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More Canadian Health Care News

aplusmnt

Well-known member
According to the Health Consumer Powerhouse / Frontier Centre for Public Policy Euro-Canada Health Consumer Index 2008

Canada placed 29 out of 29 in Study with European nations on Value to money rating in Health Care!

Go to last page for Rating chart.

http://www.fcpp.org/images/publications/6.%20Bang-For-The-Buck%20Adjusted%20Scores.pdf

From the Study

Canada

Solid medical outcomes, moderate-to-poor provision levels, and very poor
scores with regard to patients’ rights and accessibility. Canada is in the
bottom quartile in the overall matrix; Canada’s very high level of
healthcare spending means that when adjusted for bang-for-the-buck, the
country places last in the that ranking.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
A Decima Research poll commissioned by the College of Family Physicians of Canada in September 20061 revealed that 17% of Canadians do not have family physicians—about 5 million Canadians have no family doctor. Of these 5 million, nearly 2 million have looked for a doctor but cannot find one. With an aging family physician population and a projected increase in the population of seniors as baby boomers reach retirement, there is a looming crisis in primary care in Canada.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1949098
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Canada’s Doctor Shortage
Comparing Canada with the World


Canada versus the World: Average physicians per 1,000 people

According to the latest figures from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), Canada ranks 23rd out of 30 countries (tied with New Zealand) for doctors per 1,000 people. In 2005, the last year available, Canada had just 2.2 doctors per 1,000 people, barely higher than in 1990 when Canada had 2.1 physicians per 1,000 people (OECD, 2007).

In contrast, in 2005, Greece, Belgium, Switzerland, Spain, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Iceland, Denmark, the Czech Republic, Austria, France, Germany, Portugal, Sweden, the Slovak Republic, Hungary, Ireland, Australia, Luxembourg, Finland, the United States and the United Kingdom all had more physicians per 1,000 people.

The number of physicians per 1,000 in these countries was 2.4 in the United Kingdom; 3.8 in Spain, Switzerland and Italy; 4.0 in Belgium; and 4.9 in Greece. When Canadians fall ill, they should hope they are on vacation in the Swiss Alps or on a beach in Spain, Italy or Greece. The OECD average is 3.0 physicians per 1,000 people.

Canada is losing ground compared to other countries

Since 1990, 24 other countries increased their physician-people ratio by 10 per cent or more. Since 1990, the doctor-people ratio increased 16 per cent in New Zealand; 18 per cent in Japan; 20 per cent in Finland; 21 per cent in Belgium, Germany, and Portugal; 23 per cent in Australia; 24 per cent in Denmark; 27 per cent in Switzerland; and 32 per cent in Iceland. The ratio increased 40 per cent in Ireland, 48 per cent in the Netherlands, 50 per cent in the United Kingdom and 59 per cent in Austria.

In comparison, Canada’s ratio of doctors to people (2.2 per 1,000 in 2005, up from 2.1 per 1,000 in 1990) increased only 5 per cent. Besides Canada, only Hungary, Italy and Poland failed to increase their physician supply ratio by 10 per cent or more.

It should be noted that two of these countries – Hungary and Italy – already had significantly higher doctor-people ratios than Canada in 1990. Hungary’s ratio was 2.8 doctors and Italy’s was 3.8 doctors per 1,000.

The doctor shortage in Canada is but one example of a health-care system that is inadequate and in need of reform

http://www.fcpp.org/main/publication_detail.php?PubID=2244
 

Broke Cowboy

Well-known member
I believe that any person who is the slightest bit reasonable will agree with the above comments.

In my own personal opinion - having been through the mill with a broken back - the wait times and the run arounds are the problem.

Once you are in the system the quality of care seems to be quite good despite there being a serious lack of certain specialists in many areas which causes the Canadian system to actually ship patients to the US of A at times.

That and the fact that costs are rising faster than taxes will bear.

Doctors are a truly rare commodity - the Canadian military has a $250,000 hiring bonus for any qualified doctor. Some towns and villages are building offices and houses to provide a doctor - should he or she want to come to that area - a place to live and work - all for free.

Anything to attract medical help.

This all goes back to some years ago when university and medical training facitlities in Canada were trimmed as doctors were considered to be in excess.

Then the bubble burst - my own flight surgeon is now practicing in Corpus Christi - better conditions is what he told me.

It all comes down to money in the end - and there simply is not enough to go around and remain OUT of the deficit position.

I do not have the solution but I do know this - providing everything for nothing will mean the costs will never even out or go down - it is an elevator to the top and cash will be the king.

And the taxpayer will pay all the way.

Hope we have enough taxpayers!

Cheers

BC
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Canadians begin waiting for surgery before getting on the “wait list”

New CIHI report pulls together health services wait times information from across Canada, providing a guide to who is waiting for what and for how long.

In this release: Waiting to see a specialist | Waiting for diagnostic tests | Waiting for surgery | About CIHI | Figures and Tables | Report | Contact


March 7, 2006—Much of the attention on waiting for health care focuses on surgical and diagnostic imaging wait lists. New data show that, at least in some cases, waiting to see a specialist also makes up a significant proportion of the overall waiting period for care. For example, in the case of hip and knee replacement patients, nearly one-third of the time between referral to a specialist and surgery was spent waiting for an initial visit to the orthopedic surgeon.

This is just one of the findings released today by the Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI) in Waiting for Health Care in Canada: What We Know and What We Don’t Know. This new report compiles information from various data sources to provide a unique picture of waits for assessment and diagnosis, surgery and post-acute care.

Waiting too long was the leading barrier to getting care, according to Canadian adults who reported difficulties accessing specialist care for a new illness or condition, non-emergency diagnostic imaging or non-emergency surgery in a 2005 Statistics Canada survey.1

“Understandably, Canadians care deeply about how long they and their loved ones have to wait for care,” says CIHI President and CEO Glenda Yeates. “And while we know a lot more about wait times now than we did just a year ago, we do not yet have a comprehensive, cross‑Canada picture.”

Waiting to see a specialist
In 2005, 2.8 million Canadian adults said that they had visited a specialist for a new illness or condition. Half reported waiting four weeks or less, but some had much longer or shorter waits. Eighty-eight percent said that their visit took place within three months.

Following a specialist visit, some patients need further care. For example, new data from CIHI on hip and knee replacements tracked waits between the referral to a specialist and surgery for patients in 2005. On average, 30% of the total wait was spent waiting for an initial appointment with the orthopedic surgeon. Another 10% of the time went by before the decision was made to have surgery. The wait for surgery itself, sometimes several months, constituted on average about 60% of the total waiting time. Data reflect submissions from selected orthopedic surgeons in eight provinces.

Waiting for diagnostic tests
Canada is performing more MRI and CT exams than ever before, but typical wait times have not changed in recent years. In a 2005 survey, half of the 2.1 million adults who had a non‑emergency MRI, CT or angiography in the past year reported waiting three weeks or less. Ninety percent reported that their tests took place within four months. Canadians tend to wait longer for MRI exams than for CT exams, according to provincial wait times data and a CIHI snapshot survey.

How long you wait depends on what type of patient you are. For example, most CT exams are for outpatient diagnostic purposes with typical waits of a few weeks, although some patients wait less or more time. In contrast, one in three patients requiring a CT exam are referred while in a hospital emergency department or inpatient bed. This group typically will have their exam on the day it was requested or the next day. A smaller number of other patients (12%) are scheduled to have a follow-up exam—meaning a period of time must go by before the next exam takes place. The extent to which follow-up exams are included in current wait times reporting is unknown.

Waiting for surgery: the four priority areas
In 2005, half of the 1.5 million adults who had non-emergency surgery in the past year reported waiting 30 days or less, according to a Statistics Canada survey. Ten percent said they waited six months or more. According to survey results, an estimated 162,000 adults experienced difficulty getting non-emergency surgery.

Governments have agreed on four priority areas for reducing surgical wait times: cardiac care, sight restoration (cataract surgery), orthopedics and cancer. “Measuring wait times is challenging,” says CIHI Vice President of Research and Analysis, Jennifer Zelmer. “Most provinces monitor some surgical wait times, but the level and nature of tracking varies greatly.”

Across the country, the data show that wait times tend to be longest for knee replacements, followed by hip replacements and cataract surgery. Typical waits for cardiac procedures tend to be shorter.

Cardiac surgery: The number of angioplasty and bypass surgeries had a combined increase of 51% over five years between 1997–1998 and 2002–2003, amounting to almost 22,000 more surgeries over this period. A group of patients we know most about are new heart attack patients who have angioplasty or bypass surgery within a year. According to CIHI analysis, half of this group waited four days or less for angioplasty and two-and-a-half weeks or less for bypass surgery. However, the 10% of patients who waited the longest had waits that were six or more times longer than those of typical patients.

Provincial reporting—As of December 2005, seven provinces reported wait times for bypass surgery. Wait times tend to be longer in provinces that track wait times for elective cases only, compared with those that capture waits for both elective and emergency bypass surgeries. Fewer provinces tracked wait times for angioplasty and cardiac catheterization. Alberta, British Columbia, Manitoba, Newfoundland and Labrador, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Ontario, Quebec and Saskatchewan reported wait times for bypass and/or cardiac surgery.

Hip fractures: In 2002–2003, the number of Canadians hospitalized for hip fractures increased by 2% from five years earlier. In 2003–2004, seven out of eight Canadians underwent surgery to repair a hip fracture within two days of being admitted to hospital, according to new CIHI analysis based on hospital administrative data.

Provincial reporting—In December 2005, health ministers adopted a common goal of hip fracture fixation within 48 hours. At that time, no provinces specifically reported wait times for hip fracture surgeries on their Web sites. Some information is, however, available from existing administrative databases.

Joint replacements: Joint replacement surgeries grew significantly in the five years leading up to 2002–2003. Together, knee and hip replacement surgeries increased 30%, amounting to 11,340 more surgeries over this period. According to the Canadian Joint Replacement Registry, waits for a knee replacement are longer than for a hip replacement, with half of all patients undergoing surgery within seven months for knees and four-and-a-half months for hips. However, 10% of knee replacement patients wait 21 months or more, while 10% of hip replacement patients wait 15 months or more. These results reflect submissions from selected orthopedic surgeons in eight provinces.

Provincial reporting—As of December 2005, eight provinces reported estimates of wait times for hip and knee replacements. Those reporting wait time distributions (rather than just an average or median) showed that a portion of patients undergo surgery within a few weeks, while others wait a year or more. Alberta, B.C., Manitoba, Nova Scotia, Ontario, P.E.I., Quebec and Saskatchewan reported wait times for joint replacements.

Cataract surgery: There was a 32% increase in cataract surgeries over five years, between 1997–1998 and 2002–2003, amounting to more than 62,000 additional cataract surgeries over this period. In December 2005, health ministers set a goal to provide cataract surgery within 16 weeks for patients at high risk. Substantial differences in the way data are collected make interprovincial comparisons difficult.

Provincial reporting—As of December 2005, Alberta, B.C., Nova Scotia, Ontario, Quebec and Saskatchewan reported wait times for cataract surgery. However, none of the provinces provide wait times by risk group.

Cancer:Tracking cancer care is complex because of the diversity in the types of cancer and the types of treatment. As of December 2005, very little comparable wait time data were available for the various cancer surgeries . However, more provinces track wait times for radiation therapy than for cancer surgery or chemotherapy.

Provincial reporting—In December 2005, healthministers set benchmarks to provide radiation therapy within four weeks of a patient being ready to treat. Wait times reported by six provinces suggest that median waits are currently below this point for at least some facilities and body sites in each jurisdiction reporting wait times. Alberta, B.C., Manitoba, Nova Scotia, Ontario and P.E.I. reported wait times for radiation therapy.
“Tracking wait times is a complicated business—identifying where the waits are occurring, ensuring comparable measurements from clinic to clinic, hospital to hospital and province to province,” says CIHI Board Chair Graham W.S. Scott C.M., Q.C. “Wait time measurement and reporting have improved, but there is still much work to be done with the provinces on making data more comparable across the country. The goal is to create a comprehensive picture of access to care in the future.”

Since data were collected from provincial Web sites for this report, some governments have increased their reporting.

http://secure.cihi.ca/cihiweb/dispPage.jsp?cw_page=media_07mar2006_e
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Out of all these studies what I find interesting is that the largest wait times are on things that are the fastest to get fixed here in the U.S.

Things like Hips, Knees, Cataracts can be set up and taken care of in a matter of days.

To wait a year for a knee surgery is unbelievable.

My sons little league coach tore up his knee working on the infield before a game, the next week he was on crutches and I asked him if it was still hurting, he said no he had surgery on it and had to stay off it for a while. Less than a week went by and he had knee surgery. No year wait!
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
All the studies above were Canadian studies including the European/Canadian study. None of these came from Radical right wing Conservative sources they are all from Canadian sources.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
Out of all these studies what I find interesting is that the largest wait times are on things that are the fastest to get fixed here in the U.S.

Things like Hips, Knees, Cataracts can be set up and taken care of in a matter of days.

To wait a year for a knee surgery is unbelievable.

My sons little league coach tore up his knee working on the infield before a game, the next week he was on crutches and I asked him if it was still hurting, he said no he had surgery on it and had to stay off it for a while. Less than a week went by and he had knee surgery. No year wait!

to be fair A+, I think most of the wait on knee surgeries are for replacements. Some people also put them off a bit, because you are only allowed so many in your life time.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
From the The Canadian Nurses Association (CNA)

The recent economic downturn has exposed cracks in the health-care system that need to be addressed without delay. CNA Chief Executive Officer Rachel Bard states, "A CMA survey this week reveals that 14 per cent of Canadians had delayed or stopped buying their prescription medications because money was too tight. This undermines the principle of accessibility in our health-care system. What good is a free diagnosis when you can't afford the treatment?"

http://www.news-medical.net/news/20090819/Canadian-Nurses-Association-applauds-new-CMA-head.aspx


Turns out 70 of Canadians do not get Free medicine and have to buy supplemental Insurance to pay for their Medication. Does not do much good to get free doctor visit if you can not afford the medicine to take! :?
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
aplusmnt said:
Out of all these studies what I find interesting is that the largest wait times are on things that are the fastest to get fixed here in the U.S.

Things like Hips, Knees, Cataracts can be set up and taken care of in a matter of days.

To wait a year for a knee surgery is unbelievable.

My sons little league coach tore up his knee working on the infield before a game, the next week he was on crutches and I asked him if it was still hurting, he said no he had surgery on it and had to stay off it for a while. Less than a week went by and he had knee surgery. No year wait!

to be fair A+, I think most of the wait on knee surgeries are for replacements. Some people also put them off a bit, because you are only allowed so many in your life time.

I think they are reporting the wait for those on list to get them, not those waiting because they can not decide.

But either way what about the cataract surgery, why would people have to wait so long for this? :?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Assignment for Aplus:
How many doctors per 1000 in the USA.
Also what is the projected cost of the health care plans from congress. One with the public option in it.
Is it 1 trillion or 611 billion.
Dig it out and post, I know what found, but I would like to see what you find out.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
hurleyjd said:
Assignment for Aplus:
How many doctors per 1000 in the USA.
Also what is the projected cost of the health care plans from congress. One with the public option in it.
Is it 1 trillion or 611 billion.
Dig it out and post, I know what found, but I would like to see what you find out.

Physicians is around 2.4 to 2.5 per 1,000

Nurses about 10 per 1,000

Not interested enough in looking up projected cost in health care plans, I don't care how cheap or how expensive they are because I do not want Social Health Care. Have to leave that one to you! :wink:
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Really surprised that after reading some Canadian facts that some did not want to use this opportunity to apologize to Tam and admit they were wrong and Canadian health care! :shock:
 

nonothing

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
From the The Canadian Nurses Association (CNA)

The recent economic downturn has exposed cracks in the health-care system that need to be addressed without delay. CNA Chief Executive Officer Rachel Bard states, "A CMA survey this week reveals that 14 per cent of Canadians had delayed or stopped buying their prescription medications because money was too tight. This undermines the principle of accessibility in our health-care system. What good is a free diagnosis when you can't afford the treatment?"

http://www.news-medical.net/news/20090819/Canadian-Nurses-Association-applauds-new-CMA-head.aspx


Turns out 70 of Canadians do not get Free medicine and have to buy supplemental Insurance to pay for their Medication. Does not do much good to get free doctor visit if you can not afford the medicine to take! :?

First off you dummy its not free as we pay for it not just through taxes like Tam may have you believe......We pay to have medical ....and just like you Aplus we pay for our meds and if people can not afford them the go with out....just like in America....You would not know the struggle though because your wife takes care of you and your family....You get a free ride...

Most of your posts were over 3 to 4 years old ,how are we suppose to even take you serious...You may wanna check your motives first before you next reserching session....
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
nonothing said:
aplusmnt said:
From the The Canadian Nurses Association (CNA)

The recent economic downturn has exposed cracks in the health-care system that need to be addressed without delay. CNA Chief Executive Officer Rachel Bard states, "A CMA survey this week reveals that 14 per cent of Canadians had delayed or stopped buying their prescription medications because money was too tight. This undermines the principle of accessibility in our health-care system. What good is a free diagnosis when you can't afford the treatment?"

http://www.news-medical.net/news/20090819/Canadian-Nurses-Association-applauds-new-CMA-head.aspx


Turns out 70 of Canadians do not get Free medicine and have to buy supplemental Insurance to pay for their Medication. Does not do much good to get free doctor visit if you can not afford the medicine to take! :?

First off you dummy its not free as we pay for it not just through taxes like Tam may have you believe......We pay to have medical ....and just like you Aplus we pay for our meds and if people can not afford them the go with out....just like in America....You would not know the struggle though because your wife takes care of you and your family....You get a free ride...

Most of your posts were over 3 to 4 years old ,how are we suppose to even take you serious...You may wanna check your motives first before you next reserching session....

So you pay for stuff through your taxes and in ways also but then you have to wait a year for Knee Surgery? How can you take pride in a system like that? How can you be happy that 40% of your Tax revenue goes to health care but you still have to wait months or more for a simple Surgery?

What person wants to pay for something and then wait months and years to get what they paid for already?

As for the info the bulk of it is 2008 information, sorry but studies like these are not done on a week by week basis, they are done every year or less often than that! Silly kid, this grown up stuff confuses you! :lol:
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
What would angioplasty cost in the US for a US citizen? Is this costing more than having the services in Canada?

Canadians visit U.S. to get health care

Deal lets many go to Michigan hospitals

BY PATRICIA ANSTETT
FREE PRESS MEDICAL WRITER

Hospitals in border cities, including Detroit, are forging lucrative arrangements with Canadian health agencies to provide care not widely available across the border.

Agreements between Detroit hospitals and the Ontario Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care for heart, imaging tests, bariatric and other services provide access to some services not immediately available in the province, said ministry spokesman David Jensen.

The agreements show how a country with a national care system -- a proposal not part of the health care changes under discussion in Congress -- copes with demand for care with U.S. partnerships, rather than building new facilities.

Michael Vujovich, 61, of Windsor was taken to Detroit's Henry Ford Hospital for an angioplasty procedure after he went to a Windsor hospital in April. Vujovich said the U.S. backup doesn't show a gap in Canada's system, but shows how it works.

"I go to the hospital in Windsor and two hours later, I'm done having angioplasty in Detroit," he said. His $38,000 bill was covered by the Ontario health ministry.

http://freep.com/article/20090820/BUSINESS06/908200420/1319/
 

Tam

Well-known member
nonothing said:
aplusmnt said:
From the The Canadian Nurses Association (CNA)

The recent economic downturn has exposed cracks in the health-care system that need to be addressed without delay. CNA Chief Executive Officer Rachel Bard states, "A CMA survey this week reveals that 14 per cent of Canadians had delayed or stopped buying their prescription medications because money was too tight. This undermines the principle of accessibility in our health-care system. What good is a free diagnosis when you can't afford the treatment?"

http://www.news-medical.net/news/20090819/Canadian-Nurses-Association-applauds-new-CMA-head.aspx


Turns out 70 of Canadians do not get Free medicine and have to buy supplemental Insurance to pay for their Medication. Does not do much good to get free doctor visit if you can not afford the medicine to take! :?

First off you dummy its not free as we pay for it not just through taxes like Tam may have you believe......We pay to have medical ....and just like you Aplus we pay for our meds and if people can not afford them the go with out....just like in America....You would not know the struggle though because your wife takes care of you and your family....You get a free ride...

Most of your posts were over 3 to 4 years old ,how are we suppose to even take you serious...You may wanna check your motives first before you next reserching session....

Mind backing the comment about me nonothing :? Where have I ever said we don't pay extra for our care? In fact many pay extra for actual care, when they give up and find another way to get the help they need. :wink: But We also pay extra for things like drugs, ambulance ridings, crutches, dentist, Massage therapy, Chiropractors and several other things. If you are hospitalized and don't care to be stuck in a ward where nurses are in and out all night long checking the other patients and want a private room so you can maybe get some sleep you pay for that too if you don't have insurance to pay for these things. So Please provide a quote from me that was to make anyone think we don't pay extra?
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Tam said:
nonothing said:
aplusmnt said:
From the The Canadian Nurses Association (CNA)

The recent economic downturn has exposed cracks in the health-care system that need to be addressed without delay. CNA Chief Executive Officer Rachel Bard states, "A CMA survey this week reveals that 14 per cent of Canadians had delayed or stopped buying their prescription medications because money was too tight. This undermines the principle of accessibility in our health-care system. What good is a free diagnosis when you can't afford the treatment?"

http://www.news-medical.net/news/20090819/Canadian-Nurses-Association-applauds-new-CMA-head.aspx


Turns out 70 of Canadians do not get Free medicine and have to buy supplemental Insurance to pay for their Medication. Does not do much good to get free doctor visit if you can not afford the medicine to take! :?

First off you dummy its not free as we pay for it not just through taxes like Tam may have you believe......We pay to have medical ....and just like you Aplus we pay for our meds and if people can not afford them the go with out....just like in America....You would not know the struggle though because your wife takes care of you and your family....You get a free ride...

Most of your posts were over 3 to 4 years old ,how are we suppose to even take you serious...You may wanna check your motives first before you next reserching session....

Mind backing the comment about me nonothing :? Where have I ever said we don't pay extra for our care? In fact many pay extra for actual care, when they give up and find another way to get the help they need. :wink: But We also pay extra for things like drugs, ambulance ridings, crutches, dentist, Massage therapy, Chiropractors and several other things. If you are hospitalized and don't care to be stuck in a ward where nurses are in and out all night long checking the other patients and want a private room so you can maybe get some sleep you pay for that too if you don't have insurance to pay for these things. So Please provide a quote from me that was to make anyone think we don't pay extra?

nonothing just does not get it, when I say you guys get free health care that is in jest. I actually know you guys pay for it, you have a super high tax rate. I saw a thing were the U.S. was recruiting Canadian Nurses and in their sales pitch they pointed out they would have about a 30% larger take home pay in the U.S. due to Canada's higher tax rates.

Sad thing I see about Canadian health care is that so many pay for it but then do not get it or have to wait a long time for it. If I was a dead beat not paying any taxes then that may be a good deal, but if I was a hard worker paying into the system and then having to wait so long to get healed I would be pretty mad!

To pay twice for the same service is not something to be proud of!

Maybe nonothing likes the coverage so much because he is one of them few getting it for free! :wink:
 

Tam

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
Tam said:
nonothing said:
First off you dummy its not free as we pay for it not just through taxes like Tam may have you believe......We pay to have medical ....and just like you Aplus we pay for our meds and if people can not afford them the go with out....just like in America....You would not know the struggle though because your wife takes care of you and your family....You get a free ride...

Most of your posts were over 3 to 4 years old ,how are we suppose to even take you serious...You may wanna check your motives first before you next reserching session....

Mind backing the comment about me nonothing :? Where have I ever said we don't pay extra for our care? In fact many pay extra for actual care, when they give up and find another way to get the help they need. :wink: But We also pay extra for things like drugs, ambulance ridings, crutches, dentist, Massage therapy, Chiropractors and several other things. If you are hospitalized and don't care to be stuck in a ward where nurses are in and out all night long checking the other patients and want a private room so you can maybe get some sleep you pay for that too if you don't have insurance to pay for these things. So Please provide a quote from me that was to make anyone think we don't pay extra?

nonothing just does not get it, when I say you guys get free health care that is in jest. I actually know you guys pay for it, you have a super high tax rate. I saw a thing were the U.S. was recruiting Canadian Nurses and in their sales pitch they pointed out they would have about a 30% larger take home pay in the U.S. due to Canada's higher tax rates.

Sad thing I see about Canadian health care is that so many pay for it but then do not get it or have to wait a long time for it. If I was a dead beat not paying any taxes then that may be a good deal, but if I was a hard worker paying into the system and then having to wait so long to get healed I would be pretty mad!

To pay twice for the same service is not something to be proud of!

Maybe nonothing likes the coverage so much because he is one of them few getting it for free! :wink:

While I was driving home today I was listening to the radio and John was talking about the Canadian Health Care system. He said somethings that some on here will not agree with :wink: One comment was about how it took the US health care debate to bring to light the proper description of our system which was RATIONED. He said when there is only so many resourses IE Taxes, the results is a system of RATIONING. Those that are the most serious are taken care of but the rest wait. Those waiting lists supposedly now number over a Million. Which is not hard to believe when there are 5 million looking for family doctors.
The next comment he made was about why Canadians don't like to discuss the first comment. According to him it is because Canadians would rather deny the problem exists than to discuss it. They would rather shut down any discussion verses chancing a disagreement. :wink:

Which I believe in part. Some will give their opinion of the health care system but when the facts are shown to counter those opinions the discussion is SHUT DOWN. The part I don't agree with is that they do it to not chance a disagreement. As I have never seen where nasty name calling stops a disagreement it may distract the topic but it never stops the disagreement. If they would just debate the facts presented and stop the name calling maybe something would happen to fit the problems BUT. :? :roll:
 
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