My thoughts on the re-election of Obama

[Whitewing]

Well, despite Steve's assurances that $200 oil is nowhere in sight, one minor skirmish in one certain part of the world and we could be there tomorrow morning.

$10/gallon gasoline. Someone here going to try to convince me that the US economy just keeps rolling along at that level?

and the skirmish has nothing to do with whether we have abundant resources..

Indeed, but I've not argued that we don't have abundant resources. Please try to stay on target. I've argued that we'll soon run out of CHEAP OIL and you've not yet laid out how I'm wrong.

Spending billions on coal-to-oil liquification plants, mining shale oil in the friendly environment of Alaska (and yes, it's generally mined), and fraccing abandonded oil plays is not going to give us CHEAP OIL once the production decline begins. That's my point.....CHEAP OIL GOES AWAY....US economy changes drastically.

 

[hypocritexposer]

I wonder how they superheat that coal to 2000 degrees? Anyone ask? Oh, and anyone have several billion dollars lying around? I'd like to build one of those.

Now, wrap your mind around the concept of bringing these things on line while your country's economy is going to hell in a hand basket because its been choked off by high gasoline prices. CHEAP OIL......remember those words.

I wish I could find that chart I once had, (I think I posted it here once) and the correlation to economic growth and the price of "cheap oil"


When the US was the producer of "cheap oil", was the "economic boom" for the Country


I'll have a look and see if I can find it again.

 

[Whitewing]

It raises an exciting possibility -- instead of destructively mining coal, burning it, and emitting CO2 as a greenhouse gas, what if we left it in the ground and seeded it with bacteria and CO2? Could we turn the planet's vast coal reserves into a form of renewable energy?

Turds in one hand, exciting possibilities in the other before the cheap oil-based US economy tanks.

I vote turds.

 

[Steve]

Bioconversion of In-Situ Coal to Methane: Microbes Used to Convert Coal to Gaseous Fuel

The company has coined the term "geobioreactors" to describe the microbial conversion of coals, organic shales, or oil to methane gas, and believes careful management may offer a long-term solution to U.S. energy needs.

"Our research on native coal, water and microbial samples from the Powder River Basin (PRB) has determined that PRB coals can produce natural gas in real time," said Robert Pfeiffer, Luca's president and chief executive officer.

"This finding suggests that the (methane) gas in the PRB need not be an ancient remnant of microbial activity, as generally believed, but instead is being actively created today."

Luca scientists say that methane production can be increased or decreased by altering the microbes' access to water or nutrients, or that production can be halted entirely by exposing the organisms to oxygen or heat sterilization.

Luca Technologies has raised $76 million to scale up a process that uses coal-digesting microorganisms to convert coal into methane. The process is designed to operate underground, inside coal beds.

As little as one-hundredth of 1 percent of the coal in the United States converted into methane by microbes would supply the country's current annual natural-gas demands,

The researchers at Luca have learned to increase the amount of methane that these microorganisms produce, both in laboratory experiments and inside coal beds, by adding various nutrients and otherwise changing the chemistry of the microbes' living environment.

darn little buggers might just save US yet.... :shock:

 

[Whitewing]

I wonder how they superheat that coal to 2000 degrees? Anyone ask? Oh, and anyone have several billion dollars lying around? I'd like to build one of those.

Now, wrap your mind around the concept of bringing these things on line while your country's economy is going to hell in a hand basket because its been choked off by high gasoline prices. CHEAP OIL......remember those words.

I wish I could find that chart I once had, (I think I posted it here once) and the correlation to economic growth and the price of "cheap oil"


When the US was the producer of "cheap oil", was the "economic boom" for the Country

Of course it was. And it's how we justified building millions of track homes in the deserts of California for millions of single-occuupant cars to commute 2 hours one way every day to work in LA and other big cites.

All that is but a single price shock away from imploding.

 

[Steve]

Well, despite Steve's assurances that $200 oil is nowhere in sight, one minor skirmish in one certain part of the world and we could be there tomorrow morning.

$10/gallon gasoline. Someone here going to try to convince me that the US economy just keeps rolling along at that level?

and the skirmish has nothing to do with whether we have abundant resources..

Indeed, but I've not argued that we don't have abundant resources. Please try to stay on target. I've argued that we'll soon run out of CHEAP OIL and you've not yet laid out how I'm wrong.

Spending billions on coal-to-oil liquification plants, mining shale oil in the friendly environment of Alaska (and yes, it's generally mined), and fraccing abandonded oil plays is not going to give us CHEAP OIL once the production decline begins. That's my point.....CHEAP OIL GOES AWAY....US economy changes drastically.

actually your argument was to re-elect turdbama.. as for the oil
running out,... it will not happen in the next four years...

 

[hypocritexposer]

Just smoe quick searches based on WW's opinions......

Recession: We Are Hitting an Economic Growth Ceiling Caused by Limited Cheap Oil

http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/gail-tverberg/2011/08/12/recession-we-are-hitting-an-economic-growth-ceiling-caused-by-limited-cheap-oil

LECTURE 5: ECONOMIC GROWTH
(AND CHEAP OIL)

Introduction
In this lecture I suggest that the primary missing ingredient in growth theory (and for that
matter in much of macro-economic theory) is the role of natural resources, materials, energy
and work. It is curious, in my view, that most neoclassical growth models assume a
unidirectional causality, viz. that natural resource consumption and use are strictly determined
by the level of economic activity, but that resource consumption – and its consequences,
including declining costs of extraction and processing – do not affect economic growth in
return

http://www.cge.uevora.pt/aspo2005/abscom/ASPO2005_Ayres.pdf

 

[Whitewing]

My argument was that total capitulation of the US economy under an Obama presidency would, in the long run, be better for the country than total capitulation of the US economy under some pseudo-conservative president dressed like a pub.

Obama can do it with or without CHEAP OIL. That was my original point. Get it done now before the oil market does it for us.

 

[hypocritexposer]

My argument was that total capitulation of the US economy under an Obama presidency would, in the long run, be better for the country than total capitulation of the US economy under some pseudo-conservative president dressed like a pub.

Obama can do it with or without CHEAP OIL. That was my original point. Get it done now before the oil market does it for us.

I myself have struggled a bit with the same thought. Let the Democrats take the fall or try to fix the situation, before it is too late.


Is the US past the point of putting the breaks on, before they go over the cliff, or will they only apply the breaks, to skid over the cliff.

difficult question to answer.

 

[Whitewing]

I obviously think the stage is set for a huge economic downturn in the US, hence my original post. And sitting here in far-away Venezuela, I don't really see much difference in the "opposition" field and Obama and the donks who support him.

No one seems to be looking at gathering storm clouds and preparing for what's coming. So, in my view, give Obama a second term...a "mandate" if you will and he will most certainly destroy the US economy as we know it. Elect a Romney and it will likely get destroyed anyway by an oil price shock. We're on the cusp now as I see it.

Might as well be the Chosen One at the helm when it happens. Voters will either get their minds right and finally elect someone serious about the out-of-control spenders in DC, or the country just becomes another welfare state like much of Europe with new Chinese puppet-masters.

 

[Steve]

Just some quick searches based on WW's opinions......

Quote:
Recession: We Are Hitting an Economic Growth Ceiling Caused by Limited Cheap Oil

if everything stayed the same.. he would be right.. and we would be typing a letter to each other and waiting days for a reply... well weeks if the horse was slow..


technology and investment will come into play at any economic price point for crude..

at $10 the suadis will keep pumping... but few others...

between $65 and $100 oil and gas exploration will continue at a fast pace..

somewhere around $125 congress and the President panic...

at $150. the public demands action...

by $175.. we would be putting a national effort into getting gas.. (aka Alaska pipeline projects).

by $200 several other sources of fuel would be viable..

would it hurt our economy.. yes.. but if the President takes action now or soon .. and puts in the right energy policy that balances the needs of the economy with strategic investment in our own resources.. the world oil price would not hurt our economy in fact.. it would help our economy..

if we exploited our resources and dollar policy,... high world oil prices would actually help our economy..

but we just wasted four years with a clueless community organizer..


I would rather walk then waste four more on the same guy...

 

[Whitewing]

Yes Steve, and if if was a skiff we could all take a ride.

Good night folks. I've enjoyed the stimulating debate. 8)

 

[hypocritexposer]

Just some quick searches based on WW's opinions......

Quote:
Recession: We Are Hitting an Economic Growth Ceiling Caused by Limited Cheap Oil

if everything stayed the same.. he would be right.. and we would be typing a letter to each other and waiting days for a reply... well weeks if the horse was slow..


technology and investment will come into play at any economic price point for crude..

at $10 the suadis will keep pumping... but few others...

between $65 and $100 oil and gas exploration will continue at a fast pace..

somewhere around $125 congress and the President panic...

at $150. the public demands action...

by $175.. we would be putting a national effort into getting gas.. (aka Alaska pipeline projects).

by $200 several other sources of fuel would be viable..

would it hurt our economy.. yes.. but if the President takes action now or soon .. and puts in the right energy policy that balances the needs of the economy with strategic investment in our own resources.. the world oil price would not hurt our economy in fact.. it would help our economy..

if we exploited our resources and dollar policy,... high world oil prices would actually help our economy..

but we just wasted four years with a clueless community organizer..


I would rather walk then waste four more on the same guy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY2-Fxu9078

 

[Whitewing]

Steve, since I know you like to research topics such as the one we've discussed here, do this bit of research. See if you can verify whether or not the discovery of new reserves and production from those reservoirs is keeping up with daily world-wide demand.

Last I checked, the world was producing/consuming about 85 million barrels of oil per day with projections that in 10 years we'd need 120 million barrels per day just to remain where we are AND provide for the growing economies of China, India, etc.

If we're finding enough oil to replace the reserves we're depleting and provide for future growth, then everything is fine. If we're not, something's gonna give eventually.

 

[Steve]

Steve, since I know you like to research topics such as the one we've discussed here, do this bit of research. See if you can verify whether or not the discovery of new reserves and production from those reservoirs is keeping up with daily world-wide demand.

Last I checked, the world was producing/consuming about 85 million barrels of oil per day with projections that in 10 years we'd need 120 million barrels per day just to remain where we are AND provide for the growing economies of China, India, etc.

If we're finding enough oil to replace the reserves we're depleting and provide for future growth, then everything is fine. If we're not, something's gonna give eventually.

by taking some of our needs off the world oil supply and putting them towards other resources we have in abundance. (natural gas). we would increase our ability to thrive when others are still buying expensive oil.. especially if we exploited our own oil..

but that would still require us to drill more and drill now....

if you believe Obama.. our own oil demand is dropping ..
and will continue to..

 

[Whitewing]

if you believe Obama.. our own oil demand is dropping ..
and will continue to..

And he could be correct. If he continues to do what it takes to maintain national unemployment rates above 8% for a few more years, then the US economy probably will use less oil.