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MUST BE NICE

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
Canada pushing forward with traceability

By Sean Roach

14/09/2006- Canada’s government is offering US$1.5m in financial help to the country's struggling meat sector in a bid get traceability programs on track.

The Canadian Integrated Traceability Program (CITP) is one of many government efforts to aid the recovery of the Canadian meat and livestock industry. The industry has struggled to bounce back after bans and a fall in consumer demand after the discovery of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) in Canada's herds.

Legal traceability requirements, implemented after BSE was discovered, allows manufacturers and regulators to track food from the source to the consumer. This makes it easier to pinpoint problems when a food safety incident occurs, and make recalls if necessary.

BSE was discovered in several Canadian cows in 2003. The discovery and subsequent backlash from importers caused Canada to push through a drastic strategy to curtail the disastrous effects disease has had on the county’s meat industry.

CITP is a $1.7m (US$1.5m) part of the strategy. The program aims to get producers, companies, industry organizations and researchers to come up with new traceability schemes. Each group can acquire up to US$134,000 for pilot traceability projects in Canada.

Mark Drouin, the senior program officer at Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, said that CITP could advance a national livestock tractability program and the test schemes could support the direction of that initiative.

However, the main direction of CITP is launch traceability systems with the latest technology.

“Historically, we’ve always had traceability in the form of ear tags or branding,” said Drouin. “Now were using this initiative to push forward with the most advanced traceability technology at our disposal.”

To ensure cutting-edge traceability, CITP is coupled with the Canadian Radio Frequency Identification (CRFID) Reader Program, a $1.8m (US$1.6m) investment in RFID tracking and tracing of cattle and meat.

CRFID reimburses applicants for 50 per cent of the costs relating to the purchase of RFID readers, associated hardware and software as well as installation.

Drouin believes that these are important steps in continuing the battle against the BSE. Other issues involving trade disputes, animal health, supply and border access will also have to be tackled in the future, he said.

The CITP application period opened on September 6. The deadline for 2006 applications is October 1. More information about CITP can be viewed at: http://www.agr.gc.ca/citp

The CRFID scheme is available to slaughter and processing plants, sales markets, veterinarians, veterinarian schools and universities, pathology labs, mobile butchers, dead stock operators, commercial livestock truckers, commercial feedlots, grazing co-operatives and community pastures. The CRFID application period ends on December 31, 2007.
 

Jason

Well-known member
Yep Haymaker it is nice that the gov't will pay half the cost of the rfid tags for companies that are doing r&d work into making our traceback even better.

Maybe the walking billboards for a tracking company will put forward a proposal for testing. Of course they would incur all the other costs associated with the plan and would only make a profit if they can show a good system that is cost effective and gets bought.
 

Bill

Well-known member
However, the main direction of CITP is launch traceability systems with the latest technology.

“Historically, we’ve always had traceability in the form of ear tags or branding,” said Drouin. “Now were using this initiative to push forward with the most advanced traceability technology at our disposal.”
Yep it must be nice Haymaker. Have Canada fund and do the R&D and then have y'all piggyback on our system.
 

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
Bill said:
However, the main direction of CITP is launch traceability systems with the latest technology.

“Historically, we’ve always had traceability in the form of ear tags or branding,” said Drouin. “Now were using this initiative to push forward with the most advanced traceability technology at our disposal.”
Yep it must be nice Haymaker. Have Canada fund and do the R&D and then have y'all piggyback on our system.

We dont need your system,we already have one that works just fine has for many years,all we need to do is identify imports,its that simple..........good luck

PS That system of yours would'nt be defined as a subsidy,would it ?
 

Bill

Well-known member
HAY MAKER said:
Bill said:
However, the main direction of CITP is launch traceability systems with the latest technology.

“Historically, we’ve always had traceability in the form of ear tags or branding,” said Drouin. “Now were using this initiative to push forward with the most advanced traceability technology at our disposal.”
Yep it must be nice Haymaker. Have Canada fund and do the R&D and then have y'all piggyback on our system.

We dont need your system,we already have one that works just fine has for many years,all we need to do is identify imports,its that simple..........good luck

PS That system of yours would'nt be defined as a subsidy,would it ?
If it is it will likely be to US corps once again bellying up to Canada's trough.

Canadians do a better job of supporting and buying from the US than many Americans do
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
HAY MAKER said:
We dont need your system,we already have one that works just fine has for many years,all we need to do is identify imports,its that simple..........

Yeah, your system worked wonders on those Alabama cows......

Rod
 

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
DiamondSCattleCo said:
HAY MAKER said:
We dont need your system,we already have one that works just fine has for many years,all we need to do is identify imports,its that simple..........

Yeah, your system worked wonders on those Alabama cows......

Rod

Worked a helluva lot better than yours,I have posted countless articles proving many of the herd mates of most of your BSE cases were never located..............good luck
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
HAY MAKER said:
DiamondSCattleCo said:
HAY MAKER said:
We dont need your system,we already have one that works just fine has for many years,all we need to do is identify imports,its that simple..........

Yeah, your system worked wonders on those Alabama cows......

Rod

Worked a helluva lot better than yours,I have posted countless articles proving many of the herd mates of most of your BSE cases were never located..............good luck

Izzat right? I seem to recall that you guys were never ever able to trace down a single herdmate of that Alabama critter. Were you even able to trace to herd of origin?

Yet, with every single BSE case in Canada, we've been able to trace herd of origin, most of the herdmates, and many offspring. The last BSE case traced back over 100 animals, and I never did get the final numbers. I believe there was a post on here though with the actual numbers. 100 is less than 0 where you come from, Haymaker?

Your way is better, huh? Okey dokey, have it your way.

Rod
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
Bill said:
HAY MAKER said:
Bill said:
Yep it must be nice Haymaker. Have Canada fund and do the R&D and then have y'all piggyback on our system.

We dont need your system,we already have one that works just fine has for many years,all we need to do is identify imports,its that simple..........good luck

PS That system of yours would'nt be defined as a subsidy,would it ?
If it is it will likely be to US corps once again bellying up to Canada's trough.

Canadians do a better job of supporting and buying from the US than many Americans do



Hey Bill looks like those Yanks are riding our shirt tails.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Big Muddy rancher said:
Bill said:
HAY MAKER said:
We dont need your system,we already have one that works just fine has for many years,all we need to do is identify imports,its that simple..........good luck

PS That system of yours would'nt be defined as a subsidy,would it ?
If it is it will likely be to US corps once again bellying up to Canada's trough.

Canadians do a better job of supporting and buying from the US than many Americans do



Hey Bill looks like those Yanks are riding our shirt tails.

Actually if it goes as originally proposed ( which I doubt it can anymore), we'll be riding the Aussies shirttails- as our system is designed around theirs - which is another government subsidized system.....
 

PORKER

Well-known member
Actually if it goes as originally proposed ( which I doubt it can anymore), we'll be riding the Aussies shirttails- as our system is designed around theirs - which is another government subsidized system..

Well you could use neither system and go with a Private System ,like SCORINGAG . Every one of those systems are not built with cost in mind . They have holes in them like swiss chesse were data can be sucked off. So can I use either system to search here in the US, to see if I am eating Steer beef? NO. How about if its Angus?
 

Bill

Well-known member
PORKER said:
Actually if it goes as originally proposed ( which I doubt it can anymore), we'll be riding the Aussies shirttails- as our system is designed around theirs - which is another government subsidized system..

Well you could use neither system and go with a Private System ,like SCORINGAG . Every one of those systems are not built with cost in mind . They have holes in them like swiss chesse were data can be sucked off. So can I use either system to search here in the US, to see if I am eating Steer beef? NO. How about if its Angus?
Porker your continual use of these boards to promote your company has done more to turn us off your system than you can imagine.
 

Hanta Yo

Well-known member
1) R-CALF wants mCOOL
2) They don't want mID
3) How many of you (I call on all beef producers) have PREMISE ID's?
4) HOW ARE WE GOING TO TRACE ANYTHING BACK WITH THIS ATTITUDE. I keep hearing that mID has to do with health, mCOOL is marketing. I don't see a differentiation. IMHO I see animal ID working both ways, to traceback a BSE case AND verify the animal was born, raised and killed in the US.
It's going to be difficult to trace anything back because most people E & S of S. Dakota don't have brand laws, let alone tag their calves, really hard to trace back that last BSE case because of that. Those of you who are exceptions to my statement, I know you are out there and I'm not picking a fight with you.
6) Visited with Bruce Knight, our new Undersecretary for USDA marketing and Regulatory Programs. National Mandatory ID probably won't happen because it will be impossible to "force" people to do so, so there will be big "holes" in the system, but that is better than nothing. Also there is no database set up yet. Therefore, we really have NOTHING. I challenge some of you to get real and tell the truth. We don't have sh*$ in place and because of no brand laws in most of the USA it will be very difficult to trace back any animal unless they come from the Western States where there are brand laws. I am also aware of Seedstock producers, we, too, tattoo, ear tag, brand our cattle, but not everyone does this.


Soooo, come and get me :p
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
There's too many questions with M - ID. What is it going to cost? Who pays for what? Who stores the information? What equipment will be needed, etc....? Finally, do we really need it? Sure, we couldn't track that Alabama cow, but did it really hurt us?

Right now, it's just a concept that needs a whole lot of fleshing out.

I find it ironic that many of the same folks who said M-COOL would be prohibitively expensive are pushing M-ID, and you can't tell me ID would be cheaper.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Hanta Yo said:
1) R-CALF wants mCOOL
Correct
2) They don't want mID
They don't want it tied to the M-COOL law because its an unnecessary expense since all imported meat/ live cattle are already currently identified sufficiently.....Why make US producers go thru an additional expense to allow imports that are competing against them... :???:
3) How many of you (I call on all beef producers) have PREMISE ID's?

I have the ID number- but I have not and will not put out the expense/time/labor for tags until it becomes economically worthwhile to do so- (until the buyers put up the additional bucks for the tagged calves)...The buyers I have talked with all would prefer hot iron brands, brand inspections for official verification, and affidavits like they have been using for years- allowing the feeder/purchaser to use whatever of the many ID systems (eartag, retinal scanning, etc) each uses on their own from there on- with a permanent ID backup....
4) HOW ARE WE GOING TO TRACE ANYTHING BACK WITH THIS ATTITUDE. I keep hearing that mID has to do with health, mCOOL is marketing. I don't see a differentiation. IMHO I see animal ID working both ways, to traceback a BSE case AND verify the animal was born, raised and killed in the US.
At this time MCOOL apparently is both health and/or marketing with the Koreans, Taiwanese, and Japanese all having asked for segregation of imported beef and cattle- which the Packers and USDA were able to do quite handily for them...Why can't they do it for the US consumers that may have the same concerns? :???:
It's going to be difficult to trace anything back because most people E & S of S. Dakota don't have brand laws, let alone tag their calves, really hard to trace back that last BSE case because of that. Those of you who are exceptions to my statement, I know you are out there and I'm not picking a fight with you.
6) Visited with Bruce Knight, our new Undersecretary for USDA marketing and Regulatory Programs. National Mandatory ID probably won't happen because it will be impossible to "force" people to do so, so there will be big "holes" in the system, but that is better than nothing. Also there is no database set up yet. Therefore, we really have NOTHING. I challenge some of you to get real and tell the truth. We don't have sh*$ in place and because of no brand laws in most of the USA it will be very difficult to trace back any animal unless they come from the Western States where there are brand laws. I am also aware of Seedstock producers, we, too, tattoo, ear tag, brand our cattle, but not everyone does this.

So do I- Hanta Yo and have kept records on every cow since in the 60's when I got out of college...The M-ID program was handled wrong from the get go...You don't go out and tell the most independent and government doubting people in the world (ranchers) that your government is going to MANDATE something on them- and then in the middle of a huge industry split (NCBA/R-CALF) tell them that one of the groups is going to have the monoply on operating and profiting from the system...Johanns just played STUPID politics with his powerplay and set back any nationwide ID system 10 years.....Now even many of the borderline folks are pure skeptics and opposers....

I fail to believe that this ID is so important for health and food safety since the proposed plan did not/does not call for it to follow thru the slaughtering facility- and on to the consumer...Once the head comes off- the ID is chucked.....Or do the ID proponents think ID is important and will be OK for the producers- but too onerous and costly for the Packers/retailers
:???:




Soooo, come and get me :p
 

Hanta Yo

Well-known member
Sandhusker, I have no answers. My gut feeling says in order to have Mandatory Country of Origin Labeling, all beef (cattle) must have some type of ID in order to trace back. Not all cattle in the good ole US of A has ID. How in the heck are we supposed to enforce ID? Without that, how can we prove 100% that cattle are Born Raised and Killed in the US of A? I hear all arguments but nothing is solved. I don't know what it's going to cost, whatever anyone does.

mCOOL and mID, IMHO go hand in hand. For both Health and Marketing.

BTW, for being premise ID'd, we got paid extra. In the future, there will be a divisive line between commodity and market cattle. I believe those who refuse to have some type of ID or Premise ID will sell their cattle at commodity prices. Those who walk up to the plate won't get paid a premium, but won't be discounted as commodity cattle. It's in the future and like it or not, it's going to happen. Right now premise ID (age and source verification) is market driven. Pretty soon it will end up being the right thing to do for marketing your cattle.

IMHO

Hanta Yo
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
There's too many questions with M - ID. What is it going to cost? Who pays for what? Who stores the information? What equipment will be needed, etc....? Finally, do we really need it? Sure, we couldn't track that Alabama cow, but did it really hurt us?

Right now, it's just a concept that needs a whole lot of fleshing out.

I find it ironic that many of the same folks who said M-COOL would be prohibitively expensive are pushing M-ID, and you can't tell me ID would be cheaper.


Sandhusker if your folks had of waited for all the answers you would have been concieved. :roll:
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Hanta Yo said:
Sandhusker, I have no answers. My gut feeling says in order to have Mandatory Country of Origin Labeling, all beef (cattle) must have some type of ID in order to trace back. Not all cattle in the good ole US of A has ID. How in the heck are we supposed to enforce ID? Without that, how can we prove 100% that cattle are Born Raised and Killed in the US of A? I hear all arguments but nothing is solved. I don't know what it's going to cost, whatever anyone does.

mCOOL and mID, IMHO go hand in hand. For both Health and Marketing.

BTW, for being premise ID'd, we got paid extra. In the future, there will be a divisive line between commodity and market cattle. I believe those who refuse to have some type of ID or Premise ID will sell their cattle at commodity prices. Those who walk up to the plate won't get paid a premium, but won't be discounted as commodity cattle. It's in the future and like it or not, it's going to happen. Right now premise ID (age and source verification) is market driven. Pretty soon it will end up being the right thing to do for marketing your cattle.

IMHO

Hanta Yo

We already do have enough to ID for COOL. Any beef that hits our shores is already labeled. Canadian and Mexican cattle are hot branded as such. As long as the folks at the border are doing their job, anything else is US by default. It's already done!
 

Hanta Yo

Well-known member
It's going to be difficult to trace anything back because most people E & S of S. Dakota don't have brand laws, let alone tag their calves, really hard to trace back that last BSE case because of that. Those of you who are exceptions to my statement, I know you are out there and I'm not picking a fight with you.



It's not done yet. How is anyone going to force these people with 10-50 head of bovines to have some type of ID? Take the last BSE case for example. Had to drop the ball because of no records, no ID, no nothing.

Missouri ranks in the top 5 states with the most numbers of cattle. They don't have a brand law. Most don't ID their cattle with anything. (I had an uncle who had 50 head-he had a name for each one of them but no type of ID on the cow). We in the Western region of the US of A can say it is already in place. We ID our cattle with a brand, number tag, whatever. My argument is what about those who don't ID their cattle? Who is going to force these people to ID their cattle, how is it going to be enforced. As Bruce Knight said, there are going to be holes in the system. Seems to me R-CALF is pretty short sighted on this one because you claim ID is already in place. NOT EVERYWHERE.
 
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