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More on Fawn Calf Syndrome

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Anonymous

Guest
From the ABS site:

Unusual Calves Reported from Connealy ALL AROUND

May 4, 2009

Dr. Jonathan Beever of the University of Illinois has made us aware of two unusual calves that appear to be affected by the condition commonly known as Fawn Calf Syndrome (FCS). These calves have been parent verified to be sired by 29AN1693 Connealy ALL AROUND (15490811).

FCS is still being researched but indications from that research are that it is inherited as a simple recessive trait. Unlike AM and NH, this condition is not necessarily lethal. However, severely affected calves in extensive management conditions may have difficulties initially nursing without assistance and may be prone to mortality. This condition was first identified and investigated in Australia and research there indicates that the condition traces through the common ancestor Bon View Bando 598 to Premier Independence, the sire of his grandam, and possibly back to the dam of Independence.

Classification of the defect, breed association policies and a DNA test are all still under development at this time. ALL AROUND semen will be available only by special request through the ABS Beef Department.

ABS routinely investigates any abnormal calves reported to us that appear to be genetic in nature utilizing resources like Dr. David Steffen at the University of Nebraska, Dr. Beever and the respective breed association. Our policy has been and continues to be to label any bull that has been determined to be a carrier of a deleterious gene through either approved DNA testing or the identification of two or more calves that have been parent verified and confirmed through pathology to be affected by a known genetic defect. To date, we have had no other potential FCS calves reported to us by any other ABS sires.

When more is known about this condition and suspect pedigrees, ABS will communicate that information to our Representatives and customers. We encourage you to report any unusual calves to ABS, the respective breed association and to Drs. Beever or Steffen as referenced below on February 11th. They will assist and coordinate getting samples distributed appropriately for complete investigation.

This link contains information from the American Angus Association and a request for suspect calves to be submitted.

Reporting Fawn Calf Syndrome:

http://www.absglobal.com/media/files/beef/Reporting_FCS.pdf


http://www.absglobal.com/beef/beef-news/
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Whats becoming so much more apparent as the facts continue to come out-- some of these supposedly credible industry/producer leaders-- and supposedly representatives of the breed/industry have either sold themselves out in this new GREED over ETHICS of the BIG CORPORATE "bigger , better, faster over all ethics/morals = BETTER" that has overtook this countrys culture.....

And just as the Wall Street and Investment folks endangered/sold out the trust and the futures of their investors-- these major bigger, better, faster "producers" ( I refuse to call them breeders) of what is appearing to be known defective genetics that were hid in the shadows of nontransparency- and association coverup (as it becomes apparent some of these defects were reported to them and the Industry/AAA 8-10 years ago- with no info or requests for input put out to the members)--- need to be smited mightedly- and the high horses they've been riding jerked from under their silver plated saddles....
 

Hay Feeder

Well-known member
Shout it out . Everyone needs to undertand what is what. The diverse of people that own cattle today may have never seen calves getting up and nursing of any breed. IF THEY LEARNED IT ON THE INTERENT thats all tha matters ???
Many down to earth ranchers are on here. For some reason they do not post about curley, Fawn, or Hydro
Tbk its is not a issue in the cattle busness at all. To muck internet.
_
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Hay Feeder said:
Shout it out . Everyone needs to undertand what is what. The diverse of people that own cattle today may have never seen calves getting up and nursing of any breed. IF THEY LEARNED IT ON THE INTERENT thats all tha matters ???
Many down to earth ranchers are on here. For some reason they do not post about curley, Fawn, or Hydro
Tbk its is not a issue in the cattle busness at all. To muck internet.
_

Yep-- its sad when you have to learn about these potential defects/problems on the internet- years before you are informed/they are confirmed by the association you pay dues to and the industry leaders that you do business with :???:
 

High Plains

Well-known member
Old Timer, in my opinion you are blowing a whole bunch of hot air on this one. You act as if a whole slew of Angus breeders, the Angus board of directors and association staff are really operating with criminal intent. Yeah, they all have a lot to gain by perpetuating problems in the breed. :shock: Your slanderous remarks are pitiful. The Connealy family that bred the "All Around" bull are good people. These are the people that you're trying to discredit here. What axe do you have to grind with them? Based on your comments, I'd say you've never even met them. But you're quick to unload both barrells. :roll: Do you think they've been successful due to dishonest practices? I don't see too many ranchers flocking to do business with dishonest people. :roll: They may not raise your kind of Angus cattle but they've raised some awfully good ones and they will continue. You probably blame them for what you call "ruining your cows" with the "bigger, better, faster" genetics that seem to have caused you trouble in the past. Well guess what, you're the one that turned the bulls out and nobody else. So get over it and take your own path if you didn't like the results. But since you're out picking fights with good people that are doing good things with the breed, I can't help but call you out on it. It makes no sense that they would actually want to have FCS or anything else in their genetics or their customers'. They wouldn't want to perpetuate it for one minute!! Take a step back and get some reality working for you. They'll handle their issues and move forward doing as good a job as they possibly can.

Crawl down off of your throne, oh King of Cattle. :roll:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Well whats coming out is that the Australians, Australian Vets, and Australian Angus Association has been investigating some of these defects as far back as the 90's- as well as reporting it- and the suspected sires- to the AAA- the producers of those sires- and the bull studs....

The rumors have also ran rampant about genetic defects in some of these sires ( Future Direction comes to mind first) for years- altho noone knew what genetic defect as they knew nothing of these AM, NH, Fawn Calf.....Then 2-3 years ago some of the Australians started making public on the internet and chat sites these defects- altho still nothing came from AAA or the studs/producers....

Little of this really became public until a major Administrative change took place in the AAA...

When were you first informed by the AAA or a major stud/producer of even the possibility of these defects... :???:

Was there a coverup by the AAA, bull studs, producers - its up to you to decide :???:

But to me it sure smells of what has taken over much of this countries business/corporate world-- GREED over ETHICS and MORAL responsibilty... :(
 

WB

Well-known member
In OT's defense I didn't see where he indicted or implied Connealys' did anything wrong. As far as the AAA weelllll lets just say if you were in an ocean and drowning they probably would be about 231 on your list to call for help.


I have a good friend who is a registered Angus breeder and he is beside himself that the breed leadership has led the breed down this path. He continued that there is still some dead wood in the office that needs to be cleaned up. The association is still not that interested in looking into FCS and the itty-bitty/ dwarfism that breeders are getting.
 

PATB

Well-known member
ABS did the right thing by anouncing that onward is suspected of producing possible FCS challenged calves. The AAA could take a more active roll investigating reported abnormal black angus calves and educating breeders of possible genetic challenges to keep a look out for.
 

S.S.A.P.

Well-known member
Oldtimer - how come you used the "bigger, better, faster: Bull of the Month" bulls on your commercial herd (and screwed them up) BUT didn't use any "bigger, better, faster: Bull of the Month" bulls on your registered herd?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
S.S.A.P. said:
Oldtimer - how come you used the "bigger, better, faster: Bull of the Month" bulls on your commercial herd (and screwed them up) BUT didn't use any "bigger, better, faster: Bull of the Month" bulls on your registered herd?

Simple- we had no registered herd then....I had several purebreds that I didn't buy papers on- and probably kept better records than the AAA does on all my cows- ran them like a registered herd with BW's and such- but no registered....

After the wreck I ran into with using the "Bull of the Month" for several years-- a few years ago we decided we were going to have to buy some replacements until we got the wreck fixed- and my son decided that since I had sold out most of the horses (and he never enjoyed the horses as I did)- he was going to replace them with registered angus cows (since he thought Dad shouldn't get bored not having paper work to do :wink: )- and try to buy mostly from herds known for their maternal abilities (Cole Creek, DDA, Ohlde, Whitney Creek, Shoshone, Wye bloodlines)- and stay as far away from the bull of the month bloodlines as possible...Those are the only ones we're keeping replacements from anymore....

And luckily none of those have so far traced back to any potential carriers of AM or NH- altho I'm not so sure I'll dodge the bullet with this Fawn Calf stuff- as I understand Bando 598 is one of the top ones found in Australia and I have 2 or 3 cows that have him in their pedigrees...
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
EEEEEEEEEEOW!!

We bought one bull a Sitz Alliance 6595 son out
of a daughter of 598. We wound up not liking the bull. He got
taller and more narrow as he aged; and the breeder told us that
came from 598 so I've NEVER considered 598 ever again. But
we did have that one bull :x . :???:

We've not had one of these calves and I hope we don't. We got
rid of that bull a long time ago.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Interestingly-- the Semen companies are now lobbying the AAA to change their rules and allow them to keep marketing semen from genetic defect carriers :???:

Mr. Bryce Schumann
Chief Executive Officer
American Angus Association
3201 Frederick Avenue
St. Joseph, MO 64506-2997

Dear Bryce,

On behalf of the Beef Committee of the National Association of Animal Breeders, we wish to address our concerns in regards to the current and future policies of the American Angus Association relating to the registration status of potential and known carriers of genetic defects.

The impact of the discovery of the Arthrogryposis Multiplex (AM) genetic defect last fall has been felt throughout the Angus breed. In a blink of an eye, the value of lines of Angus cattle has been altered significantly. Now, we have Neuropathic Hydrocephalus (NH) and soon to be released Fawn Calf Syndrome (FCS) to address to our breeders and customers.

With the vast improvements in DNA technology, we can all be assured that additional discoveries are waiting on the horizon. Genetic defects are not new to the Angus breed or the beef industry. The Association currently has six Genetic Defects listed on the website along with two Genetic Factors. These do not include NH or FCS. There are currently at least fourteen genetic defects being monitored by US beef breeds.

We have an obligation to utilize the science that is and will be available to us to make informed decisions to lessen the economic impact on our breed, our members and our customers. Dr. Mark Thallman, of the US Meat Animal Research Center, Clay Center, NE, said during his presentation at the 2009 BIF Convention, “Cattle known to carry genetics defects should not be considered defective. Instead, cattle in which the defects have been identified and mapped should be preferred over those in which the effects have not been identified.”

Angus cattle did not change with the discovery of AM or NH. In essence, we now know more about their genetic makeup in order to make informed decisions to avoid possible economic losses. By identifying genetic defects in lines of cattle, we can make reasonable decisions to breed around them as opposed to former methods of elimination of entire lines.

Let us be clear that we are in favor of promoting the testing of all at-risk individuals and full disclosure of the results. In some ways, this is no different than encouraging breeders to submit all records on their cattle in order to accurately determine their genetic merit for the many performance traits that we measure.

We propose that the Board of Directors reconsider their current policy for recording progeny out of carriers of genetic defects. As we have previously discussed, we take exception to the rule as written in the adopted guidelines of November 15, 2008, that would eliminate the registration of all AI sired calves out of a carrier bull, regardless of the calf’s status as a carrier. We feel that all bulls, whether used in natural service or AI, should be treated equally.

We propose the following policy for genetic defects.
1. Require testing of all AI sires, natural service sires and donor dams with at-risk pedigrees for known defects.
2. Require full disclosure of results of testing.
3. A listing of an animal’s risk for each genetic defect on his/her registration paper.
4. Let the marketplace work to determine the value of all registered Angus cattle.

By changing the current policy, breeders with carriers in their programs can still utilize those genetics to produce non-carrier registered Angus. We acknowledge that the marketplace will determine the demand for cattle that are carriers for various genetic defects. However, this gives all the opportunity to work through this problem in a timely manner with reduced economic loss to both the breed and breeders.
.
We sincerely appreciate the amount of time and effort that the board of directors and staff of the American Angus Association have placed on developing reasonable solutions for this issue. We thank you for allowing our input and offer our assistance to you as needed. Together, we can achieve what is best for our members, our customers and the Angus breed.

Respectfully,

Beef Committee
National Association of Animal Breeders

Don Trimmer, Jr Brian House
Director of Beef Programs Beef Programs Manager
Accelerated Genetics Select Sires

Doug Frank Willie Altenburg
Beef Product Manager Associate Vice President Beef Marketing
ABS Global cRI - Genex

This is the makeup of the National Association of Animal Breeders (NAAB)-pretty much all semen companies:

http://www.naab-css.org/about/membership.html

It will be interesting to see if the AAA will hold tight to the line in the sand they've drawn and the rules they set to protect the integrity of the angus breed - especially after many folks have already made breeding decisions/expensive culling based on those rules- or will fold to the power of the money folks and now say we are going to let you register cattle which are carriers of lethal genetic defects and let the “Market Decide” whether or not they are useful to the industry. :???:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Faster horses said:
EEEEEEEEEEOW!!

We bought one bull a Sitz Alliance 6595 son out
of a daughter of 598. We wound up not liking the bull. He got
taller and more narrow as he aged; and the breeder told us that
came from 598 so I've NEVER considered 598 ever again. But
we did have that one bull :x . :???:

We've not had one of these calves and I hope we don't. We got
rid of that bull a long time ago.

Faster Horses- heres a picture/post I posted on the 5BarX site the other day...

Bando 155 is 598's sire- and came about during the time period when many breeders threw all other traits out the window to make their angus the size of the continentals...

Earlier on here we were talking about the Limestone Darkhorse picture-and the impression a picture can give you...I automatically took a dislike to him because of my aversion to pimp primped cattle/bulls....

But in the last few rainy days I was web searching and researching and came across the following picture of Bando 155.

Is a picture really worth a thousand words?

http://www.cattle.com/semen/bulls/Tehama+Bando+155+.aspx

Bando 155 must have had some good qualities about him as heavily as he was used-and is a pathfinder sire- but you sure wouldn't get them from that picture...
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
Are you aware that QAS Traveler 23-4 and Bando 155 is out of the
same sire?

I know why Bando 155 was used hard, or part of the reason.
He had wonderful daughters, great calving ease and his disposition
was better than Traveler 23-4. We never used him, but our
neighbor did and he used him fairly heavy.

We AI'd to RR Traveler 5204 and got some honky cows out of him.
We AI'd to Traveler 23-4 and got a real nice bull calf which we
kept as a heifer bull. He worked really well, but his disposition
wasn't the best.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Faster horses said:
Are you aware that QAS Traveler 23-4 and Bando 155 is out of the
same sire?

Yep-- hard to believe...When one has a good angus bull look- and the other looks like a Jersey....The dams must have had a lot of influence...

http://www.cattle.com/semen/bulls/Q+A+S+Traveler+23-4.aspx

http://www.cattle.com/semen/bulls/Tehama+Bando+155+.aspx
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
This conspiracy goes back to 23-4? This is almost as long-running as the NWO and UFO conspiracy theories.

Anybody that needs to get into the big money making conspiracy needs to give me a call, I know of about 50 doses of 23-4 semen for sale.

If you want to protect yourselves, I can also get my hands on some of the semen that only OT was using. (Whitney Creek and Shoshone bloodlines)

You may want to try Jauer Emblazon 775 19. He's a 2001 model, so he should be clean of the corruption and dishonesty that OT is speaking about. No need to have genetic evaluation done , take his word for it!

His Dam must have been a Jersey!

19-web.jpg
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
This conspiracy goes back to 23-4? This is almost as long-running as the NWO and UFO conspiracy theories.

Hypocrit-- where did you hear that at...I haven't heard his name mentioned by the Aussies- or anywhere for that matter... :???:
 
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