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Libertarian Convention

fff

Well-known member
In case you're not up to date on the latest from the Libertarian Party, they're having their convention in Denver.

The Libertarians may have 14 people running for president this year, but the bloody-knuckle fight of today is whether to restore the party's platform, gutted in 2006 — including such controversial specifics as supporting a world with open borders and no passports, repealing child labor laws, the right to prostitution and recreational drug use, ending all taxation and abolishing the dollar.

Some 552 delegates representing nearly all 50 states at this year's national convention in Denver are debating today how detailed the party's guiding moral document should be.

Specifically, a hefty faction – including Libertarian Party Founder David Nolan — wants to restore its extensive platform that was abandoned two years ago. Nolan and other members of the so-called "Restoration Caucus" are critical of the move by what they term was a "small number of overzealous reformers" who reduced the platform from a 14,000 word manifesto to 2,000 words.

Libertarians represent the nation’s largest minority political party, with some 14 million votes being cast for candidates running for office nationwide in 2006. Traditionally the party has opposed all government intervention, including social and fiscal issues.

“We believe that the butchered version adopted in 2006 was a classic case of 'throwing out the baby with the bath water,' and urge the Platform Committee to undo the damage that was done in Portland," Nolan opined, in an op/ed being circulated at the convention. "We do not see this proposal as being either 'radical' or 'reformist.'"

The restorers want to reinstall the Libertarian Party’s 2004 platform, which includes highly controversial positions on a number of issues involving both fiscal and social issues. Many of the recommendations being set forth for adoption this year have been reworded substantially from their 2004 versions.

However, others are arguing that that the platform should primarily represent an outreach tool to help draw more people to the party.

Here are just a few examples of modifications being debated by delegated on a number of issues, including terrorism, domestic security, civil liberties, national parks, international trade agreements and privatizing highways and the nation’s air traffic control systems:

--Immigration
2004 Platform: Calls for the elimination of all restrictions on immigration, including an abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border Patrol.

2008 Majority Committee Recommendation: Supports control over the entry into our country of foreign nationals who pose a threat to security, health or property.--

--Sex and Drugs
2004 Platform: Calls for the repeal of all laws that restrict the sale, possession and use of drugs, including for recreational use; and those regarding consensual sexual relations, including prostitution and solicitation, and the cessation of state oppression and harassment of homosexual men and women.

2008 Majority Committee Recommendation: Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices and personal relationships. Government does not have legitimate authority to define or license personal relationships. Favors the repeal of all laws creating "crimes" without victims.--

--Taxes
2004 Platform
: Supports ending all taxation. All criminal and civil sanctions against tax evasion should be terminated immediately.

2008 Majority Committee Recommendation: Calls for the repeal of the income tax and the abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service.--

--Money
2004 Platform
: Calls for the elimination of all government fiat money and all government minted coins.

2008 Majority Committee Recommendation: Individuals engaged in voluntary exchange should be free to use as money any mutually agreeable commodity or item.--

The convention, at the Sheraton in downtown Denver, continues through Monday. Much of Saturday afternoon will be consumed with continued floor debate over the platform.

A presidential debate is scheduled for Saturday night, between the 14 candidates who are vying for the nomination. Two high-profile candidates include former Republican Congressman Bob Barr, who was one of the leaders in the effort to impeach Bill Clinton, as well as former Alaska Sen. Mike Gravel, who also ran as a Democrat for president this year.

However, many delegates have expressed support for other candidates who have been far more active in the party, including Wayne Allyn Root and Mary Ruwart.

http://www.coloradoindependent.com/view/libertarians-battle
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
This must be why OT claims he's a Libertarian.

"-Sex and Drugs
2004 Platform: Calls for the repeal of all laws that restrict the sale, possession and use of drugs, including for recreational use; and those regarding consensual sexual relations, including prostitution and solicitation, and the cessation of state oppression and harassment of homosexual men and women."
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Big Muddy rancher said:
This must be why OT claims he's a Libertarian.

"-Sex and Drugs
2004 Platform: Calls for the repeal of all laws that restrict the sale, possession and use of drugs, including for recreational use; and those regarding consensual sexual relations, including prostitution and solicitation, and the cessation of state oppression and harassment of homosexual men and women."

Actually- I prefer their new platform on several things better...Some of the Libertarian party take a much more pragmatic view- and realize that if they aren't pursuing such radical change or don't present such a radical stance as they did for years- they are taken much more seriously.....

When the University did a study of Montana voters views on issues a year or two ago- the majority actually fell more into the Libertarian views of less Federal government- more States rights and less government involvement than they did with either of the two major parties.....

This may even be more so true today, since the Republicans of late have followed suit with the Dems in both being parties of big Federal government, Federal government morality police, usurpers of States rights, and Big Spenders......

2008 Majority Committee Recommendation: Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices and personal relationships. Government does not have legitimate authority to define or license personal relationships. Favors the repeal of all laws creating "crimes" without victims.--
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Former Congressman Bob Barr has been nominated the Libertarian candidate for President- and its looking like Wayne Alan Root could be the V.P. candidate....

Both are former Republicans- who say that they didn't desert the Republican Party- the Republican Party deserted them....Which is a statement I hear over and over again in my part of the country...... :(

In an earlier Rasmussen Reports survey- has Barr polling at 6% nationwide against Barack Obama (42%), John McCain (38%), and Ralph Nader (4%). The study identified Barr as the (presumptive) Libertarian candidate, but most voters said they didn't know enough about him to have an opinion of him personally. Barr's support is a net drain on Republicans; he picked up 7% of the Republican vote, 5% of the Democratic vote, and 5% of the unaffiliated vote

I believe this percentage point will go up as the campaign goes on and he becomes better known- with some predicting Barr/Libertarian Party getting as much as anywhere from 9-18% of the vote- picking up many of the Ron Paul supporters.....
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Libertarian Party VP candidate Wayne Roots political positions:

Root supports smaller government, reduced spending, reduced entitlements, reduced bureaucracy, dramatically lower taxes and more freedom for the individual. In the area of education, he supports more parental control, more emphasis on school choice (moving education to the state and local level), and increased competition through vouchers. Root and his wife choose to home-school their children. He is also a strong supporter of gun rights for the individual. Root is a small businessman who believes the 2-party system is built on corruption, greed and bribery. He believes that the 2 major parties both bribe the electorate to achieve power- thereby spending America and our children and grandchildren into bankruptcy. He is a fiscal conservative in the mode of his heroes Ronald Reagan and Barry Goldwater. He is socially tolerant, believing that most social issues should be determined on the state and local level.

Root's blue collar roots include a conservative political foundation. He is the son of David Root, a butcher from Brownsville, Brooklyn, who dabbled in third party politics as one of the original founders of the New York State Conservative Party. Root believes he can transfer his political roots to a national scale in his run for President of the United States. "I'm certainly not the usual Presidential candidate as a small businessman and son of a butcher. I'm not a member of the 'lucky sperm club' or the skull and crossbones society. I will govern with common sense, not fancy college degrees. I have no interest in running government, or growing government. My only goal is cutting government. I will lead America back to prosperity by restoring fiscal discipline, personal responsibility, rugged individualism, and individual rights and freedoms. Just as our Founding Fathers intended

Wouldn't it be something if the Repubs had a candidate or any leadership with half these old true conservative values :???: :wink: :lol:
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Really, by doing this NOW, Bob Barr has become the Rep version of Ralph Nader.

He will take away Rep votes from McCain, just enough, to ensure that Obama gets elected.

Barr himself is not a bad guy, he has become a lot more ' reasonable' since he left Congress.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
kolanuraven said:
Really, by doing this NOW, Bob Barr has become the Rep version of Ralph Nader.

He will take away Rep votes from McCain, just enough, to ensure that Obama gets elected.

Barr himself is not a bad guy, he has become a lot more ' reasonable' since he left Congress.

Actually I think Barr will take a lot more conservative votes than Nader will from the Dems- especially with the discontent in the Repub party- and the fact that he supports many of the same issues brought up by Paul and Huckabee - who are still picking up votes in the late primaries.....
Interesting- Of the 4 main candidates- 3 (Obama, Barr, Nader)believe we shouldn't be in Iraq and should get out as soon as we can- with only old McBush spouting 100 years of war- and in lockstep with GW...

The big presidential news today is not about Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, or John McCain. It is about former Georgia representative Bob Barr, who was nominated yesterday by the Libertarian Party to be its candidate for President. For people who think third parties don't amount to a hill of beans, please recall that in 2000, George Bush beat Al Gore by 537 votes in Florida, with 92,000 Floridians voting for Ralph Nader. If 1% of those people had voted for Gore instead of Nader, he would have become President.

Barr's impact is yet to be determined, of course, He is strongly conservative in the Barry Goldwater mold rather than in the Bush-Cheney mold. But he is not your standard libertarian. He opposes abortion, whereas most libertarians say it is none of the government's business if you want an abortion. He also opposes same-sex marriage, but opposes a constitutional amendment forbidding it on the grounds this is something for the states to decide. He also opposes the federal income tax and wants to abolish the IRS. Barr is a supporter and proponent of the Fair Tax....

In addition, he is a strong opponent of the war in Iraq. It isn't so much that he feels each state should fight its own wars as his general opposition to foreign involvements. In short, for Republicans who dislike McCain for any reason (e.g., the McCain-Kennedy immigration bill) and who would never vote for a Democrat, Barr provides a satisfactory ideological outlet. He might well drain enough votes from McCain to flip a few states. One state that has been mentioned in this context is Georgia, where he is well known. The combination of Barr bleeding votes from McCain and a massive turnout of black voters for Obama (if he is the nominee), might put the state in play. No doubt McCain will try to swat Barr down as hard and as fast as he can, but since their main point of difference is Iraq, McCain is going to find himself under attack on Iraq from the right, something he probably wasn't expecting. Saying that Obama is buddy-buddy with Nancy Pelosi is one thing; saying that Barr is, too, is something pretty hard to swallow. Nader is in the mix, too, as usual, but Barr will probably get a lot more attention, if for no other reason than the fact that he is the new kid on the block.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

During his tenure, Barr was regarded as one of the most conservative members of Congress. In 2002, he was described as "the idol of the gun-toting, abortion-fighting, IRS-hating hard right wing of American politics"... However, Barr's criticism of the Bush administration's encroachment on privacy and other civil liberties after the 9/11 attacks was unusual among House Republicans.....
Barr is also a supporter of the Fair Tax (which was also supported by Mike Huckabee) and repealing the 16th Amendment, which gives the U.S. Congress the power to levy an income tax...He voted for the Patriot Act, but only after his amendments adding "sunset clauses" were added to the final bill...He now publicly regrets his Patriot Act vote.

Barr sat on the Board of Directors of the National Rifle Association from 2001 to 2007....

More recently, Barr has become a prominent member of the American Civil Liberties Union, sometimes doing paid consulting on privacy issues.

He is one of the four founders of the American Freedom Agenda, which is described as "a coalition established to restore checks and balances and civil liberties protections under assault by the executive branch." The American Freedom Agenda has established a 10-point Freedom Pledge for presidential candidates to confirm their commitment to civil liberties.

The ten points of the pledge are:

No military commissions (Tribunals) except on the battlefield.
No evidence extracted by torture or coercion.
No detaining citizens as unlawful enemy combatants.
Restoring Habeas Corpus for suspected alien enemy combatants.
Prohibiting warrantless spying by the National Security Agency in violation of law.
Renouncing Presidential signing statements.
Ending secret government by invoking State Secrets Privilege.
Stopping extraordinary renditions.
Stopping threats to prosecuting journalists under the Espionage Act.
Ending the listing of individuals or organizations as terrorists based on secret evidence.

He is also a member of the Constitution Project's bipartisan Liberty and Security Committee

Rule of Law Program

The Rule of Law Program addresses perceived threats to the rule of law and to constitutional liberties that have resulted from the assertions of expansive presidential authority in the aftermath of the attacks of September 11, 2001, Congress’s simultaneous failure to exercise its duties as a separate and independent branch of government, and efforts by both Congress and the President to strip the courts of their jurisdiction to oversee the actions of the executive and legislative branches.


Liberty and Security Committee
The Liberty and Security Committee of the Rule of Law Program is co-chaired by David D. Cole, professor of law at Georgetown University Law Center, and David Keene, chairman of the American Conservative Union.[2] The Committee is convened to address the “variety of important questions about how to enhance our security while simultaneously protecting our civil liberties.”[3] Members of the Committee have also authored columns for major newspapers on watch lists, the state secrets privilege, habeas corpus, and public video surveillance.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_Project

Secure the Borders
The current platform of the Libertarian Party paints a bright and accurate picture regarding the issue of immigration: "Our borders are currently neither open, closed, nor secure. This situation restricts the labor pool, encouraging employers to hire undocumented workers, while leaving those workers neither subject to nor protected by the law. A completely open border allows foreign criminals, carriers of communicable diseases, terrorists and other potential threats to enter the country unchecked. Pandering politicians guarantee access to public services for undocumented aliens, to the detriment of those who would enter to work productively, and increasing the burden on taxpayers."

Resolving this issue will be a challenge for America as it means that we must be aggressive in securing our borders while at the same time, vigilantly fighting the nanny state that seeks to coddle even those capable of providing for their own personal prosperity.

Until all governments are willing to take a unified front to confront this problem, it is the duty of the federal government to secure our borders from criminals, terrorists and those seeking to take advantage of the American taxpayer.

Restoring National Defense

For far too long and at the cost of American blood and treasure, our great military has been too willingly and quickly used for purposes other than national defense. Our fighting men and women deserve better and the integrity of our nation must be restored.

Our National Defense policy must renew a commitment to non-intervention. We are not the world's police force and our long, yet recently tarnished, tradition of respecting the sovereignty of other nations is necessary, not from only a moral standpoint, but to regain the respect of the world as a principled and peaceful nation.

The proper use of force is clear. If attacked, the aggressor will experience firsthand the skillful wrath of the American fighting man. However, invading or initiating force against another nation based upon perceived threats and speculative intelligence is simply un-American. We are better than the policy of pre-emptive warfare.

Maximize Individual Liberty & Restore the Constitution

The United States was created for the purpose of securing the liberties of its people. The colonists fled oppressive old world governments. The nation’s founders drafted the Constitution to sharply limit the federal government’s powers. The horrors perpetrated by the many collectivist tyrannies of the 20th Century demonstrate that the danger of government, any government, violating individual liberty is greater today than when America was founded.
Unfortunately, in recent years government at all levels has shown growing disrespect for the Constitution, particularly the Fourth Amendment that protects citizens from unlawful searches and seizures. The sustained government attack on the sanctity of the rights of the individual, including their right to be secure in their privacy and property, has created a moral and Constitutional crisis. America’s elected officials at all levels must renew their respect for the law and work to protect the rights of individuals.

The place to start is restoring the writ of Habeas Corpus, which protects against unlawful detention, and thus stands at the core of individual liberty. Article 1 of the Constitution provides that this right shall not be suspended without clear and necessary cause, such as during an invasion. In passing the Military Commissions Act of 2006, Congress, pushed by President George W. Bush, effectively ended this protection within America. The Constitutional protections of Habeas Corpus should not be sacrificed so easily.

Finally, an increasingly intrusive Nanny State is watching over our nation, meddling in the lives of its citizens. New measures, often rushed through legislatures and regulatory agencies with little consideration or thought, seek to control ever more aspects of people's lives. Government limits individual actions and choices, from the way in which we educate our children to the food that we eat, from the type of light bulbs that illuminate our living rooms to the benefits that we receive for working. It is time to again trust individuals to make their own decisions. At the core of libertarianism is a trust in and respect for the personal choices of every individual. All Americans should be free to decide what is best for themselves and their families. At the same time, they must bear personal responsibility for the consequences of the decisions that they make, whether those decisions prove to be good or bad.

Big Government and Big Spending — The Root of all Problems.

Government spending at all levels is out of control. Most Americans understand the problem of “earmarks,” commonly used by pork-minded congressmen to buy votes. But while earmarks are an outrageous abuse of the taxpayer’s money, they account for a very small percentage of federal spending. Over the past decade, total government spending (state, local and federal) has increased from $2.9 trillion to an astonishing $5.1 trillion in 2008. The $3.1 trillion federal budget submitted by President Bush for next year was greater than the combined 1998 spending of the federal government, all 50 states and over 87,000 local governments.

The federal government must take the lead in making significant cuts in spending. Focusing on earmarks risks distracting attention from the broader problem of a government wildly wasting the money of hard-working Americans. Tens of billions of dollars in corporate welfare — essentially aid to dependent corporations — should be eliminated. Largesse for middle- and upper-income Americans, particularly so-called “entitlement” programs, must be cut. Billions in so-called defense spending, which protects America’s populous, prosperous allies rather than Americans, must be eliminated.

Cutting spending would allow America to implement real tax reform. Our goal should be to reduce both the tax burden on Americans and the intrusion in their lives resulting from IRS enforcement of the income tax. One of the best approaches would be to adopt some form of a consumption tax, like a national sales tax, replacing the Internal Revenue Service and all federal income taxes as well as payroll taxes.
It is not enough to eliminate the income tax. We also must repeal the 16th amendment, which authorizes Congress to levy an income tax. Without doing so, there would be an ever-present danger that a future Congress would attempt to bring back the income tax on top of the Fair Tax or any other alternative to the income tax.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Bob Barr on Neil Cavuto
May 28th, 2008 by Stephen Gordon
CAVUTO: Six percent, that’s a pretty good number, considering you haven’t done squat yet. I mean, you just got nominated.

So, how do you become a Ross Perot phenomenon?

BARR: Well, I’m interested in being more than a Ross Perot phenomenon. I have great respect for him. And, as a matter of fact, his campaign manager is now our campaign manager.

We’re putting together a team that will deliver a positive message to an awful lot of new and disenfranchised older voters.

CAVUTO: Will you be on all 50 state ballots? How does that stand?

BARR: We hope to be.

The Libertarian Party, alone among America’s third parties, has enjoyed — not universal, but near-universal ballot access. Last cycle, in 2004, we had — Libertarians were on the ballots in 48 of 50 states, plus the District of Columbia. This time, we hope to gain at least that degree of ballot access, if not 49 or 50 states.

CAVUTO: All right, you know the argument against you, Governor — or, Congressman, that is that you are going to siphon votes away from John McCain. What do you say?

BARR: Not so.

I cannot think of any reason why somebody who is predisposed to vote for John McCain, a big-government Republican, would choose instead to switch from John McCain to Bob Barr, a small-government Libertarian. It would make no sense.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
He will take away Rep votes from McCain, just enough, to ensure that Obama gets elected.

Want to bet? Loser can not come to Political Bull for 6 months, as themselves or any other alias?
 

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