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more ATF F&F crimes

Lonecowboy

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High-ranking officials across Mexico including the Attorney General are reportedly demanding answers from the U.S. government about its secret program that sent high-powered weaponry across the border to drug cartels, saying the Obama administration’s explanations so far are inadequate. The Mexican public is outraged as well.
Hundreds of Mexicans including law-enforcement officers have been murdered with guns traced back to the operation, which was handled by the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (still known as ATF). “Project Gunrunner” weapons were also involved in the deaths of at least a few American agents including Border Patrol officer Brian Terry.Under “Operation Fast and Furious,” the Obama administration was deliberately providing sophisticated and powerful weapons to violent Mexican drug cartels — often using taxpayer money. He was simultaneously campaigning for stricter U.S. gun control by citing violence in Mexico.The U.S. Congress was kept largely in the dark about the scheme until whistleblowers within the ATF started coming forward. And according to officials south of the border, the Mexican government was not informed of the scheme either.

"At no time did we know or were we made aware that there might have been arms trafficking permitted,” Mexican Attorney General Marisela Morales told the Los Angeles Times in a recent interview. "In no way would we have allowed it, because it is an attack on the safety of Mexicans."Morales apparently found out about the deadly U.S. program by reading news reports. And she says Mexico still has not received an explanation from American officials — let alone an apology.

While reluctant to speak out before the results of pending American investigations, the chief Mexican law enforcement officer told the Times that purposefully allowing guns into the hands of Mexican cartels would be a “betrayal” of her country. And according to Congressmen probing the gunrunning scheme such as Sen. Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) and Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.), that is exactly what happened. “The ATF is supposed to stop criminals from trafficking guns to Mexican drug cartels, [but] was actually making that trafficking of arms easier for them,” said Sen. Grassley on the Senate floor earlier this year. “The government actually encouraged gun dealers to sell multiple firearms to known and suspected traffickers.”

It later emerged that taxpayers were even financing at least some of the weapons, and that U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder was lying when he claimed not to know about the program. In fact, he had boasted about it by name before the scandal exploded.This month it was also revealed that the White House had also been briefed about the program on multiple occasions. Several high-ranking officials have already resigned, but activists are still hoping that a special prosecutor will hold senior officials accountable in a court of law.

In addition to Mexico’s Attorney General and numerous federal representatives, another outraged Mexican prosecutor who spoke to the Times takes the issue personally. Patricia Gonzalez, the former chief prosecutor for the Mexican state of Chihuahua, blames the Obama administration’s weapons trafficking for the brutal slaying of her brother.

In 2010, Mario Gonzalez was tortured and executed by a cartel hit man who forced him to “confess” on video that his sister was being paid off by criminals. The killer’s arsenal included AK-47s provided by the U.S. government.The officials who approved Fast and Furious “caused the death of my brother and surely thousands more victims," said Gonzalez, the ex-prosecutor for Chihuahua. Despite her close ties to U.S. officials, she also found out about the link between her brother’s murder and ATF scheme from media reports.Widespread corruption is the official reason cited for keeping the Mexican government out of the loop about Fast and Furious. The administration’s justification for supplying the cartels with high-powered weapons was — supposedly — to trace them to drug kingpins later.

But analysts said the excuse was absurd for several reasons. More likely, according to critics, is that the Obama administration was using the gun trafficking program as part of its anti-Second Amendment campaign to further restrict the rights of law abiding Americans.

And if that was indeed the goal, the program can be called a success. In July, for example, Obama used an executive order to unconstitutionally sidestep Congress and impose more gun control — also in violation of the Constitution.Recent reports have also suggested an even more sinister scenario: The Central Intelligence Agency played a key role in arming the cartels for geopolitical purposes. Other evidence, according to analysts, indicates that the CIA might have even allowed drug shipments into the country in collaboration with other federal agencies.Several drug kingpins also alleged in recent months that the U.S. government was supplying the cartels’ guns while allowing narcotics to be shipped across the border. So far the Justice Department has denied some of those claims, but not all.

More than 40,000 Mexicans have died in the last few years as a result of the war on drugs. But as fury over the Obama administration’s gunrunning scandal continues to grow on both sides of the border, critics say it is time to get to the bottom of the U.S. government’s role in the bloodshed.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-mainmenu-26/north-america-mainmenu-36/9064-mexican-officials-furious-over-atf-gunrunning
 

Lonecowboy

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Well here is more---
Howard has become a key witness in the congressional investigation of the Department of Justice and its alleged cover up of Operation Fast and Furious. The Justice Department has repeatedly said it did not allow guns -- purchased under its direction and authority -- to reach Mexico.

The facts in the case suggest otherwise, but the agency continues to deny it and refuses to turn over pertinent documents to Issa, R-Calif., chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, and Grassley, R-Iowa, ranking member of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

"Andre was acting under the direct supervision of the Department of Justice and ATF. And he thought he was making a difference and that these people were being arrested and there were going to be indictments and that there were going to be prosecutions," Gaydos told Fox News exclusively on Tuesday.

"He is appalled at the position being taken by the Department of Justice and the lack of candor and the lack of cooperation with Congress. He wants the truth to come out for the American people and the Terry Family."Howard is not alone in his regret. Speaking in reaction to the tapes Tuesday was ATF agent and whistleblower Larry Alt, who has never spoken publicly about his opposition to the case and the retaliation he has suffered as a result of it.

"Agent Terry's death brought just a tremendous amount of, I guess, regret and sorrow, disappointment, disgust to myself, to other members of the group. I can't express enough--I've never had an opportunity to publicly express condolences to the Terry family," Alt told Fox News. "I'm almost speechless when it comes to that."

Alt stepped forward after hearing MacAllister disparage his wife and family on the tapes. He felt it was necessary to defend them, and his own reputation. A decorated soldier and police officer, an instructor at the ATF academy, Alt says he and fellow whistleblower John Dodson were transferred to dead-end jobs after standing up to Agent-in-Charge Bill Newell. The ATF in Phoenix and U.S. Attorney's Office in Arizona then attempted to conceal the role they played in directing area gun dealers to sell weapons to buyers the agency knew were breaking the law."We were transferred from the group. We were placed in positions away from the investigation itself, denied access to the investigation," said Alt. "I would view that as a measure of control and if you want to call it a cover up, that would be an accurate statement."
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/21/audio-tapes-reveal-more-details-in-fast-and-furious-gunrunner-scandal/#ixzz1YdtzDi00
 

hypocritexposer

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After reiterating that every law enforcement agent that has been asked about Operation Fast and Furious has said that there is no way that it could have been a viable law enforcement operation, I asked Chairman Issa if there was any evidence of another reason for the implementation of Operation Fast and Furious and the other alleged gun-walking operations.

“This was dumb, it was useless, and it was lethal,” was the soundbite most of us will take away from the call in answer to that question, but his longer answer — which I regret I do not have a transcript of — is far more telling.

Nothing in his response could be construed to mean that Rep. Issa thought Operation Fast and Furious was a legitimate law enforcement operation. And if it does not appear to have been implemented as a legitimate law enforcement operation, then we are left with the possible alternative that the goal of the operation was both illegitimate and unlawful.

Issa put it rather bluntly: “The administration wanted to show that guns found in Mexico came from the United States.”

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/gunwalkers-body-count-grows-along-with-the-obama-administrations-cover-up/?singlepage=true
 

hypocritexposer

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Steve said:
Didn't these guys all swear an oath to uphold the Constitution, not undermine it?


I believe OT did to, but that doesn't deter him from advocating against the Constitution
 

Lonecowboy

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Congressman Darrell Issa (R-Calif., left), Chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, is not impressed with the explanations given by Attorney General Eric Holder and other Department of Justice spokesmen about Operation Fast and Furious — the gun-walker scandal in which ATF officials oversaw the transfer of 2,000 weapons across the border to brutal Mexican drug cartels, mainly the Sinaloa group. He is calling for a formal review by someone outside the government:

We’d like to have a true special prosecutor, particular when it’s obvious if Eric Holder didn’t know, it’s because he didn’t want to know or because he wasn’t doing his job…We’d like to know who did know and why they didn’t brief the attorney general.
Holder in May said that he did not know when he first heard about the operation. Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano claimed that she did not know about the operation until after some weapons sold by federal officers to Mexican drug cartels were found to have been used to murder Border Patrol agents. The sales were out of the Phoenix office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (still known as ATF) in collaboration with the FBI. Napolitano served as Governor of Arizona before taking her federal position. FBI Director Robert Mueller also professed ignorance of the operation. Issa responded to those statements:

So, one of our questions is, why wouldn’t you have known? When was it appropriate for you to be briefed on this and who was keeping it from you? And that becomes the next opportunity with Secretary Napolitano or Eric Holder. One of our questions is: Where do you spend your days and why aren’t you briefed on something like this?... People are picking their words very carefully.
Certainly there are FBI individuals that knew what the director did not know. Certainly there are Homeland Security briefings in which there should have been more. … One of the problems was this is what was called an OCDEFT operation, which means the FBI was an active part of it. Joint funding was used. So, if one were to say, did DEA know, did the FBI know, the answer is yes. Did the director know? I take him at his word — the answer is no.

The Phoenix ATF office illegally sold more than 2,000 firearms under the program with the supposed intention of tracking those weapons to Mexican drug cartels. The reaction of the federal government to the subsequent scandal was to reassign ATF Director Kenneth Melson and to fire the U.S. Attorney for the District of Arizona. Issa has expressed doubt that the Department of Justice will be more aggressive in pursuing possible wrongdoing by higher ranking officials in that agency. Interestingly, other ATF officials involved in Fast and Furious were actually promoted after the incident, including William McMahon, William Newell, and David Voth, who oversaw the operation in the Phoenix office.

In Fast and Furious, ATF agents were specifically forbidden from either interfering with the illegal sales of firearms, intercepting firearms smugglers, or retrieving illegally sold weapons. If Holder and Napolitano have hidden their knowledge of the operation in sworn statements to Congress, whether or not the original operation was legal or not, their perjured testimony would be a crime for which they could be indicted.

Andre Howard, owner of Lone Wolf Trading Company, the gun store which sold many of the weapons for the Fast and Furious operation, recently revealed through his attorney, Larry Gaydos, that he made tapes of his conversations with ATF agents after he began to suspect that they were lying to him. Gaydos told Fox News:

Andre was acting under the direct supervision of the Department of Justice and ATF. And he thought he was making a difference and that these people were being arrested and there were going to be indictments and that there were going to be prosecutions. He is appalled at the position being taken by the Department of Justice and the lack of candor and lack of cooperation with Congress.

ATF agent Larry Alt has also come forward to reveal that because he and another agent, John Dodson, opposed Fast and Furious, they were both reassigned to unattractive jobs:

We were transferred from the group. We were placed in positions away from the investigation itself, denied access to the investigation. I would view that as a measure of control and if your want to call it a cover up, that would be an accurate statement.

A growing number of observers believe that there is more than enough questionable behavior and dubious sworn statements involved with Fast and Furious to merit the appointment of a special prosecutor to investigate the operation. And now House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa has publicly called for such a move.

www.thenewamerican.com
 

Lonecowboy

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WOW, 7 agencies involved, how high up does initial authorization for this go? and subpoenas for thousands of pages and only 12 documents released.
oldtimer what happened to obama's transperency? do you still want to maintain this is a sting gone wrong?

Congressional Republicans once again are turning up the heat on Attorney General Eric Holder, asking more questions about whether he had a role in the controversial anti-gunrunning operation known as "Fast and Furious."

The new inquiry comes from Rep. Lamar Smith of Texas, the ranking Republican on the House Judiciary Committee. Despite recent personnel changes at the Justice Department, Smith told Holder in a letter Friday the department cannot "pin this scandal on a few individuals and expect it to be forgotten."

"Fast and Furious was a result of systemic problems at the ATF. Congressional interest will continue until we fully understand who authorized the failed program," Smith said.

The idea behind Fast and Furious, hatched in the ATF's Phoenix office, was to let so-called straw buyers purchase guns in the United States so they could be traced to big-time gunrunners in Mexico. But documents and testimony now show that U.S. officials lost track of thousands of guns, some of which later were found at the scenes of violent crimes, including the murder of a U.S. border agent.

On Friday, National Rifle Association President Wayne LaPierre accused Holder of stonewalling Congress.

"This is the biggest cover-up since Watergate, and it's time to ask the Watergate question. Who authorized Fast and Furious, and how high up does it go?" LaPierre asked during a speech to the Conservative Political Action Conference in Orlando.

According to a source close to the investigation, despite numerous subpoenas and demands for potentially thousands of pages of records, the Justice Department has turned over just 12 documents. Unless the House Oversight Committee can cut lose more incriminating documents from the Justice Department or additional whistleblowers come forward, the investigation could stall, said a person familiar with the situation.

So far, the scandal has produced headlines but only one resignation, that of the U.S. attorney in Arizona.

The paper trail however has revealed blatant lying by the Justice Department, which originally told Sen. Charles Grassley the ATF did not "walk" guns. That position conflicts with agent testimony and pages of internal emails.
A document obtained Friday by Foxnews shows the following agencies all had some hand in Operation Fast and Furious: ATF, IRS, DEA, ICE, the U.S. Marshall's Service, Phoenix police and the U.S. Department of Agriculture.


The operation allowed members of the Sinaloa Cartel to buy in excess of 1,900 weapons for more than $1.25 million dollars over a one-year period beginning October 2009, according to a briefing paper dated last January. The briefing paper did not delineate the duties of each agency, but other records have shown the IRS investigated the income sources of the straw buyers, Phoenix police assisted occasionally with surveillance, the DEA shared its informant and ICE “saw everything and had access to everything” the ATF did, according to an agent tasked to Fast and Furious.

But throughout the operation, the agency recovered just over 10 percent of the weapons.

An ATF whistleblower agent told Fox News the agency made "absolutely no attempt to follow the weapons." And even though agents used electronic vehicle trackers, they only used them on the strawbuyers, not on those to whom they transferred the weapons.

This does not jibe with an amended statement issued Thursday by ATF Agent in Charge Bill Newell, who claimed in a letter to Congress his the agency used "a wide variety of well established law enforcement investigative techniques" to interdict and seize weapons.

In his letter to Holder on Friday, Rep. Smith demanded to know what oversight role the Justice Department had over Fast and Furious. He also noted that President Obama promised a new era of government "transparency and openness" when elected in 2008, a promise that Smith says rings empty
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/23/republicans-step-up-pressure-on-holder-as-more-details-surface-on-fast-and/?intcmp=obinsite#ixzz1YvNHkw1e
 

Steve

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FED Agencies are not know for cooperation in large operations.. often policy differences interfere without higher ups getting involved..

Why was the dept of agriculture involved.. were they buying the guns with food-stamps?
 

Lonecowboy

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Steve said:
FED Agencies are not know for cooperation in large operations.. often policy differences interfere without higher ups getting involved..

Why was the dept of agriculture involved.. were they buying the guns with food-stamps?

and who is telling all these agencies to NOT cooperate?

can't these subpoena's for information be forced?
if they refuse to answer these subpoena's can't people go to jail?
 

Steve

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Lonecowboy said:
Steve said:
FED Agencies are not know for cooperation in large operations.. often policy differences interfere without higher ups getting involved..

Why was the dept of agriculture involved.. were they buying the guns with food-stamps?

and who is telling all these agencies to NOT cooperate?



can't these subpoena's for information be forced?
if they refuse to answer these subpoena's can't people go to jail?

I would say the lack of cooperation stems from over-sized egos and policy differences.. each agency has different goals, which often overlap, yet communication at the field level is seldom possible due to the nature of the operations.. for an operation the size and scope of the failed fast and stupid, this had to be coordinated higher then the field level,, with multiple agencies "authorizing" each step..

if it was a few cases and one agency one could say a mid level bureaucrat was overzealous.. but this is not the case.. it had to be at the upper levels of bureaucracy.

I think a special prosecutor is needed and soon... these people need to go to jail.. be fired and most of all exposed..

Their judgement is flawed, and their actions illegal..
 

Lonecowboy

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Steve said:
Lonecowboy said:
Steve said:
FED Agencies are not know for cooperation in large operations.. often policy differences interfere without higher ups getting involved..

Why was the dept of agriculture involved.. were they buying the guns with food-stamps?

and who is telling all these agencies to NOT cooperate?



can't these subpoena's for information be forced?
if they refuse to answer these subpoena's can't people go to jail?

I would say the lack of cooperation stems from over-sized egos and policy differences.. each agency has different goals, which often overlap, yet communication at the field level is seldom possible due to the nature of the operations.. for an operation the size and scope of the failed fast and stupid, this had to be coordinated higher then the field level,, with multiple agencies "authorizing" each step..

if it was a few cases and one agency one could say a mid level bureaucrat was overzealous.. but this is not the case.. it had to be at the upper levels of bureaucracy.

I think a special prosecutor is needed and soon... these people need to go to jail.. be fired and most of all exposed..

Their judgement is flawed, and their actions illegal..

in my book supplting arms to foreign criminals so they can invade our country and murder our citizens is TREASON and should be treated as such!
 

Lonecowboy

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Not only did U.S. officials approve, allow and assist in the sale of more than 2,000 guns to the Sinaloa cartel -- the federal government used taxpayer money to buy semi-automatic weapons, sold them to criminals and then watched as the guns disappeared.

This disclosure, revealed in documents obtained by Fox News, could undermine the Department of Justice's previous defense that Operation Fast and Furious was a "botched" operation where agents simply "lost track" of weapons as they were transferred from one illegal buyer to another. Instead, it heightens the culpability of the federal government as Mexico, according to sources, has opened two criminal investigations into the operation that flooded their country with illegal weapons.

so lets put this in perspective- the federal government circumvents our Constitution to place limits on our Right to keep and bear arms--so we are limited in our ability to defend ourselves. Then confiscates the fruit of our labor (money) and uses that money against us by using it to supply our enemies, foreign criminals, with arms to come murder Americans with.
 

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Lonecowboy said:
Not only did U.S. officials approve, allow and assist in the sale of more than 2,000 guns to the Sinaloa cartel -- the federal government used taxpayer money to buy semi-automatic weapons, sold them to criminals and then watched as the guns disappeared.

This disclosure, revealed in documents obtained by Fox News, could undermine the Department of Justice's previous defense that Operation Fast and Furious was a "botched" operation where agents simply "lost track" of weapons as they were transferred from one illegal buyer to another. Instead, it heightens the culpability of the federal government as Mexico, according to sources, has opened two criminal investigations into the operation that flooded their country with illegal weapons.

so lets put this in perspective- the federal government circumvents our Constitution to place limits on our Right to keep and bear arms--so we are limited in our ability to defend ourselves. Then confiscates the fruit of our labor (money) and uses that money against us by using it to supply our enemies, foreign criminals, with arms to come murder Americans with.




Yes sir reeee I think you covered it all...... Sad isn't it?? :( What has this nation become? :mad:
 

Lonecowboy

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katrina said:
Lonecowboy said:
Not only did U.S. officials approve, allow and assist in the sale of more than 2,000 guns to the Sinaloa cartel -- the federal government used taxpayer money to buy semi-automatic weapons, sold them to criminals and then watched as the guns disappeared.

This disclosure, revealed in documents obtained by Fox News, could undermine the Department of Justice's previous defense that Operation Fast and Furious was a "botched" operation where agents simply "lost track" of weapons as they were transferred from one illegal buyer to another. Instead, it heightens the culpability of the federal government as Mexico, according to sources, has opened two criminal investigations into the operation that flooded their country with illegal weapons.

so lets put this in perspective- the federal government circumvents our Constitution to place limits on our Right to keep and bear arms--so we are limited in our ability to defend ourselves. Then confiscates the fruit of our labor (money) and uses that money against us by using it to supply our enemies, foreign criminals, with arms to come murder Americans with.




Yes sir reeee I think you covered it all...... Sad isn't it?? :( What has this nation become? :mad:

I have to slightly disagree Katrina- I don't believe for a second that this is what our nation has become- we have just been slack and allowed some undesirables to infiltrate our government- it is now time to take out the trash!
 

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Lonecowboy said:
katrina said:
Lonecowboy said:
so lets put this in perspective- the federal government circumvents our Constitution to place limits on our Right to keep and bear arms--so we are limited in our ability to defend ourselves. Then confiscates the fruit of our labor (money) and uses that money against us by using it to supply our enemies, foreign criminals, with arms to come murder Americans with.




Yes sir reeee I think you covered it all...... Sad isn't it?? :( What has this nation become? :mad:

I have to slightly disagree Katrina- I don't believe for a second that this is what our nation has become- we have just been slack and allowed some undesirables to infiltrate our government- it is now time to take out the trash!

You have more faith than I do.... I can't even get a descent road to drive on.
 

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Instead, it heightens the culpability of the federal government as Mexico, according to sources, has opened two criminal investigations into the operation that flooded their country with illegal weapons.

so much for raising our standing in the International community.. :roll: :roll: :???:
 

Steve

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katrina said:
You have more faith than I do.... I can't even get a descent road to drive on.

you should run for Office,,, then maybe you could get it graded... :lol: :lol: :?




The road in front of a politicians house is always recently paved.... and not with good intentions... :shock:
 

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