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Let's stir it up some...

rider

Well-known member
Ben Roberts said:
rider said:
There is fairness, justice, and doing the right thing.

But do we know what the right thing is?

Rider, What you say is true, in the emotional world of life. Corporations and the justice system, don't have emotions. Corporations exist only for their bottom line, and the justice system works only for those, who have deep pockets. It makes no difference who or what, is right or wrong.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

Couldn't agree more...

Going up against large corporations & govt is like going against the majority belief in the nation. Little to no effect... What we say or do is going to do little to influence change in our country (or abroad). The monster operates in a very different (cruel and unfair) fashion.

Things that are important in life are family, friends, and coming to an understanding that each of us individually must choose the right thing to do. Hopefully, when individuals commit to trying to be positive, respectful, and civil in their small settings, the overriding probelms of govt and large corporations seem miniscule to our everyday life.
 

Ben Roberts

Well-known member
rider said:
Ben Roberts said:
rider said:
There is fairness, justice, and doing the right thing.

But do we know what the right thing is?

Rider, What you say is true, in the emotional world of life. Corporations and the justice system, don't have emotions. Corporations exist only for their bottom line, and the justice system works only for those, who have deep pockets. It makes no difference who or what, is right or wrong.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

Couldn't agree more...

Going up against large corporations & govt is like going against the majority belief in the nation. Little to no effect... What we say or do is going to do little to influence change in our country (or abroad). The monster operates in a very different (cruel and unfair) fashion.

Things that are important in life are family, friends, and coming to an understanding that each of us individually must choose the right thing to do. Hopefully, when individuals commit to trying to be positive, respectful, and civil in their small settings, the overriding probelms of govt and large corporations seem miniscule to our everyday life.

Rider, my daughter called me on fathers-day and ask me a question, "dad why are you so hard-headed, everytime I did something wrong, mom always said, your just like your dad hard-headed". I answered her with all honesty of why, I'm the way I am. First I told her, that being hard-headed, was not a disease. This country stands on the shoulders of hard-headed men and women and she should be proud of who she is. Also understanding that through your life, you often stand alone, with few frends but the friends you have are true friends.

Rider, I don't want to go up against large corporations (for the very reason you have stated) little to no effect. I also don't want to go to Washington, DC and ask for their help (again for the same reasons you have stated) what I do want to do, is make a honest living, for my family and secure a future for my children and grand-children in the cattle industry, if that is the path they choose to follow.

In 1775, many young men and boys, fought for two things in this country, freedom and the hope of a better future, for themselves and their families and are we not all better off, because they did. I tell many young couples today, that if our fore-fathers gave up half as fast as we do, they would still be in St. Joseph, Missouri, saying West-Ward-Ho.

I understand those that don't want to fight, what I don't understand, is that those that choose not to fight, will not support those that are fighting for them, so they can have freedom and the hope for a brighter future.

I for one, am going to fight, for my family and neighbors future.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
Ben said:
I understand those that don't want to fight, what I don't understand, is that those that choose not to fight, will not support those that are fighting for them, so they can have freedom and the hope for a brighter future.

Well said, Ben...and there are consumers that will help in our fight. Their numbers are increasing each day with FDA's and USDA's sloppy work!
 

rider

Well-known member
Ben Roberts said:
rider said:
Ben Roberts said:
Rider, What you say is true, in the emotional world of life. Corporations and the justice system, don't have emotions. Corporations exist only for their bottom line, and the justice system works only for those, who have deep pockets. It makes no difference who or what, is right or wrong.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

Couldn't agree more...

Going up against large corporations & govt is like going against the majority belief in the nation. Little to no effect... What we say or do is going to do little to influence change in our country (or abroad). The monster operates in a very different (cruel and unfair) fashion.

Things that are important in life are family, friends, and coming to an understanding that each of us individually must choose the right thing to do. Hopefully, when individuals commit to trying to be positive, respectful, and civil in their small settings, the overriding probelms of govt and large corporations seem miniscule to our everyday life.

Rider, my daughter called me on fathers-day and ask me a question, "dad why are you so hard-headed, everytime I did something wrong, mom always said, your just like your dad hard-headed". I answered her with all honesty of why, I'm the way I am. First I told her, that being hard-headed, was not a disease. This country stands on the shoulders of hard-headed men and women and she should be proud of who she is. Also understanding that through your life, you often stand alone, with few frends but the friends you have are true friends.

Rider, I don't want to go up against large corporations (for the very reason you have stated) little to no effect. I also don't want to go to Washington, DC and ask for their help (again for the same reasons you have stated) what I do want to do, is make a honest living, for my family and secure a future for my children and grand-children in the cattle industry, if that is the path they choose to follow.

In 1775, many young men and boys, fought for two things in this country, freedom and the hope of a better future, for themselves and their families and are we not all better off, because they did. I tell many young couples today, that if our fore-fathers gave up half as fast as we do, they would still be in St. Joseph, Missouri, saying West-Ward-Ho.

I understand those that don't want to fight, what I don't understand, is that those that choose not to fight, will not support those that are fighting for them, so they can have freedom and the hope for a brighter future.

I for one, am going to fight, for my family and neighbors future.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

You seem to be talking out of two sides of your mouth. You say that you are not going to go up against corp or gov, and that you want to be in support of your family and neighbors. But then you say you are going to fight. What does this mean? You are going to fight those issues and people on this forum? Rally other people on Ranchers to get new energy and excitement into the fight?

To what end... So that those people who do want to go to Wash can get frustrated with the same illogical bigwigs?

I am not saying that there does not need to be a purveying attitude about what it means to make a better future. But who and what is really going to make the difference? And then, at what cost?

I am not willing to put my family through the drugery and hopelessness of that fight. Rather I choose to find hope in the good things that are right here beside me. My husband, children, community, good old friends from all my walks of life-- these are the precious gems that will last forever.

My hope for the future does not lie in the material things of this world, including justice and fairness. Because in this world it is all relative, temporal, and continually redefined. As a nation, we are not ever going to get it "right." Rather I put my hope in God, for a greater cause.. We can all have freedom and justice in Him.
 

Ben Roberts

Well-known member
RobertMac said:
Ben said:
I understand those that don't want to fight, what I don't understand, is that those that choose not to fight, will not support those that are fighting for them, so they can have freedom and the hope for a brighter future.

Well said, Ben...and there are consumers that will help in our fight. Their numbers are increasing each day with FDA's and USDA's sloppy work!

RobertMac, what you say about the consumers, is so true, everyday I get calls for beef and the reason they give for calling are all the same. We have two small grand kids that I hope will want this farm someday, what I'm building for them now, I believe they will be proud of.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
RobertMac said:
Red Robin said:
So gentlemen, I don't see any plans put forth to keep (or make) the U.S. competative in the world beef market. Does that mean you don't have any ideas or that you don't perceive there is a problem?

RR, I've been busy lately (and today) and have read the rest of this thread, but I wanted to give you something to think about...

We are slap dab in the middle of the largest beef market in the world...double the size of the next biggest market. Beef demand has been on a general decline for almost thirty years! Wouldn't the smartest thing we could do, would be to work on expanding our own market share here in the USA?????? 96% of the world population may live outside the USA, but the vast majority can't afford our beef at a price where we, the cattle producers, can make a reasonable profit. And most of those that can afford our beef, don't allow us to import to them. The question is where should we be putting our efforts...my opinion is that looking to expand exports will do more to help multi-nationals than producers.

Got to go for now.
I'd agree with some or all of that Robertmac but how effective is our new sales pitch to expand our market when basically, we're selling beef, much like Canadian beef? Why should Americans pay more for our beef? How about Brazilian beef ? When they reach the same quality and have "tyson" quality controls in place which are the same as U.S. beef , will or should Americans pay more? The cost of doing business is much less in Brazil and some less in Canada than yours.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
Before you fellas go blowing hockey all over the walls, my point is that the U.S. needs to have a superior product , in large enough volume to satisfy our market, before the consumer will remain loyal when they pay more for our product.
 

Ben Roberts

Well-known member
Red Robin, how do you see that the cost of doing business in Canada is less? The US will never have that superior product you think of, as long as the packers are feeding cattle on the scale, that they are feeding on now.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
Thank you RR for your insight.
I am afraid the slight advantage that Canada might have will be lost in regulations. We will need to have a high end product as our enhanced traceability, enhanced feed ban and stricter SRM measures are going a long way in making us uncompetitive. They may even drive much of the packing industry south AGAIN.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
Ben Roberts said:
Red Robin, how do you see that the cost of doing business in Canada is less? The US will never have that superior product you think of, as long as the packers are feeding cattle on the scale, that they are feeding on now.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts
I said the cost of business is less than Robertmacs. I would guess that the cost of doing business in the cattle country in Canada is less than doing business in the cattle country of the U.S. though but I could be wrong. I have seen some very productive realestate in Canada that is way under the price of our productive realestate here. The packers aren't breeding the cattle Ben. The quality of our stock rests on the breeders, purebred breeders first.
 

Ben Roberts

Well-known member
Rider, I've been accused of alot of things, but never, talking out of both sides of my mouth.

I believe that the past history has proven, that organizations in the cattle industry, that have gone to Washington, DC have accomplished very little in favor of the family producer.

I'm not about to try and compete with the multi-national corporations, on their campus, that has been proven to be fatal, to many that have tried.

What I have done though, is change the way I market my crops, I don't sell any grain into the commodity market. I grind all of the grain I raise for livestock feed and sell the livestock I feed direct to the consumer.

That same marketing strategy would work, for all livestock producers, if they would organize into a cooperative association nation wide. We need to change the way we market our products.

Rider, you say that you are not willing to put your family through the drugery and hopelessness of that fight, so be it, don't. I'm not going to put my family through the drugery and hopelessness, of the control, of the multi-national corporations, at any cost.

I also don't need material things in my life, and what you say about we are never going to get it "right" as a nation, dosen't mean I can't try to make it right and leave this world a better place after I'm gone. I pray everyday for strength,guidance and wisdom and have faith in God that my prayers are answered.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts
 

Ben Roberts

Well-known member
Red Robin said:
Ben Roberts said:
Red Robin, how do you see that the cost of doing business in Canada is less? The US will never have that superior product you think of, as long as the packers are feeding cattle on the scale, that they are feeding on now.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts
I said the cost of business is less than Robertmacs. I would guess that the cost of doing business in the cattle country in Canada is less than doing business in the cattle country of the U.S. though but I could be wrong. I have seen some very productive realestate in Canada that is way under the price of our productive realestate here. The packers aren't breeding the cattle Ben. The quality of our stock rests on the breeders, purebred breeders first.

Red Robin, in your post that I responded to, were you talking about quality of cattle or of meat? Also if you believe packers are not breeding cattle, you should do some research.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
RR said:
I said the cost of business is less than Robertmacs.

Didn't know you were clairvoyant!!!! :eek: :shock: :wink:
What are my cost?



Seems to me cattlemen miss something on this quality issue...what is the price premium for ground beef from a prime carcass? roast?

The loin where most of the quality premium is derived, is only about 25% of the carcass.

The point being that ground beef is the single largest product we produce...we increase demand for it and we increase $$$ in the entire beef complex. Yet our promotional segment sits back and lets our single largest consumer, the fast food industry, get slammed every day for selling an unhealthy product. This is a direct reflection on ground beef, our single largest product...the beef industry...and producers!

I believe that ground beef is one of, if not the most healthy food humans can eat. If you do the research, you will learn that our bodies need animal fats to be healthy. Atkins proved that animal fats (meats) don't make people fat...in fact a high meat diet (and low carb) causes weight lose. We have to change public perception to the fact that all beef is a high nutritious, healthy food.

We will always have the high choice/prime steak markets (and we can and need to expand those markets), but we have to sell the rest of the animal. 25% of a carcass can't carry the rest and keep us profitable. We also need exports to sell cuts that are under valued in our market...such as liver, tongue, trip,...ect.

Quality has to mean more to consumers than just a prime steak!
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Red Robin said:
RobertMac said:
Red Robin said:
So gentlemen, I don't see any plans put forth to keep (or make) the U.S. competative in the world beef market. Does that mean you don't have any ideas or that you don't perceive there is a problem?

RR, I've been busy lately (and today) and have read the rest of this thread, but I wanted to give you something to think about...

We are slap dab in the middle of the largest beef market in the world...double the size of the next biggest market. Beef demand has been on a general decline for almost thirty years! Wouldn't the smartest thing we could do, would be to work on expanding our own market share here in the USA?????? 96% of the world population may live outside the USA, but the vast majority can't afford our beef at a price where we, the cattle producers, can make a reasonable profit. And most of those that can afford our beef, don't allow us to import to them. The question is where should we be putting our efforts...my opinion is that looking to expand exports will do more to help multi-nationals than producers.

Got to go for now.
I'd agree with some or all of that Robertmac but how effective is our new sales pitch to expand our market when basically, we're selling beef, much like Canadian beef? Why should Americans pay more for our beef? How about Brazilian beef ? When they reach the same quality and have "tyson" quality controls in place which are the same as U.S. beef , will or should Americans pay more? The cost of doing business is much less in Brazil and some less in Canada than yours.


When you talk about another country producing goods cheaper than in the U.S., you are not counting all the costs that go into those goods. In the U.S. we spend more money than the rest of the world for national security and defense. We go to more places in the world flexing this muscle to protect "home interests"--often at the expense of indigenous populations.

Under these circumstances, and the "good credit of the govt." based on our tax base, land in the U.S. will be higher than the rest of the world (with a few exceptions). We have a higher standard of living and more security in this country. The world would rather have a safe haven in the U.S. if something big goes on. Why do you think the Shah of Iran came to the U.S.? What about the Saudi family--even Bin Laden's? With much of our deficit being financed from overseas, our interest rates are relatively low. This means the borrowed money costs less which means hard assets like land can be leveraged higher.

On the labor side, we have higher labor costs for many of the same reasons. We have government safety nets, insurance, govt. programs for drought, floods, etc.. We have labor laws that protect our society against the abuses of greedy capitalists who will exploit anything they can---even children. Our labor will be higher than the rest of the world.

We have more political liberties in this country. Many countries in the world are still very repressive---and yes---even communist. Environmental laws are different as we are learning with the melamine scandal. The recourse for these type of frauds are different in the U.S. than in China. Do you think that the Chinese will end up paying for the melamine scandals?

Environmental is another big one.

I could go on and on.

The cheapest price in the world has additional costs. We have to foot a lot of these costs because of the instability it brings to the world and our willingness to exert military force when it comes to our interests. We pay off a lot of countries like Egypt, formerly Iraq, Afghanistan and others. Then we have to pay for our military to go in and look out for our interests.

RR, when we go for the lowest cost products in the world, we are selling a little of our own success. If we do not at the same time require our trading partners to come up to our standards, we will continually use repressive governments to live on the cheap, all the while allowing sanctuary to those who are doing the oppressing.

We can never compare our production in textiles, for instance, to those in China in pure monetary terms. There is so much more at steak. The problem is that we have had some sellout politicians who want to spend more than they take in, finance it with foreign credit put on our children so it doesn't affect our economy as much, and use the wealth of our nation to enforce our "interests" (business interests) and not our interests in furthering democracy and the welfare of the people of the world.
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
Right on target, Ben :clap:

Ben Roberts said:
I'm not about to try and compete with the multi-national corporations, on their campus, that has been proven to be fatal, to many that have tried.

What I have done though, is change the way I market my crops, I don't sell any grain into the commodity market. I grind all of the grain I raise for livestock feed and sell the livestock I feed direct to the consumer.

That same marketing strategy would work, for all livestock producers, if they would organize into a cooperative association nation wide. We need to change the way we market our products.

There's your strategy Red Robin...what say you????

The only part I question is the nation wide association...I think we start local with producer associations, but some areas will have to look nation wide for distribution from the start...like the plains.
 

rider

Well-known member
Counting the cost... Now I can really relate to that issue. We pay more in the end than is evident in the present. We do have to watch how and where we spend our ______ . When we don't, we find ourselves _________ .
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
RobertMac said:
RR said:
I said the cost of business is less than Robertmacs.

Didn't know you were clairvoyant!!!! :eek: :shock: :wink:
What are my cost?
You're right Robertmac. I don't know the cost of raising beef in Mississippi. I barely know my costs. Good luck to you. I hope you have a long and profitable run in the cattle business. I was in this for the discussion, not the burden of trying to change anyones mind. Speaking of Bens strategy, I guess I'd be out. I don't raise any grain. Marketing direct to consumers is also very cumbersome. Lastly Ben , I am very well aware of the breeding being done by the packers. It'll increase as time goes on. You surely arent insuinating that packer bred cattle is of a large enough scale to effect the overall quality of American beef.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
Econ I've tried to read your post a few times. It reminds me of the NOAA weather radio. I can listen to it all day in that monotone voice they talk with and at the end of the day, I still don't know the forcast. Hard to concentrate or something. I guess it's an attention problem on my part.
 

Ben Roberts

Well-known member
Red Robin, my first trip to Australia was in 1995, at that time Australian cattle were about 70% grass fat 30% grain fed dry lot cattle, mostly of Hereford breeding. Over the years I watched as the packers discounted the grass fat and the Hereford influenced cattle and at the same time paid premiums for feed-lot cattle of black influence, (keep in mind here, the packers were only paying a premium for these cattle in the same amount, of the discount from the others) until now Australia has around 70% grain fed black hided cattle and 30% grass fat cattle.

The same thing happened in this country with the Shorthorn cattle when the Hereford cattle became the most prevalent, likewise from Hereford to Angus and from straight bred cattle to crossbred cattle.

I have the results of a BREED COMPARISON TEST conducted at Iowa Beef Processors, Inc.'s research feedlot at Denision, Iowa where IBP was trying to figure out what was the best breed for the packing industry in 1972. After reading this comparison test, you can put a time line, on what caused the loss of popularly of the Exotic breeds. You can also see the results of this test today, by driving by any feedlot in the USA or Canada.

Anyone wanting a copy of this test, e-mail me, and I will be happy to send you a copy.

So my answer to you Red Robin, is yes, I am insuinating that packer bred cattle is of large enough scale to effect the overall quality of not only American beef, but beef around the world.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts
 

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