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looking for a better crossbred

scout

Well-known member
Its almost time to pull the bulls here in Iowa on our outfit. some of the bulls are getting up there in age. we run a small commercial herd of cows mostly angus simmy cross . we have been breeding them back to angus or simmy bulls . we have considered using a hereford bull and getting the always popular baldy. i,ve been told herefords will add some frame and pounds to these angus calves . also thought about the charolais but black hides seem to add a little extra money to the calves. i would like some of your opionions.
 

Doug Thorson

Well-known member
I raise Herefords so you know what I think. I personally don't think you can go wrong crossing English breeds. I am not too high on Continental because the females don't work for me. No matter how you do it crossbreeding gives heterosis and that is the last free thing in the business.
 

Northern Rancher

Well-known member
A good Hereford bull sure won't hurt you-you'll get cows that winter a bit easier and alot better to handle. We get some pretty good calves out of our Angus/Simm cows and Horned Hereford bulls.
 

scout

Well-known member
thanks for your opionions guys we have one polled hereford now and I think we ve decided its proably are best route theres a hereford breeder about a hour from here in illinois who cuts us a deal on 18 month old bulls in the fall so he don't have to winter them till his sell the following spring.
 

DOC HARRIS

Well-known member
Doug Thorson said:
I raise Herefords so you know what I think. I personally don't think you can go wrong crossing English breeds. I am not too high on Continental because the females don't work for me. No matter how you do it crossbreeding gives heterosis and that is the last free thing in the business.
Doug-

I am a little confused regarding your comment that Continental females "...don't work for you." Could you explain what you mean?

You said that . . ."no matter how you do it, crossbreeding gives heterosis. . ." and I certainly DO agree with that statement, however - the heterosis factor is exemplified by crossing British AND Continental rather than British on British or Continental on Contintntal.

What problems have you had with Continental Breeds and to which breeds specifically are you referring?

DOC HARRIS
 

Doug Thorson

Well-known member
I have never owned an animal that wasn't English but all my neighbors have so I will reply with what I have seen.
Continental females have more size which translates to more acres per cow.
The ones I have seen don't keep their body condition as well as mine. That could be from feeding them like they were English or a thousand other factors but the fact is my cows are almost always in better shape.
A lot of them(Gelveigh is the most prevelant around here)have large udders compared to my Herefords and Baldies. I can't stand helping a calf suck.
All that being said, if I was running a terminal cross and could pick the best it would be Red Angus x Hereford cows and put a Charolais bull on them.
 

IL Rancher

Well-known member
I was out with the feedlot guy last week talking to him about crossbreeding and terminal sires and the like.. Just asking him for advice and what he was seeing since they do carcass reports and the like.. Not saying I was going to follow the advice but it was interesting to get a different point of few.. Wasn't too high on Continental breeding right now but they push for choice cattle and a lot of the cont influenced cattle the clients are sending in (They are a custum feeder) just don't ring the bell in that manner.. But than again he also made the comment of the first thing you are selling is pounds so he wasn't completely negative on the Gelb, Simmi, Char lines (Although he was pretty negative on Limis and Maines)..

All in all it was a rather interesting hour at the feedyard, still trying to put together everything that was said to me..
 

PPRM

Well-known member
IL Rancher said:
I was out with the feedlot guy last week talking to him about crossbreeding and terminal sires and the like.. Just asking him for advice and what he was seeing since they do carcass reports and the like.. Not saying I was going to follow the advice but it was interesting to get a different point of few.. Wasn't too high on Continental breeding right now but they push for choice cattle and a lot of the cont influenced cattle the clients are sending in (They are a custum feeder) just don't ring the bell in that manner.. But than again he also made the comment of the first thing you are selling is pounds so he wasn't completely negative on the Gelb, Simmi, Char lines (Although he was pretty negative on Limis and Maines)..

All in all it was a rather interesting hour at the feedyard, still trying to put together everything that was said to me..

Hmmmmmmm.....I am hitting 83% Choice sorting my own cattle.....A lot are saleyard cattle, but I like the way a Simmental cross calf performs on feed and on the rail.....Heck, I had a group of straight Charlais grade predominently Choice 1's a few years back and averaged about $1350 on the paycheck per head...........Best I ever did....

I personally use a Simmental angus cross as well....If you are looking for females, maybe hereford would not be a bad choice. I was at a conference where the Hereford folks were showing the effects on fertility of throwing Hereford into the mix. It was pretty impressive...


I also by chance have some cows with some Saler influence. Not by plan, just picked up some good crossbred pairs. these have done very well for me. I figure they seem to be out of favor just enough to be the next hot new thing, LOL,

PPRM
 

IL Rancher

Well-known member
His comment on the various breeds of Conts there were that the Chars and Simmi influenced cross cattle would have the best chance of grading choice (Especially if you had the right bloodlines) and the Limousin would have the worst... He was probably highest on the Simmis to be honest but he did like the Char cattle that came through... Gelbvieh he really liked the pounds they put on but his longest term client with them was still not getting good % of choice cattle out of it, nice looking steers however (Mostly Balancer)

I think so much is going to be the exposure to what bloodlines come in. They get cattle from all over but mostly east of the Mississippi and than Iowa and Missouri. But at the same time these are folks who are trying to keep records to see if what they are doing is working or not (And who knows, they might not know what they are doing, lol).
 

scout

Well-known member
IL Rancher said:
I was out with the feedlot guy last week talking to him about crossbreeding and terminal sires and the like.. Just asking him for advice and what he was seeing since they do carcass reports and the like.. Not saying I was going to follow the advice but it was interesting to get a different point of few.. Wasn't too high on Continental breeding right now but they push for choice cattle and a lot of the cont influenced cattle the clients are sending in (They are a custum feeder) just don't ring the bell in that manner.. But than again he also made the comment of the first thing you are selling is pounds so he wasn't completely negative on the Gelb, Simmi, Char lines (Although he was pretty negative on Limis and Maines)..

All in all it was a rather interesting hour at the feedyard, still trying to put together everything that was said to me..
I read a article in the angus news that dealt with a interview with a packer. He said the industry wants a 75 or 50 Percent angus crossed with a 25 or 50 percent contiental breeding. But a note The manager of the sale yard we use told me to stay a way from the limmys because his western feed yards don't want them because there to tight muscled .
 

Mike

Well-known member
scout said:
IL Rancher said:
I was out with the feedlot guy last week talking to him about crossbreeding and terminal sires and the like.. Just asking him for advice and what he was seeing since they do carcass reports and the like.. Not saying I was going to follow the advice but it was interesting to get a different point of few.. Wasn't too high on Continental breeding right now but they push for choice cattle and a lot of the cont influenced cattle the clients are sending in (They are a custum feeder) just don't ring the bell in that manner.. But than again he also made the comment of the first thing you are selling is pounds so he wasn't completely negative on the Gelb, Simmi, Char lines (Although he was pretty negative on Limis and Maines)..

All in all it was a rather interesting hour at the feedyard, still trying to put together everything that was said to me..
I read a article in the angus news that dealt with a interview with a packer. He said the industry wants a 75 or 50 Percent angus crossed with a 25 or 50 percent contiental breeding. But a note The manager of the sale yard we use told me to stay a way from the limmys because his western feed yards don't want them because there to tight muscled .

What is "Tight Muscled"? and how does that effect the final product?
 

DOC HARRIS

Well-known member
"Too tight muscled??" What the heck is that supposed to mean? I think that some of these "Feedlot" and "Sale Barn" people THINK that they know more about the cattle business than Cattle producers themselves know! Everybody in the industry should be on the same page, and from what I just read from the American Angus Association - they have a new program that seems to be addressing that very problem. We'll wait and see!

DOC HARRIS
 

scout

Well-known member
DOC HARRIS said:
"Too tight muscled??" What the heck is that supposed to mean? I think that some of these "Feedlot" and "Sale Barn" people THINK that they know more about the cattle business than Cattle producers themselves know! Everybody in the industry should be on the same page, and from what I just read from the American Angus Association - they have a new program that seems to be addressing that very problem. We'll wait and see!

DOC HARRIS
I cannot answer that question with 100% sureness but I assume they lack the marbling and just look at a limmy they are very muscular. we use to run red angus limmy cross cows crossed back to a red simmy bull. they were great cows . the only problem with them was they got worked up a little fast. as for the feedlot and sale barn people there around the market place everyday .we are a cow calf operation so those are customers , there getting feed back from there customers the consumer . and those are the people that need to be satisfied. I agree with you we the producers do need a universal feed back line. So we can produce a consist product that the consumer enjoys
 

CattleArmy

Well-known member
I think a Herford cross on Angus is a good selection. It appears to me in the event an angus herd gets to straight they don't seem to weigh up like those with some cross breeding. Just my opinion. Angus/Charlaios (sp) crosses that we have had in the past by the accident of the neighbor bull have always outweighed our other calves but in the event here have been white or a dark grey making them difficult to fit into the other black hides. I was also told that rat tails are common in this cross breed.
 

Kato

Well-known member
We run Limo bulls on white Char cows. It works for us. Our cows are moderate framed, and aren't any bigger than the black cows in the neighbourhood. The cross gives a tan calf with a real good hind end and thick over the back. The heifers feed like steers, and the ones we sell as calves sell very well.

It's not a common cross, but we like it.

This is what they look like when they're babies.

calf2007.jpg
 

scout

Well-known member
It really comes down to what a specific person wants . theres always the enviorment the animal is raised in and a million different factors to go with it. my favorit terminal cross is a good angus hereford cross cow bred back to a good charolais bull. the calves seem to be a little heavier if sold as feeder calves , and do good in the feedlot. the only problem with the calves is the lack of a black hide which is a must here if you want to get the high price for your calves.
 
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