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Letter to Putin from the Ukrainian/Russian Jewish community

Steve

Well-known member
A Letter to Putin from the Ukrainian/Russian Jewish community

Russian President Vladimir Putin is doing nothing to move the gunpowder away from the fire. He has no reason to do so now.

He is also trying to use memories of World War II, with his media calling the revolutionaries in Kiev "Banderovtzi," supporters of anti-Semitic nationalist Stepan Bandera who fought for Ukraine’s independence and for a while supported the Germans. It hasn’t however created that much of an impression within Ukraine.

Letter to Putin

Meanwhile, Putin has lost at least one battle in which he invested major propaganda resources. For weeks, the Kremlin-controlled media has tried to portray the pro-Western parties in Ukraine as “neo-Nazis” and “anti-Semites.” A few Jewish figures, particularly Chabad rabbis, have echoed this rhetoric with warnings of a massive wave of anti-Semitism and calls for the Jews to flee Ukraine.

On Wednesday, dozens of Ukrainian Jewish leaders signed a joint open letter (not an easy feat for such a fractious community) to Putin excoriating him for his tendency to “pick and choose lies and slander from the massive amount of information about Ukraine” and accusing him that “in recent days stability in our country has been threatened. And this threat is coming from the Russian government, namely – from you personally. It is your policy of inciting separatism and crude pressure placed on Ukraine that threatens us and all Ukrainian people.”

In the letter they wrote that, as Russian-speaking Ukrainians, they are not concerned by an alleged attempt to persecute and marginalize Russian-speakers and refuted the Kremlin’s claims saying that “even the most marginal (of political parties) do not dare show anti-Semitism or other xenophobic behavior. And we certainly know that our very few nationalists are well-controlled by civil society and the new Ukrainian government – which is more than can be said for the Russian neo-Nazis, who are encouraged by your security services.”


Such a coruscating letter to Russia’s leader is unprecedented and is a clear indication that the Jews of Ukraine have decided to put their faith and fate in the hands of the Kiev government. If there are any indications that Putin may yet fail to undermine his neighbor and install a puppet regime in Kiev, the fact that Ukraine’s Jews are no longer sitting on the fence is one.


Haaretz is Israel's oldest daily newspaper

Despite its historically relatively low circulation in Israel, Haaretz has been for many years considered Israel's most influential daily newspaper.[11] Its readership includes members of Israel's intelligentsia and members of its political and economic elites.[12] Surveys show that Haaretz readership has a higher-than-average education, income, and wealth and that most are Ashkenazim.[7][13] It functions for Israel much as the New York Times does for the United States, as a newspaper of record.[14] In 2007, Shmuel Rosner, the newspaper's former U.S. correspondent, told The Nation that "people who read it are better educated and more sophisticated than most, but the rest of the country doesn't know it exists"
http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/.premium-1.578474


Ukraine’s Jews lambaste Putin in open letter

In repeated statements from the Kremlin, Putin has asserted that Ukraine’s new government is composed of “fascists and neo-Nazis,” and he decried what he said was the anti-Semitism of Ukrainian protesters in his Tuesday press conference.

“Your certainty about the growth of anti-Semitism in Ukraine, which you expressed at your press conference, also does not correspond to the actual facts,” wrote the group. “Perhaps you got Ukraine confused with Russia, where Jewish organizations have noticed growth in anti-Semitic tendencies last year.”

Calling for Putin to cease his intervention in Ukraine and his calls for pro-Russian separatism within the country, the group stated that it does not wish “to be ‘defended’ by sundering Ukraine and annexing its territory.”

Instead, the authors wrote, “we are quite capable of protecting our rights in a constructive dialogue and in cooperation with the government and civil society of a sovereign, democratic, and united Ukraine.”
http://www.timesofisrael.com/ukraines-jews-lambaste-putin-in-open-letter/

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/06/you-must-be-consciously-picking-and-choosing-lies-ukrainian-jewish-leaders-issue-scathing-letter-to-putin/

the articles about the letter highlight a few scathing rebuttals to Putin and his minions..

but the letter itself is far more impactful.
 

Steve

Well-known member
the letter.

Open letter of Ukrainian Jews to Russian Federation President Vladimir Putin

To the President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin

Mr. President!

We are Jewish citizens of Ukraine: businessmen, managers, public figures, scientists and scholars, artists and musicians. We are addressing you on behalf of the multi-national people of Ukraine, Ukraine’s national minorities, and on behalf of the Jewish community.

You have stated that Russia wants to protect the rights of the Russian-speaking citizens of the Crimea and all of Ukraine and that these rights have been trampled by the current Ukrainian government. Historically, Ukrainian Jews are also mostly Russian-speaking. Thus, our opinion on what is happening carries no less weight than the opinion of those who advise and inform you.

We are convinced that you are not easily fooled. This means that you must be consciously picking and choosing lies and slander from the entire body of information on Ukraine. And you know very well that Victor Yanukovich’s statement used to describe the situation after the latest treaty had been signed – “…Kyiv is full of armed people who have begun to ransack buildings, places of worship, and churches. Innocent people are suffering. People are being robbed and killed in the streets…” – is simply a lie, from the first word to the very last.

The Russian-speaking citizens of Ukraine are not being humiliated or discriminated against, their civil rights have not been infringed upon. Meanderings about “forced Ukrainization” and “bans on the Russian language” that have been so common in Russian media are on the heads of those who invented them. Your certainty about the growth of anti-Semitism in Ukraine, which you expressed at your press-conference, also does not correspond to the actual facts. Perhaps you got Ukraine confused with Russia, where Jewish organizations have noticed growth in anti-Semitic tendencies last year.

Right now, after Ukraine has survived a difficult political crisis, many of us have wound up on different sides of the barricades. The Jews of Ukraine, as all ethnic groups, are not absolutely unified in their opinion towards what is happening in the country. But we live in a democratic country and can afford a difference of opinion.

They have tried to scare us (and are continuing their attempts) with “Bandera followers” and “Fascists” attempting to wrest away the helm of Ukrainian society, with imminent Jewish pogroms. Yes, we are well aware that the political opposition and the forces of social protests who have secured changes for the better are made up of different groups. They include nationalistic groups, but even the most marginal do not dare show anti-Semitism or other xenophobic behavior. And we certainly know that our very few nationalists are well-controlled by civil society and the new Ukrainian government – which is more than can be said for the Russian neo-Nazis, who are encouraged by your security services.

We have a great mutual understanding with the new government, and a partnership is in the works. There are quite a few national minority representatives in the Cabinet of Ministers: the Minister of Internal Affairs is Armenian, the Vice Prime Minister is a Jew, two ministers are Russian. The newly-appointed governors of Ukraine’s region are also not exclusively Ukrainian.

Unfortunately, we must admit that in recent days stability in our country has been threatened. And this threat is coming from the Russian government, namely – from you personally. It is your policy of inciting separatism and crude pressure placed on Ukraine that threatens us and all Ukrainian people, including those who live in Crimea and the Ukrainian South-East. South-eastern Ukrainians will soon see that for themselves.

Vladimir Vladimirovich, we highly value your concern about the safety and rights of Ukrainian national minorities. But we do not wish to be “defended” by sundering Ukraine and annexing its territory. We decisively call for you not to intervene in internal Ukrainian affairs, to return the Russian armed forces to their normal fixed peacetime location, and to stop encouraging pro-Russian separatism.

Vladimir Vladimirovich, we are quite capable of protecting our rights in a constructive dialogue and in cooperation with the government and civil society of a sovereign, democratic, and united Ukraine. We strongly urge you not to destabilize the situation in our country and to stop your attempts of delegitimizing the new Ukrainian government.
http://maidantranslations.com/2014/03/05/open-letter-of-ukrainian-jews-to-russian-federation-president-vladimir-putin/

well that about says it all...

I have nothing more to add.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
They must have changed their stripes in the last year, or they, the Jewish, feel threatened...unfortunately in these types of situations, you side with the current "power"

Last year it was Yanukovych the Jewish Ukrainians were siding with, they even wrote a letter...

Ukrainian president pledges action against anti-Semites

27 June 2013

At a meeting with the Board of Governors of the Jewish Agency for Israel, Ukraine’s President Viktor Yanukovych pledged to fight anti-Semitism in his country and to stop extremists from operating in the country. Yanukovych said the fact that he forum was held in Kiev would give an impetus to Ukrainian-Israel relations.
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/13675/ukrainian_president_pledges_action_against_anti_semites


KRAKOW – The Ukraine’s parliamentary elections in October 2012 brought bad news to the Jews living in the country. For the first time since it took part in the general elections, the far-Right Svoboda (“Freedom”) party had won a number of parliamentary seats – surprising even its biggest fans.

Svoboda was established in 1991 and became an official political party in 1995.

From the first moment, it carried the banner of nationalism and anti-Communism, playing on the patriotic feelings of the Ukrainians.

Its electoral campaign was based on frightening the people, especially those of lower economical status, by describing Jews and Russians as enemies of the state and accusing them of controlling Ukrainian politics and economics.

In last year’s election, Svoboda surprised everyone when it won 10.44 percent of the national vote and 38 out of 450 parliamentary seats. Shortly thereafter, Svoboda leader Oleg Tyagnibok tried to change the anti- Semitic image of the party.

Eleanor Groisman, president of the Ukrainian Independent Council of Jewish Women, said Tyagnibok assured her that his party is not anti-Semitic, and that the Jewish women in the Ukraine should not worry. That same day, she said, he reiterated that statement at a public briefing, in response to a question put to him by a reporter for the Kiev Jewish media.

However, a few weeks later, the nationalist tone of party members became more extreme. Svoboda MP Igor Miroshnichenko sparked a scandal when he called Mila Kunis, an American actress of Jewish descent born in the Ukraine, “Zhidovka” – an offensive word used to degrade Ukrainian citizens of Jewish nationality. Tyagnibok and other Svoboda members defended the statement and argued that “Zhyd” is the correct word to use in describing Jews.

Growing concern then led Ukranian Jewish community leaders to publish a public appeal to the international community regarding the rising anti-Semitism.

In the open letter, Groisman described the fear among the Jewish citizens of Ukraine since the rise of Svoboda, and expressed their concern about the growing anti-Semitism and accompanying rhetoric by Svoboda’s leaders. The letter then called upon leaders in the international community to take steps before the situation worsens.

Yuri Syrotyuk, a senior member of Svoboda, claimed the party is not anti-Semitic and that Jews in the Ukraine have no reason to fear.

“This is absolutely not true. Svoboda spreads nationalism with love for our country and respect for other nations,” he said.

“There have never been any anti-Semitic calls or actions by Svoboda. Many representatives of your people [the Jews] are in the Ukrainian parliament and among the richest citizens of Ukraine.”

“Could that happen in a country where anti-Semitism is widespread? Svoboda is a parliamentary party and its intention can be judged by its actions and appeals in the parliament.

Can someone cite at least one xenophobic bill or performance? Obviously not,” he asserted.

Syrotyuk stated that Jews can feel safe living in the Ukraine, as other minorities do.

“Ukraine is still a safe country for all those living in its territory. Every citizen has the right to decide where to live, and no one has the right to dictate to anyone regarding this issue. Our common objective is to eliminate anti-Ukrainian, undemocratic regimes, and to build an independent, law-abiding state, where all feel good about themselves as Ukrainians or ethnic minorities living in Ukraine,” he says.

“By the way, Svoboda supports the right of all ethnic minorities to participate in government, education, language and more,” Syrotyuk added.

When asked about using the word “Zhyd” as a slur, Syrotyuk claimed that there is nothing offensive about it.

“The word ‘Zhyd’ is a common Slavic definition for Jews in most European countries,” he explains.

“Another definition simply does not exist in the Slovak, Czech or Polish language. This word has never had a negative or offensive connotation in any Slavic language.”

continued...
http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-News/Ukraine-party-attempts-to-lose-anti-Semitic-image
 

Steve

Well-known member
the far-Right Svoboda (“Freedom”) party had won a number of parliamentary seats


for the rest of the board.. they have ONE seat..

actually they have no seats.. they have one member who still a member of that group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkhovna_Rada
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Steve said:
the far-Right Svoboda (“Freedom”) party had won a number of parliamentary seats


for the rest of the board.. they have ONE seat..

actually they have no seats.. they have one member who still a member of that group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkhovna_Rada

Not sure what you are calling a "seat", but, from the 2012 elections results

Two hundred and twenty deputies have been elected in the single-mandate districts, including 113 from the Party of Regions, 39 from Batkivschyna, 12 from Svoboda party, 6 from UDAR, 3 from the United Center, 2 from the People's Party, one each from the Soyuz (Union) party and from the Oleh Liashko's Radical Party, and 43 independent candidates.

The Central Election Commission has also announced the outcome of the polls by party lists. Overall, 225 deputies have been elected, including 72 from the Party of Regions, 62 Batkivschyna, 34 UDAR, 32 the Communist Party and 25 Svoboda.

In all, 445 deputies have been elected in the single mandate districts and by party lists, including 185 from the Party of Regions, 101 from Batkivschyna, 40 from UDAR, 37 from Svoboda, 32 from the Communists, 3 from the United Center, 2 from the People's Party, 1 from the Union party, 1 from the Liashko's Radical Party and 43 independent candidates.

http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/126937.html#.UUzMyKnCus0
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Steve said:
the far-Right Svoboda (“Freedom”) party had won a number of parliamentary seats


for the rest of the board.. they have ONE seat..

actually they have no seats.. they have one member who still a member of that group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkhovna_Rada

You should really spend more time reading your sources/links

AND STOP CALLING ME A LIAR, when it is you that is mistaken



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkhovna_Rada
 

Steve

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
Steve said:
the far-Right Svoboda (“Freedom”) party had won a number of parliamentary seats


for the rest of the board.. they have ONE seat..

actually they have no seats.. they have one member who still a member of that group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkhovna_Rada

You should really spend more time reading your sources/links

AND STOP CALLING ME A LIAR, when it is you that is mistaken



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkhovna_Rada

I didn't call a lier.. in this thread.. I just pointed out facts.

let me put it this way.. the comments you made are NOT factually correct.

yet you are intent on smearing a country..




Wikipedia can be updated or edited by any of it's member.. which it was today..

This page was last modified on 7 March 2014 at 02:08.
that alone should have clued in a person looking into the party members.


either way the FACT remains..

There are NO members of the Svoboda

and have not been since 2004
February 2004 with the arrival of Oleh Tyahnybok as party leader.[2] Tyahnybok made significant efforts to moderate the party's extremist image.[46] The party not only replaced its name, but also abandoned the "I + N" ("Idea Natsii" ukr. "idea of a nation") Wolfsangel logo (a symbol popular among neo-Nazi groups)

the correct party name is.

All-Ukrainian Union

the party has not used the name Svoboda technically or legally since 2004 it is a defunct party..

another source.. actually listing the members by party.. NOT one Svboda party member.. because the political party no longer exists..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_parliament_of_Ukraine,_2007%E2%80%9312


another thing that is being ignored in all his misleading character assignations is

what the word actually means..

"Svoboda"), translated as Freedom

Freedom..

then lets look at the members.
Volodymyr Ariev is a Ukrainian journalist,
Awardee of V.Marchenko Prize for the best media coverage of the human rights theme

Stanislav Mikhaylovich Arzhevitin (born June 14, 1961) is a Ukrainian businessman, Chairman of the Association of Ukrainian Banks,

Oksana Volodymyrivna Bilozir
is a People's Artist of Ukraine

Aleksander NikolayevBonda
economist and mathematicianich

well you get the point.. NOT one is a member of the defunct Svoboda party.


there is no party member that use or claim that party affiliation. the members list is here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_parliament_of_Ukraine,_2007%E2%80%9312

now if you can show which of these folk are neo nazis.. feel free.

I know one is a kook.. and they are far right..

but they are not members of the Svoboda (FREEDOM) political party

as it does not exist. and has not since 2004

which may explain why it did so well in the elections. :lol: :lol: :roll:

darn FACTS.. .

"You should really spend more time reading your sources/links "

the reality is there is a effort to feed inaccurate information to the media.. to tie a party to the far right

to tie it back to Germany. to use what they call inflammatory terms..

that is why they dredged up the old name.. as it was before the party made reforms.. and gained more moderate members.

is one or two of them radical. who knows no one has show one bit of credible evidence proving they are..

the right in the Ukraine is made up of citizens. they are professors.. teachers, musicians, engineers, even Jews.

you see I dug deeper then the propaganda again

I didn't see one radical comment on any of the Wikipedia pages for them.
I didn't look up every politician on the right and find the one terrible guy (or gal )

I didn't make the accusation.

If you make an accusation and smear someone you should provide proof.. evidence.

not propaganda that can easily be discredited.



but feel free to follow the link and find that one radical you keep bringing up.
 

Steve

Well-known member
did I mention "There are NO members of the Svoboda in the current Ukraine parliament"

and have not been since 2004 when they held one seat.


cause I wouldn't want any confusion there.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Steve said:
There are NO members of the Svoboda

and have not been since 2004
February 2004 with the arrival of Oleh Tyahnybok as party leader.[2] Tyahnybok made significant efforts to moderate the party's extremist image.[46] The party not only replaced its name, but also abandoned the "I + N" ("Idea Natsii" ukr. "idea of a nation") Wolfsangel logo (a symbol popular among neo-Nazi groups)

the correct party name is.

All-Ukrainian Union

So I search the above quote, and it appears you left out a bit...that's quite dishonest to change a quote like that. You intentionally edited the first part out.

The Social-National Party of Ukraine changed its name to the All-Ukrainian Union "Svoboda" in February 2004 with the arrival of Oleh Tyahnybok as party leader.[2] Tyahnybok made significant efforts to moderate the party's extremist image.[46] The party not only replaced its name, but also abandoned the "I + N" ("Idea Natsii" ukr. "idea of a nation") Wolfsangel logo (a symbol popular among neo-Nazi groups

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_%28political_party%29
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Steve they are known as Svoboda, and they changed it awhile ago to All-Ukrainian Union "Svoboda", from The Social-National Party of Ukraine

They and most others still refer to them as Svoboda. That's why all their promotional material has Svoboda on it.

I wonder what that says behind Tyagnibok?



But in an interview in the downtown office building that Svoboda shares with an insurance company and a dental clinic named Smile, Mr. Tyagnibok said that fear of his party was misplaced and the accusations of racism and extremism unfounded.

“Svoboda is not an anti-Semitic party,” he said, seated behind a desk, a sport jacket stretched by his barrel-sized chest, his huge hands folded in front of him, speaking slowly and firmly in Ukrainian. “Svoboda is not a xenophobic party. Svoboda is not an anti-Russian party. Svoboda is not an anti-European party. Svoboda is simply and only a pro-Ukrainian party. And that’s it.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/09/world/europe/ukraines-ultranationalists-do-well-in-elections.html?pagewanted=all
 

Steve

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
Steve said:
There are NO members of the Svoboda

and have not been since 2004
February 2004 with the arrival of Oleh Tyahnybok as party leader.[2] Tyahnybok made significant efforts to moderate the party's extremist image.[46] The party not only replaced its name, but also abandoned the "I + N" ("Idea Natsii" ukr. "idea of a nation") Wolfsangel logo (a symbol popular among neo-Nazi groups)

the correct party name is.

All-Ukrainian Union

So I search the above quote, and it appears you left out a bit...that's quite dishonest to change a quote like that. You intentionally edited the first part out.

The Social-National Party of Ukraine changed its name to the All-Ukrainian Union "Svoboda" in February 2004 with the arrival of Oleh Tyahnybok as party leader.[2] Tyahnybok made significant efforts to moderate the party's extremist image.[46] The party not only replaced its name, but also abandoned the "I + N" ("Idea Natsii" ukr. "idea of a nation") Wolfsangel logo (a symbol popular among neo-Nazi groups

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_%28political_party%29

glad to see you actually put a little effort into it this time..

but I did not intentionally leave anything out. your accusation is false and insulting.

no I just tried to keep the facts easy to understand



but lets look at what you feel is so important.. LINE BY LINE and it is only 1/2 of a line..

The Social-National Party of Ukraine changed its name to the All-Ukrainian Union "Svoboda" in February 2004 with the arrival of Oleh Tyahnybok as party leader.

lets see I mentioned the name change and the new name in my comments. .

ok in 2004 they elected a new leader.. and by most accounts new leadership.

nothing wrong there.. times change.. groups mature.
and by most accurate accounts they made major changes that moved AWAY from the radical past of the group.. especially the neo-nazi agenda

no reason to intentionally intentionally edited the first part out. I

so If I told you in a thread every thing in the quote. and can back it up.. that is not dishonest..


You can twist my words around.. but dishonest.. not today..


would you like my to post several hundred of your carefully edited quotes?


The FACT you are WRONG..

unlike your twisted path that fact has not changed or morphed into something else over the last three days.



but in case you missed it

I will say it again..

and feel free to "prove me wrong"..

there is no freedom party in the Ukraine
it is defunct..


That is a FACT.. and has been since 2004

so I would say about everything you wrote over the last three days or so has been wrong..

oh did I mention

did I mention "There are NO members of the Svoboda in the current Ukraine parliament"

and have not been since 2004 when they held one seat.

















[/quote]
 

Steve

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
Steve they are known as Svoboda, and they changed it awhile ago to All-Ukrainian Union "Svoboda", from The Social-National Party of Ukraine

They and most others still refer to them as Svoboda. That's why all their promotional material has Svoboda on it.

why wouldn't it.. Svoboda. translates to Freedom..

is there anything wrong with the word freedom?

is there anything wrong with the word the idea?

no..



the political party Svoboda has been defunct in name and ideology since 2004

that is a fact.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Steve said:
hypocritexposer said:
Steve they are known as Svoboda, and they changed it awhile ago to All-Ukrainian Union "Svoboda", from The Social-National Party of Ukraine

They and most others still refer to them as Svoboda. That's why all their promotional material has Svoboda on it.

why wouldn't it.. Svoboda. translates to Freedom..

is there anything wrong with the word freedom?

is there anything wrong with the word the idea?

no..



the political party Svoboda has been defunct in name and ideology since 2004

that is a fact.

So Svoboda would not be included anywhere on an official election ballot, since 2004, correct?
 

Steve

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
Steve said:
hypocritexposer said:
Steve they are known as Svoboda, and they changed it awhile ago to All-Ukrainian Union "Svoboda", from The Social-National Party of Ukraine

They and most others still refer to them as Svoboda. That's why all their promotional material has Svoboda on it.

why wouldn't it.. Svoboda. translates to Freedom..

is there anything wrong with the word freedom?

is there anything wrong with the word the idea?

no..



the political party Svoboda has been defunct in name and ideology since 2004

that is a fact.

So Svoboda would not be included anywhere on an official election ballot, since 2004, correct?


the parties name is All-Ukrainian Union

call it whatever you want..

report and post crap about the old group all you want..

I don't really care at this point what you think..

the group portrayed by the Russians and the drive-by media had around 5000 members in 2004

several years later the new group was up to 15000

and then surprisingly the new group took over 2 million votes.. 2,129,246

anyone could see a problem with the current reporting..

especially when the most inflammatory images were pre-2004

and some of those elements still use those images.. even after the new party denounced them..

but what you have done is make a bunch of wild accusation based on OLD inaccurate data and reporting..
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Steve said:
hypocritexposer said:
Steve said:
why wouldn't it.. Svoboda. translates to Freedom..

is there anything wrong with the word freedom?

is there anything wrong with the word the idea?

no..



the political party Svoboda has been defunct in name and ideology since 2004

that is a fact.

So Svoboda would not be included anywhere on an official election ballot, since 2004, correct?


the parties name is All-Ukrainian Union


 

Steve

Well-known member
so what..

it is the word freedom.. it is a slogan..

like hope and change.. yes we can.. OK it isn't like them it is a much better slogan..


how is a picture of a flag somehow an indication the new group is a bunch of neo nazis?
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
You won't believe anything that is posted anyways...you still don't believe that they go by the name Svoboda, even when the leader of the party is standing right in front of promotional material that says "Svoboda"

https://twitter.com/vo_svoboda
 
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