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RR, there are a couple of things about the chicken industry that you just don't know about. They are the "dirty little secrets". One is that the complex around your area is not treated as the complexes around the nation. Tyson is able to pay different amounts to different farmers in the base pay, even though they all compete in the same "tournament system". This is for the same birds. They get paid different amounts for the base pay for the same birds. I bet in the Tyson plant around their headquarters they are pretty decent to those farmers. Many times they are pretty decent to the farmers until the older barns are paid off then they start pulling their tricks. You see, a farmer in debt is a farmer who will continue to give consistent supply to the plant. If anyone steps out of line, the integrators just start giving worse chicks and feed and then claim they are a "bad farmer" and cut them off. Tom Green was a pretty decent farmer who got tired of being "held up" by continuing demands of equipment and upgrades at his expense. The big issue, however, is that they didn't want to sign away their rights to a jury trial instead of a rigged arbitration system that Con Agra was forcing on the growers. I talked to Tom. He and his family went through a lot. I also talked to his lawyer. Unfortunately, much of his story was squashed because of the terms of his settlement. I forget how long it took him to eventually collect, but I can find out for you if you are interested. The settlement did not pay for all he lost. Justice denied is justice delayed. The onerous terms of the settlement so others will not find out the details is also outrageous.

Everything may be fine in your small complex, but don't extrapolate. In doing so you dismissing a huge number of real complaints.

On the other case, the Townsend case, those farmers were tricked from the beginning. They were promised returns based on a certain type of breed and the amount they were paid for those eggs. Townsend's barns were egg barns used to hatch out the broilers. After Sanderson Farms got the egg laying barns built, they changed the breed of chickens and those new chickens laid less eggs. All of the income projections were out the window. In addition to that, the bank was in on the scam, as was the closing agent. As the producers made money from the contract, the bank would hold the money, pay the notes due, and never give a statement of any remaining to the growers. So even with this, the growers were not receiving their full share of the contract. Then came the additional upgrades the companies required. Those growers were cash pinched. The company later made all the growers sign an arbitration contract or lose their contract. This was all after the barns were built.

In addition, the property was accessed by the company, at any and all times of the night and day. They required growers to give them unlimited access and keys to the joint. Growers could not even lock the door when working in the barns so they wouldn't get startled.

I know for a fact that some of those growers went and complained to Bill Hawks, who was supposed to know something about the industry. He did nothing. Under the PSA, although the company was defined as a poultry dealer and met all of the definitions under the PSA for action, the company brought up the fact that the Sanderson egg barns were not poultry producers--they were egg producers and hence did not fall under the definition of the PSA protections. There was no justice to be found, a lot of hard work, as essentially the farmers had no other option than to grow eggs and pay for the facilities or lose the farm. Many of these were homesteads that had been in the family for years.

Townsend went into that office in Bryan Texas, told the manager to pick up the phone, call his wife, apologize to her for the scam they got into, and then he killed the manager and shot another manager. He then shot himself. When you are pushed so far, sometimes things happen. They did that day in that office.

If you want to continue to argue your point that Tyson and other integrators help farmers without cheating them, you need to talk to some of these people personally as I have. If you don't change your pollyanna viewpoint after that, you never will.

<blockquote data-quote="Econ101" data-source="post: 207225" data-attributes="member: 629">RR, there are a couple of things about the chicken industry that you just don&#039;t know about.&nbsp; They are the &quot;dirty little secrets&quot;.&nbsp; One is that the complex around your area is not treated as the complexes around the nation.&nbsp; Tyson is able to pay different amounts to different farmers in the base pay, even though they all compete in the same &quot;tournament system&quot;.&nbsp; This is for the same birds.&nbsp; They get paid different amounts for the base pay for the same birds.&nbsp; I bet in the Tyson plant around their headquarters they are pretty decent to those farmers.&nbsp; Many times they are pretty decent to the farmers until the older barns are paid off then they start pulling their tricks.&nbsp; You see, a farmer in debt is a farmer who will continue to give consistent supply to the plant.&nbsp; If anyone steps out of line, the integrators just start giving worse chicks and feed and then claim they are a &quot;bad farmer&quot; and cut them off.&nbsp; Tom Green was a pretty decent farmer who got tired of being &quot;held up&quot; by continuing demands of equipment and upgrades at his expense.&nbsp; The big issue, however, is that they didn&#039;t want to sign away their rights to a jury trial instead of a rigged arbitration system that Con Agra was forcing on the growers.&nbsp; I talked to Tom.&nbsp; He and his family went through a lot.&nbsp; I also talked to his lawyer.&nbsp; Unfortunately, much of his story was squashed because of the terms of his settlement.&nbsp; I forget how long it took him to eventually collect, but I can find out for you if you are interested.&nbsp; The settlement did not pay for all he lost.&nbsp; Justice denied is justice delayed.&nbsp; The onerous terms of the settlement so others will not find out the details is also outrageous.Everything may be fine in your small complex, but don&#039;t extrapolate.&nbsp; In doing so you dismissing a huge number of real complaints.On the other case, the Townsend case, those farmers were tricked from the beginning.&nbsp; They were promised returns based on a certain type of breed and the amount they were paid for those eggs.&nbsp; Townsend&#039;s barns were egg barns used to hatch out the broilers.&nbsp; After Sanderson Farms got&nbsp; the egg laying barns built, they changed the breed of chickens and those new chickens laid less eggs.&nbsp; All of the income projections were out the window.&nbsp; In addition to that, the bank was in on the scam, as was the closing agent.&nbsp; As the producers made money from the contract, the bank would hold the money, pay the notes due, and never give a statement of any remaining to the growers.&nbsp; So even with this, the growers were not receiving their full share of the contract.&nbsp; Then came the additional upgrades the companies required.&nbsp; Those growers were cash pinched.&nbsp; The company later made all the growers sign an arbitration contract or lose their contract.&nbsp; This was all after the barns were built.In addition, the property was accessed by the company, at any and all times of the night and day.&nbsp; They required growers to give them unlimited access and keys to the joint.&nbsp; Growers could not even lock the door when working in the barns so they wouldn&#039;t get startled.&nbsp; I know for a fact that some of those growers went and complained to Bill Hawks, who was supposed to know something about the industry.&nbsp; He did nothing.&nbsp; Under the PSA, although the company was defined as a poultry dealer and met all of the definitions under the PSA for action, the company brought up the fact that the Sanderson egg barns were not poultry producers--they were egg producers and hence did not fall under the definition of the PSA protections.&nbsp; There was no justice to be found, a lot of hard work, as essentially the farmers had no other option than to grow eggs and pay for the facilities or lose the farm.&nbsp; Many of these were homesteads that had been in the family for years.Townsend went into that office in Bryan Texas, told the manager to pick up the phone, call his wife, apologize to her for the scam they got into, and then he killed the manager and shot another manager.&nbsp; He then shot himself.&nbsp; When you are pushed so far, sometimes things happen.&nbsp; They did that day in that office.If you want to continue to argue your point that Tyson and other integrators help farmers without cheating them, you need to talk to some of these people personally as I have.&nbsp; If you don&#039;t change your pollyanna viewpoint after that, you never will.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Econ101, post: 207225, member: 629"] RR, there are a couple of things about the chicken industry that you just don't know about. They are the "dirty little secrets". One is that the complex around your area is not treated as the complexes around the nation. Tyson is able to pay different amounts to different farmers in the base pay, even though they all compete in the same "tournament system". This is for the same birds. They get paid different amounts for the base pay for the same birds. I bet in the Tyson plant around their headquarters they are pretty decent to those farmers. Many times they are pretty decent to the farmers until the older barns are paid off then they start pulling their tricks. You see, a farmer in debt is a farmer who will continue to give consistent supply to the plant. If anyone steps out of line, the integrators just start giving worse chicks and feed and then claim they are a "bad farmer" and cut them off. Tom Green was a pretty decent farmer who got tired of being "held up" by continuing demands of equipment and upgrades at his expense. The big issue, however, is that they didn't want to sign away their rights to a jury trial instead of a rigged arbitration system that Con Agra was forcing on the growers. I talked to Tom. He and his family went through a lot. I also talked to his lawyer. Unfortunately, much of his story was squashed because of the terms of his settlement. I forget how long it took him to eventually collect, but I can find out for you if you are interested. The settlement did not pay for all he lost. Justice denied is justice delayed. The onerous terms of the settlement so others will not find out the details is also outrageous. Everything may be fine in your small complex, but don't extrapolate. In doing so you dismissing a huge number of real complaints. On the other case, the Townsend case, those farmers were tricked from the beginning. They were promised returns based on a certain type of breed and the amount they were paid for those eggs. Townsend's barns were egg barns used to hatch out the broilers. After Sanderson Farms got the egg laying barns built, they changed the breed of chickens and those new chickens laid less eggs. All of the income projections were out the window. In addition to that, the bank was in on the scam, as was the closing agent. As the producers made money from the contract, the bank would hold the money, pay the notes due, and never give a statement of any remaining to the growers. So even with this, the growers were not receiving their full share of the contract. Then came the additional upgrades the companies required. Those growers were cash pinched. The company later made all the growers sign an arbitration contract or lose their contract. This was all after the barns were built. In addition, the property was accessed by the company, at any and all times of the night and day. They required growers to give them unlimited access and keys to the joint. Growers could not even lock the door when working in the barns so they wouldn't get startled. I know for a fact that some of those growers went and complained to Bill Hawks, who was supposed to know something about the industry. He did nothing. Under the PSA, although the company was defined as a poultry dealer and met all of the definitions under the PSA for action, the company brought up the fact that the Sanderson egg barns were not poultry producers--they were egg producers and hence did not fall under the definition of the PSA protections. There was no justice to be found, a lot of hard work, as essentially the farmers had no other option than to grow eggs and pay for the facilities or lose the farm. Many of these were homesteads that had been in the family for years. Townsend went into that office in Bryan Texas, told the manager to pick up the phone, call his wife, apologize to her for the scam they got into, and then he killed the manager and shot another manager. He then shot himself. When you are pushed so far, sometimes things happen. They did that day in that office. If you want to continue to argue your point that Tyson and other integrators help farmers without cheating them, you need to talk to some of these people personally as I have. If you don't change your pollyanna viewpoint after that, you never will. [/QUOTE]

Verification: What city in Missouri has a big arch?