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Mining value out of mineral supplements-Dr. Jeff Hall

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Faster horses

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This article was on the front page of the May 2, 2015 Tri-State Livestock News.
It is the best and most comprehensive article I have ever read on supplementing mineral.
It mentions Montana specifically because Dr. Jeff Hall DVM spoke on this at the
Montana Nutrition Conference, April 29, 2015 Bozeman, Mt.
Wyoming, ND and SD are other other states that are deficient in copper in
the forage. Dr. Hall indicates that not all mineral is created equal and the return on the dollar
that can be realized with the proper mineral supplementation plus the benefits of supplementing
year round. It was refreshing for a veterinarian to be so well-versed on nutrition,
as that is not generally the case.Very interesting article, IMO.



http://www.tsln.com/news/16130894-113/mining-value-out-of-mineralsupplements
 

mrj

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Must be like medical doc's getting no training in nutrition.......and so many of them tell us not to eat beef, apparently based on listening to people like 'Dr.' Oz and others who incorrectly attribute health problems to the foods that really are best for health.

We read that article, too, and intend to do more study on it. Thanks for posting it here, FH. And what do you think of the blood tests to determine mineral levels in cattle? How fast does that change, and how much does green grass influence it? And that is just a couple of questions I have, add in cost for test? and cost for injectable minerals?, and there are more.....how long does the injected stuff last? or how often is it needed? Does quality of minerals differ between injected and ingested? And I realize there can be great differences between various minerals to feed, so lots to learn on this subject. And I only skimmed the article intending to get back to it, but more to the point will pass it on to the younger generations to help them make decisions.

Thanks again for sharing the site for more to see, as that is the first time I've seen the injected minerals mentioned.

mrj
 

loomixguy

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Good article. Chelated, or at least sequestered, mineral is the only way to go. The nice thing about LOOMIX is there is no "boss cow" syndrome at the trough. Cattle will hit the trough several times a day, take what they want, and move on. They don't stand there hogging it or preventing the more timid cattle from getting their share.

I've heard about the injectable, like Multi-Min, but I've not studied up on it. My gut reaction is not positive. More cost, labor, and stress is my uneducated guess.

It is very true, though, that vaccinations are far more effective if the cattle are on good mineral and aren't depleted.
 

Faster horses

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mrj said:
Must be like medical doc's getting no training in nutrition.......and so many of them tell us not to eat beef, apparently based on listening to people like 'Dr.' Oz and others who incorrectly attribute health problems to the foods that really are best for health.

We read that article, too, and intend to do more study on it. Thanks for posting it here, FH. And what do you think of the blood tests to determine mineral levels in cattle? How fast does that change, and how much does green grass influence it? And that is just a couple of questions I have, add in cost for test? and cost for injectable minerals?, and there are more.....how long does the injected stuff last? or how often is it needed? Does quality of minerals differ between injected and ingested? And I realize there can be great differences between various minerals to feed, so lots to learn on this subject. And I only skimmed the article intending to get back to it, but more to the point will pass it on to the younger generations to help them make decisions.

Thanks again for sharing the site for more to see, as that is the first time I've seen the injected minerals mentioned.

mrj


The injected mineral was discussed by a different vet, I believe. I am like loomixguy and I don't have a good feeling about it. There really isn't much in the vaccine and I don't feel it will stay in the animal very long. Granted, if your cattle are not on a good mineral program, something is better than nothing. As far as it being a magic bullet, it is not. Remember, the veterinarian has something to sell. Dr. Hall isn't selling anything.

As for chelated mineral, I generally don't disagree with loomixguy, but I do with his statement that chelated mineral is the only way to go. That might be true of other mineral, I have no idea about them as far as chelates go, I only know about Vigortone. The only chelated mineral I have ever sold was to our local veterinarian who did not have his cows on a year round mineral program and he was doing embryo transplants. We have it available, but my company does so much research into mineral, ingredients, particle size, etc. that our regular mineral does a fine job when the cattle are on the year-round program. In fact, we have had people that tried chelated mineral available locally and have come back to our regular mineral. There is a lot more that goes into a mineral formula than 30% of it being chelated doing a much better job. Look at the big picture. So much inferior mineral contains grain. Read the ingredients. Are you getting a true mineral or are you getting a mix? I read a label the other day that had a lot of grain in it....and they even said on the tag "contains palatable carrier ingredients to encourage consistent consumption." :shock: Oh yeah, it is chelated....and full of grain...processed grain by-products. That is NOT a good ingredient to have in a quality mineral. This particular mineral also has no yeast culture. All mineral is not created equal.

As to your other questions, I hope I can answer them.
Liver biopsies are best, blood can change rapidly. Grass might have an effect but not likely, the trace minerals in grass usually doesn’t go up or down with stage of growth. Protein, energy, moisture phos, cal, mag and potassium will follow the grass curve (as the grass turns brown, it loses a lot of nutrients.) Most injectable or boluses are short term, that is why we like to get an average of 3-4oz/hd/day of Vigortone in the cow. Quality of mineral does matter as far as absorption into the system. Please remember the cow needs a balance of trace minerals, not just Cu or Zn.

Hope that helps.
 

TexasBred

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The injected mineral was discussed by a different vet, I believe. I am like loomixguy and I don't have a good feeling about it. There really isn't much in the vaccine and I don't feel it will stay in the animal very long. Granted, if your cattle are not on a good mineral program, something is better than nothing. As far as it being a magic bullet, it is not. Remember, the veterinarian has something to sell. Dr. Hall isn't selling anything.

As for chelated mineral, I generally don't disagree with loomixguy, but I do with his statement that chelated mineral is the only way to go. That might be true of other mineral, I have no idea about them as far as chelates go, I only know about Vigortone. The only chelated mineral I have ever sold was to our local veterinarian who did not have his cows on a year round mineral program and he was doing embryo transplants. We have it available, but my company does so much research into mineral, ingredients, particle size, etc. that our regular mineral does a fine job when the cattle are on the year-round program. In fact, we have had people that tried chelated mineral available locally and have come back to our regular mineral. There is a lot more that goes into a mineral formula than 30% of it being chelated doing a much better job. Look at the big picture. So much inferior mineral contains grain. Read the ingredients. Are you getting a true mineral or are you getting a mix? I read a label the other day that had a lot of grain in it....and they even said on the tag "contains palatable carrier ingredients to encourage consistent consumption." :shock: Oh yeah, it is chelated....and full of grain...processed grain by-products. That is NOT a good ingredient to have in a quality mineral. This particular mineral also has no yeast culture. All mineral is not created equal.

As to your other questions, I hope I can answer them.
Liver biopsies are best, blood can change rapidly. Grass might have an effect but not likely, the trace minerals in grass usually doesn’t go up or down with stage of growth. Protein, energy, moisture phos, cal, mag and potassium will follow the grass curve (as the grass turns brown, it loses a lot of nutrients.) Most injectable or boluses are short term, that is why we like to get an average of 3-4oz/hd/day of Vigortone in the cow. Quality of mineral does matter as far as absorption into the system. Please remember the cow needs a balance of trace minerals, not just Cu or Zn.

Hope that helps.
FH may I ask what Vigortone uses in their mineral to increase palatability? DDG isn't it? There absolutely has to be something in dry mineral to make it taste better or cattle simply would not eat it. I understand your aversion to chelates as Vigortone uses very few if any in their minerals but rather sticks with the old oxides and sulfates. How can an oxide be good for a cow when it is only has 10% bio-availability? I suppose you can formulate to increase inclusion rates extremely high and hope for better results (Vigortone also does this). I've has great results with Purina All Season AV-4 which has 100% of the zinc, manganese, copper and cobalt in amino acids along with selenium yeast as the source of se. Good consumption and excellent results and doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg. Think I gave $29.75 per bag for the last I purchased...(BTW in general I despise Purina products). lol
 

Faster horses

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Holy cow! That was 6 years ago! I was pretty smart back then!!🤣 Not so much now...
Zinc oxide and Zinc sulfate are similar. Copper oxide is not very available. In our Western Range mineral
we have 2 sources of Copper. Copper chloride and copper sulfate. It has stood the test of time and is
a clone to our gold standard mineral, which was called 32S Plus.
Don't you wonder if Purina puts something on their mineral to stand up to moisture, how available is it to the
cow? I would be afraid it wouldn't be very available. I mean, moisture is moisture.
As for palatability there are many things that make it palatable; different organic matter. Vigortone mineral smells
really good, so the cattle are attracted to it. We sure don't have any problem with cattle eating it. The whole
thing about mineral is consumption. Doesn't matter what is in it if they don't consume it.

If you are satisfied with what you are doing, I don't know why there is any reason to discuss this.
 

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