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My COOL compromise

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Sandhusker

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I've got an idea on COOL that I think should give everybody what they want: I say we set up a V-COOL system with mandatory labeling. Every package of meat will have a country of origin space on the label. Those who think they have something to gain can put the country or origin (born, raised, slaughtered) in the spot and will be subfect to verification. Those who think COOL is needless would simply put "UNKNOWN" and would have less tracking requirements as well.

What says the board?
 

TimH

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Sandhusker- "Every package of meat will have a country of origin space on the label. Those who think they have something to gain can put the country or origin (born, raised, slaughtered) in the spot and will be subfect to verification. Those who think COOL is needless would simply put "UNKNOWN" and would have less tracking requirements as well. "

Let me get this straight....... The only thing Mandatory would be the label with the space for country of origin on it. Filling out that space would be optional or voluntary. Those who felt they had something to gain by filling in the Country of origin space on the label could, if they choose to.
Sounds good, but what is stopping those that feel they have something to gain from doing that, right now?? Is there currently some sort of law that PREVENTS voluntary COOL???? Or are they not already doing it because they feel there is nothing to be gained???

PS. I noticed that you also used the phrase.."subject to verification". I'm pretty sure that some sort of workable ID system is needed for this to be possible.
Sounds like V-COOL to me. Either way, mandatory or voluntary, I'm all for COOL. But I must say, that from the outside looking in, the current M-COOL law,AS WRITTEN, looks like a bad deal for US producers. Drop the food service exemptions, and bring in "M"-ID and you might have something......provided you are confident enough in your domestic consumer's sense of loyalty that they will actually pay more for US labelled product, and not just say they would in a poll.
Just my opinion, Sandhusker. You asked what the board thought!!!! :)
 

Sandhusker

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You kind of have me, Tim. The mandatory part is that the space reserved for country of origin would have to have something in it, either a country name or "unknown".
 

TimH

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Sandhusker- "The mandatory part is that the space reserved for country of origin would have to have something in it, either a country name or "unknown"."

Point taken, but what I'm getting at, is that without M-ID or some form of ENFORCEABLE traceback, how much "born,raised and slaughtered in the USA" product would have to be labelled "UNKNOWN"??? The product of Canada or any other country,if known and traceable, could be labelled accordingly.

Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe that if packers/retailers felt that there was more money to be made by labelling their product they would be doing it on their own.....Which is pretty much what you are suggesting.
Oh my gawd!!!! I agree with an R-Calf member!!!!!! :lol:
 
A

Anonymous

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Tim H: "Sounds good, but what is stopping those that feel they have something to gain from doing that, right now??"

Nothing!

Anyone can do this now if they thought it had value.


~SH~
 

agman

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Sandhusker said:
I've got an idea on COOL that I think should give everybody what they want: I say we set up a V-COOL system with mandatory labeling. Every package of meat will have a country of origin space on the label. Those who think they have something to gain can put the country or origin (born, raised, slaughtered) in the spot and will be subfect to verification. Those who think COOL is needless would simply put "UNKNOWN" and would have less tracking requirements as well.

What says the board?

Is it not the postion of R- Calf members that imported beef is unsafe. If so, why less tracking on "UNKNOWN"? Would they not have a price advantage through less tracking cost?

I say "make the process voluntary and let branded programs manage traceability". The market place would soon decide the value of full traceability. Have a great day.
 

Sandhusker

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Agman, 'Is it not the postion of R- Calf members that imported beef is unsafe. If so, why less tracking on "UNKNOWN"? Would they not have a price advantage through less tracking cost?"

Feel free to post a quote from R-CALF about the safety of imported beef if you have one.

There would be less tracking on "unknown", for obvious reasons - if you traced it, it would then be known! I'm not too worried about their pricing advantage. A good checkoff-funded campaign on buying US BEEF could very well negate that.
 

Broke Cowboy

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Time for a dumb question. We always chat about beef. But will COOL also apply to canned goods and to dry goods?

Seems to me that this COOL could be opening up a bigger can of worms than we might think.

Fruits from Asia, meats from wherever, fish from so many third world countries it is astounding, poultry or pork from everywhere - sugar from so many places it is astounding. Rice from every warm place in the world that has lots of water. All grown in one country - shipped to another country for packaging or processing - transported to North America via at least one or two foreign owners in however many countries - for consumption.

Yes, it will make things very, very interesting. It also may become unmanageable.

Case in point: Salmon caught by Japanese long liner and canned by Russians - all at sea - shipped to China as the nearest port and then brought to North America - and sold under a generic label.

Where did it really come from?

Makes for interesting times.

Or, have I got it all wrong?

Cheers,

B.C.
 

Sandhusker

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TimH, "Oh my gawd!!!! I agree with an R-Calf member!!!!!! "

Quick, go wash your hands, light a candle and say 3 Hail Marys! :wink:
 

agman

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Sandhusker said:
Agman, 'Is it not the postion of R- Calf members that imported beef is unsafe. If so, why less tracking on "UNKNOWN"? Would they not have a price advantage through less tracking cost?"

Feel free to post a quote from R-CALF about the safety of imported beef if you have one.

There would be less tracking on "unknown", for obvious reasons - if you traced it, it would then be known! I'm not too worried about their pricing advantage. A good checkoff-funded campaign on buying US BEEF could very well negate that.

Sandhusker, you can fool some of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time but not all the people all of the time. You have to be joking regarding R-Calf members and their cries of unsafe imported beef. If you are that blind another quote from them will do you no good.

Could a "Buy US Beef" offset a concerted campaign by importers to spend their dollars on imported advertising instead of generic advertising which is being done today? Remember, most of your cohorts believe that consumers think all beef is US origin so who gets the most bang for the buck under the current advertising method. I believe the U.S. producer does. Once it is demonstrated clearly in the marketplace that imported beef can develop a stronger consumer allegiance than U.S. produced beef who will you and yours blame then. It appears the cries of packer and retail manipulation will resonate through your crowd anew as no one would accept the failure of their way.
 

Sandhusker

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Agman, "You have to be joking regarding R-Calf members and their cries of unsafe imported beef. If you are that blind another quote from them will do you no good."

If you've got a quote, post it. Otherwise......

Agman, "Could a "Buy US Beef" offset a concerted campaign by importers to spend their dollars on imported advertising instead of generic advertising which is being done today? "

Yes, I have no doubt. Don't you have any faith in the checkoff?

Agman, "Remember, most of your cohorts believe that consumers think all beef is US origin so who gets the most bang for the buck under the current advertising method. I believe the U.S. producer does. "

I believe the multi-national packers benefit the most. The U.S. producer foots the majority of the bill for the honor of having his competitor's product masqueraded as his.

Agman, "Once it is demonstrated clearly in the marketplace that imported beef can develop a stronger consumer allegiance than U.S. produced beef who will you and yours blame then."

What leads you to believe that U.S. beef can't compete at home against the competition? It seems foolish to me that you would give U.S. beef such a vote of no confidence on a website dominated by producers of that very product.

U.S. producers, what do you think of Agman's latest comment?
 

Bill

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Sandhusker said:
Agman, 'Is it not the postion of R- Calf members that imported beef is unsafe. If so, why less tracking on "UNKNOWN"? Would they not have a price advantage through less tracking cost?"

Feel free to post a quote from R-CALF about the safety of imported beef if you have one.

There would be less tracking on "unknown", for obvious reasons - if you traced it, it would then be known! I'm not too worried about their pricing advantage. A good checkoff-funded campaign on buying US BEEF could very well negate that.

They took out an ad in the WASHINGTON POST saying imported beef was unsafe.

From BEEF Cow-Calf weekly

R-CALF Backs Away From Food Safety Claim
The National Meat Association (NMA) filed with the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals its response brief in R-CALF v. USDA. NMA argues there is ample evidence in the record to sustain a finding that USDA's Final Rule presented no substantial risk to human health and that the preliminary injunction should never have been entered.

But, R-CALF's response filed with the Ninth Circuit last week makes this surprising admission, NMA says: "R-CALF USA [has] never argued that there was a great risk to human health from resumed imports of cattle and beef from Canada."

In the aftermath of this statement, NMA is asking: "If R-CALF has never argued there's a great risk to human health from resumed imports, what was the purpose of the advertisement it took out in the Washington Post, which clearly linked the Canadian BSE situation to U.S. beef safety? Don't they believe their own rhetoric?"

NMA says no one may be more surprised than the Billings, MT, District Court that delayed the border reopening on the basis of "an increased risk to human health," even describing a "genuine risk of death for U.S. consumers" in its decision.

"R-CALF's latter-day admission that there is no great risk to human health from resumed imports of Canadian cattle and beef utterly undermines the basis for the District Court's decision," NMA says.

Instead, NMA says R-CALF now claims USDA didn't do a proper quantitative analysis.

"Apparently R-CALF failed to read the Harvard Risk Assessment. Authored by leading world experts, that assessment is the quantitative analysis of risk with which USDA supported its Rule," NMA says.

See the brief at www.nmaonline.org/html/pr4_4_05.htm.
-- NMA's Lean Trimmings newsletter
 
A

Anonymous

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Sandhusker: "Feel free to post a quote from R-CALF about the safety of imported beef if you have one."

What was the purpose of the R-CULT's brief filed in court if not to suggest Canadian beef is unsafe???

What was the purpose of the Washington Post add if not to suggest Canadian beef is unsafe???

Your deception has reached a level bordering on insanity.



~SH~
 

Sandhusker

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~SH~ said:
Sandhusker: "Feel free to post a quote from R-CALF about the safety of imported beef if you have one."

What was the purpose of the R-CULT's brief filed in court if not to suggest Canadian beef is unsafe???

What was the purpose of the Washington Post add if not to suggest Canadian beef is unsafe???

Your deception has reached a level bordering on insanity.



~SH~

So you're telling me that all of our imported beef comes from Canada? Don't we import from Australia, New Zealand, and about 20 other countries? You posted about Canadian beef and made no mention about the other list of countries. That's the problem with some of you anti-R-CALFers, you read something and can't comprehend what you read and then make a misstatement.
 

agman

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Sandhusker said:
Agman, "You have to be joking regarding R-Calf members and their cries of unsafe imported beef. If you are that blind another quote from them will do you no good."

If you've got a quote, post it. Otherwise......


Agman, "Could a "Buy US Beef" offset a concerted campaign by importers to spend their dollars on imported advertising instead of generic advertising which is being done today? "

Yes, I have no doubt. Don't you have any faith in the checkoff?

Agman, "Remember, most of your cohorts believe that consumers think all beef is US origin so who gets the most bang for the buck under the current advertising method. I believe the U.S. producer does. "

I believe the multi-national packers benefit the most. The U.S. producer foots the majority of the bill for the honor of having his competitor's product masqueraded as his.

Agman, "Once it is demonstrated clearly in the marketplace that imported beef can develop a stronger consumer allegiance than U.S. produced beef who will you and yours blame then."

What leads you to believe that U.S. beef can't compete at home against the competition? It seems foolish to me that you would give U.S. beef such a vote of no confidence on a website dominated by producers of that very product.

U.S. producers, what do you think of Agman's latest comment?

repsone..You can track the posts yoursllef, I will not waste my time on somthing so lear and obvious.

Sure I have faith in the checkoff especially when they are using checkoff dollars from importers to advertise generic beef with many of your cohort's saying consumers already believe the beef is from the U.S. Use their dollars to advertise U.S. beef, why not?

Sure, I believe the U.S can compete, I never said we could not. To suggest otherwise is a figment of your R- Calf imagination. That does not mean foreign beef cannot compete as well for the consumer dollar. They will complete and when they have competed in select markets it has been a success. For you and yours to suggest that by labeling beef as U.S. all competition ceases is simply ludicrous.
 

RobertMac

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Agman: "For you and yours to suggest that by labeling beef as U.S. all competition ceases is simply ludicrous."

When all beef is COOL labeled, only then will the competition begin!!!!!! Let's get started.
 

agman

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RobertMac said:
Agman: "For you and yours to suggest that by labeling beef as U.S. all competition ceases is simply ludicrous."

When all beef is COOL labeled, only then will the competition begin!!!!!! Let's get started.

With all do respect you are too removed from the total marketplace to realize how much real competition exits today. If it is already assumed to be U.S. beef, as so many of your cohorts claim, then what diffence will a USA label make? The differentiation is when foreign product is labeld and becomes a novelty item or permanent replacment for U.S. product for some consumers.

I can tell you that when New Zealand product is placed in the counter and labeled as such it outsells U.S. product in those stores. A like situation developed with Australian labeled product. That is not speculation or here-say, rather it is a fact. Whether you believe this is so is immaterial to the consumer. Whether you or I like the situation is also immaterial-the consumer does not care how you or I feel.

It is our responsibility to understand the consumer and why they feel as they do. Then adjust our product to meet their needs, not ours. That is why we are all in the beef business unlike the indoctrination by R-Calf and its members that they are only in the cattle business. That failed belief only shows one's ignorance of the total marketplace. You are too smart RM to wallow in that phony trap for long.
 

HAY MAKER

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agman said:
RobertMac said:
Agman: "For you and yours to suggest that by labeling beef as U.S. all competition ceases is simply ludicrous."

When all beef is COOL labeled, only then will the competition begin!!!!!! Let's get started.

With all do respect you are too removed from the total marketplace to realize how much real competition exits today. If it is already assumed to be U.S. beef, as so many of your cohorts claim, then what diffence will a USA label make? The differentiation is when foreign product is labeld and becomes a novelty item or permanent replacment for U.S. product for some consumers.

I can tell you that when New Zealand product is placed in the counter and labeled as such it outsells U.S. product in those stores. A like situation developed with Australian labeled product. That is not speculation or here-say, rather it is a fact. Whether you believe this is so is immaterial to the consumer. Whether you or I like the situation is also immaterial-the consumer does not care how you or I feel.

It is our responsibility to understand the consumer and why they feel as they do. Then adjust our product to meet their needs, not ours. That is why we are all in the beef business unlike the indoctrination by R-Calf and its members that they are only in the cattle business. That failed belief only shows one's ignorance of the total marketplace. You are too smart RM to wallow in that phony trap for long.

agman as you say......with all due respest I dont visit meat counters often,
but I sure never seen any beef labeled or identified as NEW ZEALAND around here in TX ever, and I doubt you could sell an ounce of it around here ,are you trying to compare TX to new jersy or Boston?.........good luck
 

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