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Manitoba cow is "atypical"

Tam

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Tam said:
Sandhusker said:
Tam, lets consider Canada's last BSE positive - the 4 year old; Do you think that if she was shipped a couple of months before she was identified that we would of found her?

If she was slaughter in Canada her SRM's would have been removed and that according to World known science is what makes the meat safe not the Test . Wouldn't they have been removed properly in the US Sandhusker?

You didn't answer the question, Tam. I asked about her being shipped down here, not being slaughtered up there. I didn't think my question was that hard to understand. Want to try again?

Sandhusker you said shipped, you said NOTHING in the original question about down here. And the "We", I figure that you seem to be looking harder to find them in Canada than you are in the US so sorry I took the shipped as "shipped" period :wink:
That said, she would more likely have been tested when not showing signs in the US than she would have been if she was showing them. Targeted cattle in the US seem to be those still walking upright into slaughter plants. Those that can't walk disappear or did you forget the Washington Cow, according to the plant employee, was walking but the falling down cow in Texas disappeared before samples were taken :(

And Sandhusker if she had been shipped to the US and not tested her meat should have still been safe IF the US slaughter industry carries out the rules that the USDA wrote on the recommendations of the World Experts.
Or did you forget that, that is why the recommendations say that we are to remove the SRM's as that is thee number one food safety measure NOT THE TEST. Are you telling us the USDA FOOD SAFETY rules are not being carried out by the US Beef Industry to insure food safety? Blame the USDA again Sandhusker as they are not able to watch every producer, every feed manufacturer and every packer 24/7 to make sure you are all following the rules that are written. :roll:

I have a question for you how many BSE infected US cattle do you think the US is missing because of your testing protocol? :? and if you are missing them is the meat safe for your consumer to eat?????
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Cattle not showing signs are more likely to be tested down here than those showing signs? Are you sure about that?

Tam, "I have a question for you how many BSE infected US cattle do you think the US is missing because of your testing protocol? and if you are missing them is the meat safe for your consumer to eat?????"

I don't know how many we are missing. Maybe 100s, maybe none. The way the USDA is running the testing show, any guess is as good as the next.

Here's the way I see it; That cow, and others just like her, could of been shipped down here and here we are with a BSE positive animal that would of been slaughtered and not tested. That meat then would of went to our customers. You might believe SRM removal eliminates the risk of BSE, but I think it is lunacy to believe the same bloodstream that carries the disease to SRMs does not carry it to muscle tissue. So here we are distributing tainted meat to our customers, and for what? We have everything to lose and absolutely nothing to gain.
 

Tam

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Cattle not showing signs are more likely to be tested down here than those showing signs? Are you sure about that?

Tam, "I have a question for you how many BSE infected US cattle do you think the US is missing because of your testing protocol? and if you are missing them is the meat safe for your consumer to eat?????"

I don't know how many we are missing. Maybe 100s, maybe none. The way the USDA is running the testing show, any guess is as good as the next.

Here's the way I see it; That cow, and others just like her, could of been shipped down here and here we are with a BSE positive animal that would of been slaughtered and not tested. That meat then would of went to our customers. You might believe SRM removal eliminates the risk of BSE, but I think it is lunacy to believe the same bloodstream that carries the disease to SRMs does not carry it to muscle tissue. So here we are distributing tainted meat to our customers, and for what? We have everything to lose and absolutely nothing to gain.


Here's the way I see it; US positive cows, could also be slaughtered and not tested, maybe 100s of them, those that you just admitted the USDA could be missing. That US meat then would be sold to your customers or exported to Canada. So here you are distributing tainted meat to your customers and exporting it putting foreign consumers at risk too, and for what? Those HISTORICALLY HIGH CATTLE PRICES YOU BOOST ABOUT BECAUSE OF THE BAN ON OUR CATTLE AND BEEF :wink:

If you truly believe the SRM removal is lunacy then why haven't you and R-CALF, with all your concern for Human health and mistrust in the USDA, demanded the banning the sale of ALL BEEF INCLUDING US BEEF, and EXPORTING OF US BEEF putting Foreign consumer at risk? OR DID YOU FORGET THE US HAS BSE IN THEIR HERD TOO? Maybe it is time for you to take a look at your stand and see what a hypocrite you are. Banning Canadian cattle and beef as it threatens the health of US consumers but business as usual with your cattle and beef even though we all know you also have BSE. :roll: And what were those firewalls that Leo was talking about I thought Leo said consumers didn't have to worry as you had firewall in place if BSE was ever found in the US. :???:
 

ranch hand

Well-known member
Tam :wink: you :wink: are :wink: taking :wink: Leo's :wink: statement :wink: out :wink: of :wink: context :wink: and :wink: using :wink: it :wink: for :wink: a :wink: major :wink: spin :wink: job :wink: to :wink: fit :wink: what :wink: ever :wink: you :wink: want :wink: to :wink: post :wink: just :wink: so :wink: you :wink: can :wink: use :wink: this :wink: damn :wink: emocticon. :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:
 

Tam

Well-known member
WRONG emoticon Ranch hand I used :???: but are you Denying he made the statement ranch hand? I heard it with my own ears and this is what he said
“we know if we are going to keep consumer confidence we are going to maintain some of the highest standards in the world to make sure that BSE is not introduced into this country. And we are going to make sure we have the best meat and bone meal ban in this country in place. So if for some reason we did find a case we can stand and look our consumers right in the eye and say, don’t worry we have had these firewalls in place for years, the only country prior to having a case of BSE to have these firewalls in place for so many years. And we did it to make sure if a case was ever found it was a non-issue. If we look them right in the eye and say that I will guarantee they will keep eating beef
Hard to take that out of context when he said "So if for some reason we did find a case we can stand and look our consumers right in the eye and say, don’t worry we have had these firewalls in place "

And if you look on the R-CALF web site you will also see comments about the firewalls that you have IN PLACE.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Tam said:
WRONG emoticon Ranch hand I used :???: but are you Denying he made the statement ranch hand? I heard it with my own ears and this is what he said
“we know if we are going to keep consumer confidence we are going to maintain some of the highest standards in the world to make sure that BSE is not introduced into this country. And we are going to make sure we have the best meat and bone meal ban in this country in place. So if for some reason we did find a case we can stand and look our consumers right in the eye and say, don’t worry we have had these firewalls in place for years, the only country prior to having a case of BSE to have these firewalls in place for so many years. And we did it to make sure if a case was ever found it was a non-issue. If we look them right in the eye and say that I will guarantee they will keep eating beef
Hard to take that out of context when he said "So if for some reason we did find a case we can stand and look our consumers right in the eye and say, don’t worry we have had these firewalls in place "

And if you look on the R-CALF web site you will also see comments about the firewalls that you have IN PLACE.

And one of the best ways to keep consumer confidence is for us (US) to not be importing from HIGHER RISK BSE COUNTRIES (I Know where the Caps lock is too Tammy :wink: :lol: )- so that we don't have to hear aobut Japan stalling for months because the US was forcing them to tie Canada into the deal too- read about S. Korea turning down our beef because Canadian cattle aren't segregated out- or after every Canadian Mad Cow of the Month report we don't have to read in all the US consumer magazines and websites full page stories of Canadas growing BSE problem and how the US is allowing unlabeled Canadian beef to be sold in the US....

Tam- best idea-- you keep your cows and beef- then you won't have to have those fantasys about Leo and nightmares about Boogeyman Bill :wink: :lol:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
reader (the Second) said:
By the way, I don't think the Manitoba cow was atypical.

I saw the word atypical used in an article about a 13 year old Manitoban cow, but it was not referring to the type of BSE. Other than that, I can find NO evidence of an atypical case being found in Canada. Links please.

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/anima/heasan/disemala/bseesb/mb2006/6investe.shtml

Canada has confirmed its sixth case of BSE. The five previous cases of BSE found in Canada were characterised as being similar to the majority of the BSE cases found around the world; however, this sixth case is a less prevalent strain of BSE which has also been reported in Europe and in the U.S.

Go to the part about Investigation Overview-- It says it is the same as the US strain (which was atypical)... I also received a call last weekend from a very good source that said this cow was "atypical" and then it was announced Tuesday or Wednesday on the Northern Ag Network that this was an "atypical strain"........
 

Tam

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Tam said:
WRONG emoticon Ranch hand I used :???: but are you Denying he made the statement ranch hand? I heard it with my own ears and this is what he said
“we know if we are going to keep consumer confidence we are going to maintain some of the highest standards in the world to make sure that BSE is not introduced into this country. And we are going to make sure we have the best meat and bone meal ban in this country in place. So if for some reason we did find a case we can stand and look our consumers right in the eye and say, don’t worry we have had these firewalls in place for years, the only country prior to having a case of BSE to have these firewalls in place for so many years. And we did it to make sure if a case was ever found it was a non-issue. If we look them right in the eye and say that I will guarantee they will keep eating beef
Hard to take that out of context when he said "So if for some reason we did find a case we can stand and look our consumers right in the eye and say, don’t worry we have had these firewalls in place "

And if you look on the R-CALF web site you will also see comments about the firewalls that you have IN PLACE.

And one of the best ways to keep consumer confidence is for us (US) to not be importing from HIGHER RISK BSE COUNTRIES (I Know where the Caps lock is too Tammy :wink: :lol: )- so that we don't have to hear aobut Japan stalling for months because the US was forcing them to tie Canada into the deal too- read about S. Korea turning down our beef because Canadian cattle aren't segregated out- or after every Canadian Mad Cow of the Month report we don't have to read in all the US consumer magazines and websites full page stories of Canadas growing BSE problem and how the US is allowing unlabeled Canadian beef to be sold in the US....

Tam- best idea-- you keep your cows and beef- then you won't have to have those fantasys about Leo and nightmares about Boogeyman Bill :wink: :lol:

Gee Oldtimer I wonder what your consumers thought when they hear Japan reban US beef and was still taking Canadian beef???? Or what they thought when they found out the US found a positive cow that had been confirmed negitive 7 months before? Or that the US feed industry is still making large amounts of contaminated feed and shipping to producers? and that some producers are more interested in the problems in another countries than they are in their OWN BSE CASES? And those same Producers are the ones that don't want M'ID as that will give the USDA a means to find those producers that are putting them (the consumers) at risk with their animals? THE BEST WAY TO KEEP CONSUMER CONFIDENCE IS MUZZLE THE R-CALF LEADERS AND SOME OF THEIR MEMBERSHIP. :gag: :nod:
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Tam, "If you truly believe the SRM removal is lunacy then why haven't you and R-CALF, with all your concern for Human health and mistrust in the USDA, demanded the banning the sale of ALL BEEF INCLUDING US BEEF, and EXPORTING OF US BEEF putting Foreign consumer at risk? OR DID YOU FORGET THE US HAS BSE IN THEIR HERD TOO"

The shortcoming of SRM removal are my opinion, not R-CALFs. You need to learn how to seperate individuals from organization policy.

If our customers have a concern with the safety of our beef, I believe they are entitled to those concerns and those concerns should be addressed. I believe R-CALF shares that sentiment as per their standings on Japan. We're not like others who feel a trade agreement should trump common sense.
 

Tam

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Tam, "If you truly believe the SRM removal is lunacy then why haven't you and R-CALF, with all your concern for Human health and mistrust in the USDA, demanded the banning the sale of ALL BEEF INCLUDING US BEEF, and EXPORTING OF US BEEF putting Foreign consumer at risk? OR DID YOU FORGET THE US HAS BSE IN THEIR HERD TOO"

The shortcoming of SRM removal are my opinion, not R-CALFs. You need to learn how to seperate individuals from organization policy.

If our customers have a concern with the safety of our beef, I believe they are entitled to those concerns and those concerns should be addressed. I believe R-CALF shares that sentiment as per their standings on Japan. We're not like others who feel a trade agreement should trump common sense.

Yours and Oldtimer OPINION, So are you telling us that R-CALFs loudest month pieces on Ranchers don't agree with R-CALF on this point? Does R-CALF believe in SRM removal? If they do then why do they have a problem with our beef? WE REMOVE THE SRM's. Can't guarantee the US industry's does but I guess Japan must think we do as they didn't reban our beef like they did yours.

And if consumers have a problem with our beef, THEY should be the ones demanding the border be closed not a BEEF ORGANIZATION that has been trying for years to get it closed as to protect your CATTLE PRICES.
If this was seen as a true health issue everyone in the US would be speaking up not just a protectionist isolationist bunch of ranchers. You only flipped to the health issues when your pleads to keep the border closed because of your cattle prices failed. Now that BSE has been found in the US the health issues are down played on YOUR BEEF to basicly non exsistant, with talk of the firewalls the US has. But not on any other countries beef even though some of those countries firewalls are stricter that any in the US. Your beef is just as risky if not worst, as the US industry doesn't alway follow the rule like they CLAIM THEY DO. If you think Beef is tainted even after the SRM's are removed I suggest you start a campaigne to stop selling beef in the US , ALL BEEF NOT JUST IMPORTED.
Wonder what will happen at your bank when you start telling producers they are not to sell any cattle as they are putting consumers at risk. :shock:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Tam said:
Sandhusker said:
Tam, "If you truly believe the SRM removal is lunacy then why haven't you and R-CALF, with all your concern for Human health and mistrust in the USDA, demanded the banning the sale of ALL BEEF INCLUDING US BEEF, and EXPORTING OF US BEEF putting Foreign consumer at risk? OR DID YOU FORGET THE US HAS BSE IN THEIR HERD TOO"

The shortcoming of SRM removal are my opinion, not R-CALFs. You need to learn how to seperate individuals from organization policy.

If our customers have a concern with the safety of our beef, I believe they are entitled to those concerns and those concerns should be addressed. I believe R-CALF shares that sentiment as per their standings on Japan. We're not like others who feel a trade agreement should trump common sense.

Yours and Oldtimer OPINION, So are you telling us that R-CALFs loudest month pieces on Ranchers don't agree with R-CALF on this point? Does R-CALF believe in SRM removal? If they do then why do they have a problem with our beef? WE REMOVE THE SRM's. Can't guarantee the US industry's does but I guess Japan must think we do as they didn't reban our beef like they did yours.

And if consumers have a problem with our beef, THEY should be the ones demanding the border be closed not a BEEF ORGANIZATION that has been trying for years to get it closed as to protect your CATTLE PRICES.
If this was seen as a true health issue everyone in the US would be speaking up not just a protectionist isolationist bunch of ranchers. You only flipped to the health issues when your pleads to keep the border closed because of your cattle prices failed. Now that BSE has been found in the US the health issues are down played on YOUR BEEF to basicly non exsistant, with talk of the firewalls the US has. But not on any other countries beef even though some of those countries firewalls are stricter that any in the US. Your beef is just as risky if not worst, as the US industry doesn't alway follow the rule like they CLAIM THEY DO. If you think Beef is tainted even after the SRM's are removed I suggest you start a campaigne to stop selling beef in the US , ALL BEEF NOT JUST IMPORTED.
Wonder what will happen at your bank when you start telling producers they are not to sell any cattle as they are putting consumers at risk. :shock:

Tam- You don't think that cattlemen or a cattlemans organization should be concerned with BSE- and keeping it from getting into or spreading in their countries herd :???: You don't think that BSE can devastate a cattle economy? You been sleeping the last couple years- Tam? Or did the Doc just change your medication again? Since you're now a Caunuck, I'd expect you to recognize the danger to the cattle industry before anyone else... :roll: Just because Canadian cattle groups all sat on their hineys and did nothing for your BSE problem except let the Packers have free run, doesn't mean that we have to do that.....

And Tam- Consumer groups were talking and demanding that USDA do something about the BSE and the Canadian problem...And they still are- Do you want me to repost the post where the consumers and medical groups were ironically meeting with Johanns on the same day you announced your last 4 year old Mad Cow of the Month?
 

Tam

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Tam said:
Sandhusker said:
Tam, "If you truly believe the SRM removal is lunacy then why haven't you and R-CALF, with all your concern for Human health and mistrust in the USDA, demanded the banning the sale of ALL BEEF INCLUDING US BEEF, and EXPORTING OF US BEEF putting Foreign consumer at risk? OR DID YOU FORGET THE US HAS BSE IN THEIR HERD TOO"

The shortcoming of SRM removal are my opinion, not R-CALFs. You need to learn how to seperate individuals from organization policy.

If our customers have a concern with the safety of our beef, I believe they are entitled to those concerns and those concerns should be addressed. I believe R-CALF shares that sentiment as per their standings on Japan. We're not like others who feel a trade agreement should trump common sense.

Yours and Oldtimer OPINION, So are you telling us that R-CALFs loudest month pieces on Ranchers don't agree with R-CALF on this point? Does R-CALF believe in SRM removal? If they do then why do they have a problem with our beef? WE REMOVE THE SRM's. Can't guarantee the US industry's does but I guess Japan must think we do as they didn't reban our beef like they did yours.

And if consumers have a problem with our beef, THEY should be the ones demanding the border be closed not a BEEF ORGANIZATION that has been trying for years to get it closed as to protect your CATTLE PRICES.
If this was seen as a true health issue everyone in the US would be speaking up not just a protectionist isolationist bunch of ranchers. You only flipped to the health issues when your pleads to keep the border closed because of your cattle prices failed. Now that BSE has been found in the US the health issues are down played on YOUR BEEF to basicly non exsistant, with talk of the firewalls the US has. But not on any other countries beef even though some of those countries firewalls are stricter that any in the US. Your beef is just as risky if not worst, as the US industry doesn't alway follow the rule like they CLAIM THEY DO. If you think Beef is tainted even after the SRM's are removed I suggest you start a campaigne to stop selling beef in the US , ALL BEEF NOT JUST IMPORTED.
Wonder what will happen at your bank when you start telling producers they are not to sell any cattle as they are putting consumers at risk. :shock:

Tam- You don't think that cattlemen or a cattlemans organization should be concerned with BSE- and keeping it from getting into or spreading in their countries herd :???: You don't think that BSE can devastate a cattle economy? You been sleeping the last couple years- Tam? Or did the Doc just change your medication again? Since you're now a Caunuck, I'd expect you to recognize the danger to the cattle industry before anyone else... :roll: Just because Canadian cattle groups all sat on their hineys and did nothing for your BSE problem except let the Packers have free run, doesn't mean that we have to do that.....

And Tam- Consumer groups were talking and demanding that USDA do something about the BSE and the Canadian problem...And they still are- Do you want me to repost the post where the consumers and medical groups were ironically meeting with Johanns on the same day you announced your last 4 year old Mad Cow of the Month?

A Cattlemens organization should be concern. What they should not do is use unwarrented fearmongering to further their real agenda and that is to close the border to stop competition in what they claim is a free market place. I will say this again IF THIS WAS A REAL HEALTH ISSUE YOU, IF YOU CARE AS MUCH AS YOU LET ON, WOULD BE DEMANDING THE BANNING OF ALL BEEF NOT JUST IMPORTED UNTIL YOUR BSE CAUSE AND SOURCE ARE KNOWN. and the proper testing protocol is used in the US to show true prevalance.

You claim we were sitting on our hineys WHAT about the US industry? We at least took proactive measures to protect our industry by up grading our feed bans to include three known sources of cross contamination years ago and we proactively implemented a National ID system to aid in finding any animals birthplace in case of any reportable disease. We also turn over the CORRECT cattle for our government to test to find true prevalance in our herd. Just what did the US industry do PROACTIVELY. The Canadian industry is proactive and you are reactive and you are VERY SLOW to react I might add. You find it better to divert attention from your problems. I guess you think they will just go away if you seal your borders. Here is a hint OLDTIMER Native BSE will not just go away if you don't clean up the source and stop manufacturing contaminated feed and feeding it to your herd, no matter how sealed your border is.
 

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