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More "inflammatory language" for MRJ

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Oklahoma Attorney General Joins Colleagues to Warn Justice Department That JBS Deal Could Harm Cattle Producers, Consumers

Billings, Mont. – R-CALF USA Oklahoma Membership Chair Wayne Foley said he was pleased to see that Oklahoma Attorney General W.A. Drew Edmondson had joined other state attorneys general to warn the U.S. Department of Justice that the proposed transactions by Brazilian-owned JBS to purchase National Beef Packing Co., Smithfield Beef Group, and Five Rivers Ranch Cattle Feeding likely would harm not only Oklahoma cattle producers, but beef consumers there as well.

“I’ve been corresponding with Mr. Edmondson and sending him our information and I think he’s on our side pretty good,” Foley said today. “We don’t want to sell our cattle producers out to the South Americans. That’s just not the way to go.”

Edmondson’s letter to the Justice Department said because Five Rivers is the largest cattle feeder corporation in the United States, with five of its feedlots in southwest Kansas and the Oklahoma and Texas panhandles, that “after the merger, Oklahoma beef producers could face a packing market with only three competitors. However, one of those competitors, JBS, may have a limited need to buy cattle because of the cattle inventories in Five Rivers’ feedlots.

“In short, this merger…would result in the nation’s largest meat processor exercising control over the nation’s largest feedlot operation. This kind of vertical integration could result in a company that has the power to drive down the prices paid to beef producers while at the same time driving up the prices consumers pay for beef at the grocery store.”

R-CALF USA CEO Bill Bullard said the group will continue to work closely with attorneys general from other states to make certain the Justice Department reaches the right decision, with the interests of U.S. citizens and the nation’s food security first and foremost.

Note: To view Edmondson’s letter in its entirety, visit the “Competition Issues” link at www.r-calfusa.com.

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There's a whole list of different state's attorney generals speaking up against this deal, where is that four-letter group that claims to represent producers? The silence is deafening.
 

mrj

Well-known member
Since when does someone CLAIMING there is a large number of people 'against' something make it a fact.......or make the subject of the 'aginners' true????

Does everyone, or anyone for that matter, believe it impossible that state Attorneys' General might play politics with an issue????


mrj
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
mrj said:
Since when does someone CLAIMING there is a large number of people 'against' something make it a fact.......or make the subject of the 'aginners' true????

Does everyone, or anyone for that matter, believe it impossible that state Attorneys' General might play politics with an issue????


mrj

Since when does someone CLAIMING that water is wet or that coal is black make it a fact?

Do you believe it impossible that a state Attorney General might actually be doing their job?

Why not step up to the plate and refute what these officials are saying.
Tell us how they're wrong and just playing politics. I eagerly await your reply.
 

mrj

Well-known member
SAndbagger, be forewarned, I've been surrounded by three young teenage girls all day and am 'looking forward' to their slumber party all night.........my patience is shot!

Have YOU heard all the evidence, or testimony of what JBS intends to do if their proposed buy-out or merger does go through? I haven't, and I seriously doubt that you have, either.

What is wrong with taking a look at FACTS before condemning business deals? Some people will see opportunity and others will insist the sky is falling.

I would like the plans to be laid out, as much as possible, and hear what some of the successful and knowledgeable cattle producers, government officials, and others who would be affected have to say about the plans before automatically condemning it.

Very possibly an infusion of outside capital could benefit the US cattle and beef businesses in a time when insecurity, political opportunism, and rumor have our economy on edge. The foreign investors would benefit from the lower value of the US dollar at the present as well as from the superior quality US beef, and it seems to me our cattle/beef industry, and our economy would benefit from the investment of other peoples' money.

BTW, what is there to "refute"? They haven't made any concrete statements of issues they oppose in the plans of JBS. Words such as "LIKELY would harm..." or ".....beef producers COULD face...." or "....may have a LIMITED need...." or ".....vertical integrations COULD result in.....".

For the record, I do not yet have an opinion on this proposed merger/acquisition. It seems reasonable to keep an open mind until the facts are known about plans JBS may have in mind.

It may even be possible that the statement attributed to the spokesperson that he believes a reliable source for the superior grain fed produced in the USA is a good investment is true!

mrj
 

Clarencen

Well-known member
It looks to me like to many members on this board are just trying to make personal attacks on the people who have differing views than they have. I would like to see them come clean and put all their beliefs and fears on the table for all to see.
We are presently in uncertain times, high energy costs, food for fuel, mergers that might well impact competition, small margins, lop sided welfare programs, high cost of health care etc.
It looks like the top end, big business, is expanding to rapidly, then on the other hand there is to much money going into the welfare programs that are really taking us no where. While this is all happening a girdle is being placed on the middle class people, these are the people who are expected to run the train. If there are any new opportunities are to be found this is where it will be. If we continue to knock these middle rungs out of the ladder, there will always be a growing welfare class.
I have been doing a little studying on the 1930 depression, we are no where near something like that now. In 1930 42% of the population had incomes under $1500, even then, this was just enough to get by on. By 1933 this was cut about in half. There was money, but those with money prefered to put it under the mattress instead of investing it. They saw what had happened to the big investers during the 1920's.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Clarence, you're right about folks attacking others on this board. I used to tussle with SH but now it is mostly MRJ. Sometimes I catch myself feeling bad about getting on her like I do, but then I say "no, she's an adult and she's empowering those that I see wrecking this whole industry with her posts, contributions, etc...."

There's a hell of a lot at stake today, probably more so than at any other time. If you're going to verbally and financially support those who are risking this industry and then tell me about it and try to influence others as well, I'd like to see a fact or two supporting your position. We had SH trying to back a lot of horsecrap just because he had some need to be contrary at all costs, and now we have MRJ backing her efforts with "Somebody told me that" simply because that is her NCBA's position.
I'm just saying to bring something that actually supports a position and suggests some thought was put into your opinion. Like I mentioned earlier, a hell of a lot is at stake now. We need rational thought based on facts, history, previous experiences, etc... and not just parrots repeating mantras of those sticking knives in our backs.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Have YOU heard all the evidence, or testimony of what JBS intends to do if their proposed buy-out or merger does go through? I haven't, and I seriously doubt that you have, either.

I do know what they intend to do. They intend on further concentrating an industry that is already far too concentrated and the intend on operating a business plan that drastically reduces marketing options for 1000s of producers.

What is wrong with taking a look at FACTS before condemning business deals? Some people will see opportunity and others will insist the sky is falling.

The facts are already out there. When were you planning on looking at them?

For the record, I do not yet have an opinion on this proposed merger/acquisition. It seems reasonable to keep an open mind until the facts are known about plans JBS may have in mind.

I find that hard to believe when you call the opposition to the merger "inflammatory language" and then suggest the attorney generals were only "playing politics".

What I'm asking from you is to actually back what you said. What is inflammatory? What leads you to believe there might just be political games being played? You're doing the exact same thing you and NCBA did on the farm bill; you're badmouthing it and then when called on it, you've got nothing.
 

Clarencen

Well-known member
Couldn't we really make our country prosper and bloom, if all of the people who are living on welfare could produce something or do something to benifit society?
Obama promises a change, where do we go for a change. How did he get to where he is? whose money? That question belongs on the political page.
 

mrj

Well-known member
Clarence, you do have a point about people making personal attacks and I certainly wish that did not happen, since I'm the one being attacked most of the time.

I like your comments re. "uncertain times", especially remarks on welfare and how much better off even the lowest income people are today than back in the '30s. We read so often that those on welfare have TV, some even have large screen TV, cars, and other luxuries other people must work for.

We all should be concerned with the income redistribution being promoised in the name of "change" by Obama. His promise of higher taxes on those earning over $70,000. 00 per year will hit hard and probably eliminate many small businesses, including farms that are the very backbone of this nation. Those small businesses that do provide a family income of over $70,000.00 belong to very hard workers who put in far more than the customary 40 hours per week.

The growth of an attitude (and practice!) among politicians and other citizens in this country of "punish success" and "reward failure" is very disturbing and a danger to our freedom.

And yes, this should be on the politics page.

If anyone believes Sandhusker truly does "feel bad" about abusing those of us who do not think as he does, there must be a bridge somewhere you could get a great buy on

Sandhusker, yet again, your claims that you "know" things that others have not said or done are going to happen or be done simply because you "know" that is what they will do does NOT make you correct nor what you "know" factual!!!!

Words in a 'news' story, such as "LIKELY", "COULD", "MAY", are intended to make the target audience believe the feared actions WILL come to pass, so those readers will call their state Attorney Generals, other politicians, and Congressmen to protest. Just as the writer has incited them to do!

JBS has stated they want a presence in the USA in order to sell the superior grain fed beef we produce into the greater world market. If they have said more than that, it will come out in the investigations.

You, Sandhusker, seem too eager to allow your bias against NCBA to blind you to the fact that the NCBA call for thorough investigation into the proposed JBS acquisition means just that, and is NOT support for the acquisition.

mrj
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
...I'd like to see a fact or two supporting your position.
I think that's the burr you put under Sandhusker's saddle.

If the JBS merger goes through, you WILL get paid less for your commodity cattle. Bank on it! (pun intended)

mrj said:
JBS has stated they want a presence in the USA in order to sell the superior grain fed beef we produce into the greater world market.
So, JBS is going to do what Tyson can't??? :lol: I guess SK is waiting on JBS. :? :???:

Where is the largest beef consuming market in the world??????
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Words in a 'news' story, such as "LIKELY", "COULD", "MAY", are intended to make the target audience believe the feared actions WILL come to pass, so those readers will call their state Attorney Generals, other politicians, and Congressmen to protest. Just as the writer has incited them to do!

Do you really want me to bring up a couple NCBA or Dittmer articles that are full of those words and watch you backpeddle? How many do you want?

JBS has stated they want a presence in the USA in order to sell the superior grain fed beef we produce into the greater world market. If they have said more than that, it will come out in the investigations.

What do you care about the greater world market that, apparently, Tyson can't service. After all, if we don't sell to the greater world market, somebody else will buy it, right?

You, Sandhusker, seem too eager to allow your bias against NCBA to blind you to the fact that the NCBA call for thorough investigation into the proposed JBS acquisition means just that, and is NOT support for the acquisition.

How much investigation do you need to see the further concentration and loss of marketing opportunities? Quit making excuses.
 

mrj

Well-known member
Sandhusker, I was promoting selling US beef into the world market and marketing to that 96% population for years. Long before "your" group was given to you by Pat Goggins/LMA, and continued when "your" group was promoting the idea that we only needed to close our borders to imported beef and get rich selling our own USA produced beef just to our own people. While I don't recall if you were on that bandwagon, I do know some of "your" groups directors surely were promoting that idea on their 'market reports' on radio stations across SD, at the least.

Re-hash whatever you please. You apparently don't have much to do with your time, in any case.

You probably won't agree with Pete Crow and his take on the JBS deal, but he does make sense, and you and RobertMac are basing your FEELINGS about the deal on emotion and what YOU perceive will happen, not on anything JBS says they want to achieve with this deal.

You also ignore the fact they bought three packing plants whose owners obviously wanted to sell.

Would you have preferred that Tyson buy them?????

BTW, RobertMac, what makes you think my cattle are 'commodity' quality? Or that I blindly take them to the sale barn and ask what someone will give for them? One NCBA goal, and mine as well, is for people to get paid for the quality they build into their cattle by various means.

mrj


mrj
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
mrj said:
Sandhusker, I was promoting selling US beef into the world market and marketing to that 96% population for years. Long before "your" group was given to you by Pat Goggins/LMA, and continued when "your" group was promoting the idea that we only needed to close our borders to imported beef and get rich selling our own USA produced beef just to our own people. While I don't recall if you were on that bandwagon, I do know some of "your" groups directors surely were promoting that idea on their 'market reports' on radio stations across SD, at the least.

You are full of contradictions, MRJ. You make the smart-aleck comment, "beef that isn't sold in SK is sold somewhere else, isn't it?" and then brag about promoting US beef in the world. Do you realize South Korea is part of that 96% you talk about?

You claim to support niche markets, but you are opposed to the BSE tested niche market.

You claim that science has to be a part of trade, but you ignore products such as hormone free that are also not based on sound science (as argued by the USDA at the WTO) that are allowed to trade.

You claim to support free enterprise and limited government in business, but you support a ban on a product that is the result of free enterprise.

You claim to be opposed to government actions that limit producer's marketing opportunities, but then you support a policy that does exactly that.


Re-hash whatever you please. You apparently don't have much to do with your time, in any case.

I do my own research and my own thinking. I recommend you give it a try - you wouldn't be full of so many contradictions when you try to justify the position of those you place blind faith in.

You probably won't agree with Pete Crow and his take on the JBS deal, but he does make sense, and you and RobertMac are basing your FEELINGS about the deal on emotion and what YOU perceive will happen, not on anything JBS says they want to achieve with this deal.

We've said the industry will be more concentrated. That is a feeling based on perception?

You also ignore the fact they bought three packing plants whose owners obviously wanted to sell.

And that has what to do with the effect on producers? Nothing.

Would you have preferred that Tyson buy them?????

I would prefer a non-concentrated industry where the principles of competition are allowed to create a fair marketplace where everybody has a chance to make a living. That disapeared thanks to a supposed cattlemen's group that allied itself with the same people who want to play us against the world and force us into submission. Nice job - another NCBA success - put that on your list.

BTW, RobertMac, what makes you think my cattle are 'commodity' quality? Or that I blindly take them to the sale barn and ask what someone will give for them? One NCBA goal, and mine as well, is for people to get paid for the quality they build into their cattle by various means.

Unless one of those "various means" is opposed by the AMI.... (see the contradictions above)
mrj
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
mrj, here are the facts...we are in the middle of the largest beef market in the world...increase beef sales here just a little bit and we won't have the beef to meet the needs of the other 96% of the world population. What the rest of the world does for our industry is gives them a place to sell cuts (like tongue) that don't sell well here or sell high value cuts for more than they being here. The important thing is to provide the consumer with the product they are willing to buy...such as BSE tested beef to those that are willing to pay for it. Economics 101!!!!!!!!

When you combine three of the top five packers and it doesn't matter who does the combining(buying), it will limit producer's marketing opportunities. Again Economics 101!!!!!!!!

mrj said:
BTW, RobertMac, what makes you think my cattle are 'commodity' quality? Or that I blindly take them to the sale barn and ask what someone will give for them? One NCBA goal, and mine as well, is for people to get paid for the quality they build into their cattle by various means.

If you are selling to one of the top five or so packers, you are selling into a commodity based market. There are NO PREMIUMS in commodity markets...only discounts!!!!!! The only ways to start to truly get paid for quality is to direct market or sell through or to an independent branded beef program. I have cattle that I would be lucky to get $500 per head for in the commodity market(salebarn)...I can put $500 into marketing and processing and gross close to two grand for the same animal. THAT'S A PREMIUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
RM, you're trying to talk economics 101 to someone who doesn't understand elementary economics. All she understands is what NCBA tells her. The truly sad and damaging part is that she's not alone.
 

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