• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

More shria Law

Steve

Well-known member
:mad:
Harvard University has banned men from one of its gyms for a few hours a week, a move to accommodate Muslim women who, for religious and cultural reasons, cannot exercise comfortably in their presence.

No men are allowed in the gym between 3 p.m. and 5 p.m. on Mondays, and between 8 a.m. and 10 a.m on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Even the staff during those times is all women.

Student Ola Aljawhary, who is Muslim,...rejected that argument. "The majority should be willing to compromise," she said. "

Six Muslim women asked the university for the special hours, Muslim women who say it offends their sense of modesty to exercise in front of the opposite sex. The special hours allow the Muslim women, who adhere to traditional dress codes by covering their hair and most of their skin while in public, to dress more appropriately for exercising,

"It's a pretty big breach of their moral and religious code for a man to see them with their hair uncovered and it's just not possible for them to be in a mixed environment,"

'We get special requests from religious groups all the time and we try to honor them whenever possible,'' he said, noting that the school has designated spaces for Muslim and Hindu students to pray.

They are right about some things.. it seems it's not possible for some muslims to be in a mixed environment.. I thought we were a melting pot.,... or do they get their own pot as well.. . so much for the melting pot..
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Ahhhh....man....this is gonna hurt...but here goes.


I agree with you guys!

!!!!!!!!!!!OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I go by the saying " when in Rome...do as the Romans".


So special circumstance should not be made for these women.

I mean come on...are these chicks so hot that just doing a few sit ups or a few laps on the tread mill throws all of man kind there into a breeding frenzy?
:roll: :roll: :roll:
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Well...when I travel in a Muslim country I have to fit into their ways.

I don't ask them to allow me to wear my shoes into their mosque....nor do I wear shorts in contradiction to their customs in certain areas.

Maybe I'm wrong but I show respect where ever I am at in the world and try to fit in. You'll learn sooooo much more...have a much better time anywhere.


I mean that's usually why anyone travels to another place, either for school or a visit, you ' do as the Romans when in Rome"
 

Steve

Well-known member
Kolanuraven
Maybe I'm wrong but I show respect where ever I am at in the world

nothing wrong with that,.. but did you have to agree with us..

my poor old computer hardly is able to recover after I agreed with you the last time.. I think you might have just killed the processor as it is making a funny humming noise.. :? :?
 

Kato

Well-known member
Don't usually venture in here, but this one caught my eye.

So, no one here would mind if their wife or daughter went to Africa, for instance, and was not allowed to wear a blouse to a local ceremony where the women traditionally go without? She should take off her clothes and join in?

To these women, exercising in front of strange men is just as uncomfortable a situation as this would be. It's one thing to expect someone to fit in, and I agree that wherever possible people should try and follow local customs, but in the situation where it is against their sense of decency, that is different.

Besides, do these guys need access to the gym every hour of every day?
 

Steve

Well-known member
Kato
So, no one here would mind if their wife or daughter went to Africa, for instance, and was not allowed to wear a blouse to a local ceremony where the women traditionally go without? She should take off her clothes and join in?

I wouldn't take her to a nude beach, or a strip club either..
 

Steve

Well-known member
Kato
but in the situation where it is against their sense of decency, that is different.

It's all about incremental steps to wipe away years of progress..

first a check out in target can't scan pork...

then a muslim cabbie says no guide dogs..

then another muslim cab driver won't allow alcohol in his cab.. or any one who is drinking..

Now men are not allowed at a gym.. because a muslim is uncomfortable..

whats next?

they might be little steps but they are all steps backwards..
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Kato said:
Don't usually venture in here, but this one caught my eye.

So, no one here would mind if their wife or daughter went to Africa, for instance, and was not allowed to wear a blouse to a local ceremony where the women traditionally go without? She should take off her clothes and join in?

To these women, exercising in front of strange men is just as uncomfortable a situation as this would be. It's one thing to expect someone to fit in, and I agree that wherever possible people should try and follow local customs, but in the situation where it is against their sense of decency, that is different.

Besides, do these guys need access to the gym every hour of every day?



But these women, educated women, knew what they were getting into when they came to America to go to school. Learning to adapt to different situations is a MAJOR part of learning.

I know certain things are a big fat NO when I travel abroad and I don't try to change things when I get to that country.
 

Goodpasture

Well-known member
All I can say is that I applaud Harvard for being culturally aware and providing an area where these women can maintain their faith and still accomplish their goals.

In my home, we do not invite our Jewish friends over for a ham dinner, even though we raise and smoke our own hams and frequently have them. We don't offer our vegetarian friends a t-bone. We do not celebrate Jehova Witness's birthdays. We celebrate spring equinox with our pagan friends with colored eggs. We don't ask a Holiness woman to try on a bikini.........We make culturally sensitive adjustments to our lifestyle all the time.

I would agree with all of you if the women in question insisted that all women using the facility do so in accordance with Sharia beliefs, but to request a short period where they can exercise in a manner that allows them to retain their modesty in accordance with their faith and belief is not a problem. I would have the same response to requests of Hindu's for a vegetarian diet in a public institution. So long as they are not insisting that I be vegetarian, I don't care what they decide to eat.
 

Kato

Well-known member
:agree:

There weren't insisting that others follow their beliefs, just that they have some time to use the facility.

It reminds me of a case we had in a city near us a few years ago. Some women started a fitness club so they could exercise without being ogled by those type of men who seem to love to go to gyms just to watch the women. Some man started a human rights lawsuit because he wasn't allowed in. He won his case.

The gym closed.
 

Steve

Well-known member
Kato
Some women started a fitness club so they could exercise without being ogled by those type of men who seem to love to go to gyms just to watch the women. Some man started a human rights lawsuit because he wasn't allowed in. He won his case.

I am not against a group starting their own clubs or but by the court's actions in closing the club, it shows that to be exclusionary is not within the bounds of our laws..

even if I think the guy was wrong..and that ladies should be allowed to have a gym/club of their own.. the laws don't allow "excluding others".. based on gender..

Can they start excluding Jews from the Harvard gym?

Not yet.. but given time the exclusion will have more rules and more people will be excluded..
 

Steve

Well-known member
Goodpasture said:
All I can say is that I applaud Harvard for being culturally aware and providing an area where these women can maintain their faith and still accomplish their goals.

In my home, we do not invite our Jewish friends over for a ham dinner, even though we raise and smoke our own hams and frequently have them. We don't offer our vegetarian friends a t-bone. We do not celebrate Jehova Witness's birthdays. We celebrate spring equinox with our pagan friends with colored eggs. We don't ask a Holiness woman to try on a bikini.........We make culturally sensitive adjustments to our lifestyle all the time.

I would agree with all of you if the women in question insisted that all women using the facility do so in accordance with Sharia beliefs, but to request a short period where they can exercise in a manner that allows them to retain their modesty in accordance with their faith and belief is not a problem. I would have the same response to requests of Hindu's for a vegetarian diet in a public institution. So long as they are not insisting that I be vegetarian, I don't care what they decide to eat.

taking steps to accommodate a guest is fair and right, but
not one of your examples was to "exclude" other guests from attending...
 

Goodpasture

Well-known member
Steve said:
Kato
Some women started a fitness club so they could exercise without being ogled by those type of men who seem to love to go to gyms just to watch the women. Some man started a human rights lawsuit because he wasn't allowed in. He won his case.

........the court's actions in closing the club........
the court didn't close the club. When women could no longer be alone they quit going. The club could not survive as a business if the only customer was a guy who really didn't want to go there..............
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
When I've had dinner in the home of some friends in Cairo...I was not ' made exception"' for.

I didn't get a table & chair, I sat on the floor, removed my shoes, didn't get a knife-fork-plate. I dug in with my fingers into the food platters, just like the rest of the family that was there.

I didn't expect anyone of make exceptions for me.


Maybe it's just being raised " southern" but when you're in someone elses' home ( country) you respect their ways and don't make a fuss.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
When I've had dinner in the home of some friends in Cairo...I was not ' made exception"' for.

I didn't get a table & chair, I sat on the floor, removed my shoes, didn't get a knife-fork-plate. I dug in with my fingers into the food platters, just like the rest of the family that was there.

I didn't expect anyone of make exceptions for me.


Maybe it's just being raised " southern" but when you're in someone elses' home ( country) you respect their ways and don't make a fuss.
I agree with you Kolan. Feels good too. :lol: I guess the main deal here that hasn't been discussed is the fact that these women didn't need to use the gym. Why not exorcise in private at the house or some mosque or something. If their muslim liberties won't let them expose themselves in public I think that it's silly that they make everyone else leave. They should be the one to make new plans. I know a lot of women that aren't comfortable wearing a bathing suit in public but I've never heard them ask for the pool to close so that these women can swim. They just go somewhere private or don't go at all. No big deal.
 
Top