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Bill

Well-known member
The Grinch from Billings
Colorado Springs, CO Dec. 29, 2006

While you were enjoying the holidays, R-CALF presented everyone with its warped idea of a Christmas present. It filed its brief with the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals the day after Christmas. Its goal? Getting the Canadian border closed, jeopardizing exports and attacking consumer confidence -- again.

The 47-page brief lists every legal or federal rulemaking technicality R-CALF’s lawyers could conjure up as one part of a strategy to reopen the case. The other part is to convince the court that the BSE issue is so highly technical and complex and there is so much new science since the original 2005 Billings District Court hearing, that the court just has to examine this new information. Not to mention the 12,000 pages of Administrative Record the Ninth didn’t consider in its original decision.

R-CALF’s goal is to get the case reopened in either the Eighth District Court in Billings or the Ninth Appeals, resulting in overturning USDA’s Final Rule and closing the border.

As for not being allowed to present all the science, R-CALF could not even fill its original 34- page injunction brief with scientific fact. The document was replete with speculation, unfounded extrapolation and unproven, un-replicated scientific theory. If time has proven anything, it is that some of the far-out theories about BSE transmission routes, like saliva, would have produced thousands of BSE cases by now if they were factual. Instead, experience has confirmed science.

As for new relevant science, the deciding facts haven’t changed. Cattle under 30-months of age don’t carry BSE-infective material. Canada is not an exploding minefield of BSE-infected cattle. BSE is spread through feed containing BSE infective material and feed bans of ruminant material fed to ruminants break that link. BSE surveillance programs monitor the prevalence of BSE in cow herds and have nothing to do with human food safety. SRM removal protects humans from the already infinitesimal chance of infection. There is nothing that would overturn the world’s nearly 20-year body of fact.

While R-CALF is desperately trying to convince the court there is compelling new data – after the fact – it conveniently neglects to mention other “new information.” Its supposed primary reason for the case is null and void. It had proclaimed its goal to be to prevent the introduction of BSE into the U.S. herd. Time has proven we already had it.

If the facts haven’t changed and R-CALF is reduced to parading technicalities to resurrect the case, why is R-CALF so intent on flogging this dead horse?

There are several apparent reasons. For one, they hate foreign imports and will go to any lengths to stop them. For another, they care little for export markets and could care less if mishandling import trade jeopardizes exports. They feel the domestic market is more than enough challenge for them to handle. Our market is demanding, shifting and competitive. Their railing against most of the free market system’s attempts to innovate and adapt prove they feel overwhelmed and perhaps inadequate to cope with those changes. They see no harm in foregoing billions in export value, because they cannot comprehend how such money trickles back to cow/calf operators. If they can’t see it short-term, it follows they can’t see how limiting the American beef industry to four percent of the world’s consumers is long-term suicide. How could they think eliminating 96 percent of their market would lead to profitability?"

There may be some technicalities the Ninth could use to reopen, if looking for excuses. R-CALF’s attorneys have painstakingly hunted down cases that supposedly provide precedents for either court to re- open.

The Ninth’s 54-page opinion was thorough, with an accurate grasp of the science the last time. Since science hasn’t changed, we hope the Ninth lets sleeping dogs lie and keeps closed one of the more ignominious chapters in industry history.

It is possible that R-CALF and a misled, different and sympathetic court panel could conjure up flaming headlines of a “cover-up.” After all, this is the San Francisco-based Ninth. Sensational headlines could induce unjustified and unreasoned panic in a public already sensitized by recent E. coli food problems. Global customers, jittery and looking for excuses, could react. Consumer confidence – always a fragile thing – is at risk.

Knowing that risk, R-CALF has answered, “Let’s go for it!”
 

TimH

Well-known member
:D :D :D :D :D

Does R-Calf's (on) crack legal team charge by the hour or are they on a result-based flat-rate???? :roll: :roll:
Looks like you R-calfers might have to have a few more "bend-over".... er,uh..... I mean "roll-over" calf auctions and scare up a few buck$ to pay them thar laywers.
Good Luck!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
 

TimH

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Follow a clown and you'll be a clown.

"Your choice, R-CALF or go farther down the same road."

Who are you following these days, Sandhusker??? Bill (Boffo) Bullard??
Leo(Spanky)McDonnell?? Or, my personal favorite, Denni$(Dumbo, let's not sell older cattle)McDonald??? He's a lawyer as well isn't he???
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Cue the caliope.........and pass the corn-dogs and cotton candy.

R-Carnival. Your choice, or go fart down the same road. :D

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
TimH said:
:D :D :D :D :D

Does R-Calf's (on) crack legal team charge by the hour or are they on a result-based flat-rate???? :roll: :roll:
Looks like you R-calfers might have to have a few more "bend-over".... er,uh..... I mean "roll-over" calf auctions and scare up a few buck$ to pay them thar laywers.
Good Luck!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Looks to me like the Canadians started bending over for the AMI/Packer crew several years ago (remember the Packer BSE payoff) and now you like it so much you're pimping for them....

Sorry if it upsets you that some American producers won't drop their drawers and sell out for a quarter a flop :wink: :lol:
 

TimH

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
TimH said:
:D :D :D :D :D

Does R-Calf's (on) crack legal team charge by the hour or are they on a result-based flat-rate???? :roll: :roll:
Looks like you R-calfers might have to have a few more "bend-over".... er,uh..... I mean "roll-over" calf auctions and scare up a few buck$ to pay them thar laywers.
Good Luck!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Looks to me like the Canadians started bending over for the AMI/Packer crew several years ago (remember the Packer BSE payoff) and now you like it so much you're pimping for them....

Sorry if it upsets you that some American producers won't drop their drawers and sell out for a quarter a flop :wink: :lol:

:D :D :D
Chirp, chirp chirp. Which is it Dick....... by the hour or flat rate???? :D :D
Even a quarter a flop is better than paying for the "privilege" like they do in Montana. I'm thinking of investing in a proctolgy business in Billings....... Major growth potential!!!! :D
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
TimH said:
Oldtimer said:
TimH said:
:D :D :D :D :D

Does R-Calf's (on) crack legal team charge by the hour or are they on a result-based flat-rate???? :roll: :roll:
Looks like you R-calfers might have to have a few more "bend-over".... er,uh..... I mean "roll-over" calf auctions and scare up a few buck$ to pay them thar laywers.
Good Luck!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Looks to me like the Canadians started bending over for the AMI/Packer crew several years ago (remember the Packer BSE payoff) and now you like it so much you're pimping for them....

Sorry if it upsets you that some American producers won't drop their drawers and sell out for a quarter a flop :wink: :lol:

:D :D :D
Chirp, chirp chirp. Which is it Dick....... by the hour or flat rate???? :D :D
Even a quarter a flop is better than paying for the "privilege" like they do in Montana. I'm thinking of investing in a proctolgy business in Billings....... Major growth potential!!!! :D

Well Timmy-- if you Canucks can't even agree on what causes it, or how its transmitted, it sounds to me like the "science" needs to be looked at for a few more years before we send stuff back and forth anymore and possibly cause a (metal, radiologic, UFO :roll: ) transmitted epidemic...

We have heard Bills, kaisers, Kathy's theory-- Whats yours or do you just chirp too......We know you don't believe in CFIA's from your previous statements.....
 

TimH

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
TimH said:
Oldtimer said:
Looks to me like the Canadians started bending over for the AMI/Packer crew several years ago (remember the Packer BSE payoff) and now you like it so much you're pimping for them....

Sorry if it upsets you that some American producers won't drop their drawers and sell out for a quarter a flop :wink: :lol:

:D :D :D
Chirp, chirp chirp. Which is it Dick....... by the hour or flat rate???? :D :D
Even a quarter a flop is better than paying for the "privilege" like they do in Montana. I'm thinking of investing in a proctolgy business in Billings....... Major growth potential!!!! :D

Well Timmy-- if you Canucks can't even agree on what causes it, or how its transmitted, it sounds to me like the "science" needs to be looked at for a few more years before we send stuff back and forth anymore and possibly cause a (metal, radiologic, UFO :roll: ) transmitted epidemic...

We have heard Bills, kaisers, Kathy's theory-- Whats yours or do you just chirp too......We know you don't believe in CFIA's from your previous statements.....
No chirping here ,Dick. Only asking if you, as an R-calf member, are aware of how your lawyers bill for their services...... by the hour?....or result-based flat-rate. Since you are paying for it, I would assume that you would know. Am I wrong??? Hourly....or flat-rate, Dick??? :D
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
TimH said:
Oldtimer said:
TimH said:
:D :D :D
Chirp, chirp chirp. Which is it Dick....... by the hour or flat rate???? :D :D
Even a quarter a flop is better than paying for the "privilege" like they do in Montana. I'm thinking of investing in a proctolgy business in Billings....... Major growth potential!!!! :D

Well Timmy-- if you Canucks can't even agree on what causes it, or how its transmitted, it sounds to me like the "science" needs to be looked at for a few more years before we send stuff back and forth anymore and possibly cause a (metal, radiologic, UFO :roll: ) transmitted epidemic...

We have heard Bills, kaisers, Kathy's theory-- Whats yours or do you just chirp too......We know you don't believe in CFIA's from your previous statements.....
No chirping here ,Dick. Only asking if you, as an R-calf member, are aware of how your lawyers bill for their services...... by the hour?....or result-based flat-rate. Since you are paying for it, I would assume that you would know. Am I wrong??? Hourly....or flat-rate, Dick??? :D

I really could care less-- as long as the R-CALF leadership is getting done what I want-- like getting the M-COOL law running so Canucks can't have their free ride anymore....

Does it bother you that much that consumers might actually know its from Canada :???:
 

TimH

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
TimH said:
Oldtimer said:
Well Timmy-- if you Canucks can't even agree on what causes it, or how its transmitted, it sounds to me like the "science" needs to be looked at for a few more years before we send stuff back and forth anymore and possibly cause a (metal, radiologic, UFO :roll: ) transmitted epidemic...

We have heard Bills, kaisers, Kathy's theory-- Whats yours or do you just chirp too......We know you don't believe in CFIA's from your previous statements.....
No chirping here ,Dick. Only asking if you, as an R-calf member, are aware of how your lawyers bill for their services...... by the hour?....or result-based flat-rate. Since you are paying for it, I would assume that you would know. Am I wrong??? Hourly....or flat-rate, Dick??? :D

I really could care less-- as long as the R-CALF leadership is getting done what I want-- like getting the M-COOL law running so Canucks can't have their free ride anymore....

Does it bother you that much that consumers might actually know its from Canada :???:

Are you admitting that,as a dues paying R-Calf member, that you really have no idea about how your money is being spent??? Hourly or flat rate??
What does this latest court challenge have to do with M-COOL??
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Are you admitting that,as a dues paying R-Calf member, that you really have no idea about how your money is being spent??? Hourly or flat rate??
What does this latest court challenge have to do with M-COOL??

Oh I've seen figures on costs-- but never asked for a minute to minute breakdown...Most attorneys bill both ways, depending on the task...

Simple-- Canada wants to send down higher risk meat/cattle for slaughter--which will without M-COOL be passed off to consumers as US beef under the current rules....Because of the increase in danger, they have the right to know if this is higher risk Canadian origin meat and make an informed choice for themselves if they want to take that risk...
 

TimH

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Are you admitting that,as a dues paying R-Calf member, that you really have no idea about how your money is being spent??? Hourly or flat rate??
What does this latest court challenge have to do with M-COOL??

Oh I've seen figures on costs-- but never asked for a minute to minute breakdown...Most attorneys bill both ways, depending on the task...
Simple-- Canada wants to send down higher risk meat/cattle for slaughter--which will without M-COOL be passed off to consumers as US beef under the current rules....Because of the increase in danger, they have the right to know if this is higher risk Canadian origin meat and make an informed choice for themselves if they want to take that risk...

Good job on slithering...... Let me put it this way.....if this latest court challenge fails, will R-calf's lawyers still be paid??? or will they get nothing??? :D
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
TimH said:
Oldtimer said:
Are you admitting that,as a dues paying R-Calf member, that you really have no idea about how your money is being spent??? Hourly or flat rate??
What does this latest court challenge have to do with M-COOL??

Oh I've seen figures on costs-- but never asked for a minute to minute breakdown...Most attorneys bill both ways, depending on the task...
Simple-- Canada wants to send down higher risk meat/cattle for slaughter--which will without M-COOL be passed off to consumers as US beef under the current rules....Because of the increase in danger, they have the right to know if this is higher risk Canadian origin meat and make an informed choice for themselves if they want to take that risk...

Good job on slithering...... Let me put it this way.....if this latest court challenge fails, will R-calf's lawyers still be paid??? or will they get nothing??? :D

What do you care?
 

ocm

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Are you admitting that,as a dues paying R-Calf member, that you really have no idea about how your money is being spent??? Hourly or flat rate??
What does this latest court challenge have to do with M-COOL??

Oh I've seen figures on costs-- but never asked for a minute to minute breakdown...Most attorneys bill both ways, depending on the task...

Simple-- Canada wants to send down higher risk meat/cattle for slaughter--which will without M-COOL be passed off to consumers as US beef under the current rules....Because of the increase in danger, they have the right to know if this is higher risk Canadian origin meat and make an informed choice for themselves if they want to take that risk...

I've seen the costs. I'm cool with them. I think it's worth a lot to make the USDA follow its own rules. I hate government agencies to make up the rules as they go along.
 

ocm

Well-known member
Although I must say that I didn't think the costs were very much at all, considering what many lawyers charge.
 

Bill

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
TimH said:
Oldtimer said:
Looks to me like the Canadians started bending over for the AMI/Packer crew several years ago (remember the Packer BSE payoff) and now you like it so much you're pimping for them....

Sorry if it upsets you that some American producers won't drop their drawers and sell out for a quarter a flop :wink: :lol:

:D :D :D
Chirp, chirp chirp. Which is it Dick....... by the hour or flat rate???? :D :D
Even a quarter a flop is better than paying for the "privilege" like they do in Montana. I'm thinking of investing in a proctolgy business in Billings....... Major growth potential!!!! :D

Well Timmy-- if you Canucks can't even agree on what causes it, or how its transmitted, it sounds to me like the "science" needs to be looked at for a few more years before we send stuff back and forth anymore and possibly cause a (metal, radiologic, UFO :roll: ) transmitted epidemic...

We have heard Bills, kaisers, Kathy's theory-- Whats yours or do you just chirp too......We know you don't believe in CFIA's from your previous statements.....
And exactly what theory is it you have heard from Bill?????
 

Tam

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
TimH said:
Oldtimer said:
Looks to me like the Canadians started bending over for the AMI/Packer crew several years ago (remember the Packer BSE payoff) and now you like it so much you're pimping for them....

Sorry if it upsets you that some American producers won't drop their drawers and sell out for a quarter a flop :wink: :lol:

:D :D :D
Chirp, chirp chirp. Which is it Dick....... by the hour or flat rate???? :D :D
Even a quarter a flop is better than paying for the "privilege" like they do in Montana. I'm thinking of investing in a proctolgy business in Billings....... Major growth potential!!!! :D

Well Timmy-- if you Canucks can't even agree on what causes it, or how its transmitted, it sounds to me like the "science" needs to be looked at for a few more years before we send stuff back and forth anymore and possibly cause a (metal, radiologic, UFO :roll: ) transmitted epidemic...

We have heard Bills, kaisers, Kathy's theory-- Whats yours or do you just chirp too......We know you don't believe in CFIA's from your previous statements.....
Few questions for you Oldtimer

1. What caused the BSE in the US?
2. Has anyone come to a conclusion on where the Texas and Alabama cows came into contact with BSE?

Funny how R-CALF can fight imports due to the unknowns of BSE then turn around and support exporting your beef when you have NO ANSWERS TO CAUSE, TRANSMISSION OR RISK FROM YOUR BSE CASES !!!

You and R-CALF seem to think that the US consumers will be loyal to the US product if M'COOL is enacted BUT

3. How can you be so sure that US Consumers will eat US beef after R-CALF gets done proving the USDA doesn't care about the safety of the food they eat ?

4. How many other US products have the US consumers been loyal to when it comes to value for their dollar?

Come on Oldtimer If our beef is unsafe due to the unknowns, then so is yours as there are far more unknowns about yours. Has R-CALF done anything to stop the exporting of your beef until the truth is known? I think NOT. Has Dennis done anything about his 20 month resolution to protect US consumers? I think NOT. Just how many consumers are you willing to risk the lives of until you know where your BSE came from and how it is transmitted? Funny how it is business as usual in the US but all other countries are to pay through the nose with demands for definitive answers, ban exports and new stronger regulations to protect herds and consumers. When do you think the US producers with be living up to what the rest of us have to to remain in Global Trading?
 

Kato

Well-known member
If I was a Cargill executive, this is what I'd be thinking right now.

1. MCool comes in.

2. American feedlots and small packers stop buying Canadian live cattle.

3. Canadian cattle prices drop.

4. Cargill and American friends double or triple Canadian capacity. Maybe even buy up a few feedlots for cheap.

5. R-Calf succeeds in seeding doubt about the USDA in the minds of
American consumers.

6. Cargill launches huge media campaign touting the higher safety standards of the Canadian packing system.

7. Mrs. U.S. consumer turns from unsafe USDA approved beef that has been processed using old unsafe technology, to buying state of the art processed Canadian beef that costs much less.

8. She finds she likes it. So she buys more.

9. American cattle producers have lost packing plants. Canadian cattle producers are mostly broke.

10. RCalf lawyers still have their BMW's and Poersches. So do the boys at Cargill.

:roll: :oops: :oops: :oops:

R.. Ranchers
C.. Caring
A...About
L...Lawyers'
F...Futures
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Kato- Tam- Bill-- If you truly think that will be the result of the M-COOL law going into effect-- then why are you so worried about it :???: EH

Canucks wouldn't be whinin, cryin, or bitchin so much about M-COOL and the US consumers being told the truth, if they didn't know that its going to stop their free ride on the US producers shirttails and slow up their little gravy train ride...Someday you have to go out in the big real world on your own without big brother holding your hand......
 
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