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NCBA for sale

Sandhusker

Well-known member
NCBA supposedly represents U.S. cattle producers. But producers wonder why the group fights fair markets for producers in favor of meat packers. More pointedly, why do they lie? Indeed, can you remember when NCBA has ever taken a position contrary to the American Meat Institute?

Alan Guebert gives the answer:

For example, the NCBA's "Allied Industry Partners" list (as noted at http://www.beefusa.org/affialliedindustrypartners.aspx) is a virtual who's who--other than cattlemen, of course -- of the red meat industry: Cargill, Tyson, Elanco, etc., etc.

And, as the Web site notes, one only lands on the list via the company checkbook. "Gold level sponsors," the NCBA helpfully explains, must make a "minimum $100,000 investment" in -- wait for it -- the NCBA.

Investment is a very pleasant word to describe what the loot actually buys. Influence, credibility and lobbying cover is a less pleasant, more accurate description what the relatively puny corporate cash really buys.

And Guebert artfully shows how the prostitution dynamic works:

The sell-out of these commodity groups brings to mind a story Winston Churchill loved to tell about how he once asked some comely partygoer if she would allow him "favors" in return for a large sum of money. She quickly agreed. Churchill then asked if he would receive the same favors for a fraction of the earlier sum.

Sir, asked the now-indignant lady, what do you take me for?

"Madam," Churchill coolly replied, "we've already established what you are. The question we're presently attempting to answer is price."

The price is apparently $100K, but I suspect there can be discounts.
 

mrj

Well-known member
Guebert obviously has lots of time to look up cutesy quotes, since he apparently spends little talking to real world cattle producers or doing valid research on his subjects.

Where he likes to point to 'boogey-men' or 'sell-outs', common sense would indicate helping an organization with dollars which 'buys' access to thousands of cattle producer members, many of whom get convinced to buy products from those Allied Industry Partners.

Let's see now, who is it who hosts and accomplishes virtually all fundraisers for R-CALF.......oh yes, the auction barn owners......they do an amazing job of parting the R-CALF members from their own money. What are they getting in return but blind support for legislation limiting cattle producers choices in marketing their cattle!

mrj
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
mrj said:
Guebert obviously has lots of time to look up cutesy quotes, since he apparently spends little talking to real world cattle producers or doing valid research on his subjects.

Where he likes to point to 'boogey-men' or 'sell-outs', common sense would indicate helping an organization with dollars which 'buys' access to thousands of cattle producer members, many of whom get convinced to buy products from those Allied Industry Partners.

Let's see now, who is it who hosts and accomplishes virtually all fundraisers for R-CALF.......oh yes, the auction barn owners......they do an amazing job of parting the R-CALF members from their own money. What are they getting in return but blind support for legislation limiting cattle producers choices in marketing their cattle!

mrj

MRJ, I've provided the exact wording from the damn farm bill itself and you still stick to spouting horsecrap! Why don't you try some of that "valid research" yourself?
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
MRJ, "Where he likes to point to 'boogey-men' or 'sell-outs', common sense would indicate helping an organization with dollars which 'buys' access to thousands of cattle producer members, many of whom get convinced to buy products from those Allied Industry Partners."

And now the "Rest of the Story".......

From the NCBA website:

As a group, the Allied Industry Council will be eligible for a number of board and committee seats BASED UPON TOTAL INVESTMENT by the Allied Industry Council members. Council members have the opportunity to vote for the AIC reps to serve on the NCBA Board and committees.

As a group, the Allied Industry Council may appoint one representative to serve as an ex-officio member of the NCBA Executive Committee.

Look at that, MRJ. Not only can you buy into NCBA with your corporate dollars, the more you "invest", the more board and committee seats you get! Now how in the world can you claim there is no sell-out?! If NCBA is a "producer driven" group as you claim, why does $100,000 get you a board and/or committee seat? Are you going to tell me that it is producers ponying up the $100K?
 

mrj

Well-known member
Sandhusker, before I can reply with any hope of accuracy to your charges I need a link and to know exactly where you saw what you claim. There are several NCBA web sites, but the one where I found the Allied Industry Directory didn't show anything but the names.

It does not jibe with what I know and is confusing because the your claim of seats on the board based on investment sounds more like the state beef councils means of gaining extra seats if they give part of their state share of money to national programs.

Unless you provide a link, or state exactly where you found that 'information', I really have no idea what you are talking about.

mrj
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Provide a link? I seriously have to ask “Why”? I provided you exact wording from the Farm Bill, yet you insist on spreading the untruthful gospel of NCBA on that. You’ve got a patented routine of explaining away NCBA’s ball-droppings with reasoning that defies all logic and any sense of abstract thought. Getting you to understand what NCBA is actually doing is an exercise in futility, to say you’ve “Drank the Kool-aid” is an understatement - you’re swimming in it. I wasn’t asking you for your input or an explanation, I’m capable of reading and comprehension. My post was for the benefit of others.

My advice to you if you seek the truth is to call NCBA and ask someone. Asking questions would be a refreshing change of pace from simply accepting without questioning as you’ve been doing. You need to ask a lot of questions, you’re years behind. Ask why Truitt is gone. Ask why the 3 VPs are gone. Ask why only the AMI shares 99% of NCBA’s positions. Ask why NCBA supports positions that cost US producers money. Ask if the big packers are still going to be our “partners in industry” when they replace US beef with South American. Seek and ye shall find, MRJ – and the truth will set you free.
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
mrj said:
Guebert obviously has lots of time to look up cutesy quotes, since he apparently spends little talking to real world cattle producers or doing valid research on his subjects.

Where he likes to point to 'boogey-men' or 'sell-outs', common sense would indicate helping an organization with dollars which 'buys' access to thousands of cattle producer members, many of whom get convinced to buy products from those Allied Industry Partners.

Let's see now, who is it who hosts and accomplishes virtually all fundraisers for R-CALF.......oh yes, the auction barn owners......they do an amazing job of parting the R-CALF members from their own money. What are they getting in return but blind support for legislation limiting cattle producers choices in marketing their cattle!
mrj


Here is what happens when we lose our free and open capitalistic live cattle auction markets.....

Alan Guebert said:
Since 1980, the number of U.S. hog farmers has dropped from 667,000 to 67,000 while the percentage of hogs grown under contract to packers has risen from virtually zero to more than 70. Those two numbers are as related as ham and beans.

And poultry? Ninety-nine percent of growers produce under a packer contract or they simply don’t produce.

mrj, this is what the companies on NCBA's Allied Industry Council have done in the other protein industries...why would you think they don't want to do the same in the cattle/beef industry???????

When you have to have a contract with a packer in order to sell your calves, that will be "limiting cattle producers choices in marketing their cattle!"
You drive-by NCBAers had better wake up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

mrj

Well-known member
RobertMac, what is a "drive-by NCBAer"?

Also, when are you going to recognize that today a farmer can produce far more than one did in 1900, or even in 1950, for that matter?

Why do you want to return to the days when one farmer could feed his own family and maybe a few more people when today one farmer produces enough for more than a hundred people, and those non-farm people in the USA can spend less than 10% of their incomes to buy all their food?

BTW, I visited with a couple of those poor downtrodden "contract farmers" raising birds and hogs in the south eastern USA not too long ago. They were enjoying time in a big city and stated that they do very well raising those critters for 'the man'. My guess is that is the case for most of them.

Luddites have been predicting the "serfdom" of the US farmer for most of my lifetime. The sky hasn't fallen yet!

mrj
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
mrj said:
RobertMac, what is a "drive-by NCBAer"?

A good conservative would know the answer.

Also, when are you going to recognize that today a farmer can produce far more than one did in 1900, or even in 1950, for that matter?

What does this have to do with "limiting cattle producers choices in marketing their cattle"?

Why do you want to return to the days when one farmer could feed his own family and maybe a few more people when today one farmer produces enough for more than a hundred people, and those non-farm people in the USA can spend less than 10% of their incomes to buy all their food?

What does this have to do with "limiting cattle producers choices in marketing their cattle"?

And if you are going to try to insinuate what I think, bring some proof or stick to your thoughts!


BTW, I visited with a couple of those poor downtrodden "contract farmers" raising birds and hogs in the south eastern USA not too long ago. They were enjoying time in a big city and stated that they do very well raising those critters for 'the man'. My guess is that is the case for most of them.

Luddites have been predicting the "serfdom" of the US farmer for most of my lifetime. The sky hasn't fallen yet!

Because in the past we have had strong, independent minded producers that weren't afraid to fight for free market capitalism. Being a contract producer where all production protocols and the price are dictated by "the man" isn't my idea of being a free, independent businessman. You don't understand that the money in this business is in turning a live animal into a sellable product, BEEF, and selling that beef...if this isn't so, why are these large corporations trying to gain control of this segment of the industry??????

mrj

Alan Guebert said:
Since 1980, the number of U.S. hog farmers has dropped from 667,000 to 67,000 while the percentage of hogs grown under contract to packers has risen from virtually zero to more than 70. Those two numbers are as related as ham and beans.

And poultry? Ninety-nine percent of growers produce under a packer contract or they simply don’t produce.


mrj, this is what the companies on NCBA's Allied Industry Council have done in the other protein industries...why would you think they don't want to do the same in the cattle/beef industry???????
Answer this one, please.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Companies that are on NCBA’s “Allied Industry Partners” list are the same companies that have made independent hog producers an endangered species and independent poultry producers extinct. They are pushing policies that will put US producers in the same situation, yet NCBA labels them “Partners”, takes huge checks from them, and gives them seats at the policy table! Then you have members like MRJ who defend that by saying, “We all have to work together …..” We all have to work together to do what, chickenize the industry? That must be what they mean because that is the road being traveled.

I’ll make the argument that NCBA threatens the future of producers more than the AMI or foreign interests do. At least with the others, you know exactly who they are representing, their agenda, and why they are doing what that do. The NCBA claims to represent US producers and too many take them for their word but don’t look to see who is actually steering policy and benefiting from it. They are far from as advertised.
 

mrj

Well-known member
Sandhusker, you still haven't showed me where you found that information you say is on the NCBA website so that I may understand what you are talking about.

You boys calling names, assigning blame, and generally cutting down the people and groups who are busy feeding the world need to present some proof, not just your say so.

mrj
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
mrj said:
Sandhusker, you still haven't showed me where you found that information you say is on the NCBA website so that I may understand what you are talking about.

You boys calling names, assigning blame, and generally cutting down the people and groups who are busy feeding the world need to present some proof, not just your say so.

mrj

By choice you're not going to understand it anyway, MRJ. As I said before, judging how you reacted to being provided proof on the farm bill and other times that NCBA "misspoke", I don't see the use. I understood what it said and I'm sure everybody else who read it understood it as well. You've never accepted anything I've provided yet, so I again suggest you call NCBA directly. Give them what I posted here word for word.

I'm not cutting down the big packers that NCBA "partners" with. They're just doing what every corporation is supposed to do; make as much money as they can for their shareholders. I see what they're doing and why, it's completely understandable and even expected.

Here's a basic economics lesson for you, MRJ. Wealth is not created nor destroyed, it is transfered. Corporations are created to transfer wealth to their shareholders. In order to do that, wealth has to be transfered to the corporation itself. In mature industries such as the beef industry, growth opportunities are limited, so corps. often look sideways (buy out their competition), downstream (buy out the industries that take their product to the next level such as trucking firms, processers, retailers, etc....) or they look upstream (their suppliers). They've been going sideways about as far as they can go as the beef industry is super consolidated now. Now they're looking downstream at the cattle industry.

They're looking at the cattle industry because that cuts their costs of raw materials. Remembering that wealth is transfered, just where the hell do you think that wealth is going to be transfered FROM? That is the core of my problem with NCBA. They should be fighting that transferal of wealth, but instead, they are facilitating it! NCBA is being played like a two-bit fiddle by the multi-nationals and it's so terribly obvious! I get so dang disgusted and mad I just want to choke somebody.

And what really tops the cake is this crap just happened in the hog and poultry markets just recently right here under our noses! Just what is so hard to figure out about what is going on? :mad:
 

Mike

Well-known member
mrj said:
Sandhusker, you still haven't showed me where you found that information you say is on the NCBA website so that I may understand what you are talking about.

You boys calling names, assigning blame, and generally cutting down the people and groups who are busy feeding the world need to present some proof, not just your say so.

mrj

I found it in about two seconds.........

I typed the whole paragraph into a search engine, hit enter and there it was staring me in the face.

Maxine you have no excuses to not find it............................ :roll: :roll:
 

mrj

Well-known member
Thank you for your help. I'm not very computer literate yet.

Sorry that your mother failed to raise you as a Southern gentleman. It is your loss, as well as that of society, judging by what I've observed from those in the Southen branch of my family.

mrj
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Well, Mike, now that it has been established that you're just a white trash cracker, lets move on....

When you found the site, were you able to understand what was written? What was your take?
 

PORKER

Well-known member
Could these be the connected companies;

There are currently seven participating associate institutions of the LMIC. Associate members represent the American Farm Bureau Federation, American Sheep Industry Association, Chicago Mercantile Exchange, Consortium of Canadian Extension (Agriculture departments of Alberta, Manitoba and Saskatchewan), National Cattlemen’s Beef Association, National Pork Producers Council, and the Noble Foundation Agricultural Division.
 

mrj

Well-known member
OK, boys, I've tried to be fair here.

Sandhusker, you accuse NCBA of "selling out" with Allied Industry organizations buying seats on the board. I asked for a link to show that specific information you say is on the beefusa website because I did not see it.

Mike chimes in and says he "found it in about two seconds...typed the whole paragraph into a search engine....and there it was.."

However, he did NOT say WHICH paragraph he typed in, nor where it was found!

The best I could find by Google search for "NCBA Allied INdustry perks" was a page listing just that.......the access to members via the TV show, magazine, workshops etc. but NOTHING about buying any seats on the board of directors. There was something about an (meaning 'one') seat on the allied industry council which, I believe is different than an actual seat on the board of NCBA.

Sandhusker, you go off on yet another rant over my 'failure' to think just like you do about the Competition Title in the Farm Bill and general 'corporate facism', when the original complaint against NCBA, of this thread, was allowing CORPORATIONS to be associate, or allied, memers of the organization.

Then you have the nerve to blast ME for reacting to Mikes' digs at me????

Porker, I'm not sure what you mean by "the connected companies".

Did you mean some of the "allied industry partners" of NCBA?

Some of those are Bayer, Cargill Animal NUtrition Div., Dow AgroSciences, Elanco Animal Health, Ft. Dodge, John Deere, Micro Beef Technologies, Pfizer, Purina, Schering-Plough, AginfLink,Beef Magazine, Farm&RanchHealthcare Heartland Alliance of America, Ridley Block Operations, Priefert, Walco, Ag. Engineering Associates, Alltech, AniPro, CAB, AHB........and more.

mrj
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
Alan Guebert said:
Since 1980, the number of U.S. hog farmers has dropped from 667,000 to 67,000 while the percentage of hogs grown under contract to packers has risen from virtually zero to more than 70. Those two numbers are as related as ham and beans.

And poultry? Ninety-nine percent of growers produce under a packer contract or they simply don’t produce.



mrj, this is what the companies on NCBA's Allied Industry Council have done in the other protein industries...why would you think they don't want to do the same in the cattle/beef industry???????
Answer this one, please.

And...Why do you think some 600,000 pork producers when out of business?
If NCBA is successful at shutting down all the evil LMA/R-CALF supporting auction barns and 70% of cattle are grown under contract, couldn't one assume that some 750,000 cattle producers would suffer the same fate as those hog producers??????

A drive-by NCBAer is a member that is too ashamed to defend their organization or throws out a post and then runs and hides when it is responded to!!!!
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Sandhusker, you accuse NCBA of "selling out" with Allied Industry organizations buying seats on the board. I asked for a link to show that specific information you say is on the beefusa website because I did not see it.

Again, why bother? Your answer will be the same as it always is on NCBA. Here, let me answer for you so we can move on; "NCBA is a great and wonderful producer driven organization that is concerned with producer's profitability. To say that they are less than perfect is only your opinion." Did I miss anything?

Sandhusker, you go off on yet another rant over my 'failure' to think just like you do about the Competition Title in the Farm Bill and general 'corporate facism', when the original complaint against NCBA, of this thread, was allowing CORPORATIONS to be associate, or allied, memers of the organization.

I provided that title of the Farm Bill to you word for word and asked you to point out where you got your "opinion'. You wouldn't do it. You got your "opinion" from NCBA, not yourself. You wouldn't point any part out because you couldn't. I'll give you another chance to prove me wrong. A cut and paste job will be fine.

Then you have the nerve to blast ME for reacting to Mikes' digs at me????

Mike is the one that I called the Cracker!
 

Mike

Well-known member
mrj said:
Thank you for your help. I'm not very computer literate yet.

Sorry that your mother failed to raise you as a Southern gentleman. It is your loss, as well as that of society, judging by what I've observed from those in the Southen branch of my family.

mrj

Only a witch would take someone helping them as reason to denigrate.

But then again that may not be fair to all the other witches in the world. :shock:
 
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