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I don't know about that Denny - if you're talking about farmers or ranchers as buyers I think very few are crooks. What's the worst they can do - have the odd one not pay or issue a bad cheque? At least the trucker knows where he delivered the hay to if there is a problem.
The suppliers on the other hand can have a multitude of tricks if they are so inclined. Delivering different hay to what you saw/negotiated on, stalling delivery because they got a higher offer on hay promised to you by offering it at auction, fraudulently altering weight tickets, hiding occasional bad bales on a load, selling hay that doesn't belong to them - believe it or not we've had all these happen to us over the years. There are plenty honest truckers/hay sellers out there for sure but in my experience there are a lot of rogues too.

Maybe the most blatant scam I experienced was on two loads of hay I bought from a grower with the delivery arranged by a custom hay trucker that I had used before and the hay seller used all the time. The deal was that I got the first load delivered and write a cheque to the trucker for both loads and he would pay the grower - agreed to by all parties. Got the first load, dispatched the cheque and expected to get the other load in a couple of days. The second load never came as the trucker was tied up with a number of other time critical deliveries and I wasn't desperate for the hay. Started to get suspicous after a couple of weeks and the trucker wouldn't answer his cell phone to me. Eventually got a call from the grower wondering why I had refused to give the trucker my payment as promised. Turns out the trucker took our money and spent it on overhauling his truck while lying to both me and the grower. We eventually got it straightened out with some threats of police involvement.
 
A lot of ya'll must live in ghettos or the inner city to deal with so many shady and crooked folks! :roll: If your not getting taken by a hay broker you are buying a bull that's legs fall off in the trailer on the way home from the sale! :shock: While i'll agree that there are crooks in this world, some of ya'll either need to move or take a long hard look at who you do buisness with. In this part of the country crooks are few and far between. Good folks out number the bad 100000 to 1. And the bad get run off in short order. Life is way too short to go through it dealing with dishonest and unprincipled people. And this may sound harsh and is not directed to any of you personally, But sometimes folks tend to have people deal with them the way they deal with others! Meaning karma can sure come back around and bite ya. :? Sad but true!
 
I guess calling a spade a spade is a sin in Utah!!! I'm in a bit of a wird deal-I bought about 150 tons of hay from a guy. I PAID for it before delivery because he was going through a divorce and said he needed the moneyto settle with his lady. Got sabout 3/4 of it hauled thyen the mounties showed up with his paramour and made the trucker unload because she claimed the hay was hers. I have way to interesting a life sometimes. Defending poor business as being karma is just plain silly-I don't think any area has a monopoly on shysters and I don't even Utah has cornered the market on honesty. THe old saying about the best way to ruin a good rancher is give him five purebred cows or ten bales to sell is sometimes kind of true.
 
If your running sizable operation you will run into the 1 in 10000 once in a while. Mostly my experiences have been good with trucking and brokering outfits but sometimes it just goes south. The last bad experience with a brokering trucking outfit was from a business in Idaho. It ended up only costing opportunity lost but it was a substantial opportunity.
 
H, Often the problems arise because the people we have bought hay from do not live in our communities - they live a distance away and it is done by phone. Seems some folk think it's fine to cheat as long as they aren't soiling their own nest. I much prefer to buy feed from neighbors but when you buy all your feed every year sometimes you need to step outside your own area particularly in years of drought or when crops are better in another part of the country. I suppose you could say this is another risk or cost of buying your feed versus growing it.
 
Never heard that old saying NR but I'm going to start using it. That's a good one. :lol: :lol: I also use your line about working at night. Got a lot of mileage out of that one. Of course I gave you all the credit.
 
All I was saying is for every dishonest hay jockey there's a dishonest buyer. Best thing is for the two to meet up. Some of the biggest outfits are the shadiest they figure you can just wait. Ive been in business long enough to know people's true colors. I won't build a horse trailer for that very reason they have champagne taste on a ice water budget.

I bought hay from a farmer one time he was suppose to deliver it.He did'nt and it snowed alot that winter and the bales were still in the field well we went with a snow blower and a skidsteer and cleaned out to all the bales. We did that and 3 days later went to haul them all off the field imagine our shock when we showed up and all the bales were gone. Ended up the farmer sold them twice we dig'em out someone else gets them.The guy I had hired to help was a bit pissed and we went to the farm after a heated arguement we loaded mixed upland hay from his stackyard in exchange for the low meadow hay.
 
Looking back through the years, I have only had about three less-than-desirable experiences with truckers. In about 1990, the trucker that I had arranged to haul a load of calves to a sale had another trucker do the job instead. Mainly because of miscommunication, the truck ended up several miles from where I needed it to be, and they came clear into our place on five miles of trail road when they should have been on a decent county road on the far corner of the ranch. The load of steer calves ended up getting to the sale barn too late to be brand inspected that day, and they sold at nine o'clock that night. They didn't sell very well so I no-saled them and put them in a feedlot for the winter, selling them as fats. It wasn't a great experience all the way around, and the late truck in the wrong place snowballed the whole deal.

Another time, I had two loads of calves ready to load at eight o'clock one morning, having sold them private treaty. One truck arrived, and he contacted the other trucker who was asleep in his truck at O'Neill, Nebraska, about four hours away. This resulted in quite a bit of extra shrink for our calves, and the buyer didn't seem to want to cut me any breaks.

The last incident was a good replacement heifer calf getting her foot shut in a door. She ended up breaking her leg out of the deal, and of course with me being the owner at both loading time and unloading time, this ended up being my problem.

Right at the moment I've got a hay deal going, but have a great trucker doing the hauling, and responsible local ranchers selling the hay. The truck has a live bottom and a scale, so the trucker's scale weight will be the pay weight. As long as my line of credit holds out, and I write checks to everyone involved, it should be a positive experience all the way around.
 
Don't pay for anything in advance!If you get one load of hay out of two ordered ,pay for them as they come, and not before.Save yourself some grief.
 
I would be really P.Oed if the trucker didn't show up....And we have had that happen... So we bought our own truck and pot and haul our own.. Takes care of the hassle and we can haul when we want... Now hay haulers are another story...Only good ones I know are Heaths from cody... Good guys... We have a state certified scale in our yard and you can bet hay jockeys will not show up when they say.......Or even if they do show up.. I've waited days and hours for hay haulers to show up to be weighed...I don't weigh outside trucks anymore simply cuz they never show up and it ruins my day plans..
 
leanin' H said:
A lot of ya'll must live in ghettos or the inner city to deal with so many shady and crooked folks! :roll: If your not getting taken by a hay broker you are buying a bull that's legs fall off in the trailer on the way home from the sale! :shock: While i'll agree that there are crooks in this world, some of ya'll either need to move or take a long hard look at who you do buisness with. In this part of the country crooks are few and far between. Good folks out number the bad 100000 to 1. And the bad get run off in short order. Life is way too short to go through it dealing with dishonest and unprincipled people. And this may sound harsh and is not directed to any of you personally, But sometimes folks tend to have people deal with them the way they deal with others! Meaning karma can sure come back around and bite ya. :? Sad but true!
Click to expand...

Where is the start line in the karma circle?
 
Dylan Biggs said:
leanin' H said:
A lot of ya'll must live in ghettos or the inner city to deal with so many shady and crooked folks! :roll: If your not getting taken by a hay broker you are buying a bull that's legs fall off in the trailer on the way home from the sale! :shock: While i'll agree that there are crooks in this world, some of ya'll either need to move or take a long hard look at who you do buisness with. In this part of the country crooks are few and far between. Good folks out number the bad 100000 to 1. And the bad get run off in short order. Life is way too short to go through it dealing with dishonest and unprincipled people. And this may sound harsh and is not directed to any of you personally, But sometimes folks tend to have people deal with them the way they deal with others! Meaning karma can sure come back around and bite ya. :? Sad but true!
Click to expand...

Where is the start line in the karma circle?
Click to expand...

Starts every mornin' when ya shave. :D Look I don't live on some cloud surrounded by harp playing angels. I fully understand there are people who are dishonest and down right crooked. But most of the time those outfits have lots of smoke billowing up. They are always making deals that put a lot of strain on the rules or just break them outright. Why deal with them. :???: If you've heard the stories and rumors and the smoke, why even deal there at all? Purebred outfits would soon be out of buisness. Shady brokers would have to become telemarketers. :wink: But it seems like theres always somebody willing to "overlook" a guys troubles if the price is right. I AM NOT SAYING THIS WAS THE CASE AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS POST! AND I AM NOT POINTING THIS AT ANY OF YOU. But why deal with folks if you cant or wont trust them? Fool me once (or my neighbor) shame on you, fool me twice...... well now I'm as much to blame and just as questionable in character as the crook. Do your research and check folks history before hopping into the sack with them. Bet ya the number of times you end up ticked off or ripped off dwindles down. If it's too good to be true or maybe if it's too good to be RIGHT it probably aint. Thoughts from the small and under developed brain of a guy who has a couple tire tracks over his back. Finally had to get out of the road. :wink: :D

Northern, You seem to be pretty sideways in my direction lately. Hope we can always visit and disagree with grins on our faces. :D You take care of yourself and good luck with all you have on your plate. Don't know how you do it all. Bless you and yours! :)
 
I had a load of liquid protein supplement delivered the other day and this topic came up with the business owner. He said he had over $70,000 on his books and doesn't know when and if he will get paid. This is a small business in a small town, and that amount of money could break him. These are all people that live in the surrounding area who he considered friends and customers that are sticking him with their bills. He said it drives him nuts when one of his "customers" drives by in a brand new pickup and horse trailer heading to a rodeo. The worst offenders have stopped coming into his store. That kind of crap is what broke our local Co-op too. I would only accept cash from those kind of people in the future if they ever get settled up that is. He asked one guy why he didn't pay his bill and his response was "because you only charge me 2% interest," to which the owner replied "That's 2% per month you idiot, as in 24% per year." He went to the bank a couple days later and borrowed the money to pay his bill. :roll:
 
This thread has brought about many conversations. I had one with the shop that does much of my mechanical work today. Of 600 clients there are only 4 not paid up to date. But it only takes a few to break someone now days.
 
leanin' H said:
Dylan Biggs said:
leanin' H said:
A lot of ya'll must live in ghettos or the inner city to deal with so many shady and crooked folks! :roll: If your not getting taken by a hay broker you are buying a bull that's legs fall off in the trailer on the way home from the sale! :shock: While i'll agree that there are crooks in this world, some of ya'll either need to move or take a long hard look at who you do buisness with. In this part of the country crooks are few and far between. Good folks out number the bad 100000 to 1. And the bad get run off in short order. Life is way too short to go through it dealing with dishonest and unprincipled people. And this may sound harsh and is not directed to any of you personally, But sometimes folks tend to have people deal with them the way they deal with others! Meaning karma can sure come back around and bite ya. :? Sad but true!
Click to expand...

Where is the start line in the karma circle?
Click to expand...

Starts every mornin' when ya shave. :D Look I don't live on some cloud surrounded by harp playing angels. I fully understand there are people who are dishonest and down right crooked. But most of the time those outfits have lots of smoke billowing up. They are always making deals that put a lot of strain on the rules or just break them outright. Why deal with them. :???: If you've heard the stories and rumors and the smoke, why even deal there at all? Purebred outfits would soon be out of buisness. Shady brokers would have to become telemarketers. :wink: But it seems like theres always somebody willing to "overlook" a guys troubles if the price is right. I AM NOT SAYING THIS WAS THE CASE AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS POST! AND I AM NOT POINTING THIS AT ANY OF YOU. But why deal with folks if you cant or wont trust them? Fool me once (or my neighbor) shame on you, fool me twice...... well now I'm as much to blame and just as questionable in character as the crook. Do your research and check folks history before hopping into the sack with them. Bet ya the number of times you end up ticked off or ripped off dwindles down. If it's too good to be true or maybe if it's too good to be RIGHT it probably aint. Thoughts from the small and under developed brain of a guy who has a couple tire tracks over his back. Finally had to get out of the road. :wink: :D

Northern, You seem to be pretty sideways in my direction lately. Hope we can always visit and disagree with grins on our faces. :D You take care of yourself and good luck with all you have on your plate. Don't know how you do it all. Bless you and yours! :)
Click to expand...

Leanin H I wasn't suggesting you were living on cloud 9. I have always hoped that as a person sows so shall they reap, and what comes around goes around, (that could be a bit vindictive), that's why I described it as a circle. As I gather more experiences I also know that crap just happens even to the best of people, as simple as that. My oldest daughter drove with a girl friend of hers to Florida this summer and had her wallet stolen out from under her nose at a Starbucks, being an honest trusting prairie girl she figured she must have misplaced it or left it in the car. By the time she realized what was going on and called home and we put a stop on the credit card, only about 20 mins. had elapsed the person that stole it had racked up over 4 thousand dollars. The school of hard knocks is a good teacher, and you are right fool me twice and I'm as much to blame. Couldn't agree more! My comment about where the starting line is on the karma circle was a sincere question, just wanted your thoughts on the mechanics of life. Have a good one :) :)
 

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