I can see ways where VI could be structured and change some of those things. My main point is that if there's more profit in the chain there is possibly more for me.

That's your opinion Sandhusker. I see much more stability with a steady supply of females that work for example or a guaranteed contract at a certain price or a steady target for feeder calves or finished steers or what ever. I have a buddie running commercial charolais. He is being hounded by the barns here and another friend or two that have a small group deal to switch to blacks. He has 200 or 300 functional cows and is sickened by the thought of trying to find an equal amount of blacks that are as even tempered and functional. He usually is a couple cents back of the top of the market but his calves are heavier . Everyone is telling him to switch because in a few years he can't move the whites. In a VI deal he would have a contract on feeders or fats. He'd know where he is at and know what to do. As it is now, he takes a discount on his white cows , buys blacks, and in 5 more years they want reds or something. That's risk in the market that I am talking about sandhusker but just in one area.