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NCBA Opposes M'ID

Mike

Well-known member
I have always been led to believe R-Calf is responsible for killing M'ID?

NCBA seeks voluntary animal traceback system

Despite McDonald's Corporation, the largest U.S. beef buyer, calling for a national animal traceback system, beef industry leaders oppose any mandatory measure.

On Friday, Gary Johnson, senior director worldwide supply chain management at McDonald's Corp., said traceback of beef to cattle is the foundation of the food industry, which depends totally on the trust of consumers for its future operations, according to the Dow Jones newswire.

Animal traceability is the most important thing the cattle industry can do to earn and keep the trust of consumers, Johnson said during a speech at the World Meat Congress in Australia.
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Because of its purchasing power, the worldwide restaurant chain's call for a traceback system could carry a lot of weight.

Johnson's comments didn't include whether the system should be mandatory or voluntary for producers.

In the event of an animal disease outbreak such as BSE, or "mad cow disease," the government would be able to use the traceback system to find any infected animals.

There seems to be widespread agreement within the livestock industry that a traceback system is needed. The issue of whether the government or private industry should oversee the program ois what concerns producers.

Mike John, National Cattlemen's Beef Association (NCBA) president, agrees a traceback system is needed, but remains opposed to a mandatory program.

John argues that if the government intervenes on this traceback issue, the data becomes government property and producers lose control and confidentiality.

"Transaction codes and data from cattle movement events can be put into a system where the government can get to them for disease surveillance. All these things are already available; it's just a matter of choosing the right one for your operation."

Because of current private industry solutions that meet the requirements McDonalds is looking for, John said any traceback system should be voluntary. If anything, the market should drive involvement in this traceback system.

"If producers invest in the system because there is a return to them, they will purchase the tags, they will pay the fees associated with participating with private industry programs," John said.

John pointed out that McDonald's Corporation's request is nothing new.

"As an industry, we have been working for years on a system that will allow us to track the movement of animals within 48 hours of a discovered illness, says John, a Missouri cattleman.

When asked, John still believes the industry should monitor the surveillance program not the government.

"We know the industry still has a problem, as far as managing this surveillance program, because there isn't technology for common use that allows this information to be gathered at the speed of commerce."

However, John said, "The market needs to drive this traceback effort in order to keep producers' costs low and to keep them participating for the right reasons."

Meanwhile, USDA has issued "premise-ID" registrations to 12% of the U.S. livestock premises. Dr. John Weimers, USDA's National ID spokesman, said the voluntary-based program is progressing.

"We're encouraged by the progress. Once the premise registrations are out, it will make it much easier for a national ID system to work."
 

PORKER

Well-known member
We know the industry still has a problem, as far as managing this surveillance program, because there isn't technology for common use that allows this information to be gathered at the speed of commerce."

I heard that when ScoringAg was at a Show ,NCBA never let their people come near the SSI booth,They were embarassed .

However, John said, "The market needs to drive this traceback effort in order to keep producers' costs low and to keep them participating for the right reasons."

ScoringAg has set the price benchmark worldwide and everyone tries to get that low.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I stole this off another Montana ranchers website-Sarpy Sams-- but it sums up pretty much how I feel...Nobody in government has taken into account the time, labor, and actual ability of getting the system to work in actual working conditions (mud, rain, snow, cowsh*t, less than ideal corrals, etc).....How many times are you going to run 500 head thru a chute or alleyway to find which 166 didn't read at a 33% failure rate- even at 6% failure rate- how many times do you cut and rerun to find the missing 30 :roll:

Wonder Tags
Some more interesting information on the "wonder tags," the RFID tags that the Government wants us to use on our cattle for the National Animal Identification System.

BeefTalk: Electronic identification - Two steps ahead, one back


Attempts to implement a national identification program for animal trace-back have been noticed. News about the outbreak of a disease with notable impact has increased the pro and con discussion, but the lasting outcome is far from defined.

The Dickinson Research Extension Center is involved in a project that is designed to monitor cattle in transit and locate cattle during shipment. This research involves evaluating the ability to read calves going on and off a truck using low-frequency RFID (radio frequency identification) tags.


So, what did their research show?


For the optimist, the trial was 94.4 percent successful. For the practical cattle producer, only four of the six runs actually resulted in a 94.4 percent or higher success rate. In reality, only 66.7 percent of the runs actually achieved a realistic outcome, while 33.3 percent failed. One tag failed twice, requiring three reads to achieve a 100 percent read for this set of data.


ONLY 66.7% ACHIEVED A REALISTIC OUTCOME. That's horrible. The Government wants us to rely on a technology that is only effective 2/3 of the time. Sorry Charlie, that's just not going to work. How much more work and labor is this system going to entail with these kind of numbers? I don't even want to think about it. Running the cattle and reading the tags time and time again because the system doesn't work right. You start running over 500 cows with these kinds of numbers and the chances of getting a good read on them are slim to none.

This whole NAIS system needs to be scaled back a whole lot. A herd ID system with permanent metal tags would be the easiest, low tech solution that could be made to work for all. I still wouldn't like it particularly, but it would work.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heres the article on the Dickinson ND study- Be sure to read the paragraph toward the end of the page about what occurred when the tag reader broke down...I don't know about where you all live, but its a small fortune to fly anyone in to this part of Montana, from anywhere.... :roll:

http://www.beeftalk.com/bin/articles/bt298.pdf
 

Brad S

Well-known member
I'll give just a little heads up on that NDSU "analysis" paper posted by OT: ANYONE that is no craftier than that college boy needs a fat government job and should stay the hell out of ranching.


what's that word all the geeks use with info collection - REDUNDANCY. So we have some a$$clown drawing down north of $50k/year, but he can't get his head in the game long enough to use 2 or 3 readers in series. 3 readers gets 100% and if one breaks down, you still have good accuracy.
BECAUSE SOMEWHERE you can't borrow a reader from your neighbor or vet or salebarn or next truck if you put them on trucks.

When these readers go mainstream their price will be negligible and reliability will be high. WTF would college boy ever do if he had a loadcell fail on his feedtruck? Fact is there are a thousand ways to fail, but they don't matter if there is a single way to succeed. We can make ID work.
 

Jason

Well-known member
Great ideas Brad.

Anyone running 500 head through a chute in a day already has a good set up.

If it is raining that bad or the mud is that deep, chances are the trucks aren't going to be there either.

RFID is going to be a standard part of life for all things transported, not just cattle.

An old Texan I met on line used to joke about how he was using GPS on his cows and he could tell if one was being bred because the signal from the bull was the exact same spot.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Anyone running 500 head through a chute in a day already has a good set up.

Jason- You haven't been down here :lol: Most scale corrals have no chutes or headgates- just sort pens, alleyways, scale and if your lucky a scalehouse- and if you're really lucky maybe its big enough for 5-6 people to fight their way into and might even have a stove or heater :D ....The only chute systems is going on the truck- and nobodies going to do that....How many truckers will want to load and unload 10 times to find the missing animal :roll:


Brad S- I'm not sure if I know many that want to go out and rebuild their corrals so that the cattle go on or off the scale individually (preferably with plastic, so it doesn't interfer with the reader(s))--when you are shipping 1000 head in a day-94% means 60 head- 85% (which MSU was finding) means 150 head- 66% like the ND test eventually comes out to be means 330 head-- all that will have to be cut back, weighed back, and held to be headgated or roped (most these scale corrals have no chutes or headgates) and have the individual ID tag recorded manually (and thats only if you can figure out which one didn't read) elseways you will be running them back and forth all day...Make a one day job into 3- or it will cost for extra labor...

I've already heard individuals and scale associations questioning where they are going to get the money to rebuild their corrals and buy a reader- now you say they need 3 readers to make it work...Wait til I tell them that good news
 

Jason

Well-known member
I've seen plenty of scale and chute systems.

Very few feeders will scale cattle and load them immediately on a truck.

Well managed operations sort cattle before trucks arrive, even before taking bids so they know what they have to sell.

The alley to the truck is single file, the work involved to add a cut off gate for non scanners isn't a big deal. It means someone paying attention to some extra details.

As it is the trucker usually sits next to the chute and counts the animals as they load, an rfid scan would give a count, it wouldn't be a big deal to have an alarm set up with a gate closer when a failed read happens.

Technology makes thing happen that we thought were impossible a few short years ago. This is a good oportunity for an inventor to make his ideas happen.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Jason said:
I've seen plenty of scale and chute systems.

Must not have seen the ones down here..
:roll:
Very few feeders will scale cattle and load them immediately on a truck.

Most of these cattle are rounded up the day before delivery- lotted or put in a nearby pasture- shipping day the calves are sorted off the cows , while others sex in an alleyway ( usually when the buyer takes his first cutback),and then when enough are cut out- they start going on the scale in lots of 20-50 (depending on size of the scale)...Once everything is worked and weighed the buyer usually does another cutback and weighback ( for truck weights and uneven cattle)- then they are loaded......If you are working 500-1000 head this can take a very long day and many times you are loading out in the dark.......

Well managed operations sort cattle before trucks arrive, even before taking bids so they know what they have to sell.

Most of these cattle that are shipped from scale corrals were bid on and sold months before......

The alley to the truck is single file, the work involved to add a cut off gate for non scanners isn't a big deal. It means someone paying attention to some extra details.

As it is the trucker usually sits next to the chute and counts the animals as they load, an rfid scan would give a count, it wouldn't be a big deal to have an alarm set up with a gate closer when a failed read happens.

More people- more cost...Canucks must be making big money if they can afford to just add the extra cost- while so far their is no evidence of gain for the investment...
You must also have different truckers- they scream like hell down here if something goes wrong and you make them have to offload


Technology makes thing happen that we thought were impossible a few short years ago. This is a good oportunity for an inventor to make his ideas happen.

All at the expense of the cattle producer- which you up north don't have to worry about since government is helping fund your ID system--Is the Canuck government going to go out and buy each producer THREE readers :???: ...
 

Manitoba_Rancher

Well-known member
OT-

It is changing times and it is going to happen no matter if you and "joe blow rancher" like it or not. The RFID tag system will work in the US but it will take some time to get everyone used to the program.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Manitoba_Rancher said:
OT-

It is changing times and it is going to happen no matter if you and "joe blow rancher" like it or not. The RFID tag system will work in the US but it will take some time to get everyone used to the program.

Is the Canadian National motto- "When rape is inevitable, just roll over and enjoy it?" :???:
 

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
HOW MUCH AND WHO PAYS ? who was it that originated the necessity for M ID,why dont they foot the bill ?When there is a fair method of "I D ing" cattle there will be willing cattle men,until then I say hot branding,tags & good record keeping is all we need...................good luck
 

Jason

Well-known member
WAAAAAA WAAAAA WAAAAA

Poor babies, if you are shipping 500-1000 calves to feedlots the tags need to be mostly in place. The feedlot processes each calf and can catch any missed there. Worst case you might get a bill from the feedlot for tags they put in. They can fax the numbers and you can sign it and fax it back. Done deal, no new facilities for the poor rancher with only 500 calves and no facilities.

If $3 per tag is going to break you, your in far more trouble than worrying about ID.

If a few more producers actually did some ID on their cattle they might have a better idea of what they are producing. Just producing mass numbers isn't always the best plan.
 

Brad S

Well-known member
The world always comes down to doers and bitchers - The ornry Canadians have decided to be doers and it sorta forces our hand. Seriously, no ID has already cost us more than MID. Without good ID every little hickup will continue to slam the market. Remember the false rumor of hoof&mouth in Junction City, the ginormous recall that ruined Beef America ?

Funny thing about how we load pots - single file. If you are loding in a primative facility that can't maintain readers - don't trust the scales. Get a reading at the off load with a scale. Its all doers and bitchers.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Jason said:
WAAAAAA WAAAAA WAAAAA

Poor babies, if you are shipping 500-1000 calves to feedlots the tags need to be mostly in place. The feedlot processes each calf and can catch any missed there. Worst case you might get a bill from the feedlot for tags they put in. They can fax the numbers and you can sign it and fax it back. Done deal, no new facilities for the poor rancher with only 500 calves and no facilities.

If $3 per tag is going to break you, your in far more trouble than worrying about ID.

If a few more producers actually did some ID on their cattle they might have a better idea of what they are producing. Just producing mass numbers isn't always the best plan.

Jason- This shows you know little about the US-- Many of these shippings are guys that own 50-250- calves-- that run in common or go together to sell and ship calves- either coming off community pastures or grazing districts-- many times several members of the same family sell together- so we're not looking at the rich American rancher all Canucks think we are... And as I understand the NAIS proposal as now written that when implemented, nothing will be able to get a health clearance for shipping without having its tag number on the health inspection...In fact the final plan calls for that info to be computer sent by the vet right to a data base...Thats when me and my vet buddy are going to go in business together and make our fortune-- $5 head for the vet inspection- He gets $3 for furnishing the equipment and doing the health, I get $2 for staying there all day long recording the numbers....If the vet has to stay there all day and do it, it would be 5 times the amount.....

I'm not against an ID system- I just don't think USDA has looked at the practical workability of what they have proposed- and need to set back and rethink some of their proposal......
 

Manitoba_Rancher

Well-known member
HAY MAKER said:
HOW MUCH AND WHO PAYS ? who was it that originated the necessity for M ID,why dont they foot the bill ?When there is a fair method of "I D ing" cattle there will be willing cattle men,until then I say hot branding,tags & good record keeping is all we need...................good luck


And thats why the Japanese dont trust your system...they cant verify anything.. :D
 

Tam

Well-known member
And how many more failed attempts at BSE investigations do you think the consumers both domestic and foreign are going to except? While the US beef industry sits back and rethinks the workability of a National ID system and who will pay for it and who will profit from it. All While some fight tooth and nail to stop it as the US Beef is the safest in the world and the consumers don't need to know where the US beef is born and raised?????
Just get on with it so the consumers at least see some progress which may give you a fighting chance at maintaining consumer confidence. :roll:
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Tam and MR, when it comes to what is needed in Canada, your opinion might matter.

When your govt. rolls over to the packers all you have the ability to do is to ask them what they want you to do and then do it. Are cattlemen in Canada not independent?

Your MID system has not worked as well as it should have. The Japanese are not taking U.S. beef because they don't have an MID system, but because they don't trust the USDA and the USDA is playing little games with them for political and packer purposes. The U.S. wants to make them buy our beef without addressing the lowering beef safety issues and with political bs about trade war talk by local politicians just for the elections. It kind of makes you pretty cynical about the "best and the brightest" we have representing us in D.C. I think I could say the same thing about you two when you post this garbage.
 

Manitoba_Rancher

Well-known member
Econ if you "actually owned cattle" you would know that you need a packer to kill cattle. If you dont have a packer cattle don't get killed and you get no $$$$. If these packers are making millions of $$$ off of poor lil ole you why dont you go into the packing biz and make your millions. Im sick of you slithering around like a snake and jumping on whatever a Canadian producer says.
 

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