being Christian, I would be more forthcoming.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
Goodpasture said:
By what authority do you challenge me? I cited the source of some peoples standards....yours among them. Do you need interpretation? Or are you capable of defending your prejudices from your standard (or lack of one). Perhaps if you showed evidence of being Christian, I would be more forthcoming.
How hypocritical of using someones standards against them when you don't believe the standard to be true. You're a peach there missionary.
 

Goodpasture

Well-known member
Red Robin said:
How hypocritical of using someones standards against them when you don't believe the standard to be true. You're a peach there missionary.
And you're a bigot, there, hypocrite......got anything to say besides insults? Didn't think so. The last thing you care to do is engage in ideas and facts. You appear to be a lot happier just calling names and denigrating others. Perhaps you think that elevates your stature. It might, but only among others equally morally and intellectually deficient.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
Goodpasture said:
Red Robin said:
How hypocritical of using someones standards against them when you don't believe the standard to be true. You're a peach there missionary.
And you're a bigot, there, hypocrite......got anything to say besides insults? Didn't think so. The last thing you care to do is engage in ideas and facts. You appear to be a lot happier just calling names and denigrating others. Perhaps you think that elevates your stature. It might, but only among others equally morally and intellectually deficient.
You continually point out others intellectual deficiency and brag about your well roundedness and superior intellect but it took you one post and 7 minutes to contradict your own interpretation of scripture. Here you say

"The (so called) moralistic Christian is passing judgment (Judge not lest Ye be judged), they are gossiping, they are denying God's ability to forgive."

and the next post you say...

"Perhaps if you showed evidence of being Christian, I would be more forthcoming."


The real perhaps is perhaps you aren't as bright as you consider yourself to be.

You have yourself a nice day there missionary.
 

Goodpasture

Well-known member
And another option would be that you are confounded by anything beyond your own narrow minded bigotry, thus seeking the comfort of others as narrow minded and bigoted rather than open yourself up for dialog and discourse that might move you from your comfort zone of self complacency into an awareness of God's truths and desires for your life.

But don't let your inferiority complex keep you from posting. Provided you can do so with the openness, tolerance, and love of a true Christian.
 

jigs

Well-known member
Goodpasture said:
some of the homosexuals I know and appreciate are far more compassionate than some I have seen on this forum.


one wonders just how "well" you know them.....
 

CattleArmy

Well-known member
Goodpasture said:
" Frankly, some of the homosexuals I know and appreciate are far more moral and far more compassionate and far more Christian than some of the "so called" examples I have seen on this forum.

I agree 100%.


P.S. LOL at your Kansas comment
 

jigs

Well-known member
Goodpasture said:
Why would you wonder that? It isn't as though I am from Kansas or something.

just because KU has the nations highest ratio of homosexual students, don't mean you can lump us all together.......
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Definitions of sin out of a dictionary, do not even come close to explaining the degrees of sin and how it is dealt with in the bible.

In many cases certain sins are just as bad as Homosexuality. There are sins that occur due to our imperfect condition. Such if we loose our temper if someone cuts us off when driving, Or if we see a Hot woman we might have impure thoughts. Most of these can be forgiven for by a general heartfelt repentance and effort to not do them on regular basis

But then there are sins that are more specific such as Murder, Theft and Homosexuality. These need a specific repentance and to be turned away from. If they are not and you willfully continue them then you will not inherit Gods Kingdom.

Ps. who is going to give credibility to an OU fan on an Agriculture based website? Ever heard of OSU? I have never met an Oklahoma Rancher, Farmer or General AG person that is an OU fan. Same with Kansas never met one that was a KU fan.
 

Goodpasture

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
Definitions of sin out of a dictionary, do not even come close to explaining the degrees of sin and how it is dealt with in the bible.

In many cases certain sins are just as bad as Homosexuality. There are sins that occur due to our imperfect condition. Such if we loose our temper if someone cuts us off when driving, Or if we see a Hot woman we might have impure thoughts. Most of these can be forgiven for by a general heartfelt repentance and effort to not do them on regular basis

But then there are sins that are more specific such as Murder, Theft and Homosexuality. These need a specific repentance and to be turned away from. If they are not and you willfully continue them then you will not inherit Gods Kingdom.
Since when do you need specific repentance? Not according to my Bible. Mine says "FOr God so loved the world that he gave hi sonly begotton Son, that whosoever believes in Him, SHALL NOT PERISH, but SHALL HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.

I don't see any exceptions or caveats there.............


aplusmnt said:
Ps. who is going to give credibility to an OU fan on an Agriculture based website? Ever heard of OSU? I have never met an Oklahoma Rancher, Farmer or General AG person that is an OU fan. Same with Kansas never met one that was a KU fan.
Sorry to hear you don't get out more.........
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Goodpasture said:
Since when do you need specific repentance? Not according to my Bible. Mine says "FOr God so loved the world that he gave hi sonly begotton Son, that whosoever believes in Him, SHALL NOT PERISH, but SHALL HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.

I don't see any exceptions or caveats there.............

How about Acts 17:30?

"Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent"

John 3:16 that you quoted is one of the most important scriptures of the bible, but it is also one of the most wrongly applied scriptures also. Many people have misapplied it to as you to mean that as long as you believe in Jesus that you get a free get out of jail card.

believeth in this scripture is a verb one of action.

Even Satan believes in Jesus, But I doubt he is going to inherit Gods Kingdom. :wink:

Believing in Jesus is just the first step to salvation, Jesus outlines many other things to do also if you look at all the scriptures.
 

Goodpasture

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
John 3:16 that you quoted is one of the most important scriptures of the bible, but it is also one of the most wrongly applied scriptures also. Many people have misapplied it to as you to mean that as long as you believe in Jesus that you get a free get out of jail card.
Nonsense. show me where it has been misapplied. Unless you include the entire Southern Baptist Convention as some sort of mistaken cult. But then I hold my opinion as valid as any on earth. And in MY opinion, absent a presentation of fact, it says what it means. If you believe, you get eternal life. Period. It is reinforced in Romans.


aplusmnt said:
How about Acts 17:30?

"Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent"
And having repented and sought and received forgiveness, does not require repeated petitioning for forgiveness.......Jesus died for all sin and when you accepted Him, you were forgiven all sin. Past present and future.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
I would challenge everybody to look up the passages in the Bible that deal with homosexuality and you'll find that generally, even in the same sentence, it also mentiones adultry, fornication, etc....

I'm not homophopic because "phobic" relates to a phobia, or fear, and I'm not afraid of them. Instead, I say I'm homodisgustic. However, I dare say most Americans have had sex before marrage (including me) and that puts us in the category of fornicators and it looks to me that God has homosexuality and fornication on the same level. I don't like that because, in my eyes, homosexuality is much worse - but my eyes are not the ones that count.
 

CattleArmy

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
I would challenge everybody to look up the passages in the Bible that deal with homosexuality and you'll find that generally, even in the same sentence, it also mentiones adultry, fornication, etc....

I'm not homophopic because "phobic" relates to a phobia, or fear, and I'm not afraid of them. Instead, I say I'm homodisgustic. However, I dare say most Americans have had sex before marrage (including me) and that puts us in the category of fornicators and it looks to me that God has homosexuality and fornication on the same level. I don't like that because, in my eyes, homosexuality is much worse - but my eyes are not the ones that count.
\


Sandhusker you made several good points.

Excluding the disgustic.....but every person is intitled to their opinion.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Goodpasture said:
Nonsense. show me where it has been misapplied. Unless you include the entire Southern Baptist Convention as some sort of mistaken cult. But then I hold my opinion as valid as any on earth. And in MY opinion, absent a presentation of fact, it says what it means. If you believe, you get eternal life. Period. It is reinforced in Romans.



And having repented and sought and received forgiveness, does not require repeated petitioning for forgiveness.......Jesus died for all sin and when you accepted Him, you were forgiven all sin. Past present and future.


I would not call them a cult but that does not mean they are correct in their beliefs either. For you to say they are then you would be calling the Catholic faith a cult because they do not believe in once saved always saved.


Goodpasture said:
And having repented and sought and received forgiveness, does not require repeated petitioning for forgiveness.......Jesus died for all sin and when you accepted Him, you were forgiven all sin. Past present and future.

Matt 10:22 shows it is not the person that is saved once and then always saved that will inherit Gods kingdom it is he that endures to the end.

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved

Or in 1 Cor 9:24-27 Paul tells the congregation to keep at their service like they are running a race. In versus 27 he mentions how he has did so, so that he would not be rejected! If he was once saved always saved, why would he be concerned about being rejected on judgement day?

Revelation 2:10 shows that you must be faithful till death to get the crown of life

10Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life


The thought of once saved always saved is ridiculous. That would mean that once a person accepted God then they could do anything they wanted. They could go out and molest some child and still inherit Gods Kingdom? I DO NOT THINK SO!

If we have not accepted Gods word we should repent and accept it. If we have already did that and we stray by committing some serious sin then we should repent and turn away from what we are doing bad.

No body has their ticket punched, otherwise their would be no need for good works. Once saved always saved is just a way for some preachers to use John 3:16 to tickle your ears and tell you what you want to hear.
 

Goodpasture

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
.......... then you would be calling the Catholic faith a cult because they do not believe in once saved always saved.
Among a LOT of other things, yep....pretty much a cult........

aplusmnt said:
No body has their ticket punched, otherwise their would be no need for good works.
Don't be absurd. Pagans, Heathens, Atheists, Buddhists, Sikhs.......everyone prefers to do good works. It seems (in this country, anyway) to be the "Christians" that use the Bible to excuse bad works......blowing up Federal Buildings and abortion clinics, yelling at pregnant girls, denying funding of medical care to children, failing to care for the needy, mainstreaming (putting on the street) the mentally ill, etc.......Jesus said to "suffer the little children." Not "make the little children suffer."

aplusmnt said:
Once saved always saved is just a way for some preachers to use John 3:16 to tickle your ears and tell you what you want to hear.
And requiring you to return week after week for repentance is simply another way to get you back into the building where they can get into your pockets. Why is the Catholic Church the richest organization in the world (richer even, than Wal-mart)? Didn't Jesus say to get rid of your earthly wealth and help those that can't help themselves?
 
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