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Minerals... Loose vs. Block

Big Muddy rancher said:
It wasn't even a 100 years ago weaning weights were alot less and hfrs didn't get bred until their 2old year. Nobody does that except a few Hereford people anymore. :wink:
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I had three heifers breed at nine months last year...I thought they should've known better. :wink: :wink:
 
RobertMac said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
It wasn't even a 100 years ago weaning weights were alot less and hfrs didn't get bred until their 2old year. Nobody does that except a few Hereford people anymore. :wink:
Click to expand...
I had three heifers breed at nine months last year...I thought they should've known better. :wink: :wink:
Click to expand...
They are teenagers RM, they know everything. :wink:
 
Northern Rancher said:
From time to time everybody skimps on things-if it just involves a bit of lost production is one thing but if you cheap yourself into a wreck it's not much fun.
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I started taking away crutches in 1998 with dewormer/insecticides...I'm still waiting on my wreck. I guess I did this because I could...I love the idea of raising cattle, not just producing a calf.
 
per said:
RobertMac said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
It wasn't even a 100 years ago weaning weights were alot less and hfrs didn't get bred until their 2old year. Nobody does that except a few Hereford people anymore. :wink:
Click to expand...
I had three heifers breed at nine months last year...I thought they should've known better. :wink: :wink:
Click to expand...
They are teenagers RM, they know everything. :wink:
Click to expand...
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I should know that...I have a teenager! :shock: :oops:
 
RobertMac said:
Northern Rancher said:
From time to time everybody skimps on things-if it just involves a bit of lost production is one thing but if you cheap yourself into a wreck it's not much fun.
Click to expand...
I started taking away crutches in 1998 with dewormer/insecticides...I'm still waiting on my wreck. I guess I did this because I could...I love the idea of raising cattle, not just producing a calf.
Click to expand...
I think there is a difference between taking away crutches and kicking the crutch out from under the arm.
 
per said:
RobertMac said:
Northern Rancher said:
From time to time everybody skimps on things-if it just involves a bit of lost production is one thing but if you cheap yourself into a wreck it's not much fun.
Click to expand...
I started taking away crutches in 1998 with dewormer/insecticides...I'm still waiting on my wreck. I guess I did this because I could...I love the idea of raising cattle, not just producing a calf.
Click to expand...
I think there is a difference between taking away crutches and kicking the crutch out from under the arm.
Click to expand...
The difference is having a broke leg and not knowing it because of using crutches.
 
Silver said:
TexasBred said:
MN Farm Girl said:
I am trying to give them reasons as to why switching to loose form pays. And my reasons were not enough. So I am looking for more reasons from more people to try and let them know of the benefits. Now a block has the same amount of mineral as loose???? Just wondering of the nutritional benefits.
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This block you refer to as a "mineral block".....does it have a guaranteed analysis on it with the guaranteed levels of the various minerals and vitamins listed OR is it simply a salt block with only a "trace" of minerals in it?? If it is nothing but a TM Salt block you would be as well off to just throw out some white salt blocks and forget it. Cows will wear out a good tongue trying to meet her needs with a block whereas with loose mineral, a few flicks of the tongue and she has all she needs.
Click to expand...

That doesn't explain the rate of disappearance of block salt around here. When cows are really salt hungry they scrape it off with their teeth. Doesn't take a cow long to get what they want. I suppose if pasture conditions were so bad they couldn't take a five minute break from searching for forage to lick a block then loose would be required :D
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Sounds like you're feeding salt rather than mineral in block form.
 
Robertmac we have a little 7 months up here called winter that poses some unique challenges-I've skipped delousing a few times-the 5 percent that need it-really need it-i'm not going to watch a cow die to prove a point. You treat the weak and cull ASAP.
 
Northern Rancher said:
Robertmac we have a little 7 months up here called winter that poses some unique challenges-I've skipped delousing a few times-the 5 percent that need it-really need it-i'm not going to watch a cow die to prove a point. You treat the weak and cull ASAP.
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Absolutely!
 
BMR I have a lot or respect for what you have written on here about the cattle business and ranching, but that was a cheap shot, and I don't think you really think that way. Just could not let go unanswered. Have a good evening. RD :D
 
Was in my local Feedrite dealer today and picked up a few bags of minerals just to tide us over. Picked up a flyer off their counter which made interesting reading. I guess with the cattle economy the way it is up here they are trying to find a cheaper way to supply minerals to cows. They are advocating a targeted program where you put them on a cheaper program for 260 days of the year then use different minerals the other periods. The figures were interesting. The cheapo they are plugging is a salted mineral (14% salt) which has about half the mineral/vitamin levels of the 16:16 I'm using at the moment. They claim it costs 6c/day to feed this cheapo but you boost this with a dearer one at calving and breeding. These dearer ones are 15-18c/day :shock: and you still need to add salt.
I worked out what our cows used since June on 16:16 plus coarse salt mixed 50:50. Consumption of the mineral component was only 32g per cow/day where recommended level was 56g. My cost was 5.6c/day for mineral and .6c/day for salt. Feedrite reckon their programs cost $30-$38 a year per cow. Mine has been around $10/cow over the last year. We are almost always in the 92-94% pregnant range and don't see weak or sickly calves at calving or any other time. Our cattle are shiny and slick and given that I trust their judgement on what they need to consume better than a scientist in a lab. Each to their own but I'm quite happy to put that extra $20+/cow in my pocket versus that of just another input salesman.
 
GF - you need a new supplier. Our regular custom blended mineral (all but about 75 days of the year) will run us around $600 tonne or right around 7 cents per day. Our breeding mineral runs about $900 or so and works out to about 11 cents a day for those 75 days.
 
There are so many ways to spend money on a cow herd. Most inputs claim a return on investment and I'm sure that most claims are true. But if you add up the the 30 pounds from the implant, the 25 pounds from the fly control, the 30 pounds from the mineral, the 30 pounds from the vaccination program, the 25 pounds from the wormer, the 20 pounds from the grazing plan, the 20 pounds from the better water supply, pretty soon we are all weaning 850 pound calves. Now we all know that doesn't happen in the real world, but in these times of cutting back on inputs where do we start. Where is the best money spent?

I would be interested to see how everyone would rank all those categories if a fella was intent on cutting back on some of his expenses. Where would mineral rank with most people. Personally I think a good mineral program and a good vaccination program go hand in hand. If you start skimping on those two that's about the time the train can go off the tracks. But then again maybe I don't know anything.
 
TexasBred said:
Silver said:
TexasBred said:
This block you refer to as a "mineral block".....does it have a guaranteed analysis on it with the guaranteed levels of the various minerals and vitamins listed OR is it simply a salt block with only a "trace" of minerals in it?? If it is nothing but a TM Salt block you would be as well off to just throw out some white salt blocks and forget it. Cows will wear out a good tongue trying to meet her needs with a block whereas with loose mineral, a few flicks of the tongue and she has all she needs.
Click to expand...

That doesn't explain the rate of disappearance of block salt around here. When cows are really salt hungry they scrape it off with their teeth. Doesn't take a cow long to get what they want. I suppose if pasture conditions were so bad they couldn't take a five minute break from searching for forage to lick a block then loose would be required :D
Click to expand...

Sounds like you're feeding salt rather than mineral in block form.
Click to expand...

Trace mineral salt blocks actually. I assumed most would be able to extrapolate the example to the block of their choice.
 
That was a wise post, Big Swede. Even the vaccine companies will
tell you the vaccine works best when the immune system is enhanced
by supplementing mineral.

And grassfarmer, If it isn't broke, don't fix it.
Seriously. It looks like you are getting along fine.
I'd be the last person to try to change your operation.
For those with sick calves, lower conception rates (oh, and for
the cattle that are bred, a high % should calve in the first
heat cycle when things are right) and for those wanting
more weaning weight, I would suggest supplementing mineral.
And if you are feeding mineral and still have some of these
problems, try a different mineral because yours isn't working. :shock:

It is interesting to see how the heifers perform and keep condition
when they have been on a good mineral program since conception.
There is a difference. They just are so healthy and vigorous throughout
their life.

One thing that adding mineral does, it makes a better quality colostrum
in the cow. That's why the calves are so healthy and vigorous; that good quality colostrum they got right off the bat.

And RSL, I'd agree with you, but I would put:

2. Nutrition (mineral is just part of a whole, it puts the system in balance. It cannot make up for lack of feed, it is not magic, so I feel Nutrition is a better word here.
3. Vaccines.

If you had to do with one without the other, you are better off
with good nutrition as vaccine. JMHO.

This has been a great discussion, I do believe.
 
I almost agree with you RSL. My list looks like this:

1: Soil/Pasture improvement
2: Genetics
3: Nutrition

We don't use dewormer or vaccines and have had good luck. The differences we've seen that have disappointed is when we switched mineral programs.

GF - one question. You said your mineral cost 5.6c/day and salt was 6c/day. At 11.6c/day that's $42.34/cow, not $10/cow. Did I misunderstand your numbers? I'm just curious because some of the mineral/tub products I'm pricing out right now are anywhere from 10-18 cents/day, and my pocket book is getting a nervous twitch to it. :lol:
 
How about looking at it from things lowering cost of production instead of increasing production. If a X dollar vaccination program cuts your treatment costs by so much it just might be worth it. We don't spend $10 on antibiotics in a year but in '06 we had to mass medicate-we got in an unholy wreck.
 

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