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Miss Tam,let me explain it this way.

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HAY MAKER

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Lets say "OTM's could cross the border freely,because the AMI/USDA/NCBA had the political clout to knock down our fire walls.
I need cattle,and believe that the USDA is on top of the BSE problem and the Canadian cow that tested positive for BSE recently was purchased by me.
Can you see the economic damage that will cause.


Now lets say AMI/USDA/NCBA try and fail to import OTMs because R-CALF is protecting the American cattle man,you keep your latest case of BSE,and the only economic damage I recieve is minimal,due to R CALF & safety nets................good luck

PS yes its about money,always has been on both sides of the 49th.
No "OTMs" until BSE is a nonissue !!!
 

Tam

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HAY MAKER said:
Lets say "OTM's could cross the border freely,because the AMI/USDA/NCBA had the political clout to knock down our fire walls.
I need cattle,and believe that the USDA is on top of the BSE problem and the Canadian cow that tested positive for BSE recently was purchased by me.
Can you see the economic damage that will cause.


Now lets say AMI/USDA/NCBA try and fail to import OTMs because R-CALF is protecting the American cattle man,you keep your latest case of BSE,and the only economic damage I recieve is minimal,due to R CALF & safety nets................good luck

PS yes its about money,always has been on both sides of the 49th.
No "OTMs" until BSE is a nonissue !!!
I thought LEO said it was a non issue because of the firewalls you have had in place for so many years was he lieing Haymaker?
Tell us how will your firewalls that now only protect you from imported cattle by blocking their importation, going to protect the consumers if that cow the packer just bought and tested positve was a US COW? R-CALF's little safety net will do NOTHING ABOUT HE US BSE PROBLEM. Cleaning up the US system and making sure that ALL of the industry complys to the rules including the PRODUCERS will protect the consumer from ALL BSE IMPORTED OR DOMESTIC.

By the way does that go for US OTM cattle too?
 

HAY MAKER

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Tam said:
HAY MAKER said:
Lets say "OTM's could cross the border freely,because the AMI/USDA/NCBA had the political clout to knock down our fire walls.
I need cattle,and believe that the USDA is on top of the BSE problem and the Canadian cow that tested positive for BSE recently was purchased by me.
Can you see the economic damage that will cause.


Now lets say AMI/USDA/NCBA try and fail to import OTMs because R-CALF is protecting the American cattle man,you keep your latest case of BSE,and the only economic damage I recieve is minimal,due to R CALF & safety nets................good luck

PS yes its about money,always has been on both sides of the 49th.
No "OTMs" until BSE is a nonissue !!!
I thought LEO said it was a non issue because of the firewalls you have had in place for so many years was he lieing Haymaker?
Tell us how will your firewalls that now only protect you from imported cattle by blocking their importation, going to protect the consumers if that cow the packer just bought and tested positve was a US COW? R-CALF's little safety net will do NOTHING ABOUT HE US BSE PROBLEM. Cleaning up the US system and making sure that ALL of the industry complys to the rules including the PRODUCERS will protect the consumer from ALL BSE IMPORTED OR DOMESTIC.

By the way does that go for US OTM cattle too?[/quote]

Yes unlike some folks,why would I want to cause my neighbors a economic hardship,and no Leo was not lieing,conditions change Miss Tam,you have to change with em :wink: ...............good luck
 

Tam

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HAY MAKER said:
Tam said:
HAY MAKER said:
Lets say "OTM's could cross the border freely,because the AMI/USDA/NCBA had the political clout to knock down our fire walls.
I need cattle,and believe that the USDA is on top of the BSE problem and the Canadian cow that tested positive for BSE recently was purchased by me.
Can you see the economic damage that will cause.


Now lets say AMI/USDA/NCBA try and fail to import OTMs because R-CALF is protecting the American cattle man,you keep your latest case of BSE,and the only economic damage I recieve is minimal,due to R CALF & safety nets................good luck

PS yes its about money,always has been on both sides of the 49th.
No "OTMs" until BSE is a nonissue !!!
I thought LEO said it was a non issue because of the firewalls you have had in place for so many years was he lieing Haymaker?
Tell us how will your firewalls that now only protect you from imported cattle by blocking their importation, going to protect the consumers if that cow the packer just bought and tested positve was a US COW? R-CALF's little safety net will do NOTHING ABOUT HE US BSE PROBLEM. Cleaning up the US system and making sure that ALL of the industry complys to the rules including the PRODUCERS will protect the consumer from ALL BSE IMPORTED OR DOMESTIC.

By the way does that go for US OTM cattle too?[/quote]

Yes unlike some folks,why would I want to cause my neighbors a economic hardship,and no Leo was not lieing,conditions change Miss Tam,you have to change with em :wink: ...............good luck

What conditions changed since he said this
“we know if we are going to keep consumer confidence we are going to maintain some of the highest standards in the world to make sure that BSE is not introduced into this country. And we are going to make sure we have the best meat and bone meal ban in this country in place. So if for some reason we did find a case we can stand and look our consumers right in the eye and say, don’t worry we have had these firewalls in place for years, the only country prior to having a case of BSE to have these firewalls in place for so many years. And we did it to make sure if a case was ever found it was a non-issue. If we look them right in the eye and say that I will guarantee they will keep eating beef”.
Yes you found a case but he said "so if for some reason we did find a case" . Have the firewalls changed from those you implement in 1997? unfortunately NO. So what Firewalls was he talking about and what conditions are you talking about? If Leos firewall can protect from NATIVE US BSE why can't they protect consumers from imported?????
 

Manitoba_Rancher

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Haymaker,


I can tell that you also were referred to as being "special" when you went to school. You have mentioned in previous posts on Ranchers that the US tests lots of cattle for BSE. Now say if the border did open to OTM Canadian wouldnt the BSE testing in the US catch anything that did have BSE? They would be direct to packing plants. Remember you are in the State of Texas and you did have a BSE cow there. You make Canadian ranchers feel as though were the only ones that have had a BSE problem. Get your darn head out of that Texas sand! BSE is a north American problem lets all work to get it banished from north and south of the 49th. When our ambasssador Big Muddy gets down there he will straighten you up!!
 

Big Muddy rancher

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Haymaker says' Lets say "OTM's could cross the border freely,because the AMI/USDA/NCBA had the political clout to knock down our fire walls.
I need cattle,and believe that the USDA is on top of the BSE problem and the Canadian cow that tested positive for BSE recently was purchased by me.
Can you see the economic damage that will cause."


No problem Haymaker you would just bury another one with your trust backhoe.
:cowboy:
 

Manitoba_Rancher

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Haymaker said:
I need cattle,and believe that the USDA is on top of the BSE problem and the Canadian cow that tested positive for BSE recently was purchased by me.



BMR,

Guess ole Haymaker must have seen the light and wants some of our fine genetics up here!! :D
 

HAY MAKER

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Tam said:
HAY MAKER said:
Tam said:
I thought LEO said it was a non issue because of the firewalls you have had in place for so many years was he lieing Haymaker?
Tell us how will your firewalls that now only protect you from imported cattle by blocking their importation, going to protect the consumers if that cow the packer just bought and tested positve was a US COW? R-CALF's little safety net will do NOTHING ABOUT HE US BSE PROBLEM. Cleaning up the US system and making sure that ALL of the industry complys to the rules including the PRODUCERS will protect the consumer from ALL BSE IMPORTED OR DOMESTIC.

By the way does that go for US OTM cattle too?[/quote]

Yes unlike some folks,why would I want to cause my neighbors a economic hardship,and no Leo was not lieing,conditions change Miss Tam,you have to change with em :wink: ...............good luck

What conditions changed since he said this
“we know if we are going to keep consumer confidence we are going to maintain some of the highest standards in the world to make sure that BSE is not introduced into this country. And we are going to make sure we have the best meat and bone meal ban in this country in place. So if for some reason we did find a case we can stand and look our consumers right in the eye and say, don’t worry we have had these firewalls in place for years, the only country prior to having a case of BSE to have these firewalls in place for so many years. And we did it to make sure if a case was ever found it was a non-issue. If we look them right in the eye and say that I will guarantee they will keep eating beef”.
Yes you found a case but he said "so if for some reason we did find a case" . Have the firewalls changed from those you implement in 1997? unfortunately NO. So what Firewalls was he talking about and what conditions are you talking about?
If Leos firewall can protect from NATIVE US BSE why can't they protect consumers from imported?????
The biggest reason Miss Tam is "BSE"', every time the dust starts settleing and folks start thinking positive about "OTMs" and the border situation,you have another case of "BSE">.................good luck
 

Bill

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HAY MAKER said:
The biggest reason Miss Tam is "BSE"', every time the dust starts settleing and folks start thinking positive about "OTMs" and the border situation,you have another case of "BSE">.................good luck
[/quote]

Look at it this way Haymaker, at least Canada is finding, testing and IDing our cases. If the US started doing that the Japanese might reopen to you as well.

LEGAL/REGULATORY NEWS
USDA resisted retesting BSE case, OIG says

by Pete Hisey on 2/6/2006 for Meatingplace.com
In a report delivered late Thursday, the USDA's Office of the Inspector General charged that USDA resisted further testing of a suspected case of bovine spongiform encephalopathy in late 2004 and through the summer of 2005 because it worried that using a third test would undermine trust in its testing regimen.

An animal discovered dead in Texas tested inconclusive, which generally means positive, in two rapid tests, then negative in an immunohistochemistry (IHC) test conducted at USDA's laboratory in Ames, Iowa. Despite requests from scientists at Ames, USDA refused to conduct a confirmatory test using the Western blot method until the Inspector General ordered the test conducted in June 2005.

The report also found that record-keeping concerning removal of specified risk materials (SRMs) was inadequate in nine of 12 slaughterhouses visited, and that while the IG found no evidence that possibly infected beef had entered the food supply, it was impossible to assure that proper procedures had been followed.

"As a result, should serious animal disease be detected in the United States, USDA's ability to quickly determine and trace the source of infections to prevent the spread of disease could be impaired," the report concluded.

Dr. Barbara J. Masters, in charge of food safety for USDA, replied that the Western blot test was now part of the testing regimen for BSE and that the agency has taken steps to better enforce the SRM rules and to improve the paperwork, and had reached agreement with the OIG on most other issues.
 

Econ101

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Bill said:
HAY MAKER said:
The biggest reason Miss Tam is "BSE"', every time the dust starts settleing and folks start thinking positive about "OTMs" and the border situation,you have another case of "BSE">.................good luck

Look at it this way Haymaker, at least Canada is finding, testing and IDing our cases. If the US started doing that the Japanese might reopen to you as well.

LEGAL/REGULATORY NEWS
USDA resisted retesting BSE case, OIG says

by Pete Hisey on 2/6/2006 for Meatingplace.com
In a report delivered late Thursday, the USDA's Office of the Inspector General charged that USDA resisted further testing of a suspected case of bovine spongiform encephalopathy in late 2004 and through the summer of 2005 because it worried that using a third test would undermine trust in its testing regimen.

An animal discovered dead in Texas tested inconclusive, which generally means positive, in two rapid tests, then negative in an immunohistochemistry (IHC) test conducted at USDA's laboratory in Ames, Iowa. Despite requests from scientists at Ames, USDA refused to conduct a confirmatory test using the Western blot method until the Inspector General ordered the test conducted in June 2005.

The report also found that record-keeping concerning removal of specified risk materials (SRMs) was inadequate in nine of 12 slaughterhouses visited, and that while the IG found no evidence that possibly infected beef had entered the food supply, it was impossible to assure that proper procedures had been followed.

"As a result, should serious animal disease be detected in the United States, USDA's ability to quickly determine and trace the source of infections to prevent the spread of disease could be impaired," the report concluded.

Dr. Barbara J. Masters, in charge of food safety for USDA, replied that the Western blot test was now part of the testing regimen for BSE and that the agency has taken steps to better enforce the SRM rules and to improve the paperwork, and had reached agreement with the OIG on most other issues.
[/quote]

Bill, how will animal ID help in this?:

The report also found that record-keeping concerning removal of specified risk materials (SRMs) was inadequate in nine of 12 slaughterhouses visited, and that while the IG found no evidence that possibly infected beef had entered the food supply, it was impossible to assure that proper procedures had been followed.
 

Tam

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HAY MAKER said:
Tam said:
HAY MAKER said:
What conditions changed since he said this

Yes you found a case but he said "so if for some reason we did find a case" . Have the firewalls changed from those you implement in 1997? unfortunately NO. So what Firewalls was he talking about and what conditions are you talking about?
The biggest reason Miss Tam is "BSE"', every time the dust starts settleing and folks start thinking positive about "OTMs" and the border situation,you have another case of "BSE">.................good luck

Nice try Haymaker but I asked if Leo was lieing when he made the comment about your firewalls protecting the US consumers, If Leo's firewalls can protect from NATIVE US BSE why can't they protect consumers from imported????? You said Leo wasn't lieing and the conditions have changed. I want to know what conditions change that made Leo's little comment not a lie. And IF THE US FIREWALL CAN PROTECT THE US CONSUMERS FROM US BSE CATTLE WHY CAN'T THEY PROTECT THEM FROM CANADIAN CATTLE?
 

HAY MAKER

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Tam said:
HAY MAKER said:

Nice try Haymaker but I asked if Leo was lieing when he made the comment about your firewalls protecting the US consumers, If Leo's firewalls can protect from NATIVE US BSE why can't they protect consumers from imported????? You said Leo wasn't lieing and the conditions have changed. I want to know what conditions change that made Leo's little comment not a lie. And IF THE US FIREWALL
CAN PROTECT THE US CONSUMERS FROM US BSE CATTLE WHY CAN'T THEY PROTECT THEM FROM CANADIAN CATTLE?

Because one of the firewalls forbids Canadian OTM cattle,and forget about Leo,he retired.............good luck
 

Bill

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Bill, how will animal ID help in this?:

Quote:
The report also found that record-keeping concerning removal of specified risk materials (SRMs) was inadequate in nine of 12 slaughterhouses visited, and that while the IG found no evidence that possibly infected beef had entered the food supply, it was impossible to assure that proper procedures had been followed.
I don't know how will it help Econ. I see the primary needs for animal ID as traceback, and basically averting the disaster waiting the US beef herd in the event of an infectious disease outbreak whether planned or acciedental?
 

Tam

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Nice try Haymaker but I asked if Leo was lieing when he made the comment about your firewalls protecting the US consumers, If Leo's firewalls can protect from NATIVE US BSE why can't they protect consumers from imported????? You said Leo wasn't lieing and the conditions have changed. I want to know what conditions change that made Leo's little comment not a lie. And IF THE US FIREWALL
CAN PROTECT THE US CONSUMERS FROM US BSE CATTLE WHY CAN'T THEY PROTECT THEM FROM CANADIAN CATTLE?

Because one of the firewalls forbids Canadian OTM cattle,and forget about Leo,he retired.............good luck

How does a firewall that forbids the importation of Canadian OTM cattle protect the consumers from US OTM cattle? And Leo may be Gone but he will never to be forgotten and neither will his stupid comments.
By the Haymaker I love to dance but your are not the kind of parnter I wish to dance with so Answer the question Haymaker
IF THE US FIREWALL CAN PROTECT THE US CONSUMERS FROM US BSE CATTLE WHY CAN'T THEY PROTECT THEM FROM CANADIAN CATTLE?
 

HAY MAKER

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Tam said:
Nice try Haymaker but I asked if Leo was lieing when he made the comment about your firewalls protecting the US consumers, If Leo's firewalls can protect from NATIVE US BSE why can't they protect consumers from imported????? You said Leo wasn't lieing and the conditions have changed. I want to know what conditions change that made Leo's little comment not a lie. And IF THE US FIREWALL
CAN PROTECT THE US CONSUMERS FROM US BSE CATTLE WHY CAN'T THEY PROTECT THEM FROM CANADIAN CATTLE?

Because one of the firewalls forbids Canadian OTM cattle,and forget about Leo,he retired.............good luck

How does a firewall that forbids the importation of Canadian OTM cattle protect the consumers from US OTM cattle? And Leo may be Gone but he will never to be forgotten and neither will his stupid comments.
By the Haymaker I love to dance but your are not the kind of parnter I wish to dance with so Answer the question Haymaker
IF THE US FIREWALL CAN PROTECT THE US CONSUMERS FROM US BSE CATTLE WHY CAN'T THEY PROTECT THEM FROM CANADIAN CATTLE?[/
quote]

I never said it could not,but it is common knowledge Canada has many more cases of BSE,some quite recent I might add that were post feed ban,hence the risk is greater,fire walls are like every thing else Miss Tam they are subject to failure,why put unnecessary pressure on them ?
What makes you think I would dance with a mean canadian woman that has unnecessarily slandered good cattle men............good luck
 

Tam

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HAY MAKER said:
Tam said:
Because one of the firewalls forbids Canadian OTM cattle,and forget about Leo,he retired.............good luck

How does a firewall that forbids the importation of Canadian OTM cattle protect the consumers from US OTM cattle? And Leo may be Gone but he will never to be forgotten and neither will his stupid comments.
By the Haymaker I love to dance but your are not the kind of parnter I wish to dance with so Answer the question Haymaker
IF THE US FIREWALL CAN PROTECT THE US CONSUMERS FROM US BSE CATTLE WHY CAN'T THEY PROTECT THEM FROM CANADIAN CATTLE?[/
quote]

I never said it could not,but it is common knowledge Canada has many more cases of BSE,some quite recent I might add that were post feed ban,hence the risk is greater,fire walls are like every thing else Miss Tam they are subject to failure,why put unnecessary pressure on them ?
What makes you think I would dance with a mean canadian woman that has unnecessarily slandered good cattle men............good luck

I never said it could not,
Is this not why RCALF/LEO says this
importing UTM (under thirty month) cattle and meat from OTM (over thirty month) cattle would put the U.S. feed system in danger.
and this
if the U.S. imports the UTM cattle from Canada to be processed in the U.S. plants, the U.S. consumers would be put in danger.
So which way is it Haymaker can the firewall protect consumers from all cattle domestic or imported or not? If the US firewalls can protect from US BSE then any animal going through the US system Domestic or imported would be treated the same and none of the positive would make it in. BUT if the US firewall can't protect the consumers from one Canadian case then that hole that allowed that animal in, will be allowing US undetected cases in also. You want to support the mouth of your ex-leader so bad you will use any excuse to justify his statements.
And YES Haymaker we found another one that only means our testing is doing what it is suppose to do. BUT please remember where the animal was found, on a FARM not in a slaughter house. So where is the greater risk of the consumer actually coming in contact with the BSE agent, a country that has had 4 cases and NONE of them were in a slaughter house or a Country that had 2 cases found within their borders and one made the food chain and the other took 7 months to confirm? :roll:

it is common knowledge Canada has many more cases of BSE
:roll: :roll:It is also common knowledge where the Washington cow was when she was found and it wasn't the Canadian food chain
 

Kato

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Actually, it is common knowledge that Canada has FOUND more cases of BSE, not necessarily that it HAS more cases. :shock:

There is a difference. A big difference.
 

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