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nonothing

Well-known member
CANCUN, Mexico - President Bush said Friday the United States believes it is important to enforce laws protecting borders and told the leaders of Mexico and Canada that was crucial to keeping prosperity alive.



He also reiterated strong support for a "guest worker" program that would allow undocumented immigrants already in the United States to remain in the country to fill low-paying jobs that Americans won't take.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Another case of this administration saying its OK to break the law or ignore the law as long as its done for the good and at the wishes of the Corporate World....Just like USDA and GIPSA...... :( :mad:
 

cowboyup

Well-known member
I don't agree with allowing illegal immigrants in this country but President Bush does have a valid point. How many times have you heard "they don't pay me enough to do that". Used to be when you hired on to do a job you agreed to do it for a certain amount of money you didn't come back and say I need more money to finish, you finished because you gave your word. Something that used to count for something but don't seem to much anymore. there are too many people on welfare that won't go out and find a job because welfare pays more than the job or they are above doing work like that. Welfare was created for the right reasons to give a hand up to those who needed it in a time when there was work ethic and anybody who was on it would be embarassed to have anybody know. Now it is a lifestyle and they seem to be proud of the fact that they have found a way to make us pay for them, but they are quick to blame other people for their problems and its because of someone else that they can't find or keep a job "must be the system". I believe in hiring someone who will do the job regardless of nationality or color of skin. I want someone who shows up and is ready to go to work and happy to have the job instead of grumbling and always sure you are not paying them enough.

The other thing that these people who live completely by goverment hand outs don't seem to realize that it becomes no longer government by the people for the people but you do as we say or we won't give you the money. That is what really upsets me when the federal government starts blackmailing the states into something that the people of that state don't want.

If the people of this country want to stop illegal immigration then kick all the able bodied people off welfare and make them work for a living if there aren't any jobs available then there won't be any illegal immigrants coming across the border. This is just how I see it.
 

Cal

Well-known member
I agree with cowboyup.

Another thing, how are we realistically going to round up all, or even a substantial portion, of the illegals that are already in this country. Too much red tape and leg work required; Ain't going to happen.
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
Excellent post, Cowboy up!

But as Hurricane Katrina showed us, some of these welfare families
run generations deep. We are reaping what we sowed. I don't think
you could 'make' some of them work. They will rob and steal first.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
If and I mean IF we actually need the workers- bring them in LEGALLY...We should not be rewarding people for breaking the law by giving them amnesty or citizenship- just because they broke the law...

First off we need to secure the borders- so no more illegals walk across...

Then make all the illegals return to their country of origin to reapply for LEGAL entry right along with all the legal residents of those countries that didn't violate the law by ILLEGALLY entering the US- and then keep track of them thru mandatory reporting, make them pay taxes and let them work to be American residents or citizens....

To do anything else is a slap to the face of all the generations of good immigrant people that struggled so hard- some for years - to get into this country..... :(

This administration should not be breaking, bending, or avoiding another law just for the benefit of the Corporate world or so that the wealthy can keep cheap gardners, maids, and pool boys.......
 

Jinglebob

Well-known member
floyd said:
So. If "they don't pay me enough to do that" maybe the pay is too low?

This pretty well sums up the whole problem.

Or as Pogo said, "We have met the enemy and he is us!"

As long as we, the consumers, go to businesses and spend our money at them, that sell manufactured goods that are not made in the USofA, we are promoting the use of cheap, or illegal labor.

When the labor costs are too high here, businesses will go somewhere else to make their money and/or profit. If they can make as much or more by moving to another country, they will do it. If they can stay here and use illegal immigrants as a work force and pay them a lower wage, and not get caught, they will do it.

If you buy from any business that sells foreign made products, that is one less product that an American manufacturer can sell here. In order to be competitive, the American business has to lower it's costs, and labor is usually the one place that they can do it. So they hire illegals or the move to another country.

Supply and demand. Profit and loss.

If you can buy a Chinese made tractor and get it to do the same job as effectively as an American made one, and save 10 or 20 thousand dollars, so you can make a profit, how many will buy the higher priced tractor?

Supply and demand. Profit and loss.

You can't keep the poor and downtrodden out from the land of milk and honey, with just a few strands of barbed wire and a river, to stop them. Especially if they've got a guy over here who is willing to pay them more than they can make at home. And he will, if he can save those bucks.

Unless you make a way to make it more profitable for him to hire people from his own country. And make it so that the illegals want to stay in their own country, because they can make as good or close to as good a living as he can here.

To me, that is the only way to really stop illegal immigrants.

The American dream. A better life for you and your family. Who wouldn't want that?

JMHO
 

Cal

Well-known member
Re. China and some of our other trading partners, we're probably getting a better deal than they are as far as value added. Also consider our GDP, unemployment rate, population, average income, etc... compared to China's for instance.

http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=79108&highlight=china#79108

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ch.html

What prolonged and exagerated the Great Depression? Cutting off trade with other countries in an effort to save ourselves.
 

Frankk

Well-known member
cowboyup said:
I don't agree with allowing illegal immigrants in this country but President Bush does have a valid point. How many times have you heard "they don't pay me enough to do that". Used to be when you hired on to do a job you agreed to do it for a certain amount of money you didn't come back and say I need more money to finish, you finished because you gave your word. Something that used to count for something but don't seem to much anymore. there are too many people on welfare that won't go out and find a job because welfare pays more than the job or they are above doing work like that. Welfare was created for the right reasons to give a hand up to those who needed it in a time when there was work ethic and anybody who was on it would be embarassed to have anybody know. Now it is a lifestyle and they seem to be proud of the fact that they have found a way to make us pay for them, but they are quick to blame other people for their problems and its because of someone else that they can't find or keep a job "must be the system". I believe in hiring someone who will do the job regardless of nationality or color of skin. I want someone who shows up and is ready to go to work and happy to have the job instead of grumbling and always sure you are not paying them enough.

The other thing that these people who live completely by goverment hand outs don't seem to realize that it becomes no longer government by the people for the people but you do as we say or we won't give you the money. That is what really upsets me when the federal government starts blackmailing the states into something that the people of that state don't want.

If the people of this country want to stop illegal immigration then kick all the able bodied people off welfare and make them work for a living if there aren't any jobs available then there won't be any illegal immigrants coming across the border. This is just how I see it.

Careful Cowboy there is alot of people in agriculture drawing welfare oops subsidies.
 

Cal

Well-known member
Faster horses said:
Really, Cal? I had never known that or heard that before.

Would you mind giving us a little more information? I am very
curious. Thanks! :)
I've got a book by Thomas Sowell that goes into that, see what I can find on the web.
 

Cal

Well-known member
Cal said:
Faster horses said:
Really, Cal? I had never known that or heard that before.

Would you mind giving us a little more information? I am very
curious. Thanks! :)
I've got a book by Thomas Sowell that goes into that, see what I can find on the web.
Imports and exports showed the most severe and inexorable decline. They began to tail off before the summer of 1929. By the first quarter of 1930, they were running at about 23% below previous year levels - about half due to declining prices and half to declining volume. The passage of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff on June 17, 1930, and the retaliatory tariff increases all around the world, accelerated the decline. It would continue at multiple double digit rates well into 1933. Exports for the last half of 1932 ran 82% below those of 1929.
http://www.futurecasts.com/Depression_mythology-I.html
 

Steve

Well-known member
Is there really any "American" against securing the border ,....other the so called "represenatives" of the (American) people?


Seems to me the only group of Americans fighting against the fence and more border agents are those sitting in Washington.....

Sure we had large Latino (mexican) organized protests...and Washington seems to want to take into consideration thier views.....but if my knowledge of the US constitution serves me they are supposed to represent the US citizens, not a group of illigals,

Is thier really any Americans who want an open non-protected border?

one where any one can come in?

or would most of US want it secured and brought under control?

as for the illigals here,,if they are arrested for any reason,,send them packing.....

if they some how are not arrested and some how stay, it is at thier own risk.....(of being arrested) any amnesty is wrong, and should not be allowed by the people...
 

CattleRMe

Well-known member
Frankk said:
cowboyup said:
I don't agree with allowing illegal immigrants in this country but President Bush does have a valid point. How many times have you heard "they don't pay me enough to do that". Used to be when you hired on to do a job you agreed to do it for a certain amount of money you didn't come back and say I need more money to finish, you finished because you gave your word. Something that used to count for something but don't seem to much anymore. there are too many people on welfare that won't go out and find a job because welfare pays more than the job or they are above doing work like that. Welfare was created for the right reasons to give a hand up to those who needed it in a time when there was work ethic and anybody who was on it would be embarassed to have anybody know. Now it is a lifestyle and they seem to be proud of the fact that they have found a way to make us pay for them, but they are quick to blame other people for their problems and its because of someone else that they can't find or keep a job "must be the system". I believe in hiring someone who will do the job regardless of nationality or color of skin. I want someone who shows up and is ready to go to work and happy to have the job instead of grumbling and always sure you are not paying them enough.

The other thing that these people who live completely by goverment hand outs don't seem to realize that it becomes no longer government by the people for the people but you do as we say or we won't give you the money. That is what really upsets me when the federal government starts blackmailing the states into something that the people of that state don't want.

If the people of this country want to stop illegal immigration then kick all the able bodied people off welfare and make them work for a living if there aren't any jobs available then there won't be any illegal immigrants coming across the border. This is just how I see it.

Careful Cowboy there is alot of people in agriculture drawing welfare oops subsidies.
:clap: Very good point. When my father went to get his drought assistance check he told everyone he was going to get his welfare check. He was half embarassed to get it or that milk program, the banker said everyone else is .............. :wink:
 

ranchwife

Well-known member
CattleRMe said:
Frankk said:
cowboyup said:
I don't agree with allowing illegal immigrants in this country but President Bush does have a valid point. How many times have you heard "they don't pay me enough to do that". Used to be when you hired on to do a job you agreed to do it for a certain amount of money you didn't come back and say I need more money to finish, you finished because you gave your word. Something that used to count for something but don't seem to much anymore. there are too many people on welfare that won't go out and find a job because welfare pays more than the job or they are above doing work like that. Welfare was created for the right reasons to give a hand up to those who needed it in a time when there was work ethic and anybody who was on it would be embarassed to have anybody know. Now it is a lifestyle and they seem to be proud of the fact that they have found a way to make us pay for them, but they are quick to blame other people for their problems and its because of someone else that they can't find or keep a job "must be the system". I believe in hiring someone who will do the job regardless of nationality or color of skin. I want someone who shows up and is ready to go to work and happy to have the job instead of grumbling and always sure you are not paying them enough.

The other thing that these people who live completely by goverment hand outs don't seem to realize that it becomes no longer government by the people for the people but you do as we say or we won't give you the money. That is what really upsets me when the federal government starts blackmailing the states into something that the people of that state don't want.

If the people of this country want to stop illegal immigration then kick all the able bodied people off welfare and make them work for a living if there aren't any jobs available then there won't be any illegal immigrants coming across the border. This is just how I see it.

Careful Cowboy there is alot of people in agriculture drawing welfare oops subsidies.
:clap: Very good point. When my father went to get his drought assistance check he told everyone he was going to get his welfare check. He was half embarassed to get it or that milk program, the banker said everyone else is .............. :wink:

I do not believe that cowboyup was talking about agricultural "welfare" as much as he was talking about the type of welfare that we ALL hate to see abused such as food stamps, AFDC, Medicaid (yes, this too is overly-abused).....the hubby and i are both deathly opposed to seeing any government program abused/overused to where people become dependant on it as their sole means of support!! The abuse we speak of is the use of welfare by healthy/able-bodied folks who are simply too lazy to work and, therefore, find themselves in the welfare lines,looking for handouts!!! Just as long as they keep popping out those kids, they keep their benefits!! :roll: :roll:
When I was a child, my father was hurt at work and the company was not covered by workers comp (hard to take care of a family with a compound fracture of the right ankle)....I will never forget his face when we went to the grocery store a week later and bought a weeks worth of food with food stamps!! I thought the man was gonna cry!! So, I have been there and as long as I can and am able to work, I will!!!!!! :D
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
ranchwife, what happened to your father is what the assistance was meant for. He had no control over the accident or anything following; there is no shame in those kind of situations. Too bad he felt shamed, but I guess that is what honest, hard-working people do.

I can remember as a child, going to visit relatives in Missouri and the discussion was Social Security. Those folks didn't want it. They looked upon it as a hand out...and they were too proud for that. I honestly think some of those old-timers refused it. Far cry from today.
 

Frankk

Well-known member
It seems to me hypocritcal of us in agriculture to criticize the young white single mother of taking subsidies, while a fellow in my area who lives in a mansion and winters in some southern state, according to EWG , draws a huge amount in farm subsidies. Also FH people shouldn't be ashamed of collecting on a system they paid in on for years, some folks say we get a poor rate of return at that.
 
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