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More ' good' news for the economy......

Larrry

Well-known member
The courts have consistently ruled that the police do not have an obligation to protect individuals, only the public in general. For example, in Warren v. D.C. the court stated "courts have without exception concluded that when a municipality or other governmental entity undertakes to furnish police services, it assumes a duty only to the public at large and not to individual members of the community."

Former Florida Attorney General Jim Smith told Florida legislators that police responded to only about 200,000 of 700,000 calls for help to Dade County authorities. Smith was asked why so many citizens in Dade County were buying guns and he said, "They damn well better, they've got to protect themselves."

The Department of Justice found that in 1989, there were 168,881 crimes of violence which were not responded to by police within 1 hour.

The numbers clearly show that the police cannot protect every individual. In 1996, there were about 150,000 police officers on duty at any one time to protect a population of more than 260 million Americans -- or more than 1,700 citizens per officer.
 

Larrry

Well-known member
The Court's Decision: Appellants Carolyn Warren, Miriam Douglas, and Joan Taliaferro in No. 79-6, and appellant Wilfred Nichol in No. 79-394 sued the District of Columbia and individual members of the Metropolitan Police Department for negligent failure to provide adequate police services. The respective trial judges held that the police were under no specific legal duty to provide protection to the individual appellants and dismissed the complaints for failure to state a claim upon which relief could be granted. Super.Ct.Civ.R. 12(b)(6). However, in a split decision a three-judge division of this court determined that appellants Warren, Taliaferro and Nichol were owed a special duty of care by the police department and reversed the trial court rulings.

The division unanimously concluded that appellant Douglas failed to fit within the class of persons to whom a special duty was owed, and affirmed the lower court's dismissal of her complaint. The court en banc, on petitions for rehearing, vacated the panel's decision. After rearguments, notwithstanding our sympathy for appellants who were the tragic victims of despicable criminal acts, we affirm the judgments of dismissal.
 

hopalong

Well-known member
Just for CA

A. Guns save more lives than they take; prevent more injuries than they inflict

* Guns used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year -- or about 6,850 times a day.1 This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.2
* Of the 2.5 million times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, the overwhelming majority merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8% of the time, a citizen will kill or wound his/her attacker.3
* As many as 200,000 women use a gun every year to defend themselves against sexual abuse.4
* Even anti-gun Clinton researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense. According to the Clinton Justice Department, there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense every year. The National Institute of Justice published this figure in 1997 as part of "Guns in America" -- a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.5
* Armed citizens kill more crooks than do the police. Citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as police do every year (1,527 to 606).6 And readers of Newsweek learned that "only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The 'error rate' for the police, however, was 11 percent, more than five times as high."7
* Handguns are the weapon of choice for self-defense. Citizens use handguns to protect themselves over 1.9 million times a year.8 Many of these self-defense handguns could be labeled as "Saturday Night Specials."
B. Concealed carry laws help reduce crime

* Nationwide: one-half million self-defense uses. Every year, as many as one-half million citizens defend themselves with a firearm away from home.9 *

Concealed carry laws are dropping crime rates across the country. A comprehensive national study determined in 1996 that violent crime fell after states made it legal to carry concealed firearms. The results of the study showed:
* States which passed concealed carry laws reduced their murder rate by 8.5%, rapes by 5%, aggravated assaults by 7% and robbery by 3%;10
and
* If those states not having concealed carry laws had adopted such laws in 1992, then approximately 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes, 60,000 aggravated assaults and over 11,000 robberies would have been avoided yearly.11
* Vermont: one of the safest five states in the country. In Vermont, citizens can carry a firearm without getting permission... without paying a fee... or without going through any kind of government-imposed waiting period. And yet for ten years in a row, Vermont has remained one of the top-five, safest states in the union -- having three times received the "Safest State Award."12
* Florida: concealed carry helps slash the murder rates in the state. In the fifteen years following the passage of Florida's concealed carry law in 1987, over 800,000 permits to carry firearms were issued to people in the state.13 FBI reports show that the homicide rate in Florida, which in 1987 was much higher than the national average, fell 52% during that 15-year period -- thus putting the Florida rate below the national average. 14
* Do firearms carry laws result in chaos? No. Consider the case of Florida. A citizen in the Sunshine State is far more likely to be attacked by an alligator than to be assaulted by a concealed carry holder. 1. During the first fifteen years that the Florida law was in effect, alligator attacks outpaced the number of crimes committed by carry holders by a 229 to 155 margin.
2. And even the 155 "crimes" committed by concealed carry permit holders are somewhat misleading as most of these infractions resulted from Floridians who accidentally carried their firearms into restricted areas, such as an airport.15
C. Criminals avoid armed citizens

* Kennesaw, GA. In 1982, this suburb of Atlanta passed a law requiring heads of households to keep at least one firearm in the house. The residential burglary rate subsequently dropped 89% in Kennesaw, compared to the modest 10.4% drop in Georgia as a whole.16
* Ten years later (1991), the residential burglary rate in Kennesaw was still 72% lower than it had been in 1981, before the law was passed.17
* Nationwide. Statistical comparisons with other countries show that burglars in the United States are far less apt to enter an occupied home than their foreign counterparts who live in countries where fewer civilians own firearms. Consider the following rates showing how often a homeowner is present when a burglar strikes:
* Homeowner occupancy rate in the gun control countries of Great Britain, Canada and Netherlands: 45% (average of the three countries); and,
* Homeowner occupancy rate in the United States: 12.7%.18
Rapes averted when women carry or use firearms for protection
* Orlando, FL. In 1966-67, the media highly publicized a safety course which taught Orlando women how to use guns. The result: Orlando's rape rate dropped 88% in 1967, whereas the rape rate remained constant in the rest of Florida and the nation.19
* Nationwide. In 1979, the Carter Justice Department found that of more than 32,000 attempted rapes, 32% were actually committed. But when a woman was armed with a gun or knife, only 3% of the attempted rapes were actually successful.20
Justice Department study:
* 3/5 of felons polled agreed that "a criminal is not going to mess around with a victim he knows is armed with a gun."21
* 74% of felons polled agreed that "one reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot during the crime."22
* 57% of felons polled agreed that "criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police."23

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, "Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense With a Gun," 86 The Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Northwestern University School of Law, 1 (Fall 1995):164.
Dr. Kleck is a professor in the school of criminology and criminal justice at Florida State University in Tallahassee. He has researched extensively and published several essays on the gun control issue. His book, Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America, has become a widely cited source in the gun control debate. In fact, this book earned Dr. Kleck the prestigious American Society of Criminology Michael J. Hindelang award for 1993. This award is given for the book published in the past two to three years that makes the most outstanding contribution to criminology.
Even those who don't like the conclusions Dr. Kleck reaches, cannot argue with his impeccable research and methodology. In "A Tribute to a View I Have Opposed," Marvin E. Wolfgang writes that, "What troubles me is the article by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz. The reason I am troubled is that they have provided an almost clear-cut case of methodologically sound research in support of something I have theoretically opposed for years, namely, the use of a gun in defense against a criminal perpetrator.... I have to admit my admiration for the care and caution expressed in this article and this research. Can it be true that about two million instances occur each year in which a gun was used as a defensive measure against crime? It is hard to believe. Yet, it is hard to challenge the data collected. We do not have contrary evidence." Wolfgang, "A Tribute to a View I Have Opposed," The Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, at 188.
Wolfgang says there is no "contrary evidence." Indeed, there are more than a dozen national polls -- one of which was conducted by The Los Angeles Times -- that have found figures comparable to the Kleck-Gertz study. Even the Clinton Justice Department (through the National Institute of Justice) found there were as many as 1.5 million defensive users of firearms every year. See National Institute of Justice, "Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms," Research in Brief (May 1997).
As for Dr. Kleck, readers of his materials may be interested to know that he is a member of the ACLU, Amnesty International USA, and Common Cause. He is not and has never been a member of or contributor to any advocacy group on either side of the gun control debate.
2 According to the National Safety Council, the total number of gun deaths (by accidents, suicides and homicides) account for less than 30,000 deaths per year. See Injury Facts, published yearly by the National Safety Council, Itasca, Illinois.
3Kleck and Gertz, "Armed Resistance to Crime," at 173, 185.
4Kleck and Gertz, "Armed Resistance to Crime," at 185.
5 Philip J. Cook and Jens Ludwig, "Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms," NIJ Research in Brief (May 1997); available at http://www.ncjrs.org/txtfiles/165476.txt on the internet. The finding of 1.5 million yearly self-defense cases did not sit well with the anti-gun bias of the study's authors, who attempted to explain why there could not possibly be one and a half million cases of self-defense every year. Nevertheless, the 1.5 million figure is consistent with a mountain of independent surveys showing similar figures. The sponsors of these studies -- nearly a dozen -- are quite varied, and include anti-gun organizations, news media organizations, governments and commercial polling firms. See also Kleck and Gertz, supra note 1, pp. 182-183.
6Kleck, Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America, (1991):111-116, 148.
7George F. Will, "Are We 'a Nation of Cowards'?," Newsweek (15 November 1993):93.
8Id. at 164, 185.
9Dr. Gary Kleck, interview with J. Neil Schulman, "Q and A: Guns, crime and self-defense," The Orange County Register (19 September 1993). In the interview with Schulman, Dr. Kleck reports on findings from a national survey which he and Dr. Marc Gertz conducted in Spring, 1993 -- a survey which findings were reported in Kleck and Gertz, "Armed Resistance to Crime." br>10 One of the authors of the University of Chicago study reported on the study's findings in John R. Lott, Jr., "More Guns, Less Violent Crime," The Wall Street Journal (28 August 1996). See also John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, "Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns," University of Chicago (15 August 1996); and Lott, More Guns, Less Crime (1998, 2000).
11Lott and Mustard, "Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns."
12Kathleen O'Leary Morgan, Scott Morgan and Neal Quitno, "Rankings of States in Most Dangerous/Safest State Awards 1994 to 2003," Morgan Quitno Press (2004) at http://www.statestats.com/dang9403.htm. Morgan Quitno Press is an independent private research and publishing company which was founded in 1989. The company specializes in reference books and monthly reports that compare states and cities in several different subject areas. In the first 10 years in which they published their Safest State Award, Vermont has consistently remained one of the top five safest states.
13Memo by Jim Smith, Secretary of State, Florida Department of State, Division of Licensing, Concealed Weapons/Firearms License Statistical Report (October 1, 2002).
14Florida's murder rate was 11.4 per 100,000 in 1987, but only 5.5 in 2002. Compare Federal Bureau of Investigation, "Crime in the United States," Uniform Crime Reports, (1988): 7, 53; and FBI, (2003):19, 79.
15 John R. Lott, Jr., "Right to carry would disprove horror stories," Kansas City Star, (July 12, 2003).
16Gary Kleck, "Crime Control Through the Private Use of Armed Force," Social Problems 35 (February 1988):15.
17Compare Kleck, "Crime Control," at 15, and Chief Dwaine L. Wilson, City of Kennesaw Police Department, "Month to Month Statistics: 1991." (Residential burglary rates from 1981-1991 are based on statistics for the months of March - October.)
18Kleck, Point Blank, at 140.
19Kleck, "Crime Control," at 13.
20U.S. Department of Justice, Law Enforcement Assistance Administration, Rape Victimization in 26 American Cities (1979), p. 31.
21U.S., Department of Justice, National Institute of Justice, "The Armed Criminal in America: A Survey of Incarcerated Felons," Research Report (July 1985): 27.
22Id.
23Id.


Rebuttal CA????
 

CattleArmy

Well-known member
Hops:

maxine-15.jpg




Oh and please:

maxinex.jpg
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
CattleArm said:
The part that nobody ever seems to bring into the equation is that sometimes the perpentrator takes the gun and uses it on the person who had it in the first place.

I'd hate to live where I felt I had to pack heat in order for my family and myself to be safe.

That is why you have the freedom not to carry if you wish! Millions of victims over the years have exercised that same right as you have chosen!
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
CattleArmy said:
Larry I have read fact over fact about conceal and carry as many here have very strong opinions on the fact I just still carry the opinion that I'm against it.

:clap:

Cattlearmy-- according to this group that is something that you can't do-- actually "think for yourself" and have an "opinion" - if its counter to their cultist teachings... :wink:

According to Neocons- you're suppose to choose a cultist group and only do what the cult leader tells you to... :wink: :lol: :(

I don't agree with your opinion to concealed carry- but I'll fight to the death to defend your right to have that opinion- and to be able to freely express it...

OT does that make you a Neocon? You come on here and disagree with people all the time. Does that make you part of a cultist group?

This is a message board for debating political views, Cattlearmy comes on here and tells us her view, we disagree or agree. We debate those views that is what this type of forum is for! That does not make us a cultist or neocon because we do not agree with her views and chose not to accept them. It does not make us a cultist or neocon to voice opposition to her views, it makes us a member of a Political message board.

Never understood the cry babying behind people that come to a political message board and then get upset when people argue against their views. That is what we are here for!

Difference in Liberal and Conservatives in disagree on this subject is that Liberals do not want to carry guns and do not want any of us to carry guns. Conservatives do not care if they carry or not, they just want that right. We do not try to make a liberal carry a gun that is their choice to do so or not do so. If we do not try to force them to carry one, why is it right for them to restrict us from doing so?
 

hopalong

Well-known member
:agree:

Oh CA? Remember when you fot all over me for using someone elses words when refering to a statemnt made. well then it looks like you are a hyopcrite because you are using all those cute little postiings directed at me :D :D :D :D :D
Lose your own tounge?
 

CattleArmy

Well-known member
hopalong said:
:agree:

Oh CA? Remember when you fot all over me for using someone elses words when refering to a statemnt made. well then it looks like you are a hyopcrite because you are using all those cute little postiings directed at me :D :D :D :D :D
Lose your own tounge?


Nope I just decided not to respond to someone as insignificant to the board as you are. Plus someone that can make excuses and be proud of lieing to the other members on the board. Or messing with everyone not having the guts or the gonads to insult others in a childish manner with just one name. I was trying to follow some advice about not saying anything if I couldn't say something nice but you asked me if I lost my tounge and no as you can read I haven't.

P.S. I have yet to see anyone but me use Maxine.
 

CattleArmy

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
CattleArm said:
The part that nobody ever seems to bring into the equation is that sometimes the perpentrator takes the gun and uses it on the person who had it in the first place.

I'd hate to live where I felt I had to pack heat in order for my family and myself to be safe.

That is why you have the freedom not to carry if you wish! Millions of victims over the years have exercised that same right as you have chosen!

You can protect yourself without a gun. Sometimes simply by looking whoever is going to attack in the face. Attackers don't want to be recognized and they want easy prey. Kicking in the gonads or pinching the flesh on the back of ones arms are defence plans. I'm not saying every time these will work but for those of us not ready to pack heat I think we are smart enough to be schooled in some self defence.
 

hopalong

Well-known member
CattleArmy said:
hopalong said:
:agree:

Oh CA? Remember when you fot all over me for using someone elses words when refering to a statemnt made. well then it looks like you are a hyopcrite because you are using all those cute little postiings directed at me :D :D :D :D :D
Lose your own tounge?


Nope I just decided not to respond to someone as insignificant to the board as you are. Plus someone that can make excuses and be proud of lieing to the other members on the board. Or messing with everyone not having the guts or the gonads to insult others in a childish manner with just one name. I was trying to follow some advice about not saying anything if I couldn't say something nice but you asked me if I lost my tounge and no as you can read I haven't.

P.S. I have yet to see anyone but me use Maxine.

So by using Maxine you are using your OWN words???
When I used someone elses words you had a tissy!

Then you are a hypocrite based on the very words you typed, that i placed in bold!
If I am so insignificant why are you even responding to my statements?
I this before and no one has yet to answer it. How can I be lying if I admit to have used the names hopalong,snoopy and quickdraw
Where is you indignation over another fine upstanding member that has and still is using more than one name? Could it be because that person is a liberal???????? YEP HYPROCRITE!


Just in case you need a defination.

Main Entry: hyp·o·crite
Pronunciation: \ˈhi-pə-ˌkrit\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English ypocrite, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin hypocrita, from Greek hypokritēs actor, hypocrite, from hypokrinesthai
Date: 13th century
1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings — hypocrite adjective
 

CattleArmy

Well-known member
sayings-2.jpg



Are you not enough as a person you felt you had to lie to the board or were you just another internet sicko messing with people?






Hops and most importantly of all:

pb2.jpg





Say what you will about me I could give a if you see kay less.

quote.jpg
 

hopalong

Well-known member
CattleArmy said:
sayings-2.jpg



Are you not enough as a person you felt you had to lie to the board or were you just another internet sicko messing with people?






Hops and most importantly of all:

pb2.jpg

Show me the lie??????
 

CattleArmy

Well-known member
hopalong said:
CattleArmy said:
sayings-2.jpg



Are you not enough as a person you felt you had to lie to the board or were you just another internet sicko messing with people?






Hops and most importantly of all:

pb2.jpg

Show me the lie??????


When you posted as snoopy about being tired of the crap ummm do you recall that?????
 

hopalong

Well-known member
CattleArmy said:
sayings-2.jpg



Are you not enough as a person you felt you had to lie to the board or were you just another internet sicko messing with people?






Hops and most importantly of all:

pb2.jpg





Say what you will about me I could give a if you see kay less.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n305/sahamara/Sayings/quote.jpg
Show me the lie or use your own words

[img]http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk69/l11cc84/pb2.jpg :roll: :roll:
 

hopalong

Well-known member
CattleArmy said:
hopalong said:
CattleArmy said:
sayings-2.jpg



Are you not enough as a person you felt you had to lie to the board or were you just another internet sicko messing with people?






Hops and most importantly of all:

pb2.jpg

Show me the lie??????


When you posted as snoopy about being tired of the crap ummm do you recall that?????

Yep and it wasn't a lie!!!!
NEXT!!!!
 

nonothing

Well-known member
CattleArmy said:
hopalong said:
CattleArmy said:
When you posted as snoopy about being tired of the crap ummm do you recall that?????

Yep and it wasn't a lie!!!!
NEXT!!!!


It is a lie to the other posters on the board when one gets a new name and posts under it lieing to everyone about identity.

Hopalong you make me laugh.you been lieing here for so long that,like OT has suggested........maybe your starting to believe you own lies.....That and all you do is follow other posters around here..You have no sac,your just a wanna be hero..Not one person other than your own alter egos has ever come to your defence here....Now just leave the good folks of ranchers alone and go see about some medication for your multiple personality dissorder......
 

nonothing

Well-known member
hopalong said:
CattleArmy said:
hopalong said:
:agree:

Oh CA? Remember when you fot all over me for using someone elses words when refering to a statemnt made. well then it looks like you are a hyopcrite because you are using all those cute little postiings directed at me :D :D :D :D :D
Lose your own tounge?


Nope I just decided not to respond to someone as insignificant to the board as you are. Plus someone that can make excuses and be proud of lieing to the other members on the board. Or messing with everyone not having the guts or the gonads to insult others in a childish manner with just one name. I was trying to follow some advice about not saying anything if I couldn't say something nice but you asked me if I lost my tounge and no as you can read I haven't.

P.S. I have yet to see anyone but me use Maxine.

So by using Maxine you are using your OWN words???
When I used someone elses words you had a tissy!

Then you are a hypocrite based on the very words you typed, that i placed in bold!
If I am so insignificant why are you even responding to my statements?
I this before and no one has yet to answer it. How can I be lying if I admit to have used the names hopalong,snoopy and quickdraw
Where is you indignation over another fine upstanding member that has and still is using more than one name? Could it be because that person is a liberal???????? YEP HYPROCRITE!


Just in case you need a defination.

Main Entry: hyp·o·crite
Pronunciation: \ˈhi-pə-ˌkrit\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English ypocrite, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin hypocrita, from Greek hypokritēs actor, hypocrite, from hypokrinesthai
Date: 13th century
1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings — hypocrite adjective


Main Entry: hyp·o·crite
Pronunciation: \ˈhi-pə-ˌkrit\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English ypocrite, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin hypocrita, from Greek hypokritēs actor, hypocrite, from hypokrinesthai
Date: 13th century
1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings — hypocrite adjective;
3 : a person who uses several different Identities to help make themselves look better through lies and deceitful behavior...see full definition below


Main Entry: de·ceit·ful
Pronunciation: \-fəl\
Function: adjective
Date: 15th century
: having a tendency or disposition to deceive: a: not honest <a deceitful child> b: deceptive, misleading <deceitful advertising>
2: the author named Hopalong on ranchers net...<missleading posts writen in many of his differnt names>
 

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