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Military Pay

Soapweed

Well-known member
Military Pay
This is an Airman's response to Cindy Williams' editorial piece in the Washington Post about MILITARY PAY, it should be printed in all newspapers across America . Ms. Cindy William wrote a piece for the Washington Times denouncing the pay raise(s) coming service members' way this year citing that she stated a 13% wage increase was more than they deserve. A young airman from Hill AFB responds to her article below. He ought to get a bonus for this.

"Ms Williams:

I just had the pleasure of reading your column, "Our GI's earn enough" and I am a bit confused. Frankly, I'm wondering where this vaunted overpayment is going, because as far as I can tell, it disappears every month between DFAS (The Defense Finance and Accounting Service) and my bank account. Checking my latest earnings statement I see that I make $1,117.80 before taxes per month. After taxes, I take home $874.20. When I run that through the calculator, I come up with an annual salary of $13,413.60 before taxes, and $10,490.40 after.

I work in the Air Force Network Control Center where I am part of the team responsible for a 5,000 host computer network. I am involved with infrastructure segments, specifically with Cisco Systems equipment. A quick check under jobs for "Network Technicians" in the Washington , D.C. area reveals a position in my career field, requiring three years experience in my job. Amazingly, this job does NOT pay $13,413.60 a year. No, this job is being offered at $70,000 to $80,000 per annum............ I'm sure you can draw the obvious conclusions.

Given the tenor of your column, I would assume that you NEVER had the pleasure of serving your country in her armed forces.

Before you take it upon yourself to once more castigate congressional and DOD leadership for attempting to get the families in the military's lowest pay brackets off of WIC and food stamps, I suggest that you join a group of deploying soldiers headed for AFGHANISTAN ; I leave the choice of service branch up to you. Whatever choice you make though, opt for the SIX month rotation: it will guarantee you the longest possible time away from your family and friends, thus giving you full "deployment experience."

As your group prepares to board the plane, make sure to note the spouses and children who are saying good-bye to their loved ones. Also take care to note that several families are still unsure of how they'll be able to make ends meet while the primary breadwinner is gone. Obviously they've been squandering the "vast" piles of cash the government has been giving them.

Try to deploy over a major holiday; Christmas and Thanksgiving are perennial favorites.. And when you're actually over there, sitting in a foxhole, shivering against the cold desert night, and the flight sergeant tells you that there aren't enough people on shift to relieve you for chow, remember this: trade whatever MRE's (meal-ready-to-eat) you manage to get for the tuna noodle casserole or cheese tortellini, and add Tabasco to everything. This gives some flavor.

Talk to your loved ones as often as you are permitted; it won't be nearly long enough or often enough, but take what you can get and be thankful for it. You may have picked up on the fact that I disagree with most of the points you present in your open piece.

But, tomorrow from KABUL , I will defend to the death your right to say it.

You see, I am an American fighting man, a guarantor of your First Amendment right and every other right you cherish...On a daily basis, my brother and sister soldiers worldwide ensure that you and people like you can thumb your collective noses at us, all on a salary that is nothing short of pitiful and under conditions that would make most people cringe. We hemorrhage our best and brightest into the private sector because we can't offer the stability and pay of civilian companies.

And you, Ms.. Williams, have the gall to say that we make more than we deserve?


A1C Michael Bragg, Hill AFB AFNCC
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
Excellent piece!

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Seems to me that in most of life, you have to lose something to really
appreciate it. It is my hope that we don't lose our American way of life,
because we are really gonna miss it when it's gone. :cry:
 

Steve

Well-known member
consider this..

13,413.60

at that pay.. he earns about 257.94 a week or $6.44 an hour.. if he only works a 40 hour week..

which I never did when I served...

add in a duty night or two a week.. for most of my career it was any where from a three to five rotation.. and his hourly pay drops..

he gets no overtime.. just 6.44 cents an hour for the first forty..

the rest are on him...

Minimum wage levels

Federal $7.25

District of Columbia $8.25

is that enough .. no... not even by liberal standards..


the least we can do is try to pay them enough and let them know they EARNED our respect and trust as well..




the Cindy Williams is not the actress
Cindy Williams

Cindy Williams is a Principal Research Scientist of the Security Studies Program at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Her work includes an examination of the processes by which the U.S. government plans for and allocates resources among the activities and programs related to national security and international affairs and an examination of the transition to all-volunteer forces in the militaries of European countries.

Previously, Dr. Williams was an Assistant Director of the Congressional Budget Office, where she led the National Security Division in studies of budgetary and policy choices related to defense and international security.

just another overpaid bureaucrat, an academic elite who never really worked a day in her life..

http://web.mit.edu/ssp/people/williams/faculty_williams.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33607-2000Jan11.html
 

Tom in TN

Well-known member
Okay, I'm going out onto a limb here that you guys could probably cut off pretty easily, but here goes anyway.

An Airman First Class is an E-3. Similar to a Seaman in the Navy or a PFC in the Marines. You know that is not a high-level position. I was in the Navy a LONG time ago, but at that time, I made E-3 after having been in the Navy for a total of less than 9 months.

In addition to that $13,000+ salary, this airman receives food and housing at no additional cost to him. He pays no utility bills. Has 30 days of paid vacation each year. Receives free educational training in military schools. Receives unlimited, free medical and dental care. Has at least a minimal free life insurance policy. Has free use of all of the recreational facilities on the base where he is stationed. Shops at a deeply discounted post exchange, etc. etc.

I was an E-5 when I left the Navy. I always wanted more pay, but in reality, it wasn't such a bad gig afterall.

At least, that's the way I see it.

Tom in TN
 

Traveler

Well-known member
Always double check emails, no matter how good they sound. This was nearly 13 years ago. Don't mean to be disrespectful, just saying.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33607-2000Jan11.html
 

Steve

Well-known member
Tom in TN said:
Okay, I'm going out onto a limb here that you guys could probably cut off pretty easily, but here goes anyway.

An Airman First Class is an E-3. Similar to a Seaman in the Navy or a PFC in the Marines. You know that is not a high-level position. I was in the Navy a LONG time ago, but at that time, I made E-3 after having been in the Navy for a total of less than 9 months.

In addition to that $13,000+ salary, this airman receives food and housing at no additional cost to him. He pays no utility bills. Has 30 days of paid vacation each year. Receives free educational training in military schools. Receives unlimited, free medical and dental care. Has at least a minimal free life insurance policy. Has free use of all of the recreational facilities on the base where he is stationed. Shops at a deeply discounted post exchange, etc. etc.

I was an E-5 when I left the Navy. I always wanted more pay, but in reality, it wasn't such a bad gig afterall.

At least, that's the way I see it.

Tom in TN

so you would go sit in KABUL for less then minimum wage.. ?
 

Larrry

Well-known member
While I can see your point about the pay for military.
I think I will stick with the military is underpaid. If you look at their salary a person could make that much working at mickey D's and I darn sure wouldn't want a lot of those MD employees covering my back, in a foxhole with me, maning the radar for me, etc.
 

Tom in TN

Well-known member
Steve,

I enlisted in the Navy during the Vietnam war. I was never deployed to within a thousand miles of where anyone was shooting at anyone, but that was the Navy's choice. I enlisted because I thought that America was worth defending and that I was willing to be a part of that defense.

My pay as an E-1 Seaman Recruit was $69.00 per month. Upon completion of bootcamp I was promoted to E-2 at $78.00 per month. Six months later I was promoted to E-3 at $98.00 per month. But none of that made any difference. I was in the Navy because I chose to be.

Where I was deployed was not my choice. My service, however, was my choice. Just like every person serving in the military today, I volunteered to do what the military asked me to do. Money was not, and in my opinion, should not be a consideration if a person decides to volunteer for military service.

But then, I'm an old man.

Tom in TN
 

Broke Cowboy

Well-known member
It is quite old and it was written by Kipling - I have heard various renditions of it from soldiers all over the world - because many of them can clearly relate to it.

First published, under the title "The Queen's Uniform", in W.E. Henley’s weekly Scots Observer (later to become the National Observer) on 1 March 1890 and in the St. James's Gazette on the same day.

Tommy Atkins is what Brit soldiers used to be callled - over time it was shortened to "Tommy" - which became the new title for this poem

Despite my simple mind and my inabaility to read it easily due to its old Engilsh - it is easy to understand once you get the hang of it.

Best to all

BC
_______________________________________________

Tommy

I went into a public-’ouse to get a pint o’ beer,
The publican ‘e up an’ sez, “We serve no red-coats here.”
The girls be’ind the bar they laughed an’ giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an’ to myself sez I:
O it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, go away”;
But it’s “Thank you, Mister Atkins”, when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it’s “Thank you, Mister Atkins”, when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but ‘adn’t none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-’alls,
But when it comes to fightin’, Lord! they’ll shove me in the stalls!
For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, wait outside”;
But it’s “Special train for Atkins” when the trooper’s on the tide,
The troopship’s on the tide, my boys, the troopship’s on the tide,
O it’s “Special train for Atkins” when the trooper’s on the tide.

Yes, makin’ mock o’ uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an’ they’re starvation cheap;
An’ hustlin’ drunken soldiers when they’re goin’ large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin’ in full kit.
Then it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, ‘ow’s yer soul?”
But it’s “Thin red line of ‘eroes” when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it’s “Thin red line of ‘eroes” when the drums begin to roll.

We aren’t no thin red ‘eroes, nor we aren’t no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An’ if sometimes our conduck isn’t all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don’t grow into plaster saints;
While it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, fall be’ind”,
But it’s “Please to walk in front, sir”, when there’s trouble in the wind,
There’s trouble in the wind, my boys, there’s trouble in the wind,
O it’s “Please to walk in front, sir”, when there’s trouble in the wind.

You talk o’ better food for us, an’ schools, an’ fires, an’ all:
We’ll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don’t mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow’s Uniform is not the soldier-man’s disgrace.
For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Chuck him out, the brute!”
But it’s “Saviour of ‘is country” when the guns begin to shoot;

An’ it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ anything you please;
An’ Tommy ain’t a bloomin’ fool — you bet that Tommy sees!
 

Steve

Well-known member
Tom in TN said:
Steve,

I enlisted in the Navy during the Vietnam war. I was never deployed to within a thousand miles of where anyone was shooting at anyone, but that was the Navy's choice. I enlisted because I thought that America was worth defending and that I was willing to be a part of that defense.

My pay as an E-1 Seaman Recruit was $69.00 per month. Upon completion of bootcamp I was promoted to E-2 at $78.00 per month. Six months later I was promoted to E-3 at $98.00 per month. But none of that made any difference. I was in the Navy because I chose to be.

Where I was deployed was not my choice. My service, however, was my choice. Just like every person serving in the military today, I volunteered to do what the military asked me to do. Money was not, and in my opinion, should not be a consideration if a person decides to volunteer for military service.

But then, I'm an old man.

Tom in TN

I served , and am now retired ... pay was never the reason, either.. but for a person sitting in an ivy league university to say the military doesn't deserve a fair and decent pay is disgusting.

every time over the last 30 years I have figured out the pay for an E-4 and below it has always been well below minimum wage.

and most E-5's with a wife and child or two are eligible for food stamps...

I hardly ever complained about the pay.. .never had a new car, or much else, around Christmas I sure wanted a bit more.. just to get a bit nicer gift for my wife.. as she put up with taking care of everything with out me a bit to often..

but it was never just for the pay..
 

TSR

Well-known member
Either this soldier is wrong on his pay or the scale posted on Wikipedia is wrong. He actually does somewhat better at least according to Wikipedia. And I gotta agree with Tom somewhat -- insurance,housing,food, clothing etc. have to be considered along with the fact that the military is voluntary. This is in no way meant to take anything from the great job our military does,a military career isn't for everyone.
 

Larrry

Well-known member
I find it hard to iclude housing in figuring their benefits due to the fact that if they are married with a family then they must have housing for their family.
 

Steve

Well-known member
Either this soldier is wrong on his pay or the scale posted on Wikipedia is wrong.

the story has been circulating around for awhile..

today an E-3 would make around $1980 a month..

he would not get housing or subsistence pay (meals).. in Kabul..
instead he may get warm meals and a bunk.. or MRE's and a sandy spot to lay his head.. I wouldn't call that a benefit..

but would get combat pay

the $230 clothing allowance wouldn't even come close to covering a well maintained uniform.. the rest would come out of the airman's pocket..

and the $150 haz duty pay doesn't seem like it would be alot .. considering he is basically on duty 24/7 for the whole time overseas..

but at least today he is making a bit more then min wage.. on a forty hour week.. but it still is well below what he is worth..
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
I think he/she is entitled to more!!
In fact, our military should be taken care of before anyone or anything
else!

I'm glad BC posted on this thread. Thanks for the poem, BC. I wish
things weren't that way.
 
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