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Microsoft threatens to move jobs out of US

loomixguy

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Sandhusker said:
What about the GREED of the unions who drove the hand that fed them into bankruptcy?
Why did management agree to these contracts :???: I've arbitrated and negotiated with several unions- you don't have to give in to them...


What about the GREED of Senate Banking Committee Chairs who took bribes from those those he was to oversee?

Prove it....Why haven't they been charged :???: Repubs controlled the Congress for 12 years- and the Administration/Justice Dept for the past 8-- if these folks were committing crimes- why weren't they investigated- and charged :???:

.

YOU are a good one to demand PROOF, AT.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Sandhusker said:
What about the GREED of the unions who drove the hand that fed them into bankruptcy?
Why did management agree to these contracts :???: I've arbitrated and negotiated with several unions- you don't have to give in to them...


What about the GREED of Senate Banking Committee Chairs who took bribes from those those he was to oversee?

Prove it....Why haven't they been charged :???: Repubs controlled the Congress for 12 years- and the Administration/Justice Dept for the past 8-- if these folks were committing crimes- why weren't they investigated- and charged :???:

.

So it's management's fault that the unions are greedy?

You're telling me that you actually believe that Dodd is innocent?
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Tex said:
aplusmnt said:
Tex said:
aplus, the brevity of my statement was meant to allow you to think but you seemed to use it as an excuse to not think any deeper than a liberal vs. conservative label you have made up in your head.

We need a little more thought than the simpleton argument you propose.



Tex

Problem is we think we different sides of the brain! I have given it just as much deep thought as you, only difference in my deep thought I came to the conclusion to do what has worked in the past and not repeat the failed tries of over taxation.

It truly is a simple view to realize if you make something more rewarding to do that businesses will do it. Why is everything about Tax, Tax, Tax.

If you think heavy taxes are proven to work for businesses then please explain why companies take their companies and move from California to the Midwest on almost daily.

Some one with thought would realize if a company moves a thousand jobs from California to the Midwest to save on taxes that there is something to cutting taxes. Only question is rather the U.S. will follow the California model that is going bankrupt or follow the model of states who lower taxes and see growth.

The answer has always been in the puzzle, you just have to keep putting it together long enough to see the picture in front of your face!

I don't believe the answer is to tax tax tax either. There is a big disconnect between politicians who spend more than they take in via taxes. They can borrow the difference, print money, or tax. None of them are good in excess and all have costs.

When you think you can get away from those three items, you just don't know what you are talking about. I don't think you can collect no taxes, nor do I think you should inflate your way out of it nor do I think we should just put the debt on our kids.

I sure don't believe we should just let very rich people make the argument that they will take their money and run if we don't decrease their taxes. If they run, don't let them sell in the U.S. anymore and siphon money out of the U.S. Make them have as much of an interest in putting things back in balance instead of running from the problem and leaving everyone else behind.

The recent "conservative" argument has to been to stop taxing. That only leaves the other two items and they have totally over borrowed leaving a huge national debt.

They also made the deal of shipping in cheap Chinese goods in return for Chinese buying t bills. It has allowed the communist Chinese government to basically buy industries here in the U.S. without increasing interest rates, which is what borrowing usually does. The politicians have pulled one over on us keeping the party going and putting everything on the nation's credit card, which will have to be paid back.

Your "stop taxing" argument instead of stop spending argument has put our nation in serious financial straits because the credit card limit is being set by the Chinese. They can take those dollars they have of ours and continue to buy up the world's resources, including oil.

What can you expect from someone who can only put things in two categories, "conservative" or liberal.

You remind me of the kid that just put everything on daddy's credit card without a thought. "Please, daddy, let me party and leave you with the bill, you can give the bill to your grand kids."

Tex

No one has ever said stop taxing, the point is to tax less to stimulate growth and the result of the growth will be more tax revenue in the end. It has already been done and worked this is not a theory!

I find it funny that you think it is wrong for businesses to threaten to move if taxed more. But you find it just fine for the Government to extort the companies by saying if you leave we will not let you sell goods here no longer.

Basically what you are supporting is a Dictatorship where Americans have no choice but to do exactly as the Government says. Do you feel the same way with your own life? If you local taxes get to high do you have the right to move to where they are lower, or should the Government tell you that you have to stay exactly where you are!

My belief is that I will not want rules for others that I am not wanting to put upon myself.

Maybe if more businesses move the government will wise up and spend less and tax less.


It is funny that you see me as the kid that wants to put things on credit card, I have no credit cards I believe in cash and limited debt. I believe in fiscal responsibility something I wish Washington would start believing in.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sandhusker said:
Oldtimer said:
Sandhusker said:
What about the GREED of the unions who drove the hand that fed them into bankruptcy?
Why did management agree to these contracts :???: I've arbitrated and negotiated with several unions- you don't have to give in to them...


What about the GREED of Senate Banking Committee Chairs who took bribes from those those he was to oversee?

Prove it....Why haven't they been charged :???: Repubs controlled the Congress for 12 years- and the Administration/Justice Dept for the past 8-- if these folks were committing crimes- why weren't they investigated- and charged :???:

.

So it's management's fault that the unions are greedy?

Unions are going to ask for the most for their people every time- it doesn't mean you have to give in to them....Especially over the last 10-15 years when the atmosphere hasn't been that much pro union...

You're telling me that you actually believe that Dodd is innocent?

I have seen no evidence showing he committed any crime- all innuendo and biased articles....
The supposed crime he committed took place in 2003...If they were illegal why didn't Bush- his DOJ- and/or the Repub controlled Congress bring charges against him :???:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sandhusker said:
You've seen no evidence that Dodd did anything wrong...... :shock: I give up

No evidence he committed a crime-- or did GW and his DOJ just overlook it like they did all other laws :???:
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Sandhusker said:
You've seen no evidence that Dodd did anything wrong...... :shock: I give up

No evidence he committed a crime-- or did GW and his DOJ just overlook it like they did all other laws :???:

Taking bribes is not a crime? Damnit, OT, would you please knock off this idiotic blanket defense of these clowns and use a little common sense? Good gawd, what are you gaining?
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Oldtimer said:
Sandhusker said:
You've seen no evidence that Dodd did anything wrong...... :shock: I give up

No evidence he committed a crime-- or did GW and his DOJ just overlook it like they did all other laws :???:

Taking bribes is not a crime? Damnit, OT, would you please knock off this idiotic blanket defense of these clowns and use a little common sense? Good gawd, what are you gaining?

Like I have said before, I think OT is just messing with people on here, he wants to argue and it does not matter which side he takes. He has said before that him and his friend liked doing that (arguing both sides).

Either it is that, or he is the dumbest most biased person to ever boot up a computer, take your pick?
 

Tex

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
Tex said:
aplusmnt said:
Problem is we think we different sides of the brain! I have given it just as much deep thought as you, only difference in my deep thought I came to the conclusion to do what has worked in the past and not repeat the failed tries of over taxation.

It truly is a simple view to realize if you make something more rewarding to do that businesses will do it. Why is everything about Tax, Tax, Tax.

If you think heavy taxes are proven to work for businesses then please explain why companies take their companies and move from California to the Midwest on almost daily.

Some one with thought would realize if a company moves a thousand jobs from California to the Midwest to save on taxes that there is something to cutting taxes. Only question is rather the U.S. will follow the California model that is going bankrupt or follow the model of states who lower taxes and see growth.

The answer has always been in the puzzle, you just have to keep putting it together long enough to see the picture in front of your face!

I don't believe the answer is to tax tax tax either. There is a big disconnect between politicians who spend more than they take in via taxes. They can borrow the difference, print money, or tax. None of them are good in excess and all have costs.

When you think you can get away from those three items, you just don't know what you are talking about. I don't think you can collect no taxes, nor do I think you should inflate your way out of it nor do I think we should just put the debt on our kids.

I sure don't believe we should just let very rich people make the argument that they will take their money and run if we don't decrease their taxes. If they run, don't let them sell in the U.S. anymore and siphon money out of the U.S. Make them have as much of an interest in putting things back in balance instead of running from the problem and leaving everyone else behind.

The recent "conservative" argument has to been to stop taxing. That only leaves the other two items and they have totally over borrowed leaving a huge national debt.

They also made the deal of shipping in cheap Chinese goods in return for Chinese buying t bills. It has allowed the communist Chinese government to basically buy industries here in the U.S. without increasing interest rates, which is what borrowing usually does. The politicians have pulled one over on us keeping the party going and putting everything on the nation's credit card, which will have to be paid back.

Your "stop taxing" argument instead of stop spending argument has put our nation in serious financial straits because the credit card limit is being set by the Chinese. They can take those dollars they have of ours and continue to buy up the world's resources, including oil.

What can you expect from someone who can only put things in two categories, "conservative" or liberal.

You remind me of the kid that just put everything on daddy's credit card without a thought. "Please, daddy, let me party and leave you with the bill, you can give the bill to your grand kids."

Tex

No one has ever said stop taxing, the point is to tax less to stimulate growth and the result of the growth will be more tax revenue in the end. It has already been done and worked this is not a theory!

I find it funny that you think it is wrong for businesses to threaten to move if taxed more. But you find it just fine for the Government to extort the companies by saying if you leave we will not let you sell goods here no longer.

Basically what you are supporting is a Dictatorship where Americans have no choice but to do exactly as the Government says. Do you feel the same way with your own life? If you local taxes get to high do you have the right to move to where they are lower, or should the Government tell you that you have to stay exactly where you are!

My belief is that I will not want rules for others that I am not wanting to put upon myself.

Maybe if more businesses move the government will wise up and spend less and tax less.


It is funny that you see me as the kid that wants to put things on credit card, I have no credit cards I believe in cash and limited debt. I believe in fiscal responsibility something I wish Washington would start believing in.

I don't have a problem with businesses getting out of the U.S.. I have a problem with them getting out of the U.S. and then keeping their sales here in the U.S.

No, I don't support the government being as bad as it has been. I do support making everyone that is in the U.S. sharing the pain collectively instead of going off shore. I think when we have business in the U.S. run by people who are based off shore, they don't have the same incentives as the people who are left. The U.S. will be nothing more than another goose to be squeezed to death without the squeezers having to deal with the body of a dead spent goose (to use the goose that laid the golden egg analogy). The best chance at changing things will be to keep the money that was made in the U.S. here in the U.S. instead of being exported. We made the Japanese build auto plants here in the U.S., they had a better relationship with labor, and they did better than our domestic companies. They also kept those jobs here in the U.S. instead of exporting them to Japan.



Tex
 

TSR

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
Tex said:
aplusmnt said:
Problem is we think we different sides of the brain! I have given it just as much deep thought as you, only difference in my deep thought I came to the conclusion to do what has worked in the past and not repeat the failed tries of over taxation.

It truly is a simple view to realize if you make something more rewarding to do that businesses will do it. Why is everything about Tax, Tax, Tax.

If you think heavy taxes are proven to work for businesses then please explain why companies take their companies and move from California to the Midwest on almost daily.

Some one with thought would realize if a company moves a thousand jobs from California to the Midwest to save on taxes that there is something to cutting taxes. Only question is rather the U.S. will follow the California model that is going bankrupt or follow the model of states who lower taxes and see growth.

The answer has always been in the puzzle, you just have to keep putting it together long enough to see the picture in front of your face!

I don't believe the answer is to tax tax tax either. There is a big disconnect between politicians who spend more than they take in via taxes. They can borrow the difference, print money, or tax. None of them are good in excess and all have costs.

When you think you can get away from those three items, you just don't know what you are talking about. I don't think you can collect no taxes, nor do I think you should inflate your way out of it nor do I think we should just put the debt on our kids.

I sure don't believe we should just let very rich people make the argument that they will take their money and run if we don't decrease their taxes. If they run, don't let them sell in the U.S. anymore and siphon money out of the U.S. Make them have as much of an interest in putting things back in balance instead of running from the problem and leaving everyone else behind.

The recent "conservative" argument has to been to stop taxing. That only leaves the other two items and they have totally over borrowed leaving a huge national debt.

They also made the deal of shipping in cheap Chinese goods in return for Chinese buying t bills. It has allowed the communist Chinese government to basically buy industries here in the U.S. without increasing interest rates, which is what borrowing usually does. The politicians have pulled one over on us keeping the party going and putting everything on the nation's credit card, which will have to be paid back.

Your "stop taxing" argument instead of stop spending argument has put our nation in serious financial straits because the credit card limit is being set by the Chinese. They can take those dollars they have of ours and continue to buy up the world's resources, including oil.

What can you expect from someone who can only put things in two categories, "conservative" or liberal.

You remind me of the kid that just put everything on daddy's credit card without a thought. "Please, daddy, let me party and leave you with the bill, you can give the bill to your grand kids."

Tex

No one has ever said stop taxing, the point is to tax less to stimulate growth and the result of the growth will be more tax revenue in the end. It has already been done and worked this is not a theory!

I find it funny that you think it is wrong for businesses to threaten to move if taxed more. But you find it just fine for the Government to extort the companies by saying if you leave we will not let you sell goods here no longer.

Basically what you are supporting is a Dictatorship where Americans have no choice but to do exactly as the Government says. Do you feel the same way with your own life? If you local taxes get to high do you have the right to move to where they are lower, or should the Government tell you that you have to stay exactly where you are!

My belief is that I will not want rules for others that I am not wanting to put upon myself.

Maybe if more businesses move the government will wise up and spend less and tax less.


It is funny that you see me as the kid that wants to put things on credit card, I have no credit cards I believe in cash and limited debt. I believe in fiscal responsibility something I wish Washington would start believing in.

A friend of mine bought a farm and discovered it had some valuable minerals on it. A local mining company paid him for the right to mine those minerals. They had to have made some good profits because my friend certainly did as he told me so. Could they have made any money without access to those minerals? No. This is what I am saying, companies like microsoft that have enormous influence are trying to dictate tax policy without regard to where most of their profits were made-right here in America. Is this market not worth paying a little more for, if Congress says so? Its not NECESSARILY a matter of whether you are for or against more taxes. Is it ok for conglomerates like Microsoft to exert their influence publicly and arrogantly in such a manner as to make Congress do its bidding with respect to taxes? And like Tex implies when they make such threats whats the only thing we have to retaliate??-- this lucrative market, the American consumer. If they get away with dictating tax policy for themselves then we might as well send our representatives home. Of course, imo this is what they have been doing for about the last 8-10 yrs anyway, maybe they've been spoiled somewhat.
 

per

Well-known member
Tex said:
aplusmnt said:
Tex said:
I don't believe the answer is to tax tax tax either. There is a big disconnect between politicians who spend more than they take in via taxes. They can borrow the difference, print money, or tax. None of them are good in excess and all have costs.

When you think you can get away from those three items, you just don't know what you are talking about. I don't think you can collect no taxes, nor do I think you should inflate your way out of it nor do I think we should just put the debt on our kids.

I sure don't believe we should just let very rich people make the argument that they will take their money and run if we don't decrease their taxes. If they run, don't let them sell in the U.S. anymore and siphon money out of the U.S. Make them have as much of an interest in putting things back in balance instead of running from the problem and leaving everyone else behind.

The recent "conservative" argument has to been to stop taxing. That only leaves the other two items and they have totally over borrowed leaving a huge national debt.

They also made the deal of shipping in cheap Chinese goods in return for Chinese buying t bills. It has allowed the communist Chinese government to basically buy industries here in the U.S. without increasing interest rates, which is what borrowing usually does. The politicians have pulled one over on us keeping the party going and putting everything on the nation's credit card, which will have to be paid back.

Your "stop taxing" argument instead of stop spending argument has put our nation in serious financial straits because the credit card limit is being set by the Chinese. They can take those dollars they have of ours and continue to buy up the world's resources, including oil.

What can you expect from someone who can only put things in two categories, "conservative" or liberal.

You remind me of the kid that just put everything on daddy's credit card without a thought. "Please, daddy, let me party and leave you with the bill, you can give the bill to your grand kids."

Tex

No one has ever said stop taxing, the point is to tax less to stimulate growth and the result of the growth will be more tax revenue in the end. It has already been done and worked this is not a theory!

I find it funny that you think it is wrong for businesses to threaten to move if taxed more. But you find it just fine for the Government to extort the companies by saying if you leave we will not let you sell goods here no longer.

Basically what you are supporting is a Dictatorship where Americans have no choice but to do exactly as the Government says. Do you feel the same way with your own life? If you local taxes get to high do you have the right to move to where they are lower, or should the Government tell you that you have to stay exactly where you are!

My belief is that I will not want rules for others that I am not wanting to put upon myself.

Maybe if more businesses move the government will wise up and spend less and tax less.


It is funny that you see me as the kid that wants to put things on credit card, I have no credit cards I believe in cash and limited debt. I believe in fiscal responsibility something I wish Washington would start believing in.

I don't have a problem with businesses getting out of the U.S.. I have a problem with them getting out of the U.S. and then keeping their sales here in the U.S.

No, I don't support the government being as bad as it has been. I do support making everyone that is in the U.S. sharing the pain collectively instead of going off shore. I think when we have business in the U.S. run by people who are based off shore, they don't have the same incentives as the people who are left. The U.S. will be nothing more than another goose to be squeezed to death without the squeezers having to deal with the body of a dead spent goose (to use the goose that laid the golden egg analogy). The best chance at changing things will be to keep the money that was made in the U.S. here in the U.S. instead of being exported. We made the Japanese build auto plants here in the U.S., they had a better relationship with labor, and they did better than our domestic companies. They also kept those jobs here in the U.S. instead of exporting them to Japan.



Tex

So do you support using oil and gas that is produced by American companies that moved people and operations to different countries to do business. Your choice as a consumer would be not to support Microsoft if they move operations Tax them out of profitability and they will move and you will get to make that choice. They are not asking for concessions, just not to pay more.
 

Mike

Well-known member
They are not asking for concessions, just not to pay more.

That seems to be TSR's fallacy. Microsoft is not asking for a TAX CUT.

They just don't want an ADDED TAX to their balance sheet.

They are paying around 40% of their U.S. profits in taxes now and will be much more profitable AND competitive by moving.
 

TSR

Well-known member
Mike said:
They are not asking for concessions, just not to pay more.

That seems to be TSR's fallacy. Microsoft is not asking for a TAX CUT.

They just don't want an ADDED TAX to their balance sheet.

They are paying around 40% of their U.S. profits in taxes now and will be much more profitable AND competitive by moving.

Mike I really don't think there's much difference. If Congress is proposing to raise your taxes and you say no or you are moving, then if Congress does your bidding, then in essence you received a tax cut. And Congress imo no longer has the ability to levy taxes, at least on powerful corporations, its lost its constitutional authority brought about by the threats of a Corporation. I guess there are 2 ways to look at it.
No doubt they will be much more profitable and competitive by moving AS long as they have unlimited access to the market that made them what they are today-the US.
 

Mike

Well-known member
OK. I see now. :roll:

By NOT adding a tax to my bottom line is the same as giving me a tax cut. :lol: :lol:

You sound just as slippery and slimey as your Democratic cohorts. :lol: :lol:
 

TSR

Well-known member
Mike said:
OK. I see now. :roll:

By NOT adding a tax to my bottom line is the same as giving me a tax cut. :lol: :lol:

You sound just as slippery and slimey as your Democratic cohorts. :lol: :lol:

My INDEPENDENT cohorts, if you please. :) :)
 

Mike

Well-known member
TSR said:
Mike said:
OK. I see now. :roll:

By NOT adding a tax to my bottom line is the same as giving me a tax cut. :lol: :lol:

You sound just as slippery and slimey as your Democratic cohorts. :lol: :lol:

My INDEPENDENT cohorts, if you please. :) :)

Oh sure! Every Democrat claims to be an "Independent" when his nuts are in a vice. :wink:
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
At some point enough is enough! At some point a company has to look out for its investors. When a government that already taxes corporations more than most any other nation goes for more, then enough is enough!

You libs act as if Microsoft has been paying a low tax and crying because of having to pay more. The fact is they been paying way to much as it is, the Government is about to put that straw on the camels back that breaks it! Personally I wonder if that is what Obama does not want!

Microsoft has been a great company for the economics here in the U.S. Even their profits have led to a lot of good around the world! If we keep taxing profitable companies in the end we will end up with the government owning all of them, like the car companies!

With unemployment pushing 10% I do not understand why Obama would want to push jobs away, seems he would want to do things to attract jobs back? Democrats are so stuck on Taxing they have no other solutions to problems! :mad:
 

TSR

Well-known member
Mike said:
TSR said:
Mike said:
OK. I see now. :roll:

By NOT adding a tax to my bottom line is the same as giving me a tax cut. :lol: :lol:

You sound just as slippery and slimey as your Democratic cohorts. :lol: :lol:

My INDEPENDENT cohorts, if you please. :) :)

Oh sure! Every Democrat claims to be an "Independent" when his nuts are in a vice. :wink:

I knew that humor of yours would show up again sooner or later! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
 

Tex

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
At some point enough is enough! At some point a company has to look out for its investors. When a government that already taxes corporations more than most any other nation goes for more, then enough is enough!

You libs act as if Microsoft has been paying a low tax and crying because of having to pay more. The fact is they been paying way to much as it is, the Government is about to put that straw on the camels back that breaks it! Personally I wonder if that is what Obama does not want!

Microsoft has been a great company for the economics here in the U.S. Even their profits have led to a lot of good around the world! If we keep taxing profitable companies in the end we will end up with the government owning all of them, like the car companies!

With unemployment pushing 10% I do not understand why Obama would want to push jobs away, seems he would want to do things to attract jobs back? Democrats are so stuck on Taxing they have no other solutions to problems! :mad:

aplus, we should take all the taxes off of Microsoft, because as you say they have been a good business, and put them on you.

I like that idea. Would you want to pay anyone else's taxes while we are at it? We could exempt every rich person from paying their taxes if you will just pay the taxes for them. Then you could go worship at their alter once again.

Tex
 

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