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Neil Waugh-Edmonton Sun

Mike

Well-known member
By NEIL WAUGH, SUN MEDIA




It's never a good time to have a mad cow day. Although this time around, it's a mad bull moment.

But the latest confirmation of the ninth (tenth if you include the Washington State dairy cow) BSE-infected Canadian animal couldn't have come at a worse time.

And once again the Canadian Food Inspection Agency is being less than forthcoming about all the details, especially about the age of the animal. Although it now appears the bull from a farm somewhere in Alberta was born in 2000. This means it appears to be three years younger than when the Canadian government's iron-clad ban on feeding cattle remnants back to livestock was locked in place.

R-CALF REVS ENGINES

This practice is the feared source of the brain-wasting disease that pretty well laid waste to the British cattle industry when it was detected - then covered up - across the pond.



"The finding of a mature animal should not impact Canada's BSE country categorization," insisted CFIA statement.

And the feds' animal health bureaucrats boasted that "BSE should be eliminated from the national cattle herd within approximately 10 years."

Unfortunately they may not have a decade of slack to wait for it to happen.

Because R-Calf is once again revving its engines. They are pushing hard to not only get the United States Department of Agriculture's ruling to allow Canadian cattle over 30 months across the U.S. border again blocked but to finally force a courtroom showdown overturning the earlier order that re-opened the Medicine Line to young Canadian cattle and boxed beef.

The border ban cost Canadian taxpayers over $1 billion in a dubious program that was supposed to trickle down to the small cow/calf operators, but gushered up to the large corporate feedlots and multi-national packers.

Next week reps from the Billings, Montana-based protectionist outfit will hold their "Washington Stampede."

"It's more critical than ever for our members to saddle up and contact their senators and representatives," R-Calf's Membership Alert urged. "So their voices will be heard."

And the latest Alberta BSE confirmation just put more ammo in R-Calf CEO Bill Bullard's gun.

"Each successive case has reinforced their original argument," Bullard spat. "That we didn't know the true magnitude of the problem back in 2005."

Bullard confirmed that next week's three key lobbying points will be "Canadian BSE, trade issues and country of origin labelling."

And the R-Calf "talking points" document tells the Washington Stampeders to stress that any further relaxation of the border rules will "further harm the United States' ability to fully restore lost exports."

Financial losses to the U.S. cattle industry "will be severe."

Even before the R-Calfers ride into Power Town, their cause has picked up some major momentum.

Four days ago a quartet of powerhouse cattle country senators wrote a letter to USDA secretary Mike Johanns warning that opening the border to more Canadian cattle will have "serious repercussions."

And urged him to "withdraw the proposal" which is going through the American legislative processes' politically sensitive "comment period."

CATTLE PRICES DROPPED

"American ranchers, who have already experienced a severe summer drought, punishing winter snowstorms and rising feed prices," said senators Byron Dorgan, Jeff Bingaman, Mike Enzi and John Thune, adding they shouldn't have to endure another drop in cattle prices.

Johanns points out that U.S. cattle prices "dropped three times" after the 2005 border-opening ruling.

The senators insisted that "at the very least" Johanns should delay his ruling until mandatory country of origin labelling can be put in place.

And the White House might showing signs of cracking. Because while Johanns claimed he "would not expect" the new BSE bull will impact "our trade with Canada", he did reveal that comment period "allows for consideration of additional information."

Bullard revealed he will build it into R-Calf's submission.

Meanwhile, the final briefs will be before the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeal by March 12 as R-Calf ramps up its court challenge of Johanns' 2005 border opening order.

It's a mad, mad, mad, mad-cow world.
 

Mrs.Greg

Well-known member
I chose not to read the Sun,because I feel its too tabloidy.Personally I feel that theres info. thats NOBODYS business and that would be the name of the person and homeplace this animal was found on...period.
 

Kathy

Well-known member
While I'd like to agree with you about the identity thing, I can't.

Without knowledge of where the animals were born and raised, there is no way for an true environmental assessment. By not telling the location of the animal, and birth location, any possible connection to an environmental contamination, man-made or otherwise, is also hidden. Do you believe CFIA would tell us about it if they found one?

We can only hope that some day CFIA officals will get their spines back and start thinking for themselves, instead of relying on false information from those who want to profit off the TSE industry, or profit from hiding the contamination causing it.

The ranchers that have these animals found on their place, need to get a private assessments of the soil, air, feed and water - as well, there should be full workups on the mineral status of these positive animals, including metal analysis of the brain tissue, kidney tissue, and bone.

I am still concerned that the trace minerals sold routinely in AB contain high levels of manganese. One researcher told me this is likely to combat dioxins. There is no identified manganese deficiency in feeds in Western Canada. WISSA - Western Interprovincial Scientific Studies Association's study on 30,000 head of cattle in BC, AB, Sask found that of 501 feed samples taken, 94% were deficient in Zinc, 93% in Copper, 64% in phosphorous and 60% in selenium, based on the nutritional requirements of a beef lactating cow.

I know we had a bull go down hill fast last spring on grass. He was tested and they said it was negative for BSE. We tested his mineral status and found he was on the low side for copper and selenium. Some animals don't consume enough of the trace mineral salt to get adequate amounts. Someone who raised goats told me they used to be able to buy a bolus that slow released copper and zinc (from the UK), but after the BSE hit here in Canada in 2003 the CFIA stopped allowing imports of this product.

It would probably be a good idea to give animals a slow-release bolus with zinc, copper and selenium. If you know of any such product, let me know, please.
 

Mrs.Greg

Well-known member
Kathy....I didn't say the right people shouldn't know the identity,I believe they should, I just DO NOT think Joe Public needs this information,hence keeping the media blitz out of it is the perfect senario.
 

Kathy

Well-known member
Who are the "right people"?

The CFIA.

There are people in the group you call "Joe Public" who could be of help to ranchers unfortunate enough to have this disorder found in their herd.

If the rancher's name is kept quiet, does that mean the CFIA gave the rancher the option to keep his name secret?

I feel that the cattle industry is lossing out, big-time, on the opportunity to work with others in finding the cause of BSE. We are trusting the government officials to do right by us, when in fact, they may not be doing what is best for US.

IF contamination of the environment by an industrial activity turns out to be a factor in the cause of this disorder, how will we ever know, without help from those that would seek the truth, and then help to prevent the contamination from every happening again to someone else.

CFIA is not protecting our cattle industry from this disorder happening; they are protecting the image of the cattle industry by refusing to openly discuss research about the prion and copper, metal homeostasis and deficiencies.

Meanwhile, how many ranchers keep allowing the oil patch to dump barium loaded drilling mud on their pastures. This could be a causal factor; where is the research to show the barium mud is not harming our livestock and wildlife?

Secrecy is not helping our industry. The ranchers affected by this could help to reveal evidence about the falsehoods surrounding BSE. Sometimes when you can't prove a less known theory, all you need to do is show the present data doesn't support the commonly held one.

Ranchers can use all the help we can get now. We shouldn't be so darn secretive.
 

Mrs.Greg

Well-known member
Well apparently Kathy,you didn't watch the couple on TV. that raised the second confirmed BSE animal,they were an older couple that were TOTALLY broken apart from this,NIETHER one of them could hardly contain thier grief...if you believe its so important for you to know the identity of the place these are coming from,IMHO then I think theres something wrong with you :!: Its none of my business or yours as far as I'm concerned.Apparently you aren't in line as being one of the "right" people because it sure seems to be a piece of gossip you want access to. :?
 

Kathy

Well-known member
How many postings on here have you made Mrs. Greg? It seems gossip is your cup of tea, not mine.

God help us all, when the assistance of a fellow man is unwanted and thrown aside like trash.

Trust that the government will care for you. I'm sure you'll get just what you deserve. Remember Katrina.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Mrs.Greg said:
Well apparently Kathy,you didn't watch the couple on TV. that raised the second confirmed BSE animal,they were an older couple that were TOTALLY broken apart from this,NIETHER one of them could hardly contain thier grief...if you believe its so important for you to know the identity of the place these are coming from,IMHO then I think theres something wrong with you :!: Its none of my business or yours as far as I'm concerned.Apparently you aren't in line as being one of the "right" people because it sure seems to be a piece of gossip you want access to. :?

In ways I agree Mrs. Greg--but in matters that affect the entire nation-- in the democracy's we both live in-- I think it is important to be open and transparent...Closed door operations and clouding info in shrouds of secrecy only amplify the questions and hurt agencies credibility....
I do believe violators-- POST feedban cattle owners and mill operators/Companies names that violate feedbans should be released- along with info on where all the banned feed could have went.....

You must be the only Canadian that believes your way Mrs. Greg-- because in all the threads about the Canadian cattle found in SD and the VanDykes-- all the Canucks were/are demanding the past purchasing history of the VanDykes, the sales ring and everyone that has sold a cow at that ring for the past 10 years..... :roll: :wink: :lol:

Tam even wants to know the color of VanDykes shorts- but thats not unordinary with her little problems :wink: :lol: :lol:
 

S.S.A.P.

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
I do believe violators-- POST feedban cattle owners and mill operators/Companies names that violate feedbans should be released- along with info on where all the banned feed could have went.....

Flounder has given us a glimpse of what amounts to thousands of tons of feedban violations in the United States.

You and your country can go first - release every US producer's name to the media that purchased a portion of that feed.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
S.S.A.P. said:
Oldtimer said:
I do believe violators-- POST feedban cattle owners and mill operators/Companies names that violate feedbans should be released- along with info on where all the banned feed could have went.....

Flounder has given us a glimpse of what amounts to thousands of tons of feedban violations in the United States.

You and your country can go first - release every US producer's name to the media that purchased a portion of that feed.

I think they should-- If USDA/FDA won't do anything legally to them but slap their hands, then let the buying public penalize them....But so should the Canadians-- the Canadian guy/business that shipped tainted feed all over the country to make CFIA release the statement "that they believed they would find more BSE cattle in all the western provinces" name should have been all over the headlines-- then it would be up to you to decide if you want to do business with folks that cut corners and are sloppy in their attempts to make an extra buck.....
 

S.S.A.P.

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
S.S.A.P. said:
Oldtimer said:
I do believe violators-- POST feedban cattle owners and mill operators/Companies names that violate feedbans should be released- along with info on where all the banned feed could have went.....

Flounder has given us a glimpse of what amounts to thousands of tons of feedban violations in the United States.

You and your country can go first - release every US producer's name to the media that purchased a portion of that feed.

I think they should-- If USDA/FDA won't do anything legally to them but slap their hands, then let the buying public penalize them....But so should the Canadians-- the Canadian guy/business that shipped tainted feed all over the country to make CFIA release the statement "that they believed they would find more BSE cattle in all the western provinces" name should have been all over the headlines-- then it would be up to you to decide if you want to do business with folks that cut corners and are sloppy in their attempts to make an extra buck.....

So now your saying that all the US cattle owners that purchased that US tainted feed are "folks that cut corners and are sloppy in their attempts to make an extra buck."? You are willing to expose innocent people, by releasing their name to the media, to "let the buying public penalize them" ...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
S.S.A.P. said:
Oldtimer said:
S.S.A.P. said:
Flounder has given us a glimpse of what amounts to thousands of tons of feedban violations in the United States.

You and your country can go first - release every US producer's name to the media that purchased a portion of that feed.

I think they should-- If USDA/FDA won't do anything legally to them but slap their hands, then let the buying public penalize them....But so should the Canadians-- the Canadian guy/business that shipped tainted feed all over the country to make CFIA release the statement "that they believed they would find more BSE cattle in all the western provinces" name should have been all over the headlines-- then it would be up to you to decide if you want to do business with folks that cut corners and are sloppy in their attempts to make an extra buck.....

So now your saying that all the US cattle owners that purchased that US tainted feed are "folks that cut corners and are sloppy in their attempts to make an extra buck."? You are willing to expose innocent people, by releasing their name to the media, to "let the buying public penalize them" ...

I misread your "all producers"---No I don't believe that producers who are not informed should be penalized--But The feed companies that produce it should be named-- and if a producer continues to buy feed from a known violator and ends up with a positive cow- then their names should be released.....Only way you can stop or hurt some of these greedy companies is in the pocket book...They might not be so opposed to closing the feedban loopholes then.......

And it appears to me some feed companies in Alberta are either awful sloppy or awful greedy.....
 

mwj

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Mrs.Greg said:
Well apparently Kathy,you didn't watch the couple on TV. that raised the second confirmed BSE animal,they were an older couple that were TOTALLY broken apart from this,NIETHER one of them could hardly contain thier grief...if you believe its so important for you to know the identity of the place these are coming from,IMHO then I think theres something wrong with you :!: Its none of my business or yours as far as I'm concerned.Apparently you aren't in line as being one of the "right" people because it sure seems to be a piece of gossip you want access to. :?

In ways I agree Mrs. Greg--but in matters that affect the entire nation-- in the democracy's we both live in-- I think it is important to be open and transparent...Closed door operations and clouding info in shrouds of secrecy only amplify the questions and hurt agencies credibility....
I do believe violators-- POST feedban cattle owners and mill operators/Companies names that violate feedbans should be released- along with info on where all the banned feed could have went.....

You must be the only Canadian that believes your way Mrs. Greg-- because in all the threads about the Canadian cattle found in SD and the VanDykes-- all the Canucks were/are demanding the past purchasing history of the VanDykes, the sales ring and everyone that has sold a cow at that ring for the past 10 years..... :roll: :wink: :lol:

Tam even wants to know the color of VanDykes shorts- but thats not unordinary with her little problems :wink: :lol: :lol:

OT you better get those glasses fixed or you are going to have a wreck :wink: I guess your glasses must have been defective when Van Dyke made his first post and said he was here to answer questions and to ''fire away''. Maybe you could get someone to read the posts to you so you don't get confused as to what they are about. By the way did the free flow of info. get around town about that butcher felow that was passing off the tainted meat to the public? With that free flow of info your talking about your local folks could have made an informed decision :roll:
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
mwj said:
Oldtimer said:
Mrs.Greg said:
Well apparently Kathy,you didn't watch the couple on TV. that raised the second confirmed BSE animal,they were an older couple that were TOTALLY broken apart from this,NIETHER one of them could hardly contain thier grief...if you believe its so important for you to know the identity of the place these are coming from,IMHO then I think theres something wrong with you :!: Its none of my business or yours as far as I'm concerned.Apparently you aren't in line as being one of the "right" people because it sure seems to be a piece of gossip you want access to. :?

In ways I agree Mrs. Greg--but in matters that affect the entire nation-- in the democracy's we both live in-- I think it is important to be open and transparent...Closed door operations and clouding info in shrouds of secrecy only amplify the questions and hurt agencies credibility....
I do believe violators-- POST feedban cattle owners and mill operators/Companies names that violate feedbans should be released- along with info on where all the banned feed could have went.....

You must be the only Canadian that believes your way Mrs. Greg-- because in all the threads about the Canadian cattle found in SD and the VanDykes-- all the Canucks were/are demanding the past purchasing history of the VanDykes, the sales ring and everyone that has sold a cow at that ring for the past 10 years..... :roll: :wink: :lol:

Tam even wants to know the color of VanDykes shorts- but thats not unordinary with her little problems :wink: :lol: :lol:

OT you better get those glasses fixed or you are going to have a wreck :wink: I guess your glasses must have been defective when Van Dyke made his first post and said he was here to answer questions and to ''fire away''. Maybe you could get someone to read the posts to you so you don't get confused as to what they are about. By the way did the free flow of info. get around town about that butcher felow that was passing off the tainted meat to the public? With that free flow of info your talking about your local folks could have made an informed decision :roll:




Go easy mwj on the Odd boy, he still has sand in his eyes from rollicking on the nude beach in France with Haymaker
 

S.S.A.P.

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
I misread your "all producers"---No I don't believe that producers who are not informed should be penalized--

"My" "all producers" ???????????

NOT "my" Oldtimer ... YOU WERE THE ONE THAT POSTED
Oldtimer said:
I do believe violators-- POST feedban cattle owners and mill operators/Companies names that violate feedbans should be released- along with info on where all the banned feed could have went.....
 

Econ101

Well-known member
mwj said:
Oldtimer said:
Mrs.Greg said:
Well apparently Kathy,you didn't watch the couple on TV. that raised the second confirmed BSE animal,they were an older couple that were TOTALLY broken apart from this,NIETHER one of them could hardly contain thier grief...if you believe its so important for you to know the identity of the place these are coming from,IMHO then I think theres something wrong with you :!: Its none of my business or yours as far as I'm concerned.Apparently you aren't in line as being one of the "right" people because it sure seems to be a piece of gossip you want access to. :?

In ways I agree Mrs. Greg--but in matters that affect the entire nation-- in the democracy's we both live in-- I think it is important to be open and transparent...Closed door operations and clouding info in shrouds of secrecy only amplify the questions and hurt agencies credibility....
I do believe violators-- POST feedban cattle owners and mill operators/Companies names that violate feedbans should be released- along with info on where all the banned feed could have went.....

You must be the only Canadian that believes your way Mrs. Greg-- because in all the threads about the Canadian cattle found in SD and the VanDykes-- all the Canucks were/are demanding the past purchasing history of the VanDykes, the sales ring and everyone that has sold a cow at that ring for the past 10 years..... :roll: :wink: :lol:

Tam even wants to know the color of VanDykes shorts- but thats not unordinary with her little problems :wink: :lol: :lol:

OT you better get those glasses fixed or you are going to have a wreck :wink: I guess your glasses must have been defective when Van Dyke made his first post and said he was here to answer questions and to ''fire away''. Maybe you could get someone to read the posts to you so you don't get confused as to what they are about. By the way did the free flow of info. get around town about that butcher felow that was passing off the tainted meat to the public? With that free flow of info your talking about your local folks could have made an informed decision :roll:

mwj, you still haven't identified your cattle as you asked of Van Dyke.

We are waiting.
 

Mrs.Greg

Well-known member
Kathy said:
How many postings on here have you made Mrs. Greg? It seems gossip is your cup of tea, not mine.

God help us all, when the assistance of a fellow man is unwanted and thrown aside like trash.

Trust that the government will care for you. I'm sure you'll get just what you deserve. Remember Katrina.
Touched a nerve huh Kathy? Sorry but I'm not changing my mind on this...I believe the people who deal with the BSE cases are the ones who need access, not the public,people have a right to thier privacy,plain and simple.


Now on the other hand if they come onto a public forum and say "fire away" they give up thier right to privacy.

I also feel the media often blows things way out of proportion and embelish stories.

Maybe what I feel isn't popular with you but I really feel strongly,very strongly about privacy.

BTW Kathy my career and life is based on confidentiality,not gossip.
 

mwj

Well-known member
Econ101 said:
mwj said:
Oldtimer said:
In ways I agree Mrs. Greg--but in matters that affect the entire nation-- in the democracy's we both live in-- I think it is important to be open and transparent...Closed door operations and clouding info in shrouds of secrecy only amplify the questions and hurt agencies credibility....
I do believe violators-- POST feedban cattle owners and mill operators/Companies names that violate feedbans should be released- along with info on where all the banned feed could have went.....

You must be the only Canadian that believes your way Mrs. Greg-- because in all the threads about the Canadian cattle found in SD and the VanDykes-- all the Canucks were/are demanding the past purchasing history of the VanDykes, the sales ring and everyone that has sold a cow at that ring for the past 10 years..... :roll: :wink: :lol:

Tam even wants to know the color of VanDykes shorts- but thats not unordinary with her little problems :wink: :lol: :lol:

OT you better get those glasses fixed or you are going to have a wreck :wink: I guess your glasses must have been defective when Van Dyke made his first post and said he was here to answer questions and to ''fire away''. Maybe you could get someone to read the posts to you so you don't get confused as to what they are about. By the way did the free flow of info. get around town about that butcher felow that was passing off the tainted meat to the public? With that free flow of info your talking about your local folks could have made an informed decision :roll:

mwj, you still haven't identified your cattle as you asked of Van Dyke.

We are waiting.

You using OT glasses. If I come to clear things up and say I have pictorial proof like Van Dyke did you bet I will post them . Next qustion if you have one and we will see what the answer is :wink: OT has said Jersey and I think Sandhusker mentioned 2 Holstiens and a sheep but those could be the ones he has visitation with at his cousins so you may want to check with him on that 8)
 

Econ101

Well-known member
mwj said:
Econ101 said:
mwj said:
OT you better get those glasses fixed or you are going to have a wreck :wink: I guess your glasses must have been defective when Van Dyke made his first post and said he was here to answer questions and to ''fire away''. Maybe you could get someone to read the posts to you so you don't get confused as to what they are about. By the way did the free flow of info. get around town about that butcher felow that was passing off the tainted meat to the public? With that free flow of info your talking about your local folks could have made an informed decision :roll:

mwj, you still haven't identified your cattle as you asked of Van Dyke.

We are waiting.

You using OT glasses. If I come to clear things up and say I have pictorial proof like Van Dyke did you bet I will post them . Next qustion if you have one and we will see what the answer is :wink: OT has said Jersey and I think Sandhusker mentioned 2 Holstiens and a sheep but those could be the ones he has visitation with at his cousins so you may want to check with him on that 8)

It would be nice if we got an answer to the first question before I give you another. It is the question you were asking of Van Dyke.

How would you describe your cattle on a sales barn slip that would differentiate your cattle from everyone else's?
 

mwj

Well-known member
Econ101 said:
mwj said:
Econ101 said:
mwj, you still haven't identified your cattle as you asked of Van Dyke.

We are waiting.

You using OT glasses. If I come to clear things up and say I have pictorial proof like Van Dyke did you bet I will post them . Next qustion if you have one and we will see what the answer is :wink: OT has said Jersey and I think Sandhusker mentioned 2 Holstiens and a sheep but those could be the ones he has visitation with at his cousins so you may want to check with him on that 8)

It would be nice if we got an answer to the first question before I give you another. It is the question you were asking of Van Dyke.

How would you describe your cattle on a sales barn slip that would differentiate your cattle from everyone else's?

I guess I was wrong it is a hearing aide you need because you don't seem to hear what people say. Bring me the thread that I started that said that I would prove id on my cattle and I will be glad to oblige you :D Is there anything else I can do to help you out today. By the way if you read his first post he said ''no description'' later he posted and said ''brief description'' now does that mean he posted an untruth :roll:
 
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