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George

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I am going to post this on political bull - - - but I feel it belongs more mainstream.

I am trying to put together a coherent letter for the local superintendent to present to the school board. John Farquhar helped me get my thoughts concise. This is a very rough draft - - - the facts are all verifiable but I might not have them presented as clearly as I want.






When seconds count Police are only minutes away!

Attn:

I first want to express that I'm as shocked and angered as you are over these school massacres, and believe it would be helpful if we had a discussion on the matter, before it happens here and perhaps some strategies to prevent it.

Most school shootings last around 3-10 minutes the latest one in Florida lasted 6 minutes from the first shot till the shooter abandoned his weapon and fled the building by blending in with the students.

Most areas think that three minutes is a great response time, and in many areas it is, but the bear in mind the event will be well underway before anyone calls 911, at the Aurora shooting the first officer entered the building 90 seconds after the first 911 call came through, they were 85 dead and wounded, and the killer was already out of the building.

Some people feel that a School resource officer being posted at the entry would be a great deterrent but let us surmise that the perpetrator knew there would be one - - - in a strategic move he hides his intentions until he is in close proximity to the officer and takes him out. Now the resource officer is a trip hazard - - - not because of his inaction but because the people in places of responsibility not wanting to address the situation but wanting to appease public opinion placed him in a position of being the first target!

Now the clock has started and in all probability there will be more victims very quickly, in the recent shooting in Florida a football coach ( highly heroic man ) tried to intervene but did not have the needed training or equipment to stop him and then became another casualty . This was repeated by at least 2 other staff members. These people laid down their lives in a futile attempt to save the lives of those around them. 17 students slaughtered & 14 wounded and the perpetrator then made his escape all in less than 6 minutes.

Lets now change the story.

There are currently 18 states that allow school staff to be armed, perhaps one of the best models is the state of Utah, School staff has been allowed to carry concealed, without extra training, or even informing the school, in 2011 Utah allowed anyone with a Utah CPL to enter schools. In 14 years there has been 1 minor accident with a teacher. Only 2 incidents, a failed suicide attempt by a student, and one fight on school property, but outside the building. Two students got in a fight and one was wounded, that's it in the entire state in 14 years.

A program in Ohio has 3 days of training, and since it began in 2013 over 1300 school staff have been trained, certified, and work in 76 of Ohio's 88 counties, there has not been a single accident, or incident in the past 5 years in any of the schools that have armed educators. They do require that they attend all 3 days of training and qualify, and approx 80% pass the course.

Having trained staff along with a uniform RSO gives layered protection, everyone knows the officer, but they do not know which teachers are armed. A good example Feb 2017 a student waited several minutes after he saw the RSO leave the cafeteria and opened fire on 2 students in a love triangle gone bad, he was out of the building before the officer could get back. So he waited till the only person that could stop him was out of sight, this school did not have armed staff, but if it had and was common knowledge that there were unknown members of the staff possibly carrying a firearm, perhaps even Sally the lunch lady, the incident likely would not have occurred. .

From general consensus we know anywhere from 10-27% of the school staff will volunteer, to cover liability they would go through 24-30 hours of training of how to respond to a situation as well as firearms training and trauma rescue training, blood loss is a major concern after the threat is stopped. Some will suggest they have the same training as police officers, but that is unnecessary, they are being trained for one task - - - to stop an active killer, they do not need knowledge on high speed driving, writing tickets etc, very little of LE training revolves around shooting.

After training is completed normally around 10-20% of the staff is certified, additional training or re-qualification would be at the school's discretion. Now let us return to the Florida shooting, if the third person to come into contact was the coach and he was one of the 10% it is very likely the shooter would have been the 3rd person shot and everything could have been over in less than a minute.

With the way things are handled now the police are the note takers and will completely record what happened for all to read about in history. I repeat when seconds count the police are only minutes away. This leaves decisions to be made - - - how do you want your children protected ?

At a local school district they keep an off duty Sheriff deputy at the main entrance - - - he has a great view of people coming in and thru cameras can monitor most of the school. I did a little exercise and if a shooting happened in the elementary school ( remember Sandy Hook ) it would take between 4 or 5 minutes for the Deputy to reach the breach - - - just in time to record what happened!

Of course the question, how is it funded? In Ohio they hold firearms raffles to raise funds, there is no cost to the school, perhaps some out of pocket cost to staff. The proceeds typically cover the cost of training, ammunition and some of the travel costs for 18-20 staff members..

One very important factor to understand these killers only have one real fear, and that being failure, they are not looking for fights, they are looking to kill and achieve the highest score possible to be famous. Once word gets out that the staff is armed, it in itself will likely curtail any plans on that location.


George W. King Pres.
Greensboro Sand & Gravel
German Shepherd Kingdom
4667 West 350 South
Knightstown, IN. 46148
765-624-9342
www.greensboro-sand-gravel.com
www.germanshepherdkingdom.com

Watch your thoughts, they become your words.
Watch your words, they become your actions.
Watch your actions, they become your habits.
Watch your habits, they become your character.
Watch your character, it becomes your destiny.

John D Farquhar
www.madduckttc.net/ www.gfandr.com
NRA Training Counselor-All Disciplines
SAFTD State Master Instructor-Ohio
RTBAV Regional Counselor
NRA Certified Advanced Pistol Instructor
Glock Certified Instructor


The common trait of old warriors is that they continually sharpen themselves by study, by training, by cultivation of spirit: always striving to be better tomorrow than today.
Warriors who do not do this do not live to be old warriors.

Death smiles at us all, the Sheepdog smiles back.
 
Thanks, I'm glad it is spreading - - - I have gone back over it slowly and corrected spelling and grammer.

I am trying to put together a coherent letter for the local superintendent to present to the school board. John Farquhar helped me get my thoughts concise. This is a very rough draft - - - the facts are all verifiable but I might not have them presented as clearly as I want.


When seconds count Police are only minutes away!
I first want to express that I'm as shocked and angered as you are over these school massacres, and believe it would be helpful if we had a discussion on the matter, before it happens here and perhaps some strategies to prevent it.
Most school shootings last around 3-10 minutes the latest one in Florida lasted 6 minutes from the first shot until the shooter abandoned his weapon and fled the building by blending in with the students.
Most areas think that three minutes is a great response time, and in many areas it is, but bear in mind the event will be well underway before anyone calls 911, at the Aurora shooting the first officer entered the building 90 seconds after the first 911 call came through, there were 85 dead and wounded, and the killer was already out of the building.
Some people feel that a School Resource Officer being posted at the entry would be a great deterrent but let us surmise that the perpetrator knew there would be one - - - in a strategic move he hides his intentions until he is in close proximity to the officer and takes him out. Now the School Resource Officer is a trip hazard - - - not because of his inaction but because the people in places of responsibility not wanting to address the situation but wanting to appease public opinion placed him in a position of being the first target!
Now the clock has started and in all probability there will be more victims very quickly, in the recent shooting in Florida a football coach ( highly heroic man ) tried to intervene but did not have the needed training or equipment to stop him and then became another casualty . This was repeated by at least 2 other staff members. These people laid down their lives in a futile attempt to save the lives of those around them. 17 students slaughtered & 14 wounded and the perpetrator then made his escape all in less than 6 minutes.

Lets now change the story.
There are currently 18 states that allow school staff to be armed, perhaps one of the best models is the state of Utah, School staff has been allowed to carry concealed, without extra training, or even informing the school, in 2011 Utah allowed anyone with a Utah CPL to enter schools. In 14 years there has been 1 minor accident with a teacher. Only 2 incidents, a failed suicide attempt by a student, and one fight on school property, but outside the building. Two students got in a fight and one was wounded, that's it in the entire state in 14 years.
A program in Ohio has 3 days of training, and since it began in 2013 over 1300 school staff have been trained, certified, and work in 76 of Ohio's 88 counties. There has not been a single accident, or incident in the past 5 years in any of the schools that have armed educators. They do require that they attend all 3 days of training and qualify, and approx 80% pass the course.
Having trained staff along with a uniform SRO gives layered protection, everyone knows the officer, but they do not know which teachers are armed. A good example Feb 2017 a student waited several minutes after he saw the SRO leave the cafeteria and opened fire on 2 students in a love triangle gone bad. He was out of the building before the officer could get back. So he waited till the only person that could stop him was out of sight, this school did not have armed staff, but if it had and was common knowledge that there were unknown members of the staff possibly carrying a firearm, perhaps even Sally the lunch lady, the incident likely would not have occurred.
From general consensus we know anywhere from 10-27% of the school staff will volunteer. To cover liability they would go through 24-30 hours of training of how to respond to a situation as well as firearms training and trauma rescue training, blood loss is a major concern after the threat is stopped. Some will suggest they have the same training as police officers, but that is unnecessary, they are being trained for one task - - - to stop an active killer, they do not need knowledge on high speed driving, writing tickets etc, very little of LE training revolves around shooting.
After training is completed normally around 10-20% of the staff is certified, additional training or re-qualification would be at the school's discretion. Now let us return to the Florida shooting, if the third person to come into contact was the coach and he was one of the 10% it is very likely the shooter would have been the 3rd person shot and everything could have been over in less than a minute.
With the way things are handled now the police are the note takers and will completely record what happened for all to read about in history. I repeat when seconds count Police are only minutes away. This leaves decisions to be made - - - how do you want your children protected?
At a local school district they keep an off duty Sheriff Deputy at the main entrance - - - he has a great view of people coming in and thru cameras can monitor most of the school. I did a little exercise and if a shooting happened in the elementary school ( remember Sandy Hook ) it would take between 4 or 5 minutes for the Deputy to reach the breach - - - just in time to record what happened!
Of course the question, how is it funded? In Ohio they hold firearms raffles to raise funds, there is no cost to the school, perhaps some out of pocket cost to staff. The proceeds typically cover the cost of training, ammunition and some of the travel costs for 18-20 staff members.
One very important factor to understand these killers only have one real fear, and that being failure, they are not looking for fights, they are looking to kill and achieve the highest score possible to be famous. Once word gets out that the staff is armed, it in itself will likely curtail any plans on that location.
 
FYI I posted this on Fackbook and it was taken down - - - no first amendment on Facebook
 
George said:
FYI I posted this on Fackbook and it was taken down - - - no first amendment on Facebook
Time to abandon something that censors a rational point of view, and it will get worse, not better. Too bad forums like this seem to have lost so many to it.
 
Gorge, there is some merit in what you are proposing. I respectfully disagree about arming teachers and while I disagree I can see some 7', 300 pound 17yo taking a weapon away from a teacher and using it as he pleases. What I still can't understand is how a shooter gained access to a school campus. Do you think anyone would be able to get on an aircraft with a weapon, especially a long gun? Why do we have "open" school campus' that allow anyone to wander on and off the school grounds willy-nilly? Why is no one talking about that?

Further, the AR15 is NOT an assault weapon by todays definition so eliminating "assault weapons" will not solve the problem. I own a couple of semi-auto weapons (Remington 742's) that I inherited from kin folks and the feds are NOT getting them as long as I'm alive, period. So come get them Ms. Pelosi. Having said that I don't believe that an AR15 (semi auto), AR16, AK47, mini Mac or any other fully automatic weapon has a place in civilian hands. They are not hunting weapons and their sole purpose is to kill - other people. And the NRA can kiss my hidey hole.

I am assuming that (besides having their own agenda) the anti gun nuts are concerned about human life? YES? If yes, why are they not concerned about automobile accidents which take MANY, MANY more lives than shootings. If you don't believe that look it up. The gov't keeps records like and the statistics are easy to find.

I applaud you for trying to do something. This crap has to stop. Let me know if I can help.
 
When I first went on the Sheriff's Dept. in 1974 we carried on commercial aircraft all the time - - - and there were no problems - - - the American people are not all dumb - - - if you remember there were 4 aircraft on 9-11-2001 and the people on the fourth aircraft learned what was happening and it was brought to an end.

I believe that if we had not been stopped and there were a few Police flying and the people knew that anyone on the plane might be an armed officer we would not be in this mess - - - anymore I don't fly commercial - - - if my little Cherokee 180 can't get me there my 40 foot Dutch Star will and in either case I do not have to put up with the drama.

I do not have all the answere but I still have faith in the general population of the United States - - - not so much the polititions who feel their only pressing job is to get re-elected and do not give a wit about us - - - just want a good sound bite to get votes and make up excuses for not doing anything.
 
"Having said that I don't believe that an AR15 (semi auto), AR16, AK47, mini Mac or any other fully automatic weapon has a place in civilian hands. They are not hunting weapons and their sole purpose is to kill - other people"

It shouldn't take a Canadian to explain that the 2nd Amendment didn't give US citizens the right to hunt deer.
 
George (and Big Muddy) I am not trying to start an argument, just offering another opinion. Opinions are like elbows, everyone has at least one. Again, I respectfully disagree about the comment as to the reason for the decline in aircraft hijackings. I don't believe it was the armed air marshalls that stopped the carnage but rather the fact that the weapons and nut cases were stopped BEFORE they were able to board. Metal detectors and body searches is the reason folks who want to do harm are not allowed on an airplane. Why not have metal detectors at ONE entrance to a school. No one gets in carrying a gun.

George, I don't fly anymore either. Not afraid. As you said, I refuse to put up with the drama. As far as I'm concerned it was the SOB rag heads that caused me to lose my freedom.

Big, same as above. Just offering an opinion. Do you really believe that when the constitution was written the fathers had any idea that automatic weapons were in the offering to normal human beings? Remember, the smooth bore, black powder, single shot musket, was the only weapon available, public or otherwise. Shooting a deer with an AK47 is like driving a tack with a sledge hammer. Also remember that the constitution says "armed militia". I would assume that armed militia implies some militia training.

Have either one of you ever done any "brain storming" as a way to come up with solutions for a difficult problem? I have used that technique for years in my engineering background and it works! Maybe we should try that and offer up several solutions to the problem.

Thanks for letting me share my opinions.
 
For one thing doing "Due diligence" on information in background checks.In the Texas church shooting the Navyhadn't recorded his discharge due to mental reasons, He had bought a legal gun but background info was incomplete.
Florida shooter had many run ins with the law, why was he cleared to buy a gun?
 
The definition of Militia,

A militia /mɪˈlɪʃə/[1] is generally an army or some other fighting organization of non-professional soldiers, citizens of a nation, or subjects of a state, who can be called upon for military service during a time of need, as opposed to a professional force of regular, full-time military personnel, or historically, members of a warrior nobility class (e.g., knights or samurai). Generally unable to hold ground against regular forces, it is common for militias to be used for aiding regular troops by skirmishing, holding fortifications, or irregular warfare, instead of being used in offensive campaigns by themselves. Militia are often limited by local civilian laws to serve only in their home region, and to serve only for a limited time; this further reduces their use in long military campaigns.

Would the citizens of George Washingtonian"s day not had the same arms as the army.
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
"Having said that I don't believe that an AR15 (semi auto), AR16, AK47, mini Mac or any other fully automatic weapon has a place in civilian hands. They are not hunting weapons and their sole purpose is to kill - other people"

It shouldn't take a Canadian to explain that the 2nd Amendment didn't give US citizens the right to hunt deer.

I was taught that full auto is to gain 'superiority of fire'--rock and roll is to make bad guys get their heads down so you could get yours down.

I was partial to a 3 round burst, an m-16 hung nicely under your armpit with extra strap off your backpack thru the carrying handle. Would come up very nicely and quickly with your hand on the grip, thumb cycling selector. Interestingly, an m16 was safe then semi then auto, an ak you went thru auto to get to semi.

I could shoot a burst of 3--from under armpit, quite accurately--full auto is kinda fun when you're screwing around with free ammo, tactically, I wouldn't miss it. Shooting from the hip, I could hit a barn, providing I was inside and all doors were shut. WWII Remington Rand .45 was similar, but needed smaller barn. But a lovely weapon--ALWAYS worked-- and great club.

I think the ammo expended per confirmed kill (Vietnam) was about 50,000 rounds. Anybody who grew up shooting (and buying their own ammo--lol) knows it an't how many you shoot, it's how many that hit.

I believe in gun ownership and private property rights----But I don't need to have a full auto, a 'bump stock' or an ammo can of 30 round clips.
 
littlejoe said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
"Having said that I don't believe that an AR15 (semi auto), AR16, AK47, mini Mac or any other fully automatic weapon has a place in civilian hands. They are not hunting weapons and their sole purpose is to kill - other people"

It shouldn't take a Canadian to explain that the 2nd Amendment didn't give US citizens the right to hunt deer.

I was taught that full auto is to gain 'superiority of fire'--rock and roll is to make bad guys get their heads down so you could get yours down.

I was partial to a 3 round burst, an m-16 hung nicely under your armpit with extra strap off your backpack thru the carrying handle. Would come up very nicely and quickly with your hand on the grip, thumb cycling selector. Interestingly, an m16 was safe then semi then auto, an ak you went thru auto to get to semi.

I could shoot a burst of 3--from under armpit, quite accurately--full auto is kinda fun when you're screwing around with free ammo, tactically, I wouldn't miss it. Shooting from the hip, I could hit a barn, providing I was inside and all doors were shut. WWII Remington Rand .45 was similar, but needed smaller barn. But a lovely weapon--ALWAYS worked-- and great club.

I think the ammo expended per confirmed kill (Vietnam) was about 50,000 rounds. Anybody who grew up shooting (and buying their own ammo--lol) knows it an't how many you shoot, it's how many that hit.

But I don't need to have a full auto, a 'bump stock' or an ammo can of 30 round clips.


Exactly the point!

Big, I am assuming that you were trying to make a literal statement about the second amendment. No one (NO ONE) would put a group of people in harms way without SOME training. You need to show militia members at least which end of the weapon goes against the shoulder, don't you think? I think Little Joe says it pretty good. Who needs full auto, bump stock and a dozen 30 round clips? Not having one doesn't prevent me from going hunting.
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
The definition of Militia,

A militia /mɪˈlɪʃə/[1] is generally an army or some other fighting organization of non-professional soldiers, citizens of a nation, or subjects of a state, who can be called upon for military service during a time of need, as opposed to a professional force of regular, full-time military personnel, or historically, members of a warrior nobility class (e.g., knights or samurai). Generally unable to hold ground against regular forces, it is common for militias to be used for aiding regular troops by skirmishing, holding fortifications, or irregular warfare, instead of being used in offensive campaigns by themselves. Militia are often limited by local civilian laws to serve only in their home region, and to serve only for a limited time; this further reduces their use in long military campaigns.

Would the citizens of George Washingtonian"s day not had the same arms as the army.

Exactly the same weapons - that's all that was available unless you categorize rocks and sticks as effective weapons.
 
Sorry if I upset you but while not in daily use the " machine gun " was in use in France almost 100 years before we became a country. the Puckle Gun was patented in 1717.

Lewis and Clark made their exploration mostly due to the inplyed threat that they would use a silent semi automatic rifle if attacked. Go to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pqFyKh-rUI and youwill see that artful deception can be a great tool.

A milita in those days was a gathering of people for a common cause ( to fight an unjust government ) and I am so glad they did just that!

Come up with a great solution and I am all for it - - - but look at what is working now - - - reinventing the wheel might sound great but unless you have a much greater wheel it is just posturing!

I do sometimes lose patience with people who spout the popular retoric without checking the facts. I do not like the fact that there is evil in the world but I recognise that it is true - - - go back to your Bible and remember Satan was once with God but decided to break away - - - he has not given up and will not and as long as he exist eivl will be here in one form or another - - - we either go along with it or fight it- - - I chose to resist.

The armed air marshall are stopping a problem that did not exist when law abiding citizens with concealed weapon permits and law enforcement officers were allowed to carry on planes - - - when they were banned was when the terrorist felt brave enough to act. The government is very good at proposing solutions to problems they create!

Thomas Jefferson said the government does not grant us our rights it is to reaffirm our God given rights!
 
lavacarancher said:
George (and Big Muddy) I am not trying to start an argument, just offering another opinion. Opinions are like elbows, everyone has at least one. Again, I respectfully disagree about the comment as to the reason for the decline in aircraft hijackings. I don't believe it was the armed air marshalls that stopped the carnage but rather the fact that the weapons and nut cases were stopped BEFORE they were able to board. Metal detectors and body searches is the reason folks who want to do harm are not allowed on an airplane. Why not have metal detectors at ONE entrance to a school. No one gets in carrying a gun.

George, I don't fly anymore either. Not afraid. As you said, I refuse to put up with the drama. As far as I'm concerned it was the SOB rag heads that caused me to lose my freedom.

Big, same as above. Just offering an opinion. Do you really believe that when the constitution was written the fathers had any idea that automatic weapons were in the offering to normal human beings? Remember, the smooth bore, black powder, single shot musket, was the only weapon available, public or otherwise. Shooting a deer with an AK47 is like driving a tack with a sledge hammer. Also remember that the constitution says "armed militia". I would assume that armed militia implies some militia training.

Have either one of you ever done any "brain storming" as a way to come up with solutions for a difficult problem? I have used that technique for years in my engineering background and it works! Maybe we should try that and offer up several solutions to the problem.

Thanks for letting me share my opinions.

Lavacarancher I respectfully ask you to think about what you said, about the founding fathers of this country. They also didn't know of a world where you and I can communicate in an internet forum or over cell phones, when we are states away from each other. Would that then mean the 1st amendment doesn't cover free speech, because the internet or cell phones didn't exist? The founders of this nation knew what an oppressive, cruel government was, as they had come to America to escape tyranny, in its highest form. They crafted the 2nd amendment to ensure that the citizens of this country, would always have the means protect themselves. From criminals, from foreign enemies and even from the tyranny that may someday come from their own government. While I do not own a black rifle, i.e. AR-15, it isn't up to me or you, or anyone, to decide which weapon, is covered by the 2nd amendment. It gives us the freedom to "bear arms". Cain killed Able with a rock. Evil exists in this world. Blaming the gun simply doesn't make any sense. Blaming the culture of glorifying violence in Hollywood and in video games does! Blaming taking God out of the public and schools and homes does! Blaming gun free zones, where cowards know they have many unarmed targets does! Arming teachers who want to be trained, especially those with law enforcement and military backgrounds does! Increasing security at schools does! And many other things make more sense than blaming a gun. If a drunk driver kills a family on the highway, and he happened to be driving a chevy Silverado 2500 pickup truck, would we ban the truck? I respect your opinion and want you to know that I am heartbroken that we keep dealing with these shootings. But that AR-15 didn't kill one of those kids and teachers. The finger pulling the trigger did! Until we deal with the person attached to that finger and what got him to the point of pulling it, we will continue to have them happen.

For what its worth, my wife teaches at a rural school. Most of the time the nearest deputy sheriff is 30 minutes away. We have waited 45 minutes for law enforcement to respond to serious criminal activity in the past. One man pulled a pistol in our local gas station and threatened to kill everyone. Then he carjacked an older couple and forced them to drive him back toward the big city. It took an hour for multiple jurisdictions to find and arrest him! The differences between a huge inner city school and a tiny rural high school are unbelievable. The is simply no "one-size fits all" legislation that will ever correct this issue. Utah saw that and passed legislation that allows teaches to get a concealed weapons permit. Not one gun has been taken away by a student. And how will we measure the shootings that don't happen because a kid is scared to shoot at people, who may shoot back?
 
Leanin', Yea, I agree that it wasn't the weapon that killed all those beautiful children in Florida. Neither is the car that kills more than 30,000 people a year. I also agree that the purpose of the second amendment is to protect citizens against a bad government. But the second amendment does NOT give a person (any person) the right to walk onto a school campus (or Nevada hotel) and kill innocent people. The weapon of choice is irrelevant. I think folks are hysterical about these incidents and jump on the band wagon about almost anything. Let's clear something up. 1) I don't own an "assault weapon" of any kind. I don't need one. Couldn't afford to shoot one. Don't get my kicks out of shooting one. It is not a hunting weapon. 2) Yes, I am a sportsman. I take a certain amount of pride in "one shot, one kill" at 200 yds. type of hunting for FOOD. If it ever came to defending our country from a tyrannical government I think I could do pretty good with the arsenal I have. If it ever came to a government take over it probably wouldn't be done by a foot shoulder anyway. I think there are several million like thinking individuals in this country that could prevent a take over with rock and sticks and not even have a fully automatic 30 round clip painted black weapon. Probably most of those folks would be military people who would not do something like that anyway.

Lets get by the histrionics for a second. I don't think you and I are that far apart. Here's what I think should be done.
1. Prevent people carrying weapons (of any kind) from getting past the front door of a school. Technology already available and in use.
2. Restrict access to a school - one way in, several ways out. Readily doable. Already being done at airports. Air marshals not a deterrent.
3. Age restrictions on purchase of weapons (black weapons). How many teenagers do you know that have the brains to use their pecker for anything other than sex, let alone own a black weapon. No downside.
4.Background checks for purchase of black weapons (any weapon). I thought this was already in place. Why is it not? Very difficult to do effectively

Please add to the list. Lets make this a discussion instead of getting into the pissed off mode. I would like to see a well thought out response from you and anyone else. Please remember I am a second amendment believer but I am also a believer that killing kids in a school has to be stopped.
 

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